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Do Gays go to Heaven or Hell?
March 20, 2009
2:24 pm
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canadian hillbilly
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I am a 44 yo gwm. I was married for a short time (to a woman of course), when I realized that I could no longer play the "Straight" game.

She died five months after I left her. I am still trying to figure out if it was an accident or not. The Death Certificate shows three prescription pain killers and two anti-anxiety meds in her system, yet the bottom line says Accidental Overdose.

I have been frequenting a club for men lately. It has many good things there: swimming pools, saunas, weight lifting equipment, etc. The thing that I enjoy most is that it is clothing optional. Sometimes, though, certain things will happen that feel good at the time, but when done I feel like a good for nothing -- (rhymes with maggot).

Otherwise I still live a good life: help others in need, forgive those who sin against me, pray, and most importantly treat everyone I meet as I wish to be treated.

So, the question in my mind is: Since I try to be good in other aspects of life, will I still go to hell for leaving my late wife and having physical relationships with other men?

March 20, 2009
2:38 pm
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hi hillbilly, there was a similiar thread if you scroll down in this Libs section titled "Needing GOD's Help". Click on that and click "view all posts". I dont think being gay is sinful at all. Most in that thread agreed. Good luck and I hope you feel better about yourself. I'm gonna say that you're just fine.

March 20, 2009
3:41 pm
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on my way
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It does not matter whether you are gay or straight, or black or white, etc. God loves you know matter what you do. And He wants you to be happy. But I have learned, that the more I know about God, who He is and how much He LOVES me, the better my life goes. I can only refer you to John 3:16 in the Bible. Pray a prayer to ask Him into your life, and He will. It is that simple. Don't beat yourself up for your weaknessess, or if you are gay, etc. God loves you for who you are..

March 20, 2009
4:10 pm
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As a Christian, that is between you and God and really isn't anyone else's business. I have gay friends and most tell me they wouldn't "choose" to be that way so I can only conclude that God made them that way.

Don't blame yourself for your ex-wife's suicide (if that is what it was) that also is between her and her god.

Bitsy

March 20, 2009
5:22 pm
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bereft
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chb, sounds like you're carrying a truck load of guilt. the Bible answers your question straight up:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:9-11

you'll hear a lot of wishful thinking from deceivers here, but "Do not be deceived." if you're a Christian, you're not a gay Christian. you are a new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

grace and peace

March 20, 2009
5:32 pm
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Terriberry
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Canadian Hillbilly,

Welcome to this site. I have posted my views on this subject, on a thread called " Terryberry discussion from the support side.". It is a very long thread, and hard to follow at times because of the amount of people involved. But, worth it in the end to get a lot of different prospectives.

Feel free to read it and join in, and comment.

May GOD be with you, as you make your own decisions on this matter.

tb

March 20, 2009
7:11 pm
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PreciousG
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If you are a believer in God and you happen to be Gay you will go to heaven and do not let anyone tell you differently.

March 20, 2009
8:55 pm
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That's not for us people to decide. I grew weary of worrying about that long ago. It's wasted energy IMO.

peace

March 21, 2009
4:36 am
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Shaney
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Who knows. And it's not for us to determine, IMO. I think that people are people, regardless of their sexual prefernece. I practice Christianity and am involved in a church where people may feel strongly one way or the other. But personally, I feel that a person's relationship with God is personal - and the life that they live is between God and the individual. In my opinion, if my God is a forgiving and all loving God, then it doesn't matter what your sexual preference is. Give people the benefit of the doubt, and be kind. There is good in everyone.

March 21, 2009
1:26 pm
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fantas
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If deep down in your heart you know that you are truthful to yourself and God (as you understand Him/Her/It) and living the best life you can, given the circumstances you are in, I'm sure you will find your next life after this one, will honor your efforts. As TB suggested, there is Guest and Terriberry suggested, there are other threads on this issue and they do go all over the place on this very sensitive issue. May you find peace within yourself~

March 21, 2009
5:48 pm
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_anonymous
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Canadian Hillbilly- You asked "Do Gays go to Heaven or Hell?" Who knows. There never has been a gay person who died that has come back and answered that question.

