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Codependency is a myth
January 26, 2005
1:21 am
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Phalic_Liberator
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Codependency is a myth. Come one. Come all.

January 26, 2005
2:33 am
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KWMike
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Chill, Man. What's bothering you?

January 26, 2005
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sc13
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We all have our opinions about our problems. I'm sure most people do a lot of research and soul-searching before labeling themselves, and perhaps many are still searching and trying to find a way out of their forest. I think it's wrong to tell people their opinions on their own problems is "wrong." That's your choice to do so if you want, this is a public forum, but don't be surprised if a lot of people stop speaking to you because you are being hard-headed and telling them what is right and wrong.
Who appointed you God and gave you all the knowledge of what's true and myth? I certainly don't listen to someone on a message board to tell me what's truth and fact when I have my own licensed therapist. I just come here for support when I need it. Perhaps if you can't give support when it's needed, then don't respond at all. It's comments liek the ones you've made on the support threads forum that make people close up and not want to post anymore for fear of being bashed and told they are "wrong."

January 26, 2005
12:37 pm
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Life is a myth. Like Tom Cruise says in "Collateral"--not verbatim, mind you--"Here we are, 6 billion people on one planet, one planet out of billions of stars with other planets and who knows how many life forms. I off one fat Angelino and you throw a hissy fit." He kinda has a point...

Love to all,

Ren'ai

January 26, 2005
1:44 pm
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sc13
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Twinks, there is only one post on there, is there another thread I'm not seeing?

January 26, 2005
2:05 pm
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bel
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To each his own........

Bel

January 26, 2005
2:14 pm
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sewunique
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sc13

FYI,

Go to that thread. At the top of it it has where you can click on "view all posts". Then it will come up for you.

Also, at the top of the page of the thread titles, you can click if you want to view posts for one day, one week, one month etc. How you set up your site viewing is up to youu.

January 26, 2005
2:19 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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SC13,

Awww. Poor bear. Did I hurt someone's feelings? Do you need to be coddled and cuddled? Have you not had your religious helping of bullshit cookies today? Do you think you're being just a skosh, dare I say it, CODEPENDENT?

I've seen the support threads. They're still going strong despite my assault on the status quo. Did you not see my post at the end of that thread? Do you really think you are shedding any light on anything that hasn't already been revealed to me?

If you want to argue the validity of codependence as a disease model I suggest you do that. Don't use this as an opportunity to reproach me for something that I have already amended.

Way to miss the point.

HUGS!! PL

January 26, 2005
2:26 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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KWMike,

The concept of codependence is bothering me. The fact that you're trying to pussyfoot around the issue is bothering me too.

PL

Renai,

Would you kindly expand on that? It looks like you've got something interesting to say. I haven't seen the movie but it looks like you're making some intellectual connections that I'm missing out on.

PL

January 26, 2005
2:26 pm
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sewunique
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Sc13 and Phalic,

You both have a point. Guess some, as I will be offended by Phalics crude remarks. Others may not.

Phalic,

I guess what bothers me most, is at times you offer strong support. Sadly, at other times you come on harsh as how you posted to SC13 and KWMike. Your inconsistency is confusing. You offer support, then attack. Very hard to accept support when one is so 'prickly'.

Just my take on it.

Sew

January 26, 2005
2:32 pm
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sewunique
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See thread; from the beginning of the thread dated Dec 6, 2004 and the strong discussions that followed, by some very astute posters the days following that first date of Dec 6.

Right, Twinks;)?

January 26, 2005
2:44 pm
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sewunique
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Phalic,

"The concept of codependence is bothering me. The fact that you're trying to pussyfoot around the issue is bothering me too"

I am glad it is bothering you. You are searching for some answers and reasoning WHY this is bothering you.

Whether or not one believes codependency fits them, whether or not codepency is not estblished as a 'disease; by the DVM format, is not so much the issue. The point is, that there is SOMETHING that we find in our lives that is not working to cause us to react, think and behave as we do in situations or relationships.

Yes, coda can be overstated. Yes, it is often misused. Yes, it can be used to "LABEL" to make things more clear of WHAT ACTUALLY IS THE PROBLEM?

Bottom, line, we are ALL here for one reason or another. For support. For advice. To be heard. To tell somebody we are important and we are hurt and confused and want somehow to get thru the muddle, from the pits of hell and out of the cave of darkness into the light for a better life.

Sew

January 26, 2005
2:49 pm
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on my way
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It is a myth if we allow anything negative to have power over us. For me, it could be termed a myth as I believe in God, and that he can heal. But cody becomes real, when I give it power....just to answer the question.Quite a thought provoking one!

January 26, 2005
2:50 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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Sew,

Honey and Vinegar. White and Black. Right and Wrong. Good and Evil. Carrot and Stick.

Duality, balance.

Have you ever tried a Honey, Mustard vinegrette dressing? Yummy!

You should read the Tao of Poo and the Te' of Piglet, if you haven't already.

They're by Ben Hoff.

PL

January 26, 2005
2:51 pm
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sc13
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Amen sewunique!! I was not trying to say codependency is a fact and I truly believe in it, etc, etc, nor was I saying Phalic was wrong for NOT believing in it. All I was saying was I don't like to see people who are trying to get help told that their views and opinions are "wrong" and why they're wrong. I think everyone (all of us) is here for guidance and help of any kind, and should not be told what is right or wrong. We're all hurting in some way or we probably wouldn't be here, we all need all the help we can get. There's no need for harsh words or criticism, or to be told "aww poor bear, do you need cuddled." I think that's very immature to say something like that. Especially considering the respecful and intelligent way most of your posts are worded Phalic. I was really surprised.

January 26, 2005
2:53 pm
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Phalic,

There are guidelines on these discussions. You've adhered to them fairly well except for these comments:

"Awww. Poor bear. Did I hurt someone's feelings? Do you need to be coddled and cuddled? Have you not had your religious helping of bullshit cookies today? Do you think you're being just a skosh, dare I say it, CODEPENDENT?"

Respect is important on these boards. Codependency may be just a generic label for a host of insecurities, but your words fall clearly into the category of aggression. If you have something to say, please take the additional time to figure out how to do it with respect.

Please, everyone, keep the talk at an adult level on these boards.

January 26, 2005
2:54 pm
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sewunique
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Keep posting, Phalic, stretch a little more. I know you're here for a reason. Keep it coming!

Smile from Sew

January 26, 2005
2:59 pm
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sewunique
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Phalic,

I do see grey, as to black and white, and red and blue and many colours of the spectrum, and this question.

If life was only black and white, wouldn't it be simplier? Even our laws governed by educated groups of people have ambiguities in the interpretation of them.

If life were only black and white, there would be not colour to our world. How boring is that?

Still smiling, Sew

January 26, 2005
3:37 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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I am here for a reason. To pack all that I can into the stream of life. If that challenges people's perspectives enough for them to challenge mