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Female Orgasm
October 28, 2003
5:46 pm
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Bridgh.

I think that some women regard their vaginas as dirty and smelly. But as a guy who has kicked around a lot, I can assure you that most if not all men spent the first 9 months of their life trying to get out of it and the rest of their life trying to get back in.

What about the vagina that is considered smelly to some women is perfume to most heterosexual men, moi included. Again, to most if not all heterosexual men, the taste is just as stimulating. Dining at the 'Y' is just another common sexual practice.

As for morality, well ... ... most of the psalm singing, whited sepulchres, who would have you eternally dammed just for being 'you', are often times found out abusing innocent little boys and girls who have been placed in their trust.

When it comes to adult, consenting sex, who has earnt the right to morally dictate to others who does what to whom?

October 28, 2003
9:03 pm
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arwen
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Think about all the crude jokes pertaining to how women's bodies smell! Then there's Massingil, FDS, powder this, and "feminine cleansing cloth" that! I love the smell of my lover's body, male or female. Everyone has a completely different scent, and I don't just mean between the legs. I love having great sex with someone and then swiping their shirt to wear to work the next day, or doing something "fun" for lunch and every once in a while, catching the scent of them on my body after I go back to work. I love the smell of a clean sweat, when someone just showered and then went out and got a bit of exercise. I gotta stop this now or I'm gonna lose it!

Arwen

October 31, 2003
11:06 am
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Anonymous
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Tez,

LOVED your post !! I love the way you wrote it.

...and to think that once I used to think you were a woman 🙂

November 1, 2003
5:30 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Tez. I gotta say, your post was great. Thanks for sharing....

November 1, 2003
11:16 pm
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safetynet
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My favorite sexual organ is the one that resides between my ears.

As for woman, well, I just believe that they are the most beautiful creatures ever created. I am crazy about them. (I know, they have faults, so do I). Ok. So what?

I firmly believe that my attitude defines how I will be treated and what a woman is willing to share with me. If a woman has my attention, I will do almost anything . LOL- except be a sucker.

November 2, 2003
8:32 am
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Anonymous
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Tez,

Tell us one more story...!

November 2, 2003
5:05 pm
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Mafi.

Do you mean a story about my journey tippy toeing through the minefield of sexual vulnerability? About early on in romantic cavorts, when not knowing what is one woman's meat and another's poison?

One interesting experience, I had in London. I was in London in the middle of winter. Straight of the aircraft from OZ, no walm clothes, the only friend that I had was my wallet in my hip pocket.

Desperately lonely, I sought the comfort of a 'massage parlour' wherein I had a beautiful hot sauna, a great massage, and then with the 'massuesse' had a delightful 'horizontal mambo'.

Back at my Tavistock Hotel, I had another hot bath to thor out from the trip from the massage parlour to my Hotel. Amazingly, I found myself 'flogging the log'. I went to bed and still felt a terrible sexual craving. This staggered me. I had just had great sex, come to my hotel room, wanked and still wanted more. So I began doing some hard reflection - no pun intended. My body certainly didn't and couldn't want more sex. What was this sexual craving about? So I imagined what I wanted. I wanted a naked woman's body against mine. But why? I certainly didn't need another session of lovemaking. Then I had flash memory recall similar to those repressed memory recalls. I was trying to recapture that intimate, warm, loving, totally secure feeling that I had once experienced as a baby on my mother's breast.Was all this about insecurity and fear? I recalled reading about Jewish men in a Nazi concentration camp, who were being subjected to medical experiments concerning how much cold a human being could withstand before dying. These men would be 'thawed out' by naked Jewish women prisoners and then the freezing process repeated at a lower temperature until the men finally died. The thorough German note taking showed that almost invariably the men attempted sexual intercourse with the naked women pressed hard against them upon regaining consciousness. At the time of reading this, I thought that sex would be the last thing on a man's mind when so close to death. Much later, in the London hotel, recalling this true story, I realized that I, like these concentration camp victims, was desiring sex for the same self-preservation reasons, not for procreation or simply hedonistic pleasure.

