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Confusing warm fuzzy feelings with love!
September 1, 1999
5:23 pm
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To All.
It seems that often us humans confuse those warm, fuzzies with love.

Codependents confuse their agonizings, cravings and neediness for the lost 'lover' with genuine love.

Why is it that us humans generally have such misunderstandings about love?

September 2, 1999
12:21 am
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what is this

September 2, 1999
2:55 pm
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J. C.
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Nobody ever really told me what love is. So what is it? Is it making the best ut of everything you have whether it be amost nothing or almost everything? Is it being willing to make sacrifices for the well being of another? I think your questions, agin raise the question of what love is all over again. I use the word love to say that I enjoy being with someone, I think they are funny, trusting, confident, caring, virtuous, and pleasant, I also use it to say that I feel good with this person,I like me better, and "thank you for sharing yourself with me." I think it only starts as the warm fuzzy feeling, but then grows into more.

~JC

September 2, 1999
5:34 pm
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JC. I like your response. It seems to me that many people misuse the word in romantic relationships.

Many lovers seem to say 'I love you' when what they seem to really mean is 'I need you' and/or 'What you do for me gives me great pleasure and satisfaction'.

It seems to me that this is especially true in codependent relationships.

You posed the question, 'Is it being willing to make sacrifices for the well being of another?'

I tend to think that love is about 'making sacrifices' for another. The question regarding qualification of the motive for this sacrifice seems to me to be whether a 'return' is expected or not.

Mark Scott-Peck defines love as 'wanting the spiritual upliftment of oneself and/or another'. I think that 'real' love between couples is the joy experienced in seeing and sharing joyful experiences. It is perhaps also the sad experience of sharing sorrowful experiences as well.

It seems to me that when a 'merchant' mentality is involved 'real' love is not present. If I do something for someone 'in order that' I get some 'return'this is a business relationship not a loving one.

Does 'real' love in relationships involve a component of the 'merchant' mentality? You do this for me so I will feel good and I will reciprocate and 'love' you in return; otherwise ...? What do you think?

September 7, 1999
12:58 am
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Well, Tez, I suppose it is somewhat obvious that the sacrifices made for someone out of love is just that...done out of love with no expectations. My question is how far is one expected to go or 'give up' for love? This, I think is a problem in codependent relationships. They give up too much of themselves for another. They allow themselves to become not much more than a part of another persons life. When the dependent one comes crashing down, the codependent has no one to turn to. Read Jay's post in the thread,
"lost and alone"

~JC

September 7, 1999
4:44 pm
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J.C. I see your point. The "crashing down" - as you put it - seems to me to have been caused by the realization by the codependent "giver" that their "investment" hasn't 'paid off'. This codependency seems to me to be a mental illness based on a strong need for conditional 'love' in a futile attempt to meet infantile and childhood unfulfilled needs. The giving is very much 'in order that ...',yet it is mistaken by the giver for 'real' unconditional love as I understand it.

This is why I posed this question on the social issues thread. There seems to me to be some confusion about exactly what love is. Yet every one seems to want it. No one wants to believe that their partner wants a 'return' for their 'giving' yet most do - if they are honest with themselves. It seems to me that this is a major reason for the high failure rate in relationships.

What do you and others think is the generalized cause of marriage and relationship failure?

September 7, 1999
5:56 pm
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syschultz
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So what your saying is that if we are going to marry, we should not expect certain things from our spouse. If we really love them, then we just love them no matter what they do to you? And if you cannot do that, then you should not have gotten married to them because it was not love? So we should marry only if we would do anything for this person, even if they lie or cheat? If we just love them, then we will stay married?

So me as the co dependent is wrong? I told my husband that I am a codepedent and he laughed at me and said I was out of my mind. So I should just love my husband no matter what my needs are and try to satisfy my own needs with myself? I should not expect him to satisfy my needs? Is this what you are saying? That it is my fault that I am the one that gives too much love and yet I want in return and so it is my fault when I dont get what I want in return becuase I really did not love, I expected? So that I should pull back my giving unless I give just to give. I should not do things because I expect something.....I should just do it because I feel like doing it.

