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Codependent No More CHAPTER 5
February 2, 2007
12:45 am
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armyleo
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bear with me here...

If I don't try and fix the problem and make things better, and detach, isn't that making my problems worse?

Let's say, H is being his usual self, like this week, not talking, silent treat, doesn't tell me what his schedule is or what he is doing. My detaching is going to make things worse. We don't speak as it is, I feel horrible me detaching, is only going to make me feel guilty, because I'm going to feel like i'm the one who is causing this.

February 2, 2007
12:55 am
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mamacinnamon
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Here is an example... My son did drugs. I put of $6,000, my life savings, yes, we are not wealthy, to put him thru rehab. I gladly did it to help him. But I told him.. you go back to drugs and I will not put you thru rehab again, I will not bail you out of jail, I will not give you money for anything. So, my son has decided to do drugs on the weekend on occasion, not every so he says, and I must follow thru.

I am not gonna fix him, I am not gonna intervene, I am not gonna take the blame coz I know I did my part to be a good mom.

OK, hubby belittles you. Will that stop, no, it just won't make you fall apart anymore; eventually. He doesn't talk now so what will the difference be? He doesn't tell you his schedule now or what he is doing. So you will no longer run after him w/ the calendar saying "what? when? huh?"

You are going to find things you like to do without him. This is a very hard one for me and I've still not done well at it, but I do try. How can you feel you are the cause when he is doing these things anyway? Nothing will be different other than you will not be falling apart and running around trying to find out and fix. You will be more calm. You may even find yourself happier when the peace sets in. You may find the girls might wantto be around you more if you are not upset. Chances are even good that hubby will notice a difference and if you are not pursueing him then he may decide to pursue you.

My hubby did psyops in the Army. I know the head games. So every once in awhle I will treat him as he treats me. Oh my gosh you'd think I were frankenstein or had pushed the nuke button myself. I just look at him and say "this is what you do to me; like it?" the end. He usually wants to fight then, but I just go do my thing. And you may find hubby doing this to you. He will, I promise you this, HE WILL get worse before he gets better. He is comfy in his world of abuse. You heal anld he'll not have you to abuse anymore. You will then be a person to him and not a puppy dog to kick.

Make sense?

February 2, 2007
1:11 am
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armyleo
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Yes, makes sense.

I think H plays games with me also, just when I think I can read him, and what he is doing he changes tactics. And sometimes I get angry, and he turns it around, like it's me who is crazy...But how do I stop from reacting? I'm not strong like the rest of you.

I guess I'm scared, to start doing things I like..Scared he won't approve and get mad. He gets mad because I read, because I knit, because I'm on the computer...What does he want, me to be on my hands and knees all day cleaning??? I guess I use to do things I liked earlier in my marriage and then slowly I guess I started to let go of what I liked, because he didn't approve or like. But back then, I was able to take more, and not let it bother me, I don't know what's happened....

I guess I became co-depedent.

February 2, 2007
1:15 am
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mamacinnamon
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Oh honey, we did not stop reacting just one day and that was it. As Free calls it. It is a journey. You will get bold and then he'll "put you in your place" and you'll wonder why you did it. But then you'll get a sense of Wow see what I did and you will want to do it again. it is a process that takes time.

Scared is understandable. Are we not all afraid of changing?

In your time. Just remember this will be done in your time when you are ready

February 2, 2007
1:24 am
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mamacinnamon
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Army: I need to go now. I am fading away fast and hubby will be home soon.
Let's resume tomorrow ok. Try to get some sleep.

February 2, 2007
8:22 am
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mj
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Its from a meditation book, Hope for Today.

February 2, 2007
8:27 am
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mj
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Just wanted to let you know that I am done with Thurs. nights. Its no fun waiting 1/2 hr for people or not being talked to. I have more important things I can do with my time.

February 2, 2007
8:40 am
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bevdee
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MJ

Last night's meeting was kind of fragmented, wasn't it? I think Army said she had unexpected company and MamaC stated her daughter called her away, and I kept getting phone calls.

I like that we have a week for each chapter. That way we and others that can't physically be at the pc at the time of the meeting can have an easier time of finding the material covered, and can go back later and think over what has already been discussed. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for everyone at the same time.

February 2, 2007
10:18 am
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mamacinnamon
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MJ:

I am truly sorry you feel ignored. Yes, last night was a messed up night. I looked back and to be honest w/ you... You state things so very well and I agree w/ what you say. I look to your posts for guidance. I think/thought you were bein included. Not a lot of room left for debate when you state things as well as you do.

