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Creation came 'from nothing,' not God: Stephen Hawking
September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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This
just came in today:

Creation came 'from nothing,' not God: Stephen
Hawking

So first he used
the term 'God', back in 1988, in book, the Brief History of
Time:

and now he's
saying in his new book, The Grand Design:

So people say:
* Who created the laws of gravity?

Well, does the law
of gravity have to be created? Ok so then, why doesn't God have to
be created? Why does HE get a free ticket? Yea.

If God exists, why
doesn't he put 100 mile wide loud speakers all around the Earth
saying "Look people, I EXIST, stop arguing! ARGHH. From now on all
atheists will have 2 noses, and will lose them when they believe in
me."

There ya go,
problem solved. Instead he sits there silently as if he never
existed.

God may exist, who
knows, but certainly all religions are false. None of them are from
God.

September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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hey
Tez! You like to surprise eh! whats new?

September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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Whats
new?

I find this
question to deep and difficult to answer.

September 2, 2010
12:00 am
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What
happened, well, I could start with myself. I discovered I've had
sinus issues for many years and that has destroyed my quality of
life and caused me exhaustion and crushed my thinking abilities
(memory, processing, abstract thinking, learning,
concentration).

I'm getting it
fixed now, going to a really good doctor. They better fix it or
else.

Same story with
girls. I gotta get relationship counseling. I told myself if the
next girl doesnt work out I'm going to get that fixed too. I also
moved to a new place, so there have been some positive changes in
my life even if they're not real big as compared to my
peers.

I cant begin to
tell you how badly my lack of sleep has affected me, its like going
from sunlight to a very dimly lit room where I can barely see and
breathe. Its aweful. But a week more and I'll get on
medicines.

So whats new with
you. I'm like my father, I can start with a fresh plate.

I met a girl,
she's so cute. I think I scared her off with my over-excitement as
usual. I told myself I should wait to talk to her until I get
myself fixed so I'm in my best shape.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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Time
will tell.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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formerly
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God
is outside of the realm of His creation, therefore He is not
subject to the Creation's laws in his realm. That's a no
brainer.

As or his other
stuff, i don't read it. I haven't gotten to all of the books i had
in my collection yet, and What Hawking I have read is
enough.

Wasn't he the one
who said that alians might not be friendly,and than gave a reason
that we saw in the movies. I forgot which movie, because I forgot
the exact phrase. I just remember that it was in the news as if it
was some new information.

September 3, 2010
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@formerly

On 3-Sep-10, you
wrote:

"God is outside
of the realm of His creation, therefore He is not subject to the
Creation's laws in his realm. That's a no brainer."

Would you kindly
expand upon why you consider your statement to be a "no
brainer"?

September 3, 2010
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You'r
kidding . How do you expand on that. Its plane as it is.

Maybe
gotquestions.net could expand for you. I have homework to
do

sorry, but I don't
know what you want to knwo.

September 3, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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formerly,

I'm sure you know
what he's asking but it's tough to expand on an unsubstantiated
claim so, I understand why you would choose to avoid the
question.

September 3, 2010
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bevdee
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:~)

September 3, 2010
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bevdee
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btw,
Craig, I proofread that. :~)

September 3, 2010
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Hi
formerly

>> God is
outside of the realm of His creation, therefore He is not subject
to the Creation's laws in his realm. That's a no
brainer.

A 'no brainer',
you say eh? Pun intended?

No, God is not
outside the realm. Thats why I said, why does God get a free ticket
for the "Who created God?" question. He doesnt.

Also, God may
exist but all religions are false. None of them are from
God.

SO glad that
Hawkings came out as an atheist. Its never too late to be saved.
Praise the Black Holes! Glory be to the Holy Black Matter and
anti-matter.

To talk about the
interesting issue of aliens:

>> Wasn't he
the one who said that aliens might not be friendly

What they all say
is this: there are more chances of aliens existing than God
existing. Why, because we know from tonnes of facts that evolution
is true, but we have no proof that some Holy thing created the
whole Universe. So its possible other life forms (aliens) have
evolved on a planet (just like we have).