March 22, 2009
4:02 am
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Or a straight person for that matter.

March 24, 2009
1:12 pm
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caraway
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Hillbilly,

Sounds like what you are feeling has more to do with the act of casual sex with strangers. Some folks, gay and straight, like sex-clubs and some find it degrading. I have never been comfortable, nor felt safe, sleeping around with strangers.

Maybe you should find another gym, and start dating and spending time with someone before having sex with them?

Your wife must have her own issues and you can't take responsibility for someone's death if you didn't pull the trigger. I think most women suspect that a potential spouse is Gay before they marry, but hope they will be able to change them.

Forgive yourself and move on. Listen to what that person inside you is telling you and respect yourself enough not to go against it. (I am not judging anyone who wants to participate as long as they are careful and protected. It just isn't my thing and doesn't sound right for you.)

Cary

March 24, 2009
2:00 pm
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glittered when he walked
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No one knows for a definitive fact that heaven and hell even exist, let alone who gets admitted to either.

Really, the only important opinion for you in that matter is "what do you think?"

March 24, 2009
9:09 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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IMO, People go to heaven. someplace peaceful for them. that's it.

March 24, 2009
9:59 pm
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Since neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is a 'free choice' but an inate sexual orientation, surely there is no ethics and morality involved in sexuality expressed in any form over and above whether the sexual partners are over the age of consent as defined by law, freely consenting, not committed to another in a sexual relationship and no harm is intentionally being done to either partner, of course.

As far as meriting afterlife rewards are concerned, surely informed compassionate, caring and selfless love should be the criteria in any Divine assessment of behavior, not so much the actual outcomes. Surely the means justify the end rather than the end justifying the means??

As for quoting the bible as stating:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:9-11

Does it not also state in Exodus 35:2 that:

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death."(New American Standard Bible (©1995))

"You may work for six days, but the seventh day is a holy day of worship, a day when you don't work. It is dedicated to the LORD. Whoever does any work on this day should be put to death."(GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995))

"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."(King James Bible)

"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whoever does work therein shall be put to death."(American King James Version)

"Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of solemn rest to Jehovah: whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death."(American Standard Version)

This is not intended as an attack on the Bible or its Christian adherents. This is intended to bring another perspective to the minds of fundamentalist Christians who believe that the bible is the literal word of God. Surely fundamentalist Christians would not insist on the state issuing the death penalty for every person caught working on the sabbath?

If not then who gets to decide which parts of the bible are to be taken literally as 'gospel' and which are not?

March 26, 2009
12:57 pm
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caraway
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Tez,

Excellent points and there are so many examples like these in there. I think it is just easier for folks to gang up on Homosexuality because it is something they aren't a part of.

Early on divorce, interracial marriage, women, unwed mothers, etc. were all outcast, but when more folks participated openly the rules changed.

The Bible was written by MEN who wanted control, money, and power. There are many good lessons, but the "stories" are only there to teach; They are not laws.

The 10 Commandments are really all we need.

Cary

March 27, 2009
12:57 pm
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bereft
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Paul had a phrase he used in his letters, "i would not have you ignorant." the Mosaic Covenant was not a covenant of forgiveness, or mercy, or grace. just condemnation. no one was saved by keeping old testament law. you can't do it. if you broke one it was the same as breaking them all. you were cursed by trying to keep the law. you were saved by realizing you couldn't do it and pleading for God's mercy. and God was merciful and did forgive them because Jesus would bear their sins on the cross in the new covenant.

the Sabbath was a test of love and obedience to God. Sabbath law is not moral. but most folks kept the Sabbath to conform to the law and to realize what a mess they were in because they sinned and broken another commandment.

how did Jesus treat the Sabbath? start by reading Matthew, chapter 12. stop at verse 8. this is a claim of His deity. Jesus said, He can do anything He wants with the Sabbath because He's God! He can institute it. He can hold men to it by obligation with the death penalty, if He chooses, or He can set it aside. turn to Luke 14 to read what Jesus said about the Sabbath.

finally, in Colossians 2:16-17, Paul says, “don’t let anybody hold you to a Sabbath, that was a shadow, we now have Christ who is the substance.” there is no more binding Sabbath law. we are not under Mosaic economy; there are no more dietary laws, there are no more Sabbath laws, it is no longer necessary to observe feasts and festivals, and new moons.

