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Codependent No More CHAPTER 7
February 15, 2007
11:27 pm
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armyleo
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Are you scared to be alone, if things don't work out with you H?

February 15, 2007
11:28 pm
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armyleo
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What state do you live in??

February 16, 2007
10:08 am
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ggfred4
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Hey girls, I feel better this a.m. and again another chapter I am struggling with. Am I in denial? I never thought I was a controlling person at all except for controlling my children. I try not to let anyone control me. Yet, it seems like circumstances in my life have control over me and I don't have the self-esteem to do stop that.

My dad had so much control over my family growing up. I seem to have a hatred for some, I won't say all men because of how many tried to have control over me in my life.

Okay, I am stuck here. Help???

February 16, 2007
10:42 am
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soprano2
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GG

I am in the same boat. My father was very controlling. From what I wore to what I ate to where I went to college. It was embarrassing.

And I realize now that he plays a part in my shortcomings. Because he always made my decisions, I never learned how to make a decision myself. I also learned that my feelings about things did not matter.

And I wonder why I had so many problems with guys. I wonder why I let David put me on a scale before we went out to decide whether or not I could go out to eat or not. I wonder why I dress the way different boyfriends wanted me to dress so that they would feel good.

I think that this "control" thing over the years has become an issue on both sides for me. I think that I never learned how to make decisions or "take control" of myself because someone else did it for me. And I think that I became complacent in the fact that I did not have to make decisions for myself. Both things lead to yuckiness.

So what am I learning? When I read through this chapter again, I saw that I underlined one thing:

"You didn't cause it; you can't control it; you can't cure it."

Why did I underline this? I think that through my own issues of low self-worth and what seemed like a lack of control of my own destiny, I learned that I could control certain issues. I am learning now that I can't control anyone except for myself.

So I need to step out of my comfort zone and learn how to control myself. I need to practice making decisions. I need to realize that I am worth something and that I don't need someone to give me that worth.

This has been very hard for me to change what I do and how I do, but I am learning how to do it. And it is getting easier.

Now that I find myself in a position where I need to make even more decisions at home, I am sure that I am going to get lots of practice at it. I am actually looking forward to it. I am not scared at all.

I understand that stuck feeling. It is very hard. I feel for you.

I enjoyed reading last night's conversations. I wish I could have been there. Had the kids (as usual.)

s2

February 16, 2007
11:58 am
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ggfred4
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thank you so much s2, for your words and your understanding. I am learning so much about myself these last few months. I do not like what I am learning and am amazed how much my past has affected my behavior. But you are right, I can change that. I know I need to work on my self-esteem and empower myself to make these changes, but as for myself, I must be patient!

Thanks s2~~

February 16, 2007
3:24 pm
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soprano2
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GG-

I am glad that you found my words a little bit encouraging. I know that you have encouraged me over the last few months.

You are a good example for me.

Hope to chat with you again soon.

s2

February 16, 2007
11:03 pm
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mj
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Army, to answer last nights question, No, I am not afraid of being alone. I like my company! I am afraid of not being able to financially take care of myself.

I live in Oregon.

February 17, 2007
11:50 am
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mj
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Bevdee, I just read your posts to Tez for the first time and I didn't want to intrude there but wanted to tell you that I really admire your working through that childhood abuse event and I want you to know that I respect you more because of it. My best to you.

February 17, 2007
11:57 am
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mj
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I was sexually abused by both my brothers in childhood. It's disgusting but true. I just want you to know Bevdee that sometimes our realities feel ugly but its the ugliness that others do to us that we couldn't stop that we need to deal with. When we reclaim our true authentic self and acknowlege self hate and loathing about our past and acceptance then I believe we will feel better about ourselves today. I know that for me its been really hard to love someone who is sick. One of my brothers is dead and the other one has helped me out so much when my relationship has gotten frightfully scarey. I want to be free to say what is in my heart and trust myself. I get so angry when others discount my feelings and tell me to stuff it. I want to be accepted for who I am today. I am good enough.

February 17, 2007
12:05 pm
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mj
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I was reading Healing the Shame this morning and I was thinking about why I feel sad about alot of things.

I was abandoned by my father when I was 12. He chose to let his new psycho cousin/wife parent me. One of my most hurtful memories was of my stepmom calling me a whore and my father being silent. Now my ex supports and maintains my father with the help of my brother. Why does this continue to bother me? Its because I was always worthy and special and I just picked people who resembled my parents. I see alot of similarities in my husband that resemble my parents.