So then how do you do this? Do you act cold as if you dont care? By myself, I am very happy. When I was not married I was very happy. So I should just be by myself. then...

September 8, 1999
10:53 am
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J. C.
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Tez,

My answer to your question is, "communication." We fail to communicate with each other and more importantly ourselves. Do we do things for other people to get what we want from them or need? I think that is where the confusion lies. The codependent confuses her wants with her needs and expects the dependent to fulfill her needs by doing for her what she should do for herself...such as making decisions.

Syschultz,

Do you really believe that you never truly loved your husband? Is there still a place for him in your heart, home, life? Surely you have done things for him purely out of love...You had discussed a lot of those things on the "men women and sex" thread. Of course your relationship would benefit from it as well, but your intentions were directed towards his happiness, right? Think about it.

~JC

September 8, 1999
1:05 pm
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syschultz
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JC,
My intentions are directed toward his hapiness yes, but at the same time, I hope at least that it would be returned. If it is not, then I get all bent out of shape. When I communicate to him that certain things hurt me and that I wished he would not do them, he does them anyway and tries to hide them, so I get bent out of shape. So in a way, I guess I really dont love him unconditionally because I expect him to do things that do not hurt me. When he does these things, I just wished he was never there. I do better by myself.
Yes, I did love my husband, however, I saw a lot of warning signs that made me leave him in the first place before he even proposed.
I guess I should have stayed with my instincts.

I was just interested in some of the comments made, like the "unconditional love", and that when I do things, I should not expect return. Well I do expect return. I expect to be treated the same way that I treat him. So when I do things for him, I do it for his hapiness, however, I expect him to make me happy too otherwise, why be in the relationship.

September 8, 1999
5:00 pm
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Syschultz. Whoaaa... Take it easy. I am not into telling anyone what the 'shoulds' or 'oughts' are for them. I am into functional living, honesty with the self and clear thinking.For me that means recognising what makes me do things. I want my 'head' to rule my 'heart' not vice versa. You do what you like.

Now back to the issue.

I believe that unconditional love is probably non-existent among humans. Yet it is what we crave. Motherly love probably comes closest to that ideal.

Having said that, I am trying to explore the 'social issue' of the mistaken belief that reciprocity in relationships is genuine love. If either partner in a 'normal' marriage doesn't deliver 'the goods' then marriages usually fail. In the true sense this is 'conditional' love. It is second best and we settle for this type of 'love'as a substitute for 'real' unconditional love. See Carl Rogers on this subject.

If this point was recognized in marriages, perhaps needs, if clearly understood by both parties, would be declared openly and marriages would be conducted upon more business like lines.Then there may, just may, be less failures.

However, some people have deep unresolved emotional needs for security. This seems to dictate that they are 'loved' (fathered or mothered) by their partner.Such demands for 'love' (needs satisfaction) can be draining on a relationship and lead to problems.

September 8, 1999
5:29 pm
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J.C. Very soundly thought out and very well said. I totally agree with you. In problem marriages, we do not seem to 'communicate' our needs effectively at all.

I would go further to suggest that most people really don't understand what drives their emotional needs at all. They just know that they want 'love'of the Hollywood kind.

In a 'toxic' codependent relationship - I speak from personal experience - the need for 'love' from the other person is an addiction. However, having unromantically delved into the depths of my psyche, I found that my highly neurotic infantile 'needs' could never be satisfied by my then partner or any other. I was able to see both my sickness and hers and clearly see that there was no love involved in the futile 'transactions'. I was eventually able to free myself from the bondage of that hellish relationship and enter into a more healthy relationship based on 'conditional' love of a different kind.

Now the reciprocity is on a different needs level, if you know what I mean. Communication, based on a better understanding of our 'real' needs is much more effective. I am much, much happier in this present 12 year long relationship.

I see the confusion with the desire to fulfil insatiable infantile neurotic needs and love as the problem in the codependent relationship.

I further see the confusion between 'conditional' and 'unconditional' love as further exacerbating the problem in many so called 'normal' relationships.

