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does anyone have an opinion about these scriptures?
January 26, 2010
11:27 pm
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red blonde
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Well... I have never looked at it as being 'special' there have been a lot of 'black sheep' in my ancestry... even in 'service' of the Church!... could tell you some stories!!!

I guess the sudden changing of religions when I was young and a few other things that happened perhaps as consequences stemming from that abupt change... I don't know how to put it....left a deep confusion and curiosity in me before my teens and as a teen... I had more resources to start investigating? It was very confusing going to a new church, new religion teachings... and yet still 'acting' Catholic at home and at relatives.. and when parent's friends were around. I was always asking questions when I was in Sunday School. I guess I couldn't understand being taught one way in Sunday school and being taught a different way at home... I will leave it at that... Perhaps I was exposed to a wide range of religions and religious beliefs through a wider range of different nationalities and cultures at my High School.. Perhaps it was just a thirst for more knowledge or just curiousity... dunno.

There are differences in translations and wording and interpretations.. in different 'Bibles'. I guess I couldn't understand why my two Bibles did not 'match up'... I thought all Bibles were the same, apparently, they are not. (Same way with my religious teachings.)

Just Google things... Like 'Elijah'... the one link I gave you is just one of many different perspectives/interpretations.

There were many different Christian 'sects ' before Constantine the Great.. before he started the Ecumenical Council.. What to keep and what to discard as 'stories' of Christ. He even ordered the extermination of a few different sects... such as the Christian Gnostics. Soooo.... Christians did not get the full 'downlo' on Jesus's life, etc.
only what the different Ecumenical Councils WANTED the masses to believe ... just chucked or burned the rest.... (Some WERE saved though)

January 27, 2010
1:41 am
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CraigCo
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Andii,

Oh yea well, I know you are but, what am I?? lol

Guess you didn't read the "wrong thread-wrong person" accompanied by an apology.

Boy, yer just waitin ta scrap, aintcha?! hehe

Hugs,

Crg

January 27, 2010
11:01 am
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Lillabit
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hello Red blonde. yes i know there has been lots of dissntion over translation. thats a shame isnt it to not agree over little thimgs. when really we are all one in Christ. i doubt He would approve of all the in fihgting. .sometimes i doubt he would approve of how churches have come to be. and of how Xtians have hurt each other... killed in his name. i know theres scriptures where Jesus sounds like a warrior. but i think thats a metaphor. n i dont' thimk thats what He meant. i thimk it would make Him sad. sorrowful.

this is from the link you posted. "When Jezebel learns of what has transpired on the mountain (events that Ahab attributes to the work of Elijah alone) she immediately sends a messenger to Elijah, threatening him with death in the name of her gods (19:2). Elijah’s reaction is in sharp contrast to his earlier acts of faith and obedience to the Lord and his boldness in the face of opposition. He flees southwards in an effort to put as much distance between himself and Jezebel as possible. Leaving his servant at Beersheba in the South of Judah (see Map) he went a day’s journey further into the desert, lay down under a broom tree and prayed that he might die (19:2-4). The Lord’s response to his servant is one of grace. He twice sent a messenger of his own to provide Elijah with food and drink, for the prophet was physically exhausted. Sustained by the meal he traveled South once more for 40 whole days (cf. Exod. 34:28; Num. 14:33-34) until he came to Mt. Horeb (=Mt. Sinai - Exod. 3:1). There he entered into the same cave that Moses had stood in (the Hebrew has the definite article. i.e. "He went into the cave..." 1 Kings 19:9; Exod. 33:22) (Keil, 1988: 256). There the Lord meets with him. It is apparent from Elijah’s answer to the Lord that his memory has become somewhat selective. "...the Israelites have forsaken your covenant [they had just reaffirmed their faith in Yahweh - 18:39] thrown down your altars [Elijah had just rebuilt one - 18:30], and killed your prophets with the sword [He had just supervised the slaying of 450 prophets of Ba’al - 18:40; 19:1]. I alone am left [What of the 100 others hidden by Obadiah - 18:4, 13?], and they are seeking my life, to take it away." (1 Kings 19:10, NRSV [brackets mine]).

