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Gnosis - Will it make all present day religions redundant?
July 2, 2006
4:29 am
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bevdee
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Free!

I have been thinking about this whole thing, tonight, and I have come up with this. The christians, and I am not saying all of them, but there are many, that recite the scripture, and mouth platitudes mindlessly. Without thought.

The lord works in mysterious ways, it is not for us to know the mind of god, it is not for us to question god's will!! etc etc etc

There is also the manipulative way they use their threats of hell and eternal damnation if you don't believe in that WAY of thinking.

And the way they try to insinuate themselves into every conversation.

I don't trust them.

Bevdee

July 2, 2006
4:48 am
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bevdee
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Twinks,

Thank you for finding the scripture to back me up.

Now why are they in our government? When it is unconstitutional?

Bevdee

July 2, 2006
5:18 am
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free2choose
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Bevdee.

I misread your first post.

I thought you were defending the Christians and saying that they should not have to prove thier beliefs.

I am sorry I got rough with you.

My bad, friend!

Free

July 2, 2006
5:44 am
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guest_guest
2-Jul-06

You said:

"Tez, also as usual, there must be some stuff going over my head which you and Pr. Tart wrote but what I did read, for that I'd like evidence (e.g. for mind-indepedendent conciousness. I know I'm not gonna get it, or else everyone would be talking about that conciousness).

I probably disappoint you every now and then in my refusal to exert my brain on the high level stuff."

Yes I agree that you are consistent in your behavior. But that is your prerogative. You either didn't read any of his relevant papers on the Url I gave you or you didn't understand anything in them.

And you said:

"Well unless there was a scientific study etc which proves this, I cant believe it. "

There are several reports of research done by him - you obviously haven't read any of his research. It is your choice and your right to remain in ignorance of Tart's scientific research, just as it is my right not to bother to respond to your comments because of this chosen ignorance.

July 2, 2006
5:49 am
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bevdee
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Hey Free?

I didn't realise you were rough!!! I thought you were agrreing with me!!

That's pretty funny, we both misread it!!

Bevdee

July 2, 2006
10:44 am
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Anonymous
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twinks,

{I notice several people wondering why christian believers seem incapable of questioning their faith in any way.}

I questioned the tenets of Christianity for years before becoming a Christian, and afterwards for a period of time. I read, I asked questions, I prayed, and ultimately, after I struggled with it, God showed me that the basic tenets of Christianity are true. What I claim to "know" has been revealed directly to me by God. Everything else is strictly my own opinion.

{""1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. ...""" }

John wrote this to people who were already Christians, to whom God had already witnessed that it was true.

WHILE

{""John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."""}

Christ said this to Pharisees, who, being the spiritual guides over the Jews and guardians of the Torah, should have known better and should have recognized him for who he was.

These two scriptures were given to different audiences and cannot be cross-compared.

{For if you believe, even a little bit, then it follows that you also must believe in the devil, satan etc. But if you question, then you may BE satan.}

God wants us to question. He doesn't want any of us to continue in blind faith, IMO, but wants us all to know for ourselves what is true.

Seeker

July 2, 2006
10:47 am
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Anonymous
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bevdee,

{Now why are they in our government? When it is unconstitutional?}

The US Constitution says that no religious test shall be given for public office. +-That's why it's constitutional.

Seeker

July 2, 2006
11:04 am
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on my way
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"There are several reports of research done by him - you obviously haven't read any of his research. It is your choice and your right to remain in ignorance of Tart's scientific research, just as it is my right not to bother to respond to your comments because of this chosen ignorance"

Twez, this could have just as been nicely put as, "free will". Do you have a purpose in demeaning guest first?

Guest not taking up for you, i know you are capable of that all by yourself, but if one believes another's opinion over his own...it takes longer to crawl out of the muck. No one should inflict that over another. WORDS are powerful, they build or tear down. =)

July 2, 2006
11:55 am
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on my way
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free...
i don't beleive there is a mean bone in your body to be found, however i must explain something to you and everyone else on this thread and any other 'religious' threads.

My belief system is ME. How I think is ME. What i write is ME. Who God is to me, is ME. SO when someone attacks my belief system, which is a way of life for me, inseparable from who i am...it attacks ME. And it isn't that i mind being attacked...it is the absolutes that are projected here. It always comes down to an 'either/or' attack situation. Maybe you or others do not realize how personal my or other's belief system is...you attack me, you attack the God I believe in, and I will not stand for that anywhere in my life. I have been kind, but I am almost to a point of letting go of all reason. Only I know that this would be misconstrued in a miserable fashion. The ME in me wants to blast...the Holy Spirit in me keeps me from doing that.

Shall we all agree to disagree. I do not comment on anyone's beliefs anymore, no matter what they are or if I agree or not, as that is not right, and i am no better than anyone else here, that is for certain.

If someone has questions about "afterlife" or "heaven" then ask about that, it isn't necessary to challenge the person....AND there is a difference.

