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Consciousness outside of the human brain? Part II
November 3, 2006
6:08 pm
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truthBtold
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Hi Tez,

Thanks for your curiosity.

I refer you to another thread entitled..."How is it that..." as a precursor to my answer.....

will pick up from you there......

November 4, 2006
12:39 am
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I wanna see the equation Tez.

What equals what?

free

November 4, 2006
6:30 am
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Hi truthBtold.

You took a crack at unified field equations.

Sheesh it's worth a try, isn't it.

Any luck?

Also, how does it connect with the consciousness thing?

November 4, 2006
3:21 pm
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Hi tuthBtold,

I am also curious about your equations.

I'm more curious though about your final interpretation of your work.

One thing that has bugged me about Unified Field Theory is: what if it turns out the natural forces being described are not actually "unifiable."

Wouldn't hat would be annoying. And it could lead to extravagant and false models.

Im also curious what your work might have to say to say about the big bang, inflation, symmetry breaking, proton decay, and time irreversibility.

November 5, 2006
6:00 pm
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Free.

You said:

"I wanna see the equation Tez.

What equals what? "

I think you may have mixed me up with truthBtold.

I am incapable of putting forward such a theory let alone describing it mathematically.

Sorry.

November 7, 2006
5:53 pm
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Hi all,

Yes, I have an equasion (I use color in the equasion) that I came up with some years ago - simply because I wanted something to "explain it all" for my own well being.

It isn't easy to describe - but the precursor has to do with going back to the "basics" and to the actual "logic" of mathematics we learned in grade school....that 1 +1 = 2....(but - does it really?) Yet, directly contradictory to what we learned in biology that our cells actually "multiply" through "division."

So, herein, I have pondered this for over 35 years now.

First and formost, I give more creedence to the reality of biology, secondly, to the description of reality found in mathematics...being careful not to confuse the actual map with the territory....if you know what I mean?

1+1=2, to my mind - just isn't so.

One is simply One. It occupies it's own place in space/time - therefore, the value of "one" is simply what it is. You can remove yourself enough to the point to come up with eloquent equasions and the meaning behind such words/language as "numbers" - but in the end, it never really jived to my mind.

So, all that being said...my equasion for a "Unified Field Theory" (as it were)is that: 1+1+1. Only, The first 1 is blue and the second 1 is yellow and the third 1 is green.

Has worked for me and makes me sleep good at night.

Does this makes sense to anyone else?

ALL THINGS considered!!!

November 7, 2006
8:24 pm
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OK - correction all...I just re-read my earlier response and realized that I made a mistake in upper/lower case values.

The actual equasion is: 1+1=1.

Since, there is REALLY no such thing as two, because each entity occupies a different place in time/space.

Think about it....there is NO SUCH thing as two......not REALLY!!!!

Hence...the "Unified Field."

OK - it's a work in progress - but a serious and long pondered theory no less!!!!

Any thoughts?

November 7, 2006
8:54 pm
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Umm, I'm not getting anything about gravity from that equation...

November 7, 2006
11:16 pm
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Like I said - it IS a theory.

The thing here is to consider all things...and yes, that includes gravity.

Gravity - to my mind....is a notion.

And "all notions" are to be considered in the present sense.

Gravity is indeed a notion. A very pliable and measurable notion.....but - a "notion" and "experience" none the less.

Part of the grand scheme of unification theory....not to be upset which - that - which simply is....is to realize and apprecaite that which once was..and as continues to be...but not to be confused with the most common of denominator of one....THAT...which just simply IS......TO BE.....has no constaints or obligations to other sources that claim to be "in charge" given all that they might concede - but in reality have no earthly idea on "how to be" simply - and will no doubt concede..to the simple consensus of that which will be......the party of freedom - Let Republicans conceed - a notewothy defeat in all that exceed...all the hopes of tomorrow - no matter whom will conceive....our hopes for tomorrow, hopefull ill-conceived -let there, for ever what it's worth///PLEASE - no matter what....Please - LET - -- - Freedom Ring....and stand tall - all of the soldiers - whom lives have been shed - and to whom I am most - equally stand - amongst those that were wiling to give soul and heart, I stand so proudly...in wake of these folks...and know in my heart - that they are equally focused - on the pure and meaningful hopes democracy...but were never willing to shed -blood in the midst - political hyprocipsy.

November 8, 2006
4:46 pm
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truthBtold

Is this last post of yours the right hemisphere of your brain trying to express itself in the language of the left?

Is there a deep and meaningful vision of your reality that compels you to grapple with mere words from a totally inadequate language this reality to describe?

Or is it all 'gobblldeegook' - just a prank in order to take the piss?

I'm just a wee bit more than a little confused here. Please help me out.

PS 'wee', 'piss'? not punny!

