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Exchanging email addresses on the threads - policy?
November 27, 2002
4:17 pm
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Hi SC (and all),

Exchanging email addresses on the threads isn't a safe thing any more. Well, not that it ever was, but people are more sensitive to it now. Is there a policy over when it is OK to post an email address, or when it would be appropriate for someone to contact you to be put in touch with another poster? Even a policy like "post addresses at your own risk" and "SC is not a switchboard" would be helpful. šŸ™‚

By the way, happy turkey day.

November 27, 2002
9:55 pm
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Hi, Ginger, liked what you had to say on the thread about Blondie and here re: Syqg. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

SC..same to you. I don't believe it is a sound policy to exchange e's. I feel that whatever you have to say to someone could be said in this "social"
forum, just as well as it can be said in an e-mail. That is just my opinion.

November 29, 2002
4:09 pm
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All.

There is a possible way, of exchanging email addresses that may be safe.

One could email the Site Coordinator asking her to give one's email address to a similarly requesting recipient of that address.

But this practice could evolve into an onerous duty for the SC and could in fact become quite overwhelming if the practice became too prevalent.

So... for that reason, I'm reluctant to suggest it. šŸ™‚ I obviously already have herein, haven't I.

November 29, 2002
4:30 pm
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Irishlass.

I take your point about "whatever you have to say to someone could be said in this "social" forum". It is a very valid one.

On the other hand, sometimes us guys and gals have parts of our psyches that we know are well and truly 'twisted' up. Telling someone else in confidence, knowing that we are safe from being publicly pillared, humiliated and flagrated for it, is a blessed way to get relief from that heavy burden. It allowed us to 're-own' that disenfranchised part of ourselves and to deal effectively with it without ongoing self-recriminations.

Step 5 of the twelves steps of Alcoholics Anonymous "Admitted to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs." involves such a process.

I remember disclosing a "deep, dark and self-disgusting secret" 30 years ago to a trusted person only to be told of a similar but far worse secret in return. Both of us roared laughing at what was no laughing matter. I guess we were laughing at our human frailties not the events disclosed. To this day I have been freed from this overwhelming burden. I now realise that it is our secrets that imprison us and isolate us from the rest of humanity.

Perhaps there is some justification for a 'private' email exchange. But, be warned though - it behoves us well to know to whom it is that we disclose such potentially damaging information and to have a solid basis for giving the recipients of our innermost secrets our trust. We should choose our 'bridge' to the rest of the human race carefully.

November 30, 2002
12:37 am
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Way ahead of you Tez..thought that the SC was already overworked and underpaid as it was (smile) Certainly comprehend about desenfranchised grief, baggage, whatever..carries a heavy burden, but once removed you wonder what all the fuss was about. Lucky for you a trusted friend was available..i would never be that brave. I probably will keep all my dark secrets locked in Pandora's box until these earthly coils I leave!! Would love to escape the harness i have created for myself sometimes..question...Are you a member of AA? Just curious...you appear to be quite learned..not that people in aa are stupid..ah..you know what i mean.

November 30, 2002
4:02 pm
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Irishlass.

Yes... I think I know what you mean, šŸ™‚

I have been fortunate to have been a member of AA for very nearly thirty years now. My AA birthday is the 30th January. So I'm a couple of months short of my 30th AA biffy. There'll be a bit of an ego trip on that day for someone, I'm sure. šŸ™‚

Quite learned? I'm not so sure about that. Notwithstanding some other universities to whom I have been somewhat of a bother, I've been attending , as a faithful student, the greatest university of all for some time now. It's called the university of life, a faculty of which is this web site. I'm not a fast learner though. Despite this, one day I hope to graduate with honors. šŸ™‚

November 30, 2002
5:06 pm
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An ego trip well deserved Tez..30 years...wow..that's commendable! But just old hat to you after that amount of time and that is just an assumption on my part. LOL...to graduate with honors on life..I will be taking my last breath thirsting to know more and still have a question on my lips as I struggle for the last breath...btw...AA focuses on a higher power...what was yours..again ..just curious.

December 1, 2002
5:00 pm
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Irishlass.

You asked, "...AA focuses on a higher power...what was yours..again ..just curious."