The Lord’s way of dealing with Elijah was not what he had expected. Like Moses he had been used to seeing the Lord manifest himself in awesome display of power (18:38, cf. Exod. 19:18), but now the Lord revealed himself in a whisper. His message was that it is not up to Elijah alone to complete the campaign against Jezebel, for there were 7 000 others in Israel who were still faithful. Elijah was to go from Sinai and anoint Elisha, Jehu and Hazael; men who would together complete the work that he had begun (1 Kings 19:11-18). So Elijah obeyed and took Elisha, son of Shaphat, as his attendant (19:19-21). Elisha in his turn anointed Jehu (2 Kings 9:6) and told Hazael that he would be king (2 Kings 8:13)."

From 1 Kings 19:4. it says " while he himself went a day's journey into the desert. He came to a broom tree, sat down under it and prayed that he might die. "I have had enough, LORD," he said. "Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors."

he prayed to die. then went to sleep. this sounds depressed/ suicidal to me.he gave up. Does it to you? i like the interpretation from the link you.gave where it says the Lord's response was one of grace. That,s a gentler way of saying God shook the earth set it on fire to make Elijah get up and comtinue to do His work. or He didnt let him wallow in it. But I don't agree that the Lord revealed himself n a whisper. My bible says in 1 Kings 19:9-13
9 There he went into a cave and spent the night. And the word of the LORD came to him: "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
10 He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."
11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

wind that blew mountains a part shattered rocks n earthquakes n fire dont' seem gentle to me. that seems scarey lol. but God showd his mighty power n did get Elijah out of the cave. He made him go back the way he came. i wonder about htat.

what denomination is the site you listed? is it Anglican coming from UK? i like to know thimgs like that.

January 27, 2010
11:51 am
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red blonde
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That is what I mean about there being too many different and diverse 'interpretations and translations'. Which one is the true 'version'? Which has the true 'meaning'? Seems to me that the Bible is being twisted every which way to accommodate different sects and different views... of those who are tending 'their flocks' as Christian leaders.

There are several different reasons why I do not believe in religion and religious teachings any more. I started to question everything I had learned or had heard.

I could not intergrate the teachings of the Catholic Church with those of the Methodist Church with the teachings that I was receiving through my family/relatives.

I could not integrate sitting and listening my cousin priests sermons and their acting so pious and holier than thou...in Church and the things that they did outside of the Church. To me, it was like night and day.

With Google, it is so different now... one does not have to go and attend different religious sects when seeking answers... nor digging through endless reference books, etc. while researching.

There was an incident that happened in my mother's family that was hushed up by her family, the US government and the Vatican... It happened when I was a child and I didn't learn about it until I was around 40. It had to do with the Vatican wanting to get 'fisionable' material (nuclear) to do research...
two of my Mother's twin cousins (my second cousins) spent time in Fort Leavinworth.. Maximum security Federal prison... because they decided to 'liberate' a nuclear bomb from one of the storage facilities. After that, the Vatican was forced to sign a 'nonproliferation' treaty with the USA (and UN, I believe). That is a fact... though the circumstances that brought that about have been 'obscured'. I only found out about it when the 'twins' were finally released... and then the information was passed on by 'whispering'...

To my family.... I am a 'heretic', the black sheep. I have, perhaps, some clues as to why... perhaps it is because of my 'gifts' from God... I am not really sure. I should write a novel about it all one day.

Just don't take everything that people tell you or preach to you at face value... always seek different views and opinions.... and always seek your own truth within your heart and soul... If something doesn't 'feel' right... it probably isn't...

January 27, 2010
11:58 am
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red blonde
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correction on the spelling: integrate

I guess, I was trying to create a new word - meaning: to balance things within me?

