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Do you think that jesus was a doormat?
August 7, 2004
12:31 am
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brendalee
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No offense to those religious types...but really - isn't aspiring to being saintly kind of like giving yourself away to be a kind of - well like, a doormat? Maybe it's my catholic upbringing that screwed me up in this train of thought....but it taught to me be so unjudgemental to the point...where I didn't even have a "self." Relinquishing of ego to the point of no return - you know? Don't ya kind of think that Jesus would've had ulcers? I mean.....REALLY NOW!!!! (Not meaning to insult anyone in the beliefs that serve them well...mind you.)

August 7, 2004
2:05 am
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Cici
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nah. ya feel sorry for people who are too ignorant to understand their own ignorance. "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do...." and all that.

August 7, 2004
10:45 am
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sixfootblonde
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Exactly. Kind of like not having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Like if you saw a man down in a manhole screaming at you to run there was an alien behind you, would you climb down there and argue with him to explain how there is no alien? Or would you walk by without a word because you know that he is convinced and while you know better, sometimes you just have to let some battles go as the smarter, bigger person?

Does that make any sense?

August 7, 2004
11:03 am
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brendalee

I think religion, including Christianity, has been and still is used as a way to govern and control both masses of people and individuals, and consequently the "doormat" teaching reigns.

I, too, was brought up to turn the other cheek, etc. And it makes ya a doormat.

I think the whole point is missed when we do that. Jesus stood up for his convictions, just in a peaceful way.

free

August 7, 2004
4:06 pm
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Juanita
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Jesus... a doormat? Must be one with a large "welcome" written on it, wiping away the dirtiness that has sank to the very bottom of us, making us feel cleansed, loved, and wanted...

He showed that all people deserve love. He touched the sick and outcast, loved those deemed unloveable, and gave selflessly of himself. He showed us to forgive and that each day, each moment, is new - a new opportunity for us to better ourselves.

If we all followed his example, the world would be a better place. It is better to give than receive...

A doormat philosphy? Better that than a self-centered, all-for-me philosphy .... can you imagine all the hatred that there would be if all anyone cared about was themselves with no thought or care about others? What an ugly place Earth would be.

Shining examples are the goals to which we try to aspire, or at least use as guides. Jesus was/is a shining example of what love and forgiveness is supposed to be.

August 8, 2004
10:51 am
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Well said Juanita.

I think what was being spoken of is the fact that it is easy to become a doormat when others harm us. I did that, and struggle with that to this day where my ex monster is concerned. I struggle with "picking up the sword." No supposed to do that.

This has allowed my ex monster to continue hurting. It's hard to stand up to somebody that attacks when the conviction of turning the other cheek and forgiving is instilled so deeply.

Problem is, I became a scapegoat for misplaced anger, and still am.

Consequently, a dv and stalking survivor.

Where is the line?

free

August 9, 2004
11:22 am
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Worried_Dad
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Jesus was a hero. Jesus was a liberator. He probably even drank "liberation brew." Jesus knew he was in for a rough time when he went back home to teach. He made a decision that changed the world.

Now I am a doormat. In doormat recovery. Let's see how do those twelve steps go.

August 10, 2004
1:42 pm
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workinonit
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Jesus was one who "got it" Why in the world would he have cared if he was perceived as a doormat? Others opinions mattered not to this great prophet, savior, seer, whatever your beliefs are of him. He had the message that was needed and still is but in my opinion much was misinterpreted and misunderstood.

But, doormat?...who cares?

August 12, 2004
6:26 am
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Well, I care, kuz it seems that part of believing is trying to follow.

The "following" path kinda does lend to getting trampled ad-infinitum, especially when adhering to the "judge not".

As asked earlier, where's the line?

Another doormat in recovery-free

August 12, 2004
6:28 am
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......and punching bag, and scapegoat, and object of aggression-misplaced anger- hatred-hurt-blame-object in dire need of punishment

free

August 12, 2004
7:21 pm
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workinonit
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Do you think that is how Jesus felt? I don't. I don't think that bothered him at all. That's why I say who cares?

August 12, 2004
8:30 pm
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silence
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Jesus was a man. Anybody who says differently, missed the point entirely.

August 13, 2004
2:27 am
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Do you believe he was married to Mary Magdalene Silence?

free

August 13, 2004
8:18 am
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workinonit
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silence I don't get your comment, what difference does it make that Jesus was a man?