I am not ever sure that Mother Tesesa of Calcutta loved unconditionally. I suspect - but I just don't know - that the conditions for her love were that she gained Christ's approval after her death and was 'saved'.

Can we really expect unconditional love from anyone? What do you think?

Is the term 'love' to general to be effective as a word to be used in precisely communicating what we mean?

September 8, 1999
6:55 pm
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Hi Tez,
Dont take all my questions the wrong way, I was just interested in the thought so I was playing devil's advocate, I guess.

I understand now what you mean. At first I thought that you meant that we should just love someone, and not expect anything back, meaning that you should not communicate that you have certain needs that you want fullfilled. After reading your last posting that made a little more sense as to what you were saying.

Sorry, that is why email gets misinterpreted, its writing without looking to see what the emotions of the person writing is really about.

Just was curious as to these thoughts that I was reading and needed a little more clarification as to what the thought was all about.

September 9, 1999
11:43 am
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Syschultz,

If your husband doesn't seem happy when you put out your efforts and you get 'bent out of shape,' do you feel like YOU failed. If you feel like you did something wrong when you put so much into it and it is your fault that he still isn't happy, then, yes, you are codependent. You depend on his actions and behavior to determine your own and your self worth. That's me all the way. I'm getting much better at this problem of mine. I have a lot of troubles deciding anything without consulting him first. Sometimes I feel like I have deceived him when making a decision without him. I don't think he even understands why I do this. I can't help it. I really, honestly believe this is what my father taught me. My father would deny it in a instant. He can't understand why I do this either.

Tez,

I do have to agree about unconditional love compared to a mother's love for a child. There isn't anything my kids could say or do that could make me change my feelings for them. The thing is...my little boy can say that I'm fat, and it's cute when he does it. My boyfriend can say that I'm fat, and my feelings are hurt. It really has a lot to do with how you want to look in the eyes of the other person. Mom's are allowed to be fat, but girlfriends aren't accepted so well. This is where we go back into the universal expectations of male and females. Boys aren't allowed to cry or express sadness...only anger. Girls aren't allowed to be angry or loud. They are supposed to sit pretty with her legs crossed. Whether we like it or not... liberals, radicals, conservatives... society has burned these messages into our brains. It's sickening. All these people trying to change it for decades, and it still remains an underlying problem. Men are too aggressive and act out too much and women are weak and undermined or abused. I was watching a talk show one night about whether or not it was okay to spank children. There was a man on stage representing the side of the debate against spanking. The whole entire show he kept comparing 'spanking children' to 'men beating wives.' What is wrong with this comparison? Fact is, without even knowing it, he was on stage implying to the whole world that women need to be shaped, guided and disciplined by her husband and if men can't hit their wives to do that then people shouldn't hit their children to do it. I was so offended by this man. His reasoning for not spanking children was knocked out of the studio as being totally off the subject, yet he kept bringing it up like it was a good point. I'll stop here...it's getting kind of long. Thoughts?

~JC

September 9, 1999
1:17 pm
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My husband is very happy at what I do. It is he that has the problem with what he does. I do not feel like I failed, but I do believe he has failed me or is very close to it. So I was interested in the comments about unconditional love. Because I feel like a broken record. I always say, okay this is the last time. One more screw up like this and I have to ask him to leave.

I have asked him 4 times now to stop this behavior that he does that hurts me. In each instance, he says he will never do it again. EAch time he says he is sorry, yet, he goes and does it again. This last time that I confronted, he told me that he does it to rebel against me, so I told him to leave. He said that 5 minutes ago, I wanted to go get therapy and not end this relationship. So I told him 5 minutes ago, it was his fault, now all of a sudden it is my fault. I cause him to rebel.

I was just questioning myself, because I basically gave him an ultimatum. Get help or I quit. So I was basically questioning the ultimatum. If I love unconditionally, then I have to forgive his behavior. But the only way that this is going to work is if I communicate my needs too. I have tried, but I guess it did not go through.