November 9, 2006
6:21 pm
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Tez,

Sorry for blurring the politics in my last post - (not sure where that came from myself......)

Anyway, No, it's not "gobbledeegook" nor a prank "to take this piss?" (Not quite sure what that means.)

I am both a very creative and analytical person - which is probably why I tried to come up with some sort of equasion which satisifies both the right and left hemispheres of my gray matter.

November 9, 2006
7:21 pm
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truthBtold

Nothing to be sorry about. I think I understand.

November 9, 2006
8:44 pm
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truthBtold,

Ah. Maybe you were being metaphorical when speaking of Unified Field Theory?

I was thinking about the attempt to be able to express the basic forces as a single force.

Like electric force and magnetic force used to be considered totally different, but now we understand that they are really two ways of understandin "electromagnatism." Then, electric forces were considered to be very different from the Weak nuclear force, but now we know that they are really the "electroweak" force.

I think it does have some relevance to the topic at hand, though.

It has to do wth connectedness.

The reason, apparently that the forces we know of look the way they do today has to do with the very early history of the universe--sometime between the big bang and the early inflationary stage of the universe.

The theory is that All space and time and energy used to be compressed into a point, and then spacetime itself underwent a super fast expansion, an "inflation" that had to happen for the universe to get cool enough for basic particles, much less atoms to exist.

But before that happened, the universe was very different from how it is now.

But what we have now came from what was before. And understanding what we have now can be helped by understanding how things were before.

Yes, I am building up to something here...thinking out loud here.

November 10, 2006
12:41 pm
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WD,

Interesting points you make. Something to ponder.

I agree about the connectedness part completely!!!

I also believe in a type of non-linear explanations/theories.

One of the books I mention on another post is called "Art & Physics - Parallel Visions in Space, Time & Light" by Leonard Shlain.

It is really a very interesting read.

The back cover describes the book as such: "Art interprets the visible world, physics charts its unseen workings - making the two realms seem completely opposed. But in Art & Physics, Leonard Shlain tracks their breakthroughs side by side throughout history to reveal and astonishing correlation of visions.

From the classical Greek sculptors to Andy Warhol and Jasper Johns, and from Aristotle to Einstein, artists have foreshadowed the discoveries of scientists, such as Monet and Cezanne intuited the coming upheaval in physics that Einstein would initiate. In this lively and colorful narrative, Leonard Shlain explores how artistic breakthroughs could have prefigured the visionary insights of physicists on so many occasions throughout history.

Provocative and original, Art & Physics is a seamless integration of the romance of art and the drama of science....and exhilarating history of ideas."

November 14, 2006
9:51 pm
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Alright. Connectedness.

I am taking a long walk, making a sketch of not exactly an argument...

My "not quite an argument" is this: It is possible to construct a computer that is composed of every subatomic particle in the universe. That is the parts list for the computer I propose. And I speculate that it has already been built, and is currently running programs, and processing information, and maybe even running the "software of consciousness."

I also propose that this computer is a naturally occuring phenomenon, a natural consequence of what modern science describes as the birth of our Universe.

I propose: Give me a big bang and I can (as a thought experiment) build a computer, a BRAIN, where every subatomic paricle in the universe is performing calculations for that brain. Without any resorting to magic or superstition or religion.

That's the "easy" part.

For this trick, all I need is a belief that there is a such a thing as quantum entanglement.

We already know that every particle in the universe tugs on every other particle by way of gravity. Depending on how the Unified Field Theory search comes out we might discover other forces also connecting every particle in the universe.

But until then, we know that there is (probably) a thing called quantum entanglement.

What I meane by "we" "know" is that it is a pretty mainstream scientific belief now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.....tanglement

The reader's digest version is that when two things are close together and influence each other, when there condition is "synched" that they continue to influence each other even at a distance.

That principle has been used to build the world's smallest computer, out of a single molecule of chloroform.

And it is computer that does things that ordinary computers can't do.

November 16, 2006
5:09 pm
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Saw a documentary on TV yesterday called Shamans of the Amazon.

The shaman interviewed uses the ayahuasca plant in his shamanic rituals. The drug(DMT) is very effective in disrupting brain functions. The effect is to expand consciousness to the point where there is connectivity to the complete universe.

The interviewer had his pregnant wife with him and both he and his wife were feeling ill. The shaman set up a shamanic ritual for diagnosing the causes of their illness and the sex of their unborn child. The shaman said that both of them had amoeba in their stomachs, the male interviewer had a damaged spine and the baby was a boy.

After getting back to Australia, both the interviewer and his wife visited a conventional GP. Subsequent tests showed that indeed both had amoeba within their stomachs. The guy was diagnosed with a spinal condition. The baby was born a boy!!!