That's a very good question, that I've been asked before. Over the thirty years my concept has changed radically. I am now convinced if I live another thirty years, which is highly unlikely, my present concepts would change radically yet again. In fact I do hope they will, preferably into extinction of all concepts altogether.

Through observations of self and other, I am thus convinced of the impermanent and illusory nature of all things perceived by the senses including the deluded, preconditioned mind.

My present concept of a higher power is that of 'Essence of Mind'.

Such a concept is beyond conceptualization, beyond words, beyond knowing with the cognitive mind spelt with a small 'm'. Put in a very inept and ineffectual way, I believe - at the moment that is - that all is manifestations of this 'Essence of Mind'. All is therefore One. From this perspective, space, time and all objects of perception are projections of an infinite and boundless Mind through highly ignorant and deluded small 'm' minds some of which we know as our 'selves'.

Thus my higher power would be my Essense... that is none other than your Essense and the Essence of all else. To realize that Essence of the projected self that I know as me, I must of necessity gain nothing but I must lose all my 'preconditioning' that has gone on since time immemorial. This even entails losing this perception of being a permanent entity with an identity. How could someone live in this world in that state of unconditioned mind? One couldn't - one would be beyond the cycles of 'birth' and 'death' in any realm, heaven, hell or whatever.

Thus my higher power is my liberated Essence or 'True Nature'. Such a description is way beyond words and can, I believe, only be realized by losing the self, the preconditioned mind, and by being 'born again' into a non-conditioned state of mind - the Ultimate. Of course, in this state of Mind, upper case 'M', no sense of selfhood can possibly exist. There can be no subject-object relationships whatever - the All is 'seen' as One. Such a serene, ecstatic, blissful state precludes all human experiences. Thus 'my' higher power, my and your higher Self, manifests as all things thus intimately knowing all things first, second and third hand ... and all hands.

I expect no one to understand or agree with what I have written and that is perfectly OK by me. I am certainly not trying to convince anyone of the veracity of my beliefs. Neither am I sensitive to criticism or questioning. I openly admit the limitations of my as yet 'deluded' mind.

Though I've done a pathetic job of trying to describe the indescribable, from the state of my present ignorance, it is the best that I can do. I hope you find my answer in some way satisfies your curiosity. šŸ™‚

December 1, 2002
8:45 pm
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Oh Tez, I was thinking during my run yesterday about some of the things that you've written, and how fearful I get when I contemplate these things. I recognize it as fear, which is good, so that I can address it as such. In your posts I hear such peace and well-wishing to all, and I hear no fear in you of others, of God or the Universe, of what the future holds, or even of death. The piece of soul that is *me*, is so scared to be lost, so scared to go to church, or find a higher power, because finding that higher power means submission, means losing oneself. I haven't even finished finding myself yet, and now I have to lose myself again? *smile* It makes me so fearful, and wonder why I was put here at all if not to be whole and complete on my own. Struggle struggle struggle, always feeling completely alone and never quite connecting or getting it, never feeling like I am part of the one piece of fabric of space, time, matter and energy that consumes us all.

I have blinders on and cannot see or understand. But I'm trying.

December 2, 2002
4:07 pm
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Gingerleigh.

You wrote, "I hear no fear in you of others, of God or the Universe, of what the future holds, or even of death. "

Oh, I fear death alright. My commonly reoccurring 'death dream' reminds me of that. Only a couple of nights ago, I had a nightmare in which I 'died'. I jumped up in bed in terror, awoke my partner Joy and said, "I'm dead! I'm dead." She said "Oh no your not." She rolled over and went back to sleep mumbling something like "I wish...". šŸ™‚ I was left wide awake contemplating my coming mortality wherein fear subsided.

You said, "I haven't even finished finding myself yet, and now I have to lose myself again? " The question is "What is it that you will be finding and losing?"

We as humans blithly create with our minds clear cut demarcation lines that exist only in our minds. For instance we clearly define two colors 'black' and 'white' as if these two colors exist in their own right. In fact without our eyes to sense either the reflected light waves of photons(white) or no reflections (Black)the demarcation would be meaningless. So there is a huge dependency between our sense organs and the conditioning of the mind and radiated energy or lack of in establishing what we assume as clear cut and independent things called black and white colors. In fact colors don't exist in their own right, only as our mind made fanrications. Please note that I am not denying the existence of the processes involved in the recognition of black and white colors. But would the colors exist without any observers?