September 9, 1999
4:31 pm
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JC
My thought is that children need to be disciplined. I do believe in spanking but only in the beginning. After a while, you must turn the spanking into something that helps the child take responsibility for it actions. For instance, my faterh spanked me from about 1 till 3. And my brother, from 1 till about 4, But after these ages, we did not get spanked. When we messed up, it was harder to deal with his dissappointment than the spanking so my dad never had to hit us again. When we did something wrong, my dad talked to us and let us know first that our actions was wrong, then secondly, he let us know that he was dissappointed in our choice and that now that we know its wrong, that we should not do it again. Well that talk usually did the trick and we did not get into trouble withthat particular action again.

Now men and women are different. you are now adults and have been shaped and molded and developed personalities. Hey if the guy does not like what he wants in the women, then he should just leave and find what he is looking for. He should not have to hit us so that we change...That is what dating is all about. You look for the traits and needs that make you happy and you marry the man or woman that you think best suits you. If they dont, you cant hit someone to change them unless of course they are coming at you with a knife or gun.....But in just arguments, that is irrational behavior to hit someone just because that person does not act the way you want....

September 10, 1999
8:33 pm
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Syschultz.
You don’t have to apologise. I was not offended in any way. I clearly saw that you ‘read’ much more into my posting than I intended. This is common on BBs where no ‘voice intonation’ is associated with the words to convey the intended meaning. This intonation is subsequently provided by the reader and depends upon their present psychological and emotional state. This is a major deficiency in the written word.

I think that I understand your marital situation from your past posting. From my experience, I think the answer lies in attaining deep insights into our fundamental drives and needs and those of our partner. Only then are we in a position to seek ways of both communicating and meeting our mutual needs.

For example, just asking your husband to stop what he is doing, without knowing what need he is fulfilling and therefore without knowing how to meet that need in a mutually acceptable way, is asking him to frustrate his need to satisfy yours. Conversely, trying to accept and put up with your husband’s behavior, without knowing precisely how to meet your own frustrated needs in ways beneficial to both of you, is bound to cause the marriage to fail sooner or later.

As I understand it, psychodynamic therapy is about gaining insights and realisations about the self as a prelude to changing behaviour. Family therapy includes gaining insights and realisations about others in the relationship as a prerequisite to changing the nature of the interactions within the relationships. It is about opening honest, effective and caring ways of communicating needs to each other and seeking mutually beneficial solutions to fulfilling needs. Put simply, it is, in my opinion, about establishing real love in a relationship. This is why I am interested in the question of what ‘real’ love is.

Didn’t your husband front up to therapy? If not what was his reasons?

How are you going in your therapy? What are you learning?

September 10, 1999
8:40 pm
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J.C.
My thoughts on your posting about ‘belting’ people into submission?

Well… Gerard Jampolsky over-simplistically says that ‘love is letting go of fear’. What does he mean!

My thoughts:

In my opinion, we all are in the ‘dance’ of life together. In this ‘dance’ some ‘lead’ and some ‘follow’. Either way, we are all trying to get our individual needs met. Even when women who ‘love too much’ give, they are trying to ‘buy’ love;to 'buy' their fundamental need.

The problems arise when we use means that frustrate and deprive others of their ‘real’ need fulfilment. ‘Belting’ another is a means of severe coercion using raw fear as the motivation in ‘making’ others do what we want. Love on the other hand, is based on the motivation of meeting ‘MUTUAL’ needs in a healthy and beneficial way.

However, if as children, we have never experienced love, and have known only fear, then we will automatically seek to use punitive measures of one kind or another to get our needs met. Our courts and the law enforcers reinforce their powers by use of fear; fear of punishment. All this is because. Generally speaking, people are in the ‘dark’ when it comes to effective parenting. It sounds to me like ‘Meagan1’ had a very enlightened father. Very few of us are that lucky.

Husbands, who as children were belted into submission and who saw their father’s terrorize their mother and their siblings into submission, will generally repeat the ‘sins’ of the father. These unfortunate husbands are as much victims as are their wives. They are like lost little children blundering around, panic stricken, lashing out at others as they try to find their way through the maze of life. It seems to be all about trying to eliminate fear of losing means of gratification by control and power over others; the more dependent the wife is the better for they like it. Only the degree and nature of the abuse varies. ‘Belting’ wives is at the extreme end of this fear filled spectrum; emotional blackmail is perhaps at the other. I suspect that this scenario is all to common.