August 13, 2004
1:35 pm
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Well, current church teachings are that Jesus was a man, but had no thoughts or actions that we consider "sinful."

I think the point is that he was a man, complete with all the thoughts and feelings and urges that men naturally have. The Bible was compiled as a means both to spread the word and to control & govern the masses of people.

We have an accounting of Jesus' birth and his death, and a couple instances of his childhood.

What was his life like? The "Da Vinci Code" does attempt to address the issue, in part.

Did Jesus go through the typical "no!" period of toddlerhood? Be potty trained? Did he have to be taught to share at age 4 or 5? Taught manners and social customs? Did he ever lie to get out of trouble- more importantly, was he ever disciplined and if so for what? Did he ever have a temper tantrum? Did he experience egocentrism and have to learn not to be selfish? What was puberty like for Him? Did he experience sexual urges and masturbate? Did he desire a woman? Was he married to Mary Magdalene and have children? If so, what was fatherhood like for him? Where were his children during the Crucifixion? What happened to them afterwards? What happened to Mary? Both the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdelene? Where was Joseph during Jesus' childhood and the Crucifixion? I mean did Joseph attend the birth and disappear forever?- kinda scummy if he did. Did Mary raise Jesus single-handedly? Did she ever marry and have other children?

The things listed above, these are natural things of all people's lives. Natural and normal for all human beings. It is us who considers them "bad". Maybe these are things that must be learned to cope with and accept as human beings.

Seems as though we want to believe Jesus was a man, but that he really wasn't.

free

August 13, 2004
4:31 pm
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sixfootblonde
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He had to become man, or the whole point is lost.

The difference is, he became man out of choice. For us.

"greater love has no man, than he lay down his life for his friend" -- has always humbled me. I am thankful that I am loved. I am thankful my pride does not keep me from accepting that love/gift, nor my intellect keep me from still seeing thru eyes of faith.

Some things you just have to believe. Faith.

August 13, 2004
8:06 pm
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brendalee
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I dunno. If you have a stong belief and faith about who Jesus was and it serves you well - more power to you! really. But for me, I never bought into it. Never have. Never will. I am in ageement with free on the points raised. For me - why was it that Eve was born from Adam's rib - - when we all know that birth comes from a woman? Why wasn't Adam born from Eve's rib.....and Adam was the one that ate the apple? The bible to me has always been obviously slanted (and therefore always felt untrue at a core gut-level)to me, always, in that it seems to STRONGLY suggest a patriarchal view of the world and of truth. Further, can someone please explain to me in the first book Genesis 19:30-36: "And the first born said to the younger....'Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him that we may preserve the seed of our father...." This passage has been notably absent from commentaries by fundamentalists, who insist that the bible speaks literal truths. How likely is it that this alleged seduction was plannned by the children? Just whose fantasy does this sound like?
Above quote from the book; "Secret Survivors" bu E. Sue Blume.

August 13, 2004
9:48 pm
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Juanita
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Religion is based on faith. Faith is believing in something that cannot necessarily be proved.

I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary, all the angels and saints.... My faith has given me much comfort over the years, helped me to survive times of turmoil, and yes, I believe to have seen my prayers answered (and sometimes the answer was 'no'). Having Faith has helped me and guided me.... this is exactly what your faith is supposed to do.

I further believe, as there are many people of many religions, that we can't possibly be all right.... look at Christians and Jews just for one example - to believe Jesus was Christ, or that Christ has not come yet?

I sincerely hope and believe God has a sense of humor. He created us all, and in the Old Testament created the Tower of Babylon with all the worlds different languages. Many religions teach very similar guidelines - love thy neighbor, be good, live well & not hurt others. Is God having a time watching us try to sort this out? I'd hate to see either myself or a friend who is Jewish, not gain entry into Life Eternal because one of us was brought up in the wrong faith. I chose to believe that God loves us all, and will bring all His children home when the time comes. He will forgive us our sins and love us as the loving Father He is... and will be understanding of how confused we may be, or understand that we tried our best...

All of our children make mistakes... think thoughts different than our own ... do we love them any less? No. We try to teach them the right way - guide them, help them, & nuture them. God is no different surely. We were created in His image.

Jesus came to Earth to become a man to learn how we feel. I believe yes he was a toddler & Mary had a time of it. I believe He became early in life. He was teaching to the Rabbis as a young teen. He went to the desert to face torment and temptation, and won. His faith supported Him... His faith in His Father. He died for us because He loved us so much & wanted to show His Father we are worthy of love and salvation.