Sabbath law is not moral. in 1 Cor. 6:9-11, homosexuality is lumped in with other ethical and moral sins. figure it out. don't be ignorant or deceived. you have read it; you are responsible for it. wishful thinking won't get you into heaven.

March 27, 2009
4:13 pm
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Cary,
Do you know of ANYONE who can keep the 10 Commandments all of the time?

March 29, 2009
1:51 am
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Bereft.

I am curious as to why you chose the nickname Bereft? Would you be disposed towards giving me the rationale behind your selection of that name?

On a more relevant note what are your views on the Gospel according to St. Thomas?

March 29, 2009
3:33 am
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"wishful thinking won't get you into heaven."

This phrase is unsettling to say the least.

peace

March 29, 2009
9:44 am
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bereft

Thanks for your post.

On the 27-Mar-09 you wrote:

"Sabbath law is not moral. in 1 Cor. 6:9-11, homosexuality is lumped in with other ethical and moral sins. figure it out. don't be ignorant or deceived. you have read it; you are responsible for it. wishful thinking won't get you into heaven."

But ... Bereft, I am completely bereft - I'm not even a Christian. I don't and never will fit your fundamentalist Christian mold - ever. I'm a confirmed heterosexual atheist. If your God of infinite, wisdom, power, love and mercy truly exists in direct contradiction to my beliefs, what will be my fate when I die, in your honest opinion?

Will where I choose to put my penis in this life arbitrate in my favor with your God? Or will my love or lack thereof for my fellow man and woman be of more concern then perhaps - do you think?

March 30, 2009
12:25 pm
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Hello all.....

This is one of the funniest things I've read and a favorite to those who believe that homosexuality is against the Laws of God (dum, dum, dum, dummmmmm)

Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did....

Dr Laura, Homosexuality and the Book of Leviticus

Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

March 30, 2009
12:45 pm
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Bereft is a poem by Robert Frost.

Where had I heard this wind before
Change like this to a deeper roar?
What would it take my standing there for,
Holding open a restive door,
Looking down hill to a frothy shore?
Summer was past and day was past.
Somber clouds in the west were massed.
Out in the porch's sagging floor,
leaves got up in a coil and hissed,
Blindly struck at my knee and missed.
Something sinister in the tone
Told me my secret must be known:
Word I was in the house alone
Somehow must have gotten abroad,
Word I was in my life alone,
Word I had no one left but God.

the gospel of thomas is a pseudepigrapha (book rejected by all) work from the early second century. it is a mixture of authentic sayings of Jesus and gnostic teachings. gnostics believed spiritual union with God was just for the elite and only the enlightened few are supposed to be able understand it. the true Gospel says, "But WHOSOEVER keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected; by this know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:3).

March 30, 2009
1:55 pm
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Tez, it matters very little what my honest opinion is. speaking of Himself, Jesus said: "He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18). is it important to know who Jesus claims to be? Jesus said, "If you do not believe that I am the one that I claim to be, then you will indeed die in your sins and where I go, you’ll never come" (John 8:21, 24). to die in one's sin means that upon death you are thrown into the fires of Hell, because you still carry your sins with you. John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who doesn’t obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

there is nothing you can or can't do to merit favor with God. that is what every other religion in the world believes: you must do works to please God. Christianity is a personal relationship with the one true God. you are saved by grace through faith in Him who calls. In Ephesians 2 it says, "For by grace are you saved through faith and that is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast." salvation is a gift of God.

do you understand, Tez? you are condemned already. unless you believe that Jesus is who He claims to be, you will go to hell.

grace and peace

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