Upon this I rest,

omw

July 2, 2006
12:09 pm
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on my way
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(((Twinks))) hugs back to you.

July 2, 2006
3:37 pm
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Anonymous
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twinks,

The Christian faith doesn't need apologetics, but it helps individuals to be able to reason from the scriptures. Not in any contentious way, but in a calm way, knowing that nothing can be proved by reasoning from the scriptures.

July 2, 2006
7:01 pm
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Hi Tez

thats ok, an you remember a name of a few articles From Prof. Tart where actual research was done and presented? Where actual people were involved and evidence was recorded.

July 2, 2006
7:01 pm
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oops typo: "can you remember"

July 2, 2006
7:02 pm
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on my way
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seek,
i like that..."Nothing can be proved by reasoning with the scriptures"...seems very true to me now that i think abut it.

July 2, 2006
8:13 pm
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free2choose
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"What irks me is people who purport to know what is 'right' and what is 'wrong', and that those of us who do not agree are damned for all eternity. I know you do not subscribe to this way of thinking!"

EXACTLY

YES, that is exactly what I am trying to say. And I get this WAY WAY to often from "Christian" people trying to "save" my soul by insisting that I am wrong, sinful, and ignorant. I wish they would just leave me to my own soul and give me my gosh damn RIGHTS.

Free

July 2, 2006
8:23 pm
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I'm just gonna say the simple truth and relieve us free thinkers:

Jesus was not a prophet. Christianity is a hoax! Like all the other religions.

Now thats the polar equivalent of "Be saved by Jesus" so yay for free speech.. yes.

July 2, 2006
8:50 pm
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on my way
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I think in answer to the original question:
Yes, I think that gnosis will make all present day religions redundant....in the minds of those who choose to do so. It's a choice, always a choice.

July 3, 2006
1:54 am
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guest_guest
On the 2-Jul-06 you asked:

"can you remember a name of a few articles From Prof. Tart where actual research was done and presented?"

Start with just two of his many of his research oriented papers:

http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ct......cfm?id=48

http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ct......cfm?id=36

and , hopefully, you will spot many pointers to the scientific research that you desire - at least in the references, if no where else.

PSI has been under the spotlight of academia for many decades and is slowly consolidating itself - research into the nature of consciousness itself being the most exciting for me. PSI was a whole subject in my psychology degree course at uni.

July 3, 2006
2:07 am
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On my way
2-Jul-06

"Twez, this could have just as been nicely put as, "free will"."

You want me to do your "will" instead of choosing my own words to write what I want to say my own way?

And you said:

"Do you have a purpose in demeaning guest first?"

So are you sitting righteously in judgement on my intentions ?

Is your ability to see into my mind some Christian god-given mental telepathic powers that you possess or is it perhaps just projections from within your psyche affecting your judgement? I wonder.

Read your own book:

"Judge not lest ye be judged."

July 3, 2006
4:24 am
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Guest_guest.

Here is part of the abstract from another scientifically based finding by a highly reputable US academic confirming that extensive PSI research has statistical significance.

---------------------------------
"AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR P SYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Professor Jessica Utts
Division of Statistics
University of California, Davis

ABSTRACT

Research on psychic functioning, conducted over a two decade period, is examined to determine whether or not the phenomenon has been scientifically established. ... ...

... ...
Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established.

... ... ...

There is little benefit to continuing experiments designed to offer proof, since there is little more to be offered to anyone who does not accept the current collection of data."

--------------------------------

URL For complete Article:

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/%7Eut...../air2.html

July 4, 2006
12:34 am
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interesting. Too bothered to find the real data. oh well. Might look at it later but actually no interested, unless it was presented real short. You got a lot to talk about, I think you'd do well if you were also talking on other forums where you got back and forth from other like minded folks instead of "bleah" reactions like mine.

July 4, 2006
12:48 am
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The above extract you posted does nothing. I'd rather see real data and conclude for myself.

July 4, 2006
1:02 am
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But yea its interesting that this is from an EDU website, and a real professor, so does seem to have a voice.

July 4, 2006
1:50 am
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guest_guest
4-Jul-06

"The above extract you posted does nothing. I'd rather see real data and conclude for myself. "

I can excuse you because of God having smitten your visual cortex.

But if you look very cl;osely with a magnifying glass you might see the URL that I enclosed in my post when I said:

"URL For complete Article:

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/%7Eut...../air2.html

"
There you'll find extensive "real data", as you call it, listed in several tables.

What more do you want?

Me to post the data tables here? Hmmmm!

Hardly appropriate.

Don't be lazy - go look, if that's what you really want. Otherwise just keep moochin', hopin' life's gonna deal yuh a good hand.

July 4, 2006
11:08 am
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on my way,

{seek, i like that..."Nothing can be proved by reasoning with the scriptures"...seems very true to me now that i think abut it. }

Thank you. It took me a long, long time to come to this conclusion myself. I spent many years trying to prove by reason, debate, and all-too-often bashing what I believe the scriptures say.

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