Husbands, who as children were disciplined with lots of love, will cooperate lovingly with their wives in endeavouring to find ways of satisfying both their needs to their mutual benefit and satisfaction. Such husbands delight in their wives successes and self-assertions. They foster independence in their wives. I think that this scenario is a rarity.

If love is about wanting what is in the ‘MUTUAL’ best interests of all involved in the quest for need fulfilment, then it follows that we all need to be able to discern what is in our best interests. This requires ‘DEEP’ insights into our individual needs and a profound knowledge as to how these needs should be met to the MUTUAL benefit of all. I believe that these personal insights and realisations are what is missing in today’s materialistic, body conscious and self-centred society.

In regard to codependency, we are all mutually dependent on each other in some degree. It is when this codependency results in frustration, pain and degradation that mental illness results.

Your thoughts?

September 19, 1999
4:27 am
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Tez,
i see what you are saying....However, how am I supposed to know what his needs are if he does not tell me....I guess that is something that has to come from him to trust me enough or for him to find out...

Anyway, to answer your questions.....He went once, I went once and I told you in the other posting what the therapist said. I called the therapist the day after my husband went because the therapist told me too. He left it in my husband's ball court to decide what to do...The therapist said that he would like to see both of us together....Well, I waited....I did not bring it up, but I gave him opportunities....I sat in quiet, made some small chit chat about the days.....I normally have my schedule so jamned pack with things to do, the laundry, the cars, making dinner. But instead, we went out to dinner for a couple of nights...., I put of doing the laundry and sat and watched tv with him for days, and a coupleof weeks went by and no word on what to do, what he talked about, not even mentioned that he went.....so I brought it up and he got angry....he said he could do it by himself....so I gave him the chance....well last month, no this month, Sept 2nd, he was back ont he internet....you know, this time it did not bother me....I let it slide the first day....It did not even bother me a bit because it was just pictures...there was no chattin or emailing...just pictures....he erased everything of course, but my computer skills let me tell you are alittle better than his and when you erase, things and you think they are erased....there never erased unless you format your drive every day.....Well the second day....it was pictures again....except this one was not downloaded....It was a picture of my cousin, who was clothed, because I had scanned it in to do some brochures for her mom's charm school and make-up classes....However, this picture he altered with our picture software, and on her shirt was a set of boobs. NOt any old boobs, what he did was lighten that area of her shirt, till you could kind of make out what looked like her boobs.....he erased it of course....but he forgot this time to empty the recycle bin.....so I packed all his clothes and printed a picture with a note saying happy anniversary, and left his car keys, because he was driving my car that night...and his payment book, out on the porch and I went to sleep.....To my dissappointment...he did not leave.....So I went to work....Then I came home in the middle of the day to yell at him....So I told him that he failed by himself he failed....so now, he is going to have to do something about it....by himself he could not do it...and I gave him the chance, I told him how on Monday, when he was home all during the day and no pictures....I was so butt happy, I was jumping around in my room.....Tuesday, I was disappointed, but accepted that that was a part of life I guess....but Wednesday was the last straw....my own younger cousin...I told him it made me sick to my stomach....he said he thought it was funny....and that I only see things my way......so I told him to go show it to his mom, see if she would think its funny, I told him to go show it to my aunt who is the mother of my cousin in the pictures....see if she thinks its funny, go show it to my cousin, see if she laughes and gets a kick out of it.....
So I think he had an appointment this Thursday and again,,,,no mention of what was talked about......If I ask, he thinks I am prying and cant leave him alone, so I just will wait till he is ready...Meanwhile, I made an appointment for me for marriage counseling, on how I can let myself trust....The pictures does not even bother me anymore....because I love myself and there are at least 10 people waiting in line after him....not that I am braggin, but just to show that I aint taking sh_t. I am working it out on the suggestion of my father and pastor....I really take my vow seriously....since I had not tried counselling, I mean really gave it a good shot....I am trying it now...If this does not work....then we are done...because I am not going to stay in a relationship where I think the other person thinks I am stupid....I am not stupid.