Please do stay. You are a big asset to this study. You provide such good material and examples. I look at the words you write and it helps me get thru my week.

Anyway, again sorry you feel this way. Please do reconsider.

February 2, 2007
10:24 am
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mj
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The week before the study didn't happen until 8:15. In my world, 15 minutes is professional courtesy. I was frusturated last week as well but decided to let it go. This week felt like a repeat as well. I plan time to make it to meetings, and online meetings, and plan for this book study too. I was committed to this. Now, I am not. I don't like feeling what I am feeling so I am taking positive action for myself. SC suggested that we just post the thread. It seemed like everyone started posting during the week too. So I am a little confused by what was decided. It appeared that the meetings were going to happen. I feel a little left out because I don't have a few hours to invest in a meeting. I hope all of you continue to reap the rewards of the book study. I prefer to continue taking care of myself and reading and remaining not frusturated.

February 2, 2007
10:28 am
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mj
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Hi Mamacinnamon, I am sorry that we cross posted. I responded before you wrote that. Thank you for the compliment about me being an asset. I didn't know you thought that until now.

February 2, 2007
1:45 pm
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mamacinnamon
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MJ:

I wouldn't have said it had I not thought so. You are a tremendous asset to this site in my opinion, I know I can always count on you to give good advice and also have a loving shoulder to cry on if needed. I am sad you are leaving the book study, but you do what is best for you. I have had my days all messed up and on the last 3 Wednesdays thought it Thursday and posted early. I don't know why my time is messed up like that but it happens.

If you would.. I know this is a bit much to ask, but I am gonna anyway. If you continue w/ the book on your own would you mind posting your thoughts? I benefit from them greatly as I think Army and Bevdee do also. If you cannot I understand.

🙂

February 2, 2007
2:34 pm
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armyleo
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Hi MJ,

I'm sorry you feel left out...

I think the way we did the book study worked well the first week. Where we started posting our thoughts to the questions on Thursday and then it continued throughout the week, for everyone who couldn't join...Versus, everyone posting before and then, it's all kind of already said by Thursday...

However, that doesn't solve the problem of you being on, and the rest of us being late.

I hope you continue to post because you bring a wealth of information with you...Everyone brings in a unique part of themselves...

February 2, 2007
3:49 pm
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armyleo
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I was reading another post that Shaney and Bev were discussing...

Shaney said "...and viewed everyone else who didn't seem to have that control, as toooooo weak and emotional"

I guess this has to do with detaching, If I'm detaching and not in control, then am I weak? I guess that is what I have been scared of...If I let go, lose the control...Will I appear weak.

I guess because of how I have felt, that my parents abandonded me, even if they really didn't I guess...I have always controled, my emotions, since I was young so as not to appear weak, I wanted to appear, like I could go on and didn't need anyone...Then with H, I do the same thing...

February 2, 2007
4:40 pm
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bevdee
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Hey Army

"I guess this has to do with detaching, If I'm detaching and not in control, then am I weak?"

Oh Army. I think this is strength. And wisdom. It's hard for me to figure out detachment - total detachment (no contact). and detachment with boundaries. I believe the need to control stemmed from my insecurities.

February 2, 2007
4:46 pm
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armyleo
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gg -

Missed you this week - are you doing okay?

February 2, 2007
8:30 pm
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mj
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Hello,

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts as well. Thanks for letting me know that I am okay today just the way I am. Looking forward to reviewing the next Chapter and posting my thoughts also. I need a support network as much as anyone else and I don't like feeling upset. Today at my class no one was on time. I am thinking, Is this the way of the world?

February 2, 2007
8:46 pm
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bevdee
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MJ

It might be!! I am not usually late, but some days I can barely get my stuff together to get out of the house!! I think it is a malady of the modern world - we all have too much going on!

Glad you are gonna hang out for a little while longer!!

February 2, 2007
9:00 pm
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mamacinnamon
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MJ:

Is this the way of the world?

Ya know I used to be 20 minutes early for everything. Always have been 20 minutes early, my dad and mom insisted on it. Hubby was always 20 minutes late. Now we are pretty much on time. My sister, late for everything, even had to wait 2 hours for Christmas year before this. I think time is not a priority w/ folks anymore.

Lately I lose track of everything.. time, things, appts. Don't know why. I fret over bein late to things and would not have been late last night, but my cihld reminded me I had promised to play her a round of a game on the computer.

I'll try to do better next week and am very happy you are gonna stay.