Many years later, in a terrible state of suffering over a breaking up of the one and only totally co-dependent relationship that I have ever had, I had another equally important realization that extended the London experience. I was lying in my bed visualizing what the ecstacy was about when I had been engaged in sex and totally coupled to my 'soul mate'. It was then that I saw that she was my doorway to the universe. I was no longer constrained to being 'me' but was at one with all. How could this be? After many futile sessions in pyschotherapy with different therapists, reading many books, doing a psych major at Uni. and many, many hours of meditation, reflection, contemplation, you name it, I finally came the full circle and realized that my 'soul mate' was the best fit match for the psychological, physiological and emotional 'template' that I carried about in my head; a template that was formed all those years ago when totally at one with my mother - the source of all things for me. This mother 'template' was a left-over, a tenuous and dangerous legacy, the basis for re-experiencing the ecstacy of reunification experienced after much real or imagined rejection so long ago. This push-pull game, this double-sided coin, when re-enacted with my 'soul mate', was nothing more than my emotional self seeking the regaining of the ecstacy of an infant's paradise lost.

I saw that drugs, sex and anything else, when used as a substitute for the ecstacy of 'real enlightenment', was bound to fail and lead to misery. I realized that much of men's preoccupation with sex, far from being testosterone based, was fear based. I suspect that women, being much more intimacy inclined, suffer far less than men from the separation from mom brought about by individuation and other circumstances in childhood.

I further suspect that the mystic, that the vagina holds for men, is very deeply tied to these childhood experiences. Perhaps the 'birthing canal' is an archetype planted deep in our psyche and representative of the tunnel joining our tiny world contained in our head to the universe and dimensions beyond. Perhaps this is why men spend the rest of their lives trying to get 'back in'.

Is this a good enough story, Mafi?

November 2, 2003
5:22 pm
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hmmmmm Tez.. really good story yes. men crave for sex because the men who didnt crave for sex, died out. Evolution makes us want sex and think of vaginas and sex all the time.

>> I wanted a naked woman's body against mine. But why? I certainly didn't need another session of lovemaking. << which man doesnt want a women's naked body pressed against you? i think you had sex with the hooker .. and you wanted sex with love.. maybe you wanted her to be yours always. Craving for women so much is like little Charley from "Willy Wonka's chocolate factory" craving for Chocolate all the time. He would preserve the wrapper, keep looking at it. The craving is there because he couldnt get chocolate as much as he wanted it.. and you couldnt get sex at that time as much as you wanted it.. maybe the war, you wanted love and all. basically what i mean is, the craving for men is natural .. you were far from home. good story.. you write great as usual.. *cool*. I had a uncle.. i visited his house a few times and later on he died.. his death was the first I truelly regretted and was sad about. I still dont beleive he's dead - the alive and mentally and physically energetic and enchanting and capturing person he was. He liked to lay down with naked women too, i think its just a great feeling and we just want it! like chocolate.

November 2, 2003
5:35 pm
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typing mistakes again, ahh.
corrected:
"which man doesnt want a women's naked body pressed against *him*?"

November 3, 2003
3:26 am
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silence
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If you want sweaty clothes, I can start shipping out my shirts every night at the end of my shift.

November 3, 2003
3:39 pm
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Anonymous
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No, of course it isn't. And I take it as a veiled personal attack on me. Don't know why you felt like attacking me, and don't care. No need to reply, I won't be reading.

I'm saddened by all the mutual attacks I see on the board lately.

November 3, 2003
3:41 pm
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Anonymous
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And congratulations. I never saw a more heinous way to hurt someone.

November 3, 2003
3:42 pm
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Anonymous
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And congratulations. I never saw a more heinous way to hurt someone.

November 3, 2003
7:16 pm
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Mafi.

You feel that someone attacked you in some way????

November 3, 2003
7:38 pm
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Guest_guest.

You said:

"which man doesnt want a women's naked body pressed against *him*?"

I guess that I failed to get my point across here. The point, that I was trying to make, was that my desire was not based on a sexual need but another well disguised need. At that time I was full of fear with good reason. But my fear of admitting my fear to myself, dictated that I seek relief in another way.

My point was that my need for security underpinning my heightened sexual drive - not my need for sex -that had been by that stage well and truly satiated.

