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Consciousness outside of the human brain? Part II
October 31, 2006
3:21 am
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Worried_Dad
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I am not really looking for debate on this issue.

In fact, I declare debate to be more or less forbidden on this thread.

This thread is a dance floor, not a battleground.

I am more looking for speculation.

Speculative science. Science fiction.

And theological expressions of hope and belief also welcome.

And dreams, and pure fantasy.

Scepticism, also welcome. If the sceptic is a good dancer.

Personal attacks. Not welcome.

I wish this thread to be a playground of mind and heart and imagination.

October 31, 2006
6:12 pm
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ghosties!

I had one living with me.

Some pretty trippy experiences.

free

October 31, 2006
7:04 pm
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Speculative 'evidence' for the phenomenon of consciousness beyond 'normal' brain functioning:

1. Apparitions of dead soldiers, killed on the battlefield just prior to appearing to their mothers telling them that they have been killed but that everything is OK now.

2. Mental telepathy

3. Personal meditation experiences.

4. Ghosts and poltergeists.

5. Ouija board experiences.

6. Out of body experiences.

7. Verified information gained during near death experiences.

8. Clairvoyance.

9. Highly accurate prophesy.

10. Partial Disconnection of consciousness from the brain via the use of scientifically controlled administration of psychedelic drugs such as peyote, LSD, mescaline etc.

11. Documented and verified experiences during 'astral traveling'.

12. Deep mystical insights had and expounded by great masters.

13. Hypnotic regression studies coupled with verifiable research confirming veracity of that revealed.

14. Genuine seance reports.

15. The great body of work by Professor Charles Tart and other eminent academics in the largely underfunded field of consciousness studies.

October 31, 2006
7:13 pm
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How is external conciousness explained in the terms of physics?

Neurons and other related stuff are doing the thinking in the brain and making conciousness possible.

But for external conciousness, whats making this possible?

Have any physical instruments been able to detect this 'external conciousness' ?

There is no evidence, Just belief.

I was watching a show on real ghosts on Discovery channel and they showed a girl walking in the house with strange sounds all around her. It sounded like Rats to me.

If external conciousness or anything on that line exists, how come:

- we dont have any physical proof of it?

- it mysteriously "disappears" when being studied carefuly for recording of evidence.

October 31, 2006
7:48 pm
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Choices

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with an impure mind
And trouble will follow you
As the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart.

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with a pure mind
And happiness will follow you
As your shadow, unshakable.

"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Live with such thoughts and you live in hate.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Abandon such thoughts, and live in love.

In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

~Buddha
The Dhammapada

October 31, 2006
8:41 pm
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I dont get it. We dont have Ox's and Carts anymore. We have hybrids doing 50 miles per gallon.

So, how does this quote apply for today?

October 31, 2006
9:15 pm
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I suppose this one also relates to immortality, reincarnation, heaven hell and whatever is in between.

Science fiction has worked this one quite a bit. One of my Favorites is Phillip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld" series of novels.

The premise:

Waay back when neanderthals still lived, aliens visit the earth and install an exotic recording device that records the entire life of every human being--their bodies, DNA, their thoughts, experiences, memory, everything.

Eventually human beings become extinct.

And some time later, absolutely everyone who ever lived on earth wakes up on a strange planet along the banks of a river a million miles long. Their bodies are all resotred to that of healthy young adulthood. Imagine their dismay.

Alice Liddel, Sir Richard Burton, Cyrano DeBergerac, Mark Twain, Elvis Presley, Jack the Ripper, and lots of other historical figures get to have adventures together. Oh, Sufism ends up being an important plot element.

Where you wake up along the river is determined by what age you were born in. The Neanderthals wake up at one end of the river, with the bronze agers a little further up river, and the 22nd century people at the opposite end of the river.

The series of novels are about groups of people who try to figure out "why has this happened."

Turns out to be some wierd alien experiment in ethics or something.

To me, the fascinating aspect of the premise is that sufficiently advanced technology might be able to provide a cure for death.

The other fascinating part is how the people react to their strange situation. Naturally, they are pretty much the same as they were on Earth. All of the nastiest and also best parts of human nature are there.

November 1, 2006
4:51 pm
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Worried_Dad
31-Oct-06

"I suppose this one also relates to immortality, reincarnation, heaven hell and whatever is in between."

A valid supposition, IMHO. For existence of the basis of consciousness to be independent of the brain, it has to survive brain death to either 'reincarnate' or to be immortal. I am not implying that I believe death does not change our conscious state - I believe that it does. Of course the concept of reincarnation can be perceived differently by different religions. The Hindi concept is markedly different to the Buddhist concept. I guess that topic is for another thread.

November 1, 2006
5:29 pm
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I'm gonna watch for that thread, Tez. I want to learn more about that.

Bevdee

November 1, 2006
5:36 pm
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Has anyone read any of Edgar Cayce's writings? He supposedly a great psychic who could cure people with incurable diseases.

Cayce maintained that aliens came to earth eons ago. He claims that some 'renegade' horny aliens, lacking female partners, copulated with primates prior to departing from the earth therein producing the crossbreeds that were our ancestors. These renegades incurred the wrath of the 'decent' aliens who shunned them. According to Cayce, these renegade aliens remained behind with their female 'partners'(chimps, gorrillas, orangatans?) building Adlantis and perishing with same in the great cataclysm that followed. Cayce maintained that these events were the basis for many of the biblical story in genesis of Adam and Eve being kicked out of the garden of Eden as well as the great flood of Noah's Ark vintage.

Fantasy?? I don't know. I admit to the possibility - that's as far as I would go. I prefer to speculate that we as a species evolved through 'natural' selection rather than either natural or divine intervention.