So on the surface
to a God believer the statement sounds funny but its
not.

September 3, 2010
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September 4, 2010
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StronginHim77
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This
reminds me of the old joke about a scientist who comes to God and
says, "We don't need you anymore, we figured out how to create life
without you."

God looks puzzled
and says, "OK – show me how you do it."

The scientist
starts, "First you take a little dirt..."

God interrupts and
says, "Hey, wait a minute – get your own dirt."

September 4, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Hi
G-G. :0)

I haven't read a
lot of Hawking or keep up with his theories but i have revisited
Darwin.

U mentioned Darwin
in your last post to me in another thread.There is a new Nature Of
Things documentary about Darwin and it sparked my interest to learn
more about his actual life, not just his theories. He was obviously
a tortured genious who's bravery was impressive. He took a HUGE
risk exploring his theories at a time when the church, state and
science where all one ( Victorian England, YIKES!) and was up
against enormous oppostion.

I am posting this
because i have been reading Eckhart Tolles views and it has brought
me to a place where i am questioning the whole pascifist movement.
It's almost like onemust remove a part of their brain to move
beyond our conditioning, upbringing and flaws.

( geez forgive me
that i bring this back to "earth". Hawking is a theoretical
physicist. I'm have all these questions that spwan more
questions!LOL)

Although his (
Tolles) theories about livng in the "now" are usfull when dealing
with our flawed family histories, pain bodies interfering with
progress toward contentment, somehow it just doesn't seem to "fit"
with reality as a whole. How can one deny what they come from and
whats around us? The mechanics that went into their growth up to
the point of adulthood?

I really believe
early childhood development sets the tone and it is VERY difficult
( even impossible) to change where a person comes from, depending
on the support they have in their adult lives.

Support and
re-education are needed.

For instance. I am
a big beleiver in evolution and the laws of nature. Any creatures
offspring is first expected to be genetically sound ( without
deformity) then it is up to the parent(s) to teach them how to
survive. ANY lack of nurturing, gaps in survival education(
grooming, learning how to find the proper sustanance, hunting,
migrating due to weather and food abunadance etc.) Most animal
parenting is gentle yet the elements of nature are brutal.An animal
parent must be hands on all the way or their offspring will not
have the tools to survive.

There is NO
pretense in nature but people are "full of it". HA!

What happens to
the offspring of an animal if it wasn't provided the proper social
and survival education?What happens if it isn't born
"healthy"?

Humans on the
other hand can fall short of nurturing their young. Do we really
promote good health? How can these beings grow into self sufficient
adults when they lack the proper tools to take care of themselves
and others.

It seems us humans
are constantly trying to reinvent the laws of nature and bring
great burdens upon ourselves.

Our avoidance and
fear of death. Our miscontrued notions of spirituality. If we
adhere to the laws of nature it is cited as crulety and possible
insanity?

I have a friend
who beleives we are the product of mixed DNA. Alien intervention.
She states our human flaws ( hairlessness, spiritual directions,
disconnect from nature, physical deformities) are due to this mixed
DNA. That half the population has alien DNA, and this is why we
feel our discomfort, and detachment from the world around us and we
feel a need to change it.

Is this why we are
so divided , evenly, in our pursuits?

Interesting to
ponder.

Welcome back
(((guest guest)))

I'm glad you'r
still working on fixing yourself and are livening up the place.
;0)

September 4, 2010
12:00 am
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hi
MSG

>> There is
NO pretense in nature but people are "full of it". HA!

Exactly. I was
watching something about a guy named Derek from the UK, an autistic
guy who is considered a savant in music. He can play back a complex
piece of music after hearing it once and remembers tonnes and
tonnes of tunes.

If you see a video
(link) of
him you'll see, this guy is pure, he doesnt have the fake stuff
that every adult has. He's lost in his own world and enjoys it a
lot inspite of being blind and autistic. Its an inspiration to me
to be true to myself and not care about what people think. Thats a
BIG problem for me. yea. The human brain is amazing.