My current husband has rage attacks and anger like my mom. He also can be extremely emotionally cold like my father. My reading today said that until I integrate all aspects of myself and become whole, that I will keep getting thrust back into the shame. Shame and codependency are one of the same.

February 17, 2007
12:38 pm
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mj
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Ok, feeling better. Read some more in my book. I want my Magical child to reappear and help heal my woundedness. I know that recovery is possible. I know that I am loveable and worthwhile. I know that my past is painful but knowing that I am okay today is where I need to focus so that I can feel Good.

I want laughter and love restored. I want to be whole again. I remember a time when I layed on the bright green grass without a care in the world and felt the breeze. I watched the clouds changing in the sky and I made a game of guessing what the clouds resembled. I know that child exists still. My true authentic self that I am reclaiming and bonding with. Today the sun is shining and the air is crisp. I will make this day Great by practicing hugging myself and loving myself and telling myself that I am right where I am suppose to be today.

February 17, 2007
1:23 pm
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bevdee
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Hey MJ?

Thank you. I felt real vulnerable doing that, even with Tez who I have grown to feel so close to.

I would never consider anything you posted on any thread intruding.

Thank you again.

February 17, 2007
1:58 pm
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mj
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Do you feel a new sense of freedom from getting it out?

February 17, 2007
2:07 pm
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bevdee
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A little - It is like it is still working itself out of me. Does that make sense? Just writing it out released it, but it wasn't like a radical somethingectomy.

I am still pondering shame.

February 17, 2007
2:14 pm
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mj
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I felt so much shame after sharing what I did today. I had to use all my recovery tools to convince me that I wouldn't go down with the shame spiral again. It seems to me that it is a process. I just want you to know that you are encouraging me to deal with these shameful issues as well.

The first time I ever shared this was with my best friend in high school Sophmore year and she told the whole Biology class. I nearly died. Then in 1997, I shared with a boyfriend, and he called me nuts.

So I have alot of fear of being shamed by expressing a truth in my past.

I too was triggered by the words "You let her". You said that she forced you. I read those words and I understood what you said.

February 17, 2007
2:21 pm
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bevdee
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"The first time I ever shared this was with my best friend in high school Sophmore year and she told the whole Biology class. I nearly died. Then in 1997, I shared with a boyfriend, and he called me nuts."

MJ- that is too awful for words. I would have wanted to die.

I never told anyone.

I'm not strong or anything just for having told it. But I haven't been ill today. I think that might be progress.

February 17, 2007
2:26 pm
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mj
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((((Bevdee))))

You are not alone. Just wanted you to know that I respect Tez's postings too. He has helped me so much since coming to this site. I am glad that you trust him and can share. He has lots of insights as lots of others do too. It is nice to have a support network where we can come out and say what we feel anonymously. Unfortunately, we still carry our past triggers and current behavior. Oh....to really be able to truly love oneself and totally accept oneself. That's what I want. It is progress not perfection. Thanks for understanding. I can't believe I just blurted it out today but it needed to come out so I can make peace with it and get on towards a healthier ego boundaried individual 🙂

February 17, 2007
2:30 pm
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bevdee
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((MJ))

February 17, 2007
2:32 pm
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mj
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When you wrote "I'm not strong or anything just for having told it. But I haven't been ill today." I know that feeling. I too feel nausea and unsettled. I am suppose to get together with a recovery friend and I feel unsettled and wanting to bow out and isolate. Even though it happened so long ago, its like it happened just minutes ago in my psyche. It still feels disgusting and deplorable.

February 17, 2007
2:43 pm
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bevdee
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MJ

I have done pretty well with other issues- over time. Codependency. Then compassion. THEN boundaries. That's a hard one for me.

Here is where it gets difficult. I can understand why a person does what they do- even when it hurts me. I have never been able to say - "well he's a bastard" or "what a bitch" or "they're insane". That is too simple because I do understand why people that are hurtful to me do what they do.

The challenge for me is applying the knowledge of my codep and the understanding I have of a person that hurts me AND maintaining boundaries. Sympathy battles with boundaries- every time. And sometimes it's just easier to go with the familiar, isn't it?

I must take a shower now. I have been cleaning house today, and it is almost 2 pm! I feel funky! I'll check back in a few, before i make the drive to town for groceries.