Further and even more relevant to my above point, you said:
"Evolution makes us want sex and think of vaginas and sex all the time."

I suspect that whilst evolution has ensured our drive to procreate, it is my belief that as males our incessant desire for sex is largely underpinned by our need to feel validated and secure. After all wanting to be loved is often just this need in disguise. Women are, it seems to me, more free to openly express this need than men. That's why a lot of women want 'caring men' not just sex toys. I suspect that a lot of men are unwilling to admit to themselves their fears.

November 4, 2003
10:28 pm
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mafi, are you ok. was that for me, i hope not.

Tez
i see. you say men also want caring women but dont say it much, i can agree with what you said here:
"Women are, it seems to me, more free to openly express this need than men."

i also think that perhaps the reason we dont see many men wanting caring women, is that they already get it -women care naturally. anyway.

gosh, i cant make my mind think right now. hmmmmmmmm.
i have bad headache, sorry.

we do see men having sex for the fun of it.. see all the CA men, they have sex with their girlfriends even if they dont love them. or, ur saying men get security from sexual relations.
oh well.. this is for later, i cant think anymore for now.

November 5, 2003
5:58 pm
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Guest_guest.

Yes, of course men have sex for fun as well. What I am saying is that what drives men to want sex is not simply to get their 'rocks off'. If it were then 'Mrs Palm and her five daughters' would suffice.

The number of female partners in heterosexual relationships far outnumber prostitutes. Why? I can assure you that procuring the services of one prostitute a week is cheaper than maintaining a wife and family. Thus the reason cannot be pecunary or a matter of convenience.

Men want to be cared for by that 'special' woman. The question is: 'What makes her special for him?'

My answer is that she meets his unconscious criteria for meeting his security needs amongst others. I doubt that most men are really conscious of this aspect of their relationship. Yet I believe that men are strongly driven to seek emotional security through their women amongst other means. Would a man admit this to himself? I doubt it - its not macho.

Women are - or so I believe. It is not uncommon to hear women say: "He is not meeting my emotional needs". I've never heard a guy say that about his female partner. No moving in those circles by preference, I cannot speak about homosexual relationships.

However, there are always exceptions - guys who flit from woman to woman avoiding intimacy at any cost. I believe that these men are the ones who have had an emotionally abusive infancy and have never formed any kind of strong bonding with their mothers.

November 6, 2003
12:35 am
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>> The number of female partners in heterosexual relationships far outnumber prostitutes. << The reason is very very obvious Tez. Prostitutes are thought to be dirty and "sl*ts", they are thought to be immoral and what not. This is the corrupt world. In a good non-spoilt modernized world, you would have many many more women offering sex for money. Just recently, a female friend of mine told me, many men in her office had offered to have sex with her. She said if she just wanted to have sex with me (yes that was her, my short term 'partner'), she could be a prostitute and have those guys and have them pay her too. Prositution is a dirty profession.. thats the main reason why every woman doesnt do it. The other next reason is is STD's. >> Men want to be cared for by that 'special' woman. << no .. i cannot accept this reason in this case and example.. i just showed you why prostitution isnt popular. Can you imagine, if the hottest girls in college started giving sex for $50 bucks? Which guy wouldnt have sex with them, and who would need girlfriends to give gifts to, to listen to their problems and everything? Guys need things to have fun with.. video games.. cars.. cell phones.. electronics.. girls.. items. Thats how Guys see the world (still this is no reason why girls should get upset over this.. afterall, girls see Diamonds as very precious... and a must have.. we do the same with girls. I mean objectifying doesnt mean disrespecting.. One can have well-mannered company CEO's pay for high class prostitutes.. and there wont be any disrespect involved in the "one night stand") I didnt want to read the rest of your post becuase of this big disagreement I had in that post. you see things from a different angle, but in this case.. the angle isnt true. .as i proved to you. If Prostitution was an honoured respected profession, just like "Field Manager" or "Human Resources Manager", or just "Secretary" .. or "Office Assistant" etc.. .. or even "mother" - we'd have prostitutes in much much larger numbers... no question about that. This is uncontestable and undenyable.. isnt it? I'd love to see arguments against it! would be a challenge and if true, might be a learning experience for me. Thats why I dont care to say bold things.. as they say "One cannot discover new oceans unless one has courage to leave the shore" this is such a beautiful quotation.. i can never forget.. and it describes me.