As far as consciousness goes, I choose to both speculate and believe that all sentient beings are conscious. While some sentient beings have 'self'-consciousness like us humans, others don't.

November 1, 2006
5:38 pm
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Hi BevDee.

I'll watch for that thread too.

November 1, 2006
5:41 pm
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bevdee
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Ok here I go with some wild theorising- are you familiar with the bible's Nephalim? I always thought those "angels" were supernatural beings - Just something to ponder-

November 1, 2006
7:46 pm
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What I've read about Edgar Cayce was that he was a healer. He would sleep on his books and awake knowing the information on the texts pages. I belive the title was A river runs through? It was back in the 70's when I read it and my memory is getting worse.

November 1, 2006
7:49 pm
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Ok, looked it up it is called There is a River 🙂 Close enough 😉

November 1, 2006
9:10 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I tend to not like believing in spooky stuff. But darned, I've lived through some of it, and heard lots of stories.

I'm just left with the sneaking suspicion that there is more to the world than just the forces and mechanisms currently known to science. Maybe future science will know more.

November 1, 2006
9:15 pm
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Here's a story.

My roommate was feeling crappy for days. Had a fever, but no other symptoms. I had an MD friend come to the house and examine him, listened to his lungs, thumped his back, etc. The doc said he couldn't find any reason for him to be feeling badly, but come in to the office tomorrow for x-rays.

Next, we had him examined by
the Good Reverend C., who is a body worker, and a healer.

Her examination was conducted thusly: She stood a behind my sick friend at a bit more than arms length, and passed her hands over his back at a distance of about one foot. Instantly she said "You have a hot spot on your lower right lung."

Next day, my sick friend got e-rays, which revealed a lung infection, walking pneumonia, and the focus of infection was a little hot spot in his lower right lung.

What's that about?

November 2, 2006
12:15 am
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It's about a sense other than one of our 5 physical senses.

free

November 2, 2006
4:08 am
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My husband explained to me that when your body is fighting off an infection it becomes warm in the area. I had never been that keen to it and found it rather intriguing that he was so perceptive.

November 2, 2006
6:04 am
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Of course I have several ideas about how she did it.

Super-infrared sensitive palms. Lucky guess. Hre is my favorite theory though:

I have no flippin idea.

November 2, 2006
4:22 pm
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I have a friend who is an "anointed healer", and can "see" such shadows, or spots, or lumps... underneath the skin. He started out as an accupressurist, but it turned into being able to actually heal people. I call it a 'gift' to be able to do so...but he also treats energy points as in Meridian points and can tell when they are out of wack. He beleives that the soul causes our energy to go haywire, and, negative emotions cause the same problems for us. I beleive him as he has treated me for the last year, as well as many members of my family and some other people like fighter Randy Coture(sp?), etc.

November 3, 2006
1:35 am
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I guess the reason I am kicking around ESP anecdotes here is that those storyies, while they don't "prove" anything are interesting, and maybe suggestive that our understanding of physics and human nature is missing some key pieces.

November 3, 2006
1:53 am
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Here’s a weird one.

I was a little older than 4 years old, and living in England. I was one of those kids that like to just wander. I can’t believe my parents didn’t put me on a leash.

Me and Timmy used to have adventures—he was a little older than me. But I was the one who usually suggested our more heroic deed—and Timmy always said “you go first.”

One evening my parents were napping, so I slipped out to play with Timmy. We had wandered out, oh a 20 minute walk from our homes, to a place we hadn’t explored before, when we came upon a manhole with it’s cover missing. Of course, I thought it must be a cool cavern, maybe even with treasure in there. Of course I wanted to explore and of course Timmy said “you go first.” So I jumped in and was very surprised that I had landed not on wet ground but in water that was over my head.

I did manage to grab the edge of the manhole, but there were no sides—it was like a hole in the ice. So I had no purchase for my feet, and I wasn’t strong enough to chin myself in those days.

I remember Timmy crying and I remember looking at him as the water covered my eyes.

At that moment, my Mom sat bolt upright in bed and cried something’s happened to “R!”

My Dad leapt out of bed threw on pants and a jacket, shoes no socks and ran his ass off—straight to a place where none of us had ever been, straight to the hole where I had just drowned. He got there about the same time as some construction workers that Timmy had run and called to the scene got there. The fished my cold blue lifeless body off the bottom with a stick, CPRd me back to life.

I remember it like it was yesterday.

Mom claims that I told her I met God in the meantime and he told me to go back and be with my Mom. I don’t remember that part. You would think if I remember drowning I would remember a conversation with the big guy.

November 3, 2006
12:43 pm
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WOW Worried Dad...your story gave me chills and watery eyes - how your mom knew and just shot straight up in bed!!!! Whew. What an experience you had. I am glad that you were saved.

November 3, 2006
1:15 pm
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Thank you WD for setting a more amiable tone to part 2.

Some of you have asked about how some of this can be explained in terms of physics?

This is right up my ally!

I suggest a book entitled: "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot

Bought this book several years ago - and can only digest little bits and pieces at a time.

I have to be careful though - because I can just get lost if spent too much time inside my own head.

Another really interesting read is: "Art and Physics....Parallel Visions in Space, Time & Light" by Leonard Shlain.

Although a bit lofty - I was consumed some years back with trying to devise a "Unified Field Theory" which Einstein was working on at the time of his death.

I came up with an equasion - but not without some extreme mental "pushed to the edge...near a mental breakdown process."

I will share if anyone is interested.

November 3, 2006
5:39 pm
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TtruthBtold

"I came up with an equasion - but not without some extreme mental "pushed to the edge...near a mental breakdown process."

I will share if anyone is interested."

I sure am interested in seeing that equation.

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