I am not perfect. I am a sinner. I am wrong sometimes. I believe in God and that my Faith will carry me thru. I believe in Life Eternal. I believe I will see all my friends in the Hereafter, no matter what Faith they may be. All our questions will be answered some day & I am sure we will all think on some level, "oh my!". We are all doing the best we can to be the best kind of person we can be.

I may be wrong, you may think I am full of shit. My beliefs do not hurt anyone, and help me.

One thing is for sure - some day we will all see.

Won't that be interesting??

Love never dies...

August 13, 2004
10:08 pm
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The death of Jesus isn't the biggie. People have sacrificed their lives throughout history, and do to this very day, for those they love, and those they are loyal to. Doesn't make 'em God.

The resurrection is the biggie. THAT only God could do.

The crucifixion of Jesus is substantiated in written Roman history. It happened. Crucifixion was an accepted form of punishment during this time, and Roman Roads were lined with crucified people. No human being ever crucified during this time peiod was ever able to withstand even a fraction of the torture that Jesus endured during his last 24 hours. This lends to the theory of His agenda.

Faith is a wonderful thing. Personally, I'm not interested in the questions brought out above to strengthen my own faith. I'm fascinated with Jesus and His life. Wanna know more about it. Wanna understand. Wanna know what was left out of scripture and why.

to me, Jesus is the key to my existence here on earth. Now, that's just something worth exploring!

free

August 16, 2004
8:19 am
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eve
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Well,

I'm afraid if Jesus went into any psychological practice, or - even worse - to a management-workshop nowadays......

.... he would soon be told that he was a doormat, that he should try to work more efficiently and other psycho-management-barble. 🙂

Now - that doesn't mean that he did anything wrong, does it?

August 16, 2004
2:34 pm
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workinonit
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In my opinion, you all are missing an important point. The message of Jesus Christ was to love one another as I have loved you. This is a definite doormat statement but I do not think it should be percieved negatively. Think it through, if we all did what Jesus asked it would be a hell of a world!!

My opinion respectfully differs from yours Juanita. Please do not feel I am judging but I believe there is room for all of us to be right. I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Lutheran, and now enjoy the methods of the Universalists and similar inter-faith beliefs. Wars have begun and, lives have been needlessly lost because people can not agree to disagree on this issue. Allow me mine as I will allow you yours or, LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU!!!!

I also feel that Jesus wanted us to see "the way" to oneness with God. His message has been twisted, mis-related, cursed and upheld depending on whose perspective. Much like Whisper Down the Lane!!

Free, I too would like to know more about the life of this man. But, I think there are many prophets who achieved the "Christ" status. We don't hear about these lives either and it makes me wonder sometimes what happened to the books and records?

If Jesus was a doormat he embraced it and would say to us, it ain't no big deal, or somehting like that.

August 16, 2004
3:13 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Who gets to say that the creator of life, the one who gave us our very breath, was anyone to be labeled with a label from our finite time we currently inhabit??

I agree with free as to the miracle of the resurrection. The beauty of faith to me is the "freeness" of it. It doesn't take you nor I nor anyone to lable it, to believe in it to give it credence -- it just is, and that's why they call it faith. Whether you believe in something you have never seen because you have never seen it or you believe the accounts of it, doesn't make it any less real because of your disbelief or belief, does it?

Labeling the master of all creation. Now there's something you don't see every day. Do you think if he was alive now people would listen to him any better, or appreciate the deity of him? No. You're right, eve, were he alive today he'd probably be labeled all sorts of things and prob even locked away. Doesn't make his message any less true for those of us who believe. And I do. With all my heart.

August 16, 2004
7:49 pm
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workinonit
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Six Foot, I know you like song lyrics and this is one of my favorite songs.

If God had a name, what would it be
And would you call it to His face
If you were faced with Him in all His glory
What would you ask if you had just one question
Yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make His way home
If God had a face, what would it look like
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that you would have to believe
In things like Heaven and in Jesus and the Saints
And all the Prophets and...
Yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

August 17, 2004
2:24 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Hey good song, Joan Osborne --- thought provoking. What if God was one of us? What would he see?

I don't know that I'd want him to catch me unawares....

August 17, 2004
8:14 pm
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workinonit
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I would love for him to catch me unawares! Man oh man, what that might reveal!!

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