It's good to talk to you. Thank you for your feedback. I don't know how I feel about being an inspiration- but it was a nice compliment. 🙂

Bevdee

February 17, 2007
2:50 pm
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mj
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Were you taught that feeling anger was wrong? I was. I have always liked being around angry people that express themselves because it the other extreme. I know now that balance is the answer not crazymaking extremes but it is relearning new behavior along with stopping all the negative self talk. As women, I don't think we learned to have boundaries. Thanks for taking the time to share with me today. My best to you.

February 17, 2007
3:29 pm
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mj
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I called my friend and she wanted to get together later today so I asked if tomorrow would work for her? I told her I was feeling a little uncentered from grieving an issue in my past and that would be better for me. New Behavior, asking for what I need!

In October this past year, I had another friendship dissolve. This woman had been my friend then my sponsor in Al-Anon. She wanted me to share a room with her and another woman who I don't care for. The reason I don't care for her is because she has rejected my friendship in the past and sharing a room with someone who doesn't want to be friends seemed too personal for my comfort. I told my sponsor that I didn't feel comfortable. She proceeded to tell me that I had a problem with only wanting her exclusively. I told her I would think about it and get back with her the next day. She called me the next day and I told her that I wasn't comfortable sharing a room with her other friend. Because she said I had put her in the middle, and talked down to me about my feelings, I found myself reacting and stepping down from being Group Rep. for Al-Anon only because I couldn't deal with my feelings and frusturations at that time. Looking back on it, I was healthy in stating my needs and unfortunately I took on her issues and quit to protect myself. I wonder now if things would have been any different if I could have just said, you will need to resolve your issues with your friend and I will not room with you either in order to feel safe. What if, could ofs, and should haves are not what I want. I want to feel safe sharing with people who care about me and accept my idioscychrosies because that's what makes me who I am. I guess that is acceptance. I still feel bad about the loss of my meetings and friendship but I don't regret standing up for my right to choose. When we we young and inappropriate sexual advances were forced on us, it taught us that our bodies weren't ours. I like how they teach kids in school about appropriate touch now. They teach them that our body's are ours and no one can violate our space. I like that value. I am going to continue using it in my adulthood.

February 18, 2007
2:25 am
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bevdee
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MJ

Yes I was always taught that my anger was wrong.

My mother did not allow it. My daddy told me to pray about it.

I believe it scared my grandparents.

I now wonder if the fear was that in the middle of all my ranting, some ugly truth would spill out and there would be something unspeakablesaid.

February 18, 2007
2:36 am
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bevdee
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MJ

The only thing that comes to mind to share about the AlAnon is that I tried going to some of those meetings, too. Everyone there has suffered in some way, too, and your sponsor may have been responding from an old pattern. Does that make sense?

I have done that too, though. Instead of just stating the boundary, I would state it and then leave in a blaze of glory, not waiting to see how the situation might resolve.

Sorry if this seems rambling. I fell asleep after supper and woke up in the middle of the night. I'll check on this later in the day.

((MJ))

February 18, 2007
10:38 am
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mj
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When I started expressing my anger with my husband, it felt like I was crazy. I didn't like it. Then I felt like I had to raise my voice as high as his to be heard too. The other day, I just said, I am feeling very Angry and then removed myself from his presence so I could calm down. I am beginning to see that anger is just another emotion that is real and nothing to be feared. It has taken practice knowing that its ok to be angry as long as the anger is directed at someone to hurt them. I remember one of the first times I expressed my anger. I was about 14. I talked back to my mother when she was very angry about my father and his new wife. She was talking bull and I told her I didn't like her to say bad things about them. She beat me up pretty badly and that was when I left to live with my father. Another occassion when my 1st husband had had his second affair, I loaded his clothes into garbage bags and set them outside. When night came, I brought them back in. He didn't come home for days but I never pulled them back out of the bags. He was surprised that his clothes were in bags. Learning has taken me a long time. I still haven't got it down.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on my sponsors' behavior. It just felt so controlling and so unlike her. She must have felt strongly about it because we haven't spoken for over 5 months where we use to speak almost daily. I wrote her a letter telling her I felt angry, betrayed and hurt. She never responded to it, so I am trying to let it go. It seems like it took forever to build trust and let someone in and to have them leave so quickly over boundaries was very confusing to me.

I took a really long nap yesterday after we talked. Recovery is hard work and exhausting. Love to YOU

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