September 19, 1999
6:32 pm
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Syschultz. I can only state the obvious; we cannot change others, they have to want to change for themselves. Wanting to change to suit the needs of others never seems to work very well, for very long.

If your husband ever gets to the point where he recognizes that he has lots of problems, then he just may choose to learn about what drives him; that is, 'what his needs are'.

At the moment, from what you say, it seems that all he wants is to placate you and at the same time continue on as he always has. To me it appears that he doesn't realise that he has a problem. Sure; he knows that his behavior is socially unacceptable. But! he really doesn't see that he ought to change it.

I think that your husband totally separates sexuality from love. He seems to 'love' you with one part of himself; yet he splits off his sexual part and satisfies that by focussing on sexual objects as seen in the photos. I doubt that your husband sees your cousin as a person at all; but as a life support system for sexual parts of the female body.

It is the 'I-Thou' versus the 'I-It' mentality; if you know what I mean. In cuddling you he is in 'I-Thou' mode. In viewing sexual parts and 'doing himself' (as you say) he is in 'I-It' mode. This is a fragmentation of his psyche. However, it may take a hell of a lot of pain before he realises this.

What people choose to call 'love' can often be, in my opinion, very infantile cravings which result from poor psychosexual development in childhood. I apologise for my 'Freudian' overtones.

You seem to me to be a very good person, a faithful and tolerant wife, and a very good friend to your husband. You are obviously a very attractive person also. Yet as you have found out, looks are not enough to hold a marriage together. BOTH partners need to be committed to make a relationship work.

For me the main reason for a marriage is to provide an intimate environment wherein both partners have an opportunity to grow in self understanding and the understanding of another. This is how the discovery of mutual needs is achieved. It takes a lifetime's journey, not an overnight flash of inspiration.

For me love is a commitment to self as well as another in going hand in hand through life's pain, suffering, pleasure and joy. However,in a marriage it takes two committed people to perform love's tango.

Can you, or have you, ask(ed)your husband if he is really committed to making your marriage work? Is he prepared to go to any lengths to find a way of making it work? It seems that you are! Is he?

September 20, 1999
9:10 am
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Hi Tez, Meagan, and Syschultz.

I wasn't really trying to raise the debate about spanking children, nor the topic of beating wives...that was beside my point. My point was the idea this man had about women seems to be a universal underlying idea about women in general. 'Women are not so equal to men, but more so to children.' He gave the impression that women should be treated by their husbands the same as children by their parents. This is what angered and offended me so much. I understand that if parents didn't belt their children uncontrollably and out of anger, then the cycle of beating wives could be broken...this isn't what he was talking about. He was comparing the issue of spanking children to the topic of wife beating. He said that 'if it's okay to spank some children, then it's okay to beat some wives.' Where's the logic in that? Mother's don't need to be seen by their children that they are to be undermined by their husbands...this is where sons try to decide when they are old enough to undermine Mom and daughters grow up to be weak and dependent on a man for the rest of her life. This is where the problem begins...whether the man beats the wife or not, they seem to think they are the parent of the wife. This is exactly how my father was to my mother. He verbally disciplined her for not having the house cleaned up and dinner on the table by the time he got home from work. He would give her a list of things to do...like she didn't have enough to do as it is. I'm not blaming my dad, nor am I angry with him. It was in his upbringing and now in mine. I am weak and dependent. I don't know how to make decisions on my own...I stress out terribly when I'm faced with decisions. My boyfriend can't understand why I get so upset, yet when he wants to know something he expects an answer immediately. It doesn't matter to him if I'm working on something. Nothing I could possibly be doing is half as important as what he wants to know. He dominates me without even knowing it. He is in control. He disciplines me verbally for not doing anything while he was at work...of course taking care of the kids doesn't count as getting anything done. Do you see what I'm getting at here? I'm finding the core of my problem in my upbringing that seems to be a universal problem. I see it almost everywhere. Not only that, where ever I don't see 'man dominating woman' I see it in reverse: 'woman dominating man.'

thoughts?~JC

September 20, 1999
5:29 pm
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JC. I think that you are talking about the need every human being , male or female, has for feeling that he/she is in control of his/her environment. Everyone is trying to manipulate everyone else; it is only a question of degree and the technique used. Some do it very subtly; others more obtusely. Women seek to control their husbands in so many ways; men their wives. It is my opinion that men, having in their past, relied on physical strength more so than women, are not as skilled as women in the art of manipulating. Men use more gross means; violence and verbal abuse etc.