February 3, 2007
11:17 am
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mj
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Thanks for understanding and your support. I am learning that instead of stuffing, I need to find a healthy outlet for expression of my feelings. I felt really uncomfortable with expressing my frusturation and did the norm which is withdraw. Thanks for not blowing me off yesterday and talking to me about not taking it personally. I have such negative self talk going on in my head. I will try to be less critical. I am critical of myself so I don't really notice that I do this with others as well. We are busier as a society these days. I don't usually have alot going on so I am always early. Thanks for sharing that point. I think I may learn compassion.

Love to All

February 4, 2007
4:16 am
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armyleo
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I've been thinking alot, the last chapter had me think about spiritual stuff and HP etc.

and free said something in another post that..."It seems people have three different parts to their being: the physical, the emotional, and the spiritual."

This chpt said "Visualize His hands gently and lovingly holding that person or willingly accepting that problem. Now, visualize His hands holding you."

I guess this is bothering me because, I've never had anyone to really hold, me gently and lovingly...My parents were never touchy feely...to this day we're not. And then if I'm honest, I don't think my husband was very affectionate, even when we first got married...I guess we would talk alot, but touchy feely, no...

So I guess I've always longed for a relationship like this from anyone, but at the same time it scares me.

I don't even know where I stand spiritually...Was raised catholic...but sort of left that...then around 1 year ago, I met this chaplin, who was a peace officer, and he was Christian, got me thinking about relationship with God, instead of religion...went to his church a couple of times, I would keep going maybe buts it's kind of far...people were huggy their but it was hard for me to do, although I wanted to...I guess I wanted to expierience the feeling of belonging and loving.

So i'm not sure where I am, or where I want to go with this...

February 4, 2007
11:23 am
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mj
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And that is okay! You are right where you are suppose to be in your recovery. You will find your answers!

I like hugs from safe people. I grew up with affection from my mom, sister, Aunts, one grandma, and I have experiences truly warm, loving hugs. I was able to share this with my daughters and now my grandchildren. For me, I can visualize a loving HP. Its an energy not a person. The hand holding is symbolic. The energy exists in my heart.

February 5, 2007
11:30 am
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soprano2
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Hello everyone!!!

Sorry I missed the study. I missed some good stuff on detachment.

I had someone explain detachment to me this way once, and it was really good advice.

Detachment is not pulling away from someone. Detachment is pulling away from someone's actions and reactions. This type of detachment teaches us that there is a big boundary line between what you do or say and how people act or react to what you do or what you say. It shows us that we do not have to be responsible for someone else's actions or reactions.

Now, as Armyleo says, it is very friggin' hard to do this. It is very easy to get emotional when someone is reacting in a way that we don't like, but it is possible.

A good example of this is:

Say you are in a relationship with someone who yells at you. Maybe not all of the time, but when you are having a conversation and it gets heated because you don't agree. What is the first thing that we want to do when someone yells at us? Of course, probably you are saying yell back. What if we decide to detach from the situation when the yelling starts. If there is only one person yelling, then there is no argument. If we yell back, then we are responsible for our not so good reactions. And usually the one person that is yelling feels like an idiot after a while. We choose not to react to what they are doing. Or, maybe we learn how to react in a healthy way no matter what.

That may be just saying:
"I need to walk away right now before I say something I may not need."
"I need a moment to collect my thoughts."
"I understand how you feel, let me think about it."
"Let's talk about this in a while."

These words may also cause a reaction, but we are not responsible for this reaction either. Does it look selfish? Yes, to someone who wants you to react to what they are saying. To others, it looks sensible. We don't let our kids yell at us (usually). Why do we let our husbands do it and get away with it.

It is a respect thing. And working on respect is always very difficult. Especially when someone is not used to giving you the respect that you deserve. But, if that person truly cares, they will learn that no matter what, they cannot get you to react to what they do.

It is a day by day and sometimes moment by moment thing--but I did it, and I did see a change (some strange looks at first, some poor words used at me, but when I stopped fighting, he knew that he couldn't get to me that way.)

And, Armyleo--I think that you do have this strength in you...you just need to find where you hid it.

s2

February 5, 2007
1:16 pm
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mj
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Thanks for that Soprano!

February 5, 2007
4:03 pm
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armyleo
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S2,

You touched on two things that I want to elaborate on...

"some poor words used at me,", sometimes my problem is that I'm too sentimental...He can say alot, and I seem to take alot...but when I want to talk serious with him, and I do have the chance, the words don't come, or they come all tumbled with tears, and then he hates, that, and tells me tears aren't going to move him...etc..but I don't cry for sympathy or for him to be moved, I guess the tears just come...does this make sense?

2nd it respect...I think when we've both said and done things...and respect is gone...after many years...it's hard find it from each other...

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