November 6, 2003
1:19 pm
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Ladeska
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Tez, not to be butting in here but, it's hard to watch and know why Mafi was hurt and not say anything. I haven't been even reading on these threads and just came in here for a minute and went OH NO! I think what maybe you guys are missing is that - Mafi is of jewish nationality. She lives in Israel so the story that you told Tez, hit her very hard. I just wasn't sure if you knew this or not.

November 6, 2003
5:49 pm
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Ladeska
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Was thinking about the Nazi experimentation thing and it rang a bell with me.....wasn't that experiment done by the Japanese in WWII and wasn't it headed by I think Hirihito's brother who was basically doing all this through and with a phareceutical company? It was called Unit 731 maybe. But if my memory serves me correctly - they did this thing of freezing people and bringing them back and logging what happened and did it to prisoners. And when it came to light that this brother of Hirihito was found out and it was found out the Japanese phar. co's. were actually doing this - the Japanese framed another guy that actually wasn't even there at all but he was asked to "fall on his sword" and did. Also with alot of help from the Americans, this all got very hushed up. Why? Because we were buying the information produced by the experiments.

I mean - two experiments of this kind could have happened but I just remembered this other one. And to think that anyone would even do this to anyone is just EVIL. Humans are sooo deplorable sometimes. When you start mixing sex with torture and killing people - that's just really sickness regardless of how or why they get a hard on or don't. I mean who the hell really cares at that point? You're killing the man!!!

And Guest, I have to say I was a bit surprised regarding you and your question to Mafi about - what's wrong? I thought you already knew even if Tez didn't, by speaking to her on other threads that she was from Israel and that anyone talking specifically to her, telling her a story about sex and then mention the holocaust and people being tortured and it having something to do with sex - might be offensive of hurtful to her in some way? So I know that could go over your head and you not realize how this might affect her but to me - it was like "huh"?

Anyways, putting up a thread about the Rape of Nanking or Nanjing and it has some info about this in the article.

November 6, 2003
6:31 pm
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Ladeska.

No I was not aware of her nationality. Thanks for pointing that out.

November 6, 2003
6:36 pm
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You're welcome. I didn't think you knew.

November 7, 2003
5:16 pm
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Ladeska, no, I have no idea even now why this hurt her or what hurt her. maybe i'm ignorant about world history. i do know about holocuat. oh ok.. now i see. i'm sorry i had no idea. Tez's intentions were ofcourse genuine thats why i didnt see anything wrong.. plus, first i couldnt link her and what Tez said. but maybe she hasnt seen Tez for long. oops, well, yea now i see. anyway, whatever. whats gonna happen now? both mafi are tez are good people, so i dont see any reason for any ill-airs. forgive and forget and move on.. everyone's put in situations they cannot control.. so the blame is not theirs.

November 7, 2003
11:33 pm
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hey mafi whats up, are you ok now

November 8, 2003
6:57 pm
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Guest_guest.

" ... so i dont see any reason for any ill-airs. forgive and forget and move on.. everyone's put in situations they cannot control.. so the blame is not theirs. "

No worries, matey. Mafi seems to have attributed intentions and dispositions to me that were based upon the state of her psyche not mine. I understand that. Therefore, I take no offense whatsoever at her venting her spleen.

Cause + conditions = effect.

Mafi's psyche + my statement = Mafi's highly painful emotional arousal.

My psyche + Mafi's response to my statement = pensive reflection on the human condition.

Thus:

(Emotional memories + beliefs + cognitions) + Stimuli = emotional state.

From my perspective, there is nothing to either forgive or to forget.

Should Mafi persist in her attributions of malicious intent on my behalf then that is her choice. There is little that I can do about that. If this is indeed her choice, then the emotional price will be hers to pay - no one elses. This is indeed the sad thing about the effects of the 'Fundamental Attribution Error'.

Om shanti.

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