I see the fundamental problem as being our own ignorance of the workings of our own psyches. Most of us humans at best only seem to have a vague notion of what drives us to behave as we do. We invest the source of our happiness, or unhappiness, security, or insecurity in others. We seek to project all sorts of motives into others for their behaviour without any concrete evidence for doing so. We don't recognise the source of our fears!!

The intensity of the need to manipulate and control others to have our security needs met is dependent upon how secure we feel within ourselves. Insecure men and women will tend to have higher control needs than secure people. Manipulation in the form of passive aggression in men and women, because of its covert nature, usually receives little attention.

It seems that, in your case, you father had strong needs to control his family. He must have felt very insecure about your mother's love for him. Did he try to bind your mother to him by trying to convince her of her need for him to make her decisions for her? Did he try to convince her that she was 'stupid'?

You seem to have been brought up to believe that you were not competent to think for yourself. Is that what you believe now? Do you trust your own ability to make good decisions? Or is a 'little voice' inside you always putting you down as being likely to do the 'wrong thing'; whatever that means?

September 21, 1999
11:04 am
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J. C.
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Tez,

I truly don't trust my ability to make good decisions. Once a decision is made, I'm constantly trying to convince myself that it was right. My father never tried to convince my mother that she was stupid or incopetent without him. He didn't bind her to him...he really left her out. They moved more than 600 miles away from all family with 3 going on 7 children for my father's job. He joined gun clubs, the Jaycees, took on hobbies, community service, church lecturing, bridge clubs, and a part time job with the city as a police officer then an emergency medical technician all in addition to his full time job with the government. My father is an overachiever and a very successful highly respected and outstanding citizen. He also has a condition called ADHI: attention deficit hyperactive impulsive. He can't understand why it's so hard for others to accomplish as much as him. My mother was brought to the community without knowing anyone expected to raise 7 children,take care of the house and have a life of her own withou any help. Hen they were living in Michigan both her parents and his were able to help out. Here in Illinois, she didn't know anyone that could help her. He just figured she could do anything she wanted...after all, he did what he wanted. She didn't have much choice, but to depend on him. She was sort of restricted due to both circumstances and his lack of understanding the sacrifices she had to make for him to succeed.

gotta go my keyboard needs new batteries~JC

September 21, 1999
1:53 pm
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bel
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Hi Tez, and All

I don't think I will ever again experience or have ever experienced those warm fuzzy feelings of love. I do belive they are associated with love and at times yes infatuation too. But to me if you love someone you have those fuzzy warm feelings, they just go away when you live together day in and day out and then you have to work harder at keeping those fuzzy warm feelings. Anyhow just wanted to put my two cents in, im not and have not been in a real serious relationship in many many years......so I don't really have alot to offer here............just fading memories

Always
Bel

September 21, 1999
5:14 pm
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J.C. Interesting, about your dad's life. Do you think that his lack of contact with you is a major factor in your decision making processes?

With all those kids and all, did your mom - really spelt mum 🙂 - spent much time with you? Do you think that this undermined your feelings of security and your confidence in yourself?

September 21, 1999
5:30 pm
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Bel. Hello. It is good to hear your views. What's this about 'fading memories' of warm feelings for a partner??? Never!

If I were a betting man, I would wager that, before the year is out, someone special will appear on the scene.

Enjoy the freedom and independence that you have now while it lasts; it won't be for long. Keep that faith.

As far as not having a lot to offer, well... you know that this is untrue. Tich, tich 🙂

Someone once said that 'We cannot love anyone unless we first love all of humanity'. Do you think this is true or false?

Do we have to 'like' the person that we 'love'? What is the difference between 'liking' and 'loving'?

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