So thats one human
who hasnt gotten "spoilt". Everyone else got some kinda hangup and
"not being themselves" in various situations to various extents,
intentionally or unintentially. Any yea its cool how he is. I want
to watch more of those videos.

>> I really
believe early childhood development sets the tone and it is VERY
difficult ( even impossible) to change where a person comes from,
depending on the support they have in their adult lives.

I believe the same
yes. A person generally doesnt change. I wonder if I'll ever
change. Its going to be a struggle, being brought up by a psycho
abusive evil mother and a coward naive father. Maybe I can combine
the courage of my mom to do evil things with the simpleness of my
father to get something good.

Your friend is
wrong about the alien DNA! Ahhh, the things people do to try to
explain the world to themselves.

The biggest and
only important challenge for me is, not having a wife, not having
kids, a house or a nice car or job but - to overcome all the bad
stuff that I got from my childhood, break away from the stupid dumb
society we live in (which tells us we must follow culture and
society to be acceptable and ideal), to find myself, to be myself
in all situations and to use my brain fully and to do something
useful in life that effects a lot of people in a positive
way.

To be myself and
give a damn about what people think of me, THAT is a BIG challenge
for me. I know there's a lot of people who are a lot more
emotionally healthy as far as being themselves, they got the right
parenting and background. Its a challenge to break away from bad
parents. Atleast for one I'm not getting on the culture train and
doing what they think I should do, because that would be living
blind. (Derek's blindness was different though, that was
literal).

September 5, 2010
12:00 am
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andii
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But
it IS a no brainer. the human mind thinks and analyzes linearly, in
four dimensions,but the world we exist in is not linear and
probably has many more dimensions. Ever see a mobius strip? There's
no beginning, no end. It's not linear. There's only one side. It's
one-dimensional, not 4.

there's actually
no such thing as a line. ALL objects possess curvature. there's not
beginning and there will never be an end.

It all just IS.
Always WAS. Always will BE.

hmmmmm

September 5, 2010
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bevdee
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I
looked up some definitions of no-brainer. You know - just to be
sure.

It means requires
little mental effort.

September 6, 2010
12:00 am
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@Formerly

Definition of
NO-BRAINER from Merriam-Webster Dictionary : "something that
requires a minimum of thought" .

Formerly, you
wrote:

"God is outside
of the realm of His creation, therefore He is not subject to the
Creation's laws in his realm. That's a no brainer."

Then you replied
to my asking you nicely to expand upon why you think this, you
wrote:

"You'r kidding
. How do you expand on that. Its plane as it is. "

Let me now explain
to you why I asked you to "kindly expand upon why you consider
your statement to be a "no brainer"?" My words.

To "expand on
that" , this statement of yours contains a premise:"God is
outside of the realm of His creation ..." and a conclusion:
"therefore He is not subject to the Creation's laws in his
realm."

Your premise is an
assertion that claims:"God is" (A) AND " outside
of"(NOT) - that is not in - "the realm of His
creation"(B). The truth or falsehood of 'A' AND NOT 'B', that
alone is highly debatable; a debate that would require considerable
mental effort to win.

Let's consider the
debate about whether 'A' is TRUE; that is, that God exists. Winning
the debate to prove that 'A' is true would take a massive mental
effort. In that debate I would rather take the position that 'A' is
false.

Defining the realm
of the Christian God's creation is somewhat of a nightmare in
itself - certainly not a no-brainer. For example Did the Christian
God create Satan? Is Satan within God's realm of Creation or
outside it? This question certainly is not a no-brainer.

Therefore to
define what lies outside of the realm in question, by association,
is just as mind boggling - certainly not a no-brainer.

Now to the
conclusion 'C', that "therefore He is not subject to the Creation's
laws in his realm." Debating that this conclusion is not a
'non-sequiter', is going to require considerable mental
effort.

I would certainly
not consider your statement a no-brainer. Perhaps a thoroughly
indoctrinated Christian might, without any reflection and critical
assessment, assert that it is a no-brainer. If you add this
qualification then I would concede that point to you - if it
helps.

