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Codependency is a myth
January 31, 2005
9:14 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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I think you're right, Sew. I don't really see this discussion being taken in a new direction and I think I've learned all I can. I'll continue looking at this thread and see if there is any insight here but I think we're on the verge of repeating ourselves and our viewpoints.

For what it's worth, I have been educated by the other points of view offerred here, even those contrary to mine.

Thank you all.

January 31, 2005
10:45 pm
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Worried_Dad
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To me, the take home lesson here is that it is worthwhile to really look at the patterns in people's lives--be careful about trying make a nice little package with bow.

Another lesson here is that we are pretty sensitive to each other's tone here, phalic. A firey guy like you is going to get a rise out of people now and then. I know that because I am a firey fellow myself and constantly have to watch my mouth.

Please tell me I'm getting better people.

January 31, 2005
10:58 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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WD,

I like that and I think a number of people on both sides have said that you can't just put people neatly into a box.

For what it's worth, I've found you to be quite balanced and gentle in all of your postings. But that's my point of view.

PL

February 1, 2005
12:33 am
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sewunique
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I am only one, but here is a smile for you, WD:)

February 1, 2005
12:37 am
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sewunique
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PL,
... as I said to you very early up here, those bristles can be tamed(????) yes, we are are a "caring, sensitive bunch here." And so very much that can be learned and gained, even from the softer voices.

February 1, 2005
1:02 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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Sew, I'm not sure if you are trying to correct me (ie. Tez's most recent entry) or reassure me but for what it's worth I agree that little voices sometimes speak the loudest.

February 1, 2005
1:23 am
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sewunique
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Pl,

No, I was not referring at all to what Tez posted. I am speaking for myself. I am a petite person, softer demeanor than you gruff guys; often overlooked by the bigger, taller people. My language is not so brief or eloquent, but I can get my point across pretty well. And I can be pretty tenacious at times.

Hell, I can even sound out with a roar, but rarely.

So I was also speaking of those who are quieter, the gentler ones, but have much to say. Make sense, now?

February 1, 2005
1:41 am
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Sew,

Believe it or not, your words carry more weight with me than most, even some of my own. Precicely because of what you pointed out, that you are quieter and gentler, and simpler your words have a Te'. You and Ren'ai and Worried Dad all have something I want.

I mention you three because you guys remind me of each other, and not out of favouritism. I like most of what I read from everyone who has contributed on the post and Free Willy.

PL

February 1, 2005
1:41 am
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sewunique
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And to add, that those 'bristles' of yours can be tamed; I hope, as your demeanor at times sounds like you feel you are being unfairly provoked or challenged. That reflects onto your writing, the reader being the recipient. That is what we are all trying to tell you. This is what I said to you at the beginning of this Codenpendency thread. Since you asked, I am trying to tell you straight out. What WD said that first day is good, too, to explain it quite plainly.

I hope this helps; you can stretch and grow, as we all do; can be a bit painful at times, good at others.

February 1, 2005
1:44 am
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sewunique
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Stretch and grow, my friend, stretch and grow.....

February 1, 2005
1:50 am
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And thank you for the compliment. We often do not hear our own words. That self doubting 'little professor' inside can play old records. That is why you will also see much emcouragement and validation here. Very important thru all the negativity that everyone is going thru.

You have it; seen your posts, you have shown compassion and encouragement.

Now it's 'roger and out' for me for a couple of days...........

February 1, 2005
2:01 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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Go well and have fun.

February 1, 2005
2:13 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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Have any of you seen a heffalump in here?

February 1, 2005
2:18 am
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Not yet. But in the space BETWEEN the support threads and here, I did see some unsettled dust in the distance...

February 1, 2005
2:21 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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I don't think they're here. Hmmm. Maybe someone needs our help back over there.

February 1, 2005
12:51 pm
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---No---But I did see a preview for the "Heffalump Movie" and just that little preview scared me more than the new release of "Dawn of the Dead."

Let me state, for the record, that in my personal experience the existence or non-existence of "codependence" has been argued since at least 1991. I think the "diagnosis" was "created" to cover people who are repeatedly drawn to relationships with people who have abusive or addictive characteristics as predominant traits. The idea is that there is a "pay off" for the other person involved with the addict/abuser, and until they realize what their "pay off" is and deal with it, they will be continually drawn to these kinds of relationships.