Similarly, when it comes to the 'self' how can the self exist in isolation from all else? It couldn't. Thus, we are part of a giant cosmic process. But our minds rebel against this. We want to see ourselves as having a permanent independent existence that is somehow eternal. So we created the concept of an eternal 'soul'. I think that the word 'soul' is of Greek derivation going back to antiquity. So the 'ego' has a long history of fighting for its flawed belief in its own eternal existence. As part of this fight for its existence, the 'ego' imagines the existence of other 'egos' and even a supreme 'Ego' that it calls 'God'.

I believe that, upon dying, it is this disintegration of these 'borders' bounding the imagined 'self' that we fear. The loss of the body is the loss of the most clearly defined border that we can find. Yet that border is demonstrably arbitary and not valid.

See if you can find any clearly defined border beyond which you can say this is 'other' and within which is 'me'. In the end it seems that we have pictures, perceptions and concepts in the mind of what is 'I, me, my, mine' that do not stand up very well to this test of defining what constitutes 'self'. In the end all I can see is my 'involvement' in an ongoing process. It is because I cannot bear the thought of the loss of my ego boundaries that I seize upon this 'involvement' and I try to use this 'involvement' in creating this illusion of a permanent, eternal self. Please note, I do not deny the existence of the 'involvement'. I only question 'Who it is' that is involved. šŸ™‚

My answer, "It is only the boundless, limitless One who is involved".

Therefore, what is there to "struggle" for or against? The struggle is the imaginary 'ego's' ongoing game of self maintenance - a mind construct fighting to maintain itself. šŸ™‚

December 3, 2002
1:29 am
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Sounds similar to the age-old question, "if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?"

I look forward to my morning run where I can think again on what you've posted.

December 3, 2002
3:46 pm
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Gingerleigh.

Well does it?

Two Ch'an Buddhist monks were arguing over whether it is the flag or the wind that is moving.

A Patriach strolled past and said, "You are both wrong. It is neither. It is your 'mind' that is moving. "

A monk crossing a river on a bridge suddenly realizes that it is the bridge that is flowing.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

December 3, 2002
5:12 pm
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What is the sound of one hand clapping?

I think Bart Simpson demonstrated that *L*

December 4, 2002
3:15 pm
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Squeezles.

Did he? What did it sound like?

December 4, 2002
8:37 pm
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Well the best way to explain it is to have you do a self demonstration. With one hand attempt to hit the palm of your hand with your fingers...one hand clapping. I realise that it hardly answers the philosophical question that was originally proposed, and that little demonstration is as a result of TV humour, but I suppose in a literal sense it is true.

December 5, 2002
4:23 pm
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Squeezles.

Can you imagine how absolutely fantastic it would be to see the world without any preconditioned notions about what you are seeing?

Life would be Christmas 365 days of the year, wouldn't it. If the whole world was like that, the lamb would certainly be able to lie down with the lion. I wish....

December 5, 2002
5:41 pm
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Isn't Christmas a preconceived idea?

December 5, 2002
8:17 pm
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She has a point. šŸ™‚

December 6, 2002
3:53 pm
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Squeezies.

Yep... it most certainly is - as are all any any words that one could possibly ever write. šŸ™‚

December 7, 2002
1:17 am
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Can you imagine a world without hypothetical questions?

*grin*

December 7, 2002
6:53 pm
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Squeezles.

What do you think the word hypothetical means? šŸ™‚

December 8, 2002
6:18 pm
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Tez. It's a joke :o)

December 9, 2002
4:05 pm
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Squeezles.

I'm a bit dumb - the 'punch line' missed me, altogether. šŸ˜‰

December 9, 2002
6:17 pm
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I guess you could say it's a 'play on words'. The question itself: "Can you imagine a world without hypothetical questions?" is hypothetical.

December 10, 2002
3:52 pm
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Squeezles.

Gotcha... I think they call that kind of joke 'irony', but I'm not sure.

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