September 6, 2010
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G_G

People that are
born with disabilites or deformities learn to allow the healthy
senses to compensate. A child that has developmental disabilities
is told they can do anything they set their mind to with the proper
parenting and support.

"Yes I can" opens
the door to discovery and creating.

So many of us who
were bombarde with "you Can't!" in our early childhood have a lot
of deprogramming to tackle.

"A person
generally doesnt change. I wonder if I'll ever change. Its going to
be a struggle, being brought up by a psycho abusive evil mother and
a coward naive father. Maybe I can combine the courage of my mom to
do evil things with the simpleness of my father to get something
good."

Generally doesn't
change but we can change the things that make our lives difficult.
First by admitting the faults(s) then looking to other sources for
answers, and changing our inner dialog. Training the mind to think
and do differently.

"Your friend is
wrong about the alien DNA! Ahhh, the things people do to try to
explain the world to themselves."

I wouldn't tell
her that. It would hurt her feelings and it isn't important to
right fight with the people u love. I just listen to her and ask
questions. Her beleif is no attack on my well being or anyones
really. Besides i don't know where or how we came about besides
what evolution offers. Gaps exist in most theories of lifes origins
tho.

"The biggest and
only important challenge for me is, not having a wife, not having
kids, a house or a nice car or job but - to overcome all the bad
stuff that I got from my childhood, break away from the stupid dumb
society we live in (which tells us we must follow culture and
society to be acceptable and ideal), to find myself, to be myself
in all situations and to use my brain fully and to do something
useful in life that effects a lot of people in a positive way." Why
would u want that conventional almost religiously dictated life? Is
that really what u want or is it something u missed growing up? Now
u have troubles with relationships. To make others feel comfortable
u first need to feel comfortable with yourself. Find a way to let
the past go so it doesn't sabotage what u want now.

U can be a good
uncle, or example to a friends kids by being generous for
now.

U can be yourself
but that also involves others G_G. Not everyone is trapped by
conventional social rulesets but everyone needs to consider others
feelings, and identity when it comes to forming lasting
bonds.

You're at least
exploring how to "fix" yourself. You are going to change for the
better. YOU CAN!

Be
well!

September 6, 2010
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Well,
fisrt I need to fix my sinuses that have robbed me of sleep, which
has robbed me of everything in the last 4 years. I still cant
believe this has happened. Its a shocking tragedy to me.

I know the
mistakes I make. I've made mistakes with every single single girl I
saw or met. I can make a list. Maybe I will after I get
well.

I know I have
amazing powers of learning and moving on to places no one usually
does and that requires courage and wisdom. Not to be arrogant but
I've done a few things which required me to ignore what society and
culture say. One I left religion and I used to be SO religious
before (so its not like I wasnt into religion to begin with). Two,
I found out my mother had done horrible things all her life and I
recently confronted my entire family over it and I said "Own up to
it or I'm getting out of the family". And I did - I have no family
now, which is OK. I do the right thing. Everything else comes
second.

Almost no one does
these kinds of things. SOO, I'm hoping once I get well, get my
sleep back, I'll be able to "learn" and make decisions in two
important areas, what else could they be for be: career and a
girlfriend.

If I can conquer
that, I know I'll have moved on and really 'changed', which I'm
right now agnostic about - whether we can really change or not. My
biggest challenge is to be true to myself infront of
people.

Mmmmm, yea. I'll
have to see. That vision of me being successful is very faint but
it exists. I'll have to see.

I've taken 3 very
big decisions in life that required radical thinking and a big
effort to get away from the 'old'. I have to do it again now for my
career and GF stuff, yea.

See how I repeat
myself. I'm disorganized. Its sleep deprivation. My head used to be
so clear before.

But now I'll be
ok, yeaaa. Atleast I wont be letting this go on for many more
years. I lost 4 years, its not that bad. Its like being under
10,000 feet of dark water, cant think or do anything.

Well lunch is
ready!

September 6, 2010
12:00 am
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sdesigns
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Did
you make your own lunch, GG?

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