I would not have "labeled" myself codependent until I had a 4 year relationship with an alcoholic. My "pay off" was when she would get drunk and ugly, then forget what she did, she was very vulnerable, loving, and apologetic. It was during these times when I felt like she was really showing her love for me. Also, I got to be the 'victim' so I didn't feel I had to take much serious responsibility for how the relationship ended up. That was my motivation.

Not everyone is "codependent" all the time. Not everyone displays every characteristic of codependence all the time. It's something that seems to come and go for most people. For me, understanding my behaviors helped me learn more about who I am, and I began to look for something else.

I guess you can call it by any name, the fact of the matter is that there are some behaviors that are just not healthy, and I displayed plenty when I was with the alcoholic. I was just as sick and manipulative as she was, maybe more because I was sober enough to think and plan...

Regardless, we both own the shame, we have both recovered, and we remain friends. Not bad for a life lesson of such value...

Love to all,

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
5:24 pm
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...Come one, come Phalic...

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
5:57 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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Now you're talking dirty to me Ren'ai.

February 1, 2005
6:31 pm
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LOL!

I find nothing "dirty" in the afore mentioned statements!!! Playful? Certainly. Suggestive? Perhaps. Dirty? No way!!! You work out a lot, you probably shower a lot...

LOL, again! ; )

Love,

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
6:36 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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I might have to go take a shower right now. Your inuendos are impeccable.

I think your last post kind of says it all. I still think the term is overused and has been made overly fashionable and accessible.

Like credit cards I think it is overused with rather expensive results.

February 1, 2005
6:57 pm
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Yeah. Over-used.

The "diagnosis of the month" appears to be Bi-Polar Disorder. I keep on getting kids plastered with this label. So ridiculous. They are usually either suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or Reactive Attachment Disorder, which can look a lot like Bi-Polar disorder in the Diagnostics manual. I hate it! These kids are stuck on "big gun" psychotropic medications and end up like little zombies. Then it becomes almost impossible to treat the source of the stress, which is usually rooted in earlier trauma/abuse.

Codependency is a lot the same way. We are social creatures. We do need each other to a degree and to try and say we don't is a bunch of bullshit. I was thinking of your "No man is an island." remark. Even the island, at it's root, is connected to the earth. It's not just a mound of rocks floating on the water. We are also connected. Some of us on a more "surface" or "visable" level than others, but connected nonetheless in that our actions impact those around us.

We see ourselves as small, insignificant things and we are. We see ourselves as valuable, important creatures and we are...

It's all good.

Love,

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
7:09 pm
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Phalic,

I was waiting patiently for you to respond and then realized you must be in the shower...

Don't drop the soap unless you mean business. You have pissed off a lot of people here. Someone's bound to take advantage of an opportunity like that!

Tomorrow, then?

Love,

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
7:14 pm
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on my way
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Well, I don't need someone else to feel good before I feel good anymore. Maybe that makes me free from codependency?

February 1, 2005
7:20 pm
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Yes!!!

I gotta tell you, OMW, I kept on seeing these three letters and thought to myself "Who would get so worked up over using the initials for 'Oh My God' that they would feel they have to change it to 'Oh My Word'" I thought there was some really hardline person who was struggling not to take the Lord's name in vain by using the OMW instead of OMG! Today I was reading a post and finally figured out what the writer was referring to!!!

This is the kind of stupidity I usually don't share with others, but since we have our annonymoty here, please feel free to have a laugh at my expense!

Love,

Ren'ai

February 1, 2005
7:26 pm
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on my way
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Ok, LOL!!!!! I have trouble with some of the abbreviations too, must be my age. This is an interesting thread. Maybe one day we will figure it all out...I don't thik we can label it though, it is more of a personal experience type thing. But funny how many of us expereince the same emotions. But I feel like I just can't spend any more time and emotion for the codependency thing. I have done much work over the last couple of years, classes, study, read 1zillion books about it all, and I think it boils down to loving yourself is a process, love the process. We get caught up in too many spider webs, then sit around and look for the spider to chomp or something. Don't know about you but I just am ready to enjoy life, what ever that means.

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