January 27, 2010
12:05 pm
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Lillabit
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Does anyone have an opinion about Elijah praying to die n laying down to sleep? Does that sound like depression?

January 27, 2010
1:10 pm
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red blonde
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Yes, Elijah was depressed... He was also confused and afraid. He had completed what he had been asked to do by God... alone... which brought the people back to God... But Jezebel, after learning that King Ahab's 'prophets' were executed, threatened to have her own people and prophets seek him out and have him killed... Elijah didn't know what to do... this was not part of what God told him to do... which was only to bring the Children of Israel back to God and destroy the 'false prophets' who were trying to make the Israelites worship idols. It was one thing to challenge the false prophets to a 'duel', it was another to face a formidable foe who was not of Israel... alone. There had been no guidance from God at that time, so he didn't know what more to do but run and hide and want to die. In his fear and confusion, he may have thought that he destroyed the wrong prophets... and that he was the only prophet left in Israel. Fear, confusion and depression can make a person 'crazy' and doubt themselves.

January 27, 2010
1:24 pm
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red blonde
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This is why I objected to your pastor's intepretation of the scripture.

What did the story of Elijah have to do with wanting and expecting ... and not deserving? I just don't see the correlation at all.

January 27, 2010
2:15 pm
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_anonymous
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(CraigCo

January 27, 2010
2:30 pm
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Lillabit
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i can understnd Elijahs discouragement n dispondency. fear n disappointment can lead to depression. i wondered if Elijah was afraid or only would rather have the Lord kill him then the enemy of the Lord. he prayed to die but ran from Jezebels threats.

well Elijah thought wht he did.. slaying the Baal worshippers would bring glory to God n to Israel was all it would take and he was dis heartemed by Jezebels persecution. Pastor said when things dont' go the way we want them to ... if we dont live up to an expectation we have of ourself or of God, we might get angry. when we dont have our hopes fulfilled.... or when we have had them taken from us.

why did you object to my pastors interpretatoin?

January 27, 2010
5:13 pm
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red blonde
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Because Elijah SUCCEEDED in doing what God had asked of him, what was expected for him to do by God. Which was to bring the people back to God. Not King Ahab or convert Jezabel...

King Ahab (a Jewish King who had sinned against God and leading Jewish people astray by having them worship idols which was in defiance of the 1st and 2nd Commandments) had threatened Elijah and had been looking for him before the 'Duel' came about.

Elijah again became afraid and ran because he was NOT expected to do anything with Jezabel and her prophets by God.

So what were Elijah's wants or expectations or hopes... of himself or of God at that time?

Okay, here is how I 'read' it:

God did not want Elijah to be depressed and wanting to die... So he shook the mountains...etc. showing Elijah he was not 'alone', that the Lord his God was still with him...even in the depths of Elijah's depression and Elijah needed some time and coaching or coaxing... he was brought food and water... and when Elijah was coming out of the depression... God again said... "Look, I do have some more things I expect you to do."

January 27, 2010
5:54 pm
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Lillabit
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Red blonde i dont understand why you objected to my pastors teaching. it doesnt seem as if you are saying amything to diffenert than what hes saying. God told Elijah to get up.He brought food to strenthen Elijah. He shook the earth to get his attention cos He still had work for Elijah to do. i think it would be hard to try to minister about mental issues. because it isnt' mentioned in words that we understand. The Bibles' been translated from so many languages so many times you know? I mean what is despondincy, despair. is hopelessness a lack of faith? scepticism little faith?

James 1:2 says to consider it a joy when you face trials.
In Matthew... Peter was fine walking on th e water toward the Lord until he saw the wind. meaning he took his focus off the Lord and started to sink. He looked away and focused on the situation. When he lost his faith .... Jesus held out his hand to bring his attention back to him. Oh ye of little faith why do you doubt me?

January 27, 2010
6:37 pm
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red blonde
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People not wanting, not expecting, not deserving, anything... only waiting for whatever that happens as a gift of God???