It seems that after taking ayahuasca (pronounced iawaska)telepathic states are induced that facilitate the shaman to see into the mind, brain and the body of others with such insights as to diagnose illnesses accurately.

Apparently western labs have their research scientists picking the brains of these Amazon shaman looking to use these insights and the plants recommended for the patient's treatment. Apparently plant analysis has led to some remarkable discoveries in the past.

In addition when murder has been committed Amazon shamans can use ayahuasca induced trances to establish telepathically who is the murderer very accurately.

It appears that consciousness can transcend brain functioning during ayahuasca induced trances and permeate the universe, even distant planets!!!!!

At a quantum level, this may explain the effect that the observer has upon the observed.

Perhaps, though interdependent, consciousness is not a function of the brain at all but the converse - the 'material' world including the brain a function of consciousness. Even though this idea is abhorrent to the materialist, this is hardly a new concept. The Mind Only School of Buddhist thought maintains this to be true.

November 16, 2006
5:27 pm
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"One of the lessons of shamanic work is that of our deep unity with the creative force of the universe. This gnosis heals psychophysical blockages that have hindered us, it dissolves toxic shames and double binds under a sense of wisdom and love we may not have known we had in us." ... Andy Anonymous

November 16, 2006
6:44 pm
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>> After getting back to Australia, both the interviewer and his wife visited a conventional GP. Subsequent tests showed that indeed both had amoeba within their stomachs. The guy was diagnosed with a spinal condition. The baby was born a boy!!! < < Ok these are hoaxes. Also there's a huge chance of success. There's a 50% chance that he'll be right. They dont tell you the rest of the 50% times he got the sex wrong. If that Shamanic or whatever has any real powers, he can can try Randi's challenge and win $1 million dollars showing these kinds of powers. If nothing can be reproduced under scientific conditions, e.g. if the Shaman cannot do this when being studied critically, then he's a hoax. Remember the 19 or 20 year old Canadian guy as well who claims he can go into people's bodies in the room and heal them. There's all kinds of hoax stories like these going around.

November 17, 2006
4:09 am
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guest guest Hi

Dont you believe in back to basic spirituality? not for personal gain ie material possesions?

November 17, 2006
5:34 pm
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"If nothing can be reproduced under scientific conditions, e.g. if the Shaman cannot do this when being studied critically, then he's a hoax."

If red is not white then it can't be any other color either? Uhmmmm!

November 17, 2006
6:30 pm
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I do understand what you are saying BUT..... we can acheive things consciously outsid ethe huma brain and spirit for the greater good not to win the lottery ......... Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? If we dont believe in that what else is there to beleive in?

November 17, 2006
6:47 pm
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hi dereka,

sorry I'm an atheist. I like fire, I mean hellfire. i was a devout and honest believer for the beginning part of my life.

November 17, 2006
7:20 pm
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I do not follow religion though GG I just wanna get back to that place where I did believe as a child!!!Do you know what I mean? the stories and the hope in a bigger thing!!!!! If I dont believe I have no passion and thats when I become quite depressed.What were you devouting ?

November 17, 2006
8:46 pm
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"Lama Govinda, member of a Tibetan Buddhist order, says of Tibetans:

...[They] rely a great deal on their dream consciousness, and they are seldom proved wrong in their judgement.

Besides dreams they have many other methods of contacting the deeper layers of their mind: meditation, trance, certain forms of oracles, and various natural and "supernatural" (psychic) portents. All these methods have been tried out for millenniums, and their results have been found sufficiently satisfactory to guide people in their daily live. Tibetans would be greatly surprised if one would doubt these facts, which are matters of practical experience and have nothing to do with beliefs or theories. To them the attempts of modern psychologists, who try to "prove" extrasensory perception by scientific methods, would appear crude and laughable, one might just as well try to prove the existence of light which is visible to all but the blind. The circumstances under which these modern experiments are carried out are in themselves the greatest hinderance to their success. In their attempt at "objectivity" they exclude the emotional and the spiritually directive elements of the human mind, without which no state of real absorbtion or concentration can be created. Their very attitude bars the doors of psychic perception. "

****NB*****:

"Their very attitude bars the doors of psychic perception. "

With blindsight, Randi and others like him demand 'proof' for what only completely detached and concentrated consciousness can know.

- Tez

November 17, 2006
10:12 pm
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This is the acid test for anything that purports to make more sense than what is obvious - how do believers of that philosophy gain from it? They're not gaining in anything.

So the failure of the acid test proves that the belief system (in this case, detached and concentrated conciousness and anything on this lines).

This is the same acid test that is applied to religion in general (Christianity, Islam etc). Do believers of religion gain in any significant way? They dont. Religions thus fail this acid test and are no use and thus, hoaxes.

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