January 27, 2010
6:37 pm
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red blonde
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People not wanting, not expecting, not deserving, anything... only waiting for whatever that happens as a gift of God???

January 27, 2010
6:39 pm
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red blonde
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oops, wasn't expecting that to post twice.

Lillabit - if that is what you want to believe... then believe it... I am just of a different opinion, my own opinion... that's all.

January 27, 2010
7:59 pm
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Lillabit
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Red blonde i understand what you are saying. but whatXtian minister would preach that we can be happy without God? that we deserve tp be happy without Him? thats not even scriptural. God gives us everything. life and afterlife.

if we dont consider trials a joy after a certain amoumt of time. consider them a burden or a reason to remain unhappy .... are we doing Gods will?

January 28, 2010
5:22 pm
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red blonde
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Lillabit

You are right... no preacher would...

But, that sermon just didn't sit 'right' with me.

In my own opinion -When a person is depressed and feeling suicidal or wanting to die, I think the last thing anyone should tell them is not to have expectations, hopes, wants and dreams because they do not deserve them... and that what happens, happens, and should be accepted... according to the will of God (or as a gift of God).

I know that I wouldn't want that said to me when I am in a deep depression.

January 28, 2010
6:43 pm
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_anonymous
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(((Lillabit)))- I really admire the way you walk the walk.

January 30, 2010
10:22 am
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Lillabit
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Destinystar thanks but im not perfect. just trying to make sense of it all. just because i say scriptures doesnt mean i agree with them or practice them. when i put them on here im' tryimg to fdigure them out. seroiusly if everyone agreed on everything that was in the Bible i domt think there would even b different denominatoins in Xtianity. there would just be the one original one. but someoe decided they believed a little differnet.... someone dicided they liked it that way too.... they told two friends.. n they told two friends.... so there was a different denomination. people took what they wanted accordimg to their needs at th time. so people have differnt teachings too.

January 30, 2010
10:35 am
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Lillabit
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January 30, 2010
10:35 am
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Lillabit
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Red blonde i understand. it was the last thing i wanted to hear to. i was angry at Pastor for even implying it for givimg me the scripture to read n think about. even now weather or not i agree with it im' glad he did cxos it made me mad enough to start thinkimg things thru. focusing outside myself for a while. it would be the same if i was fornicating or adulteratimg. if someone who loved me..cared about me reminded me that it says in the Bible that its a sin... i might not want to hear it. because i would have to face up to my responsbility in it. but its in the Bible. no matter how you want to tranlate it or interpret it. its in the Bible so i cant fault him for trying.

January 30, 2010
10:36 am
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Lillabit
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oh!!! sorry about that blamk post. i have a squigly mouse????

February 3, 2010
8:27 pm
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This is an interesting post. Everyone has the right to their opinion and it's wonderful that people can share because it makes you think.

I'm so sorry to hear about your husband.

I guess I'm confused about why this was offered by the pastor. Is that something that you've clarified with him? I would be curious to know his answer.

I believe that the Bible stories offer people something to think about and they're not outdated. Even though the language is different, etc. the ideas in there help people to question their lives. I believe that is God's gift to people, to question the lives we're living and to make choices.

February 4, 2010
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Lillabit
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I enjoyed this thread too. i enjoyed reading everyones opinions. i havent posted much because it made me feel bad to think that i was the reason someone left the site. i realize there are people here that dont have the same opinions as i do about Xtianity but there are other things going on in my life right now and i dont' need the drama. weve had some bad news about my stepmom. ive been sick. i'm in al lot of pain right now n to read today about how someone felt attacked a month ago just doesnt' do it for me right now. enough already. for the most part this is a great group of people n i appreciate the welcome i got. i appreceiate the time everyone took to post to me. thank you all.

February 10, 2010
1:57 pm
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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This is alot to process, I plan to go back and reread again before commenting but I wanted to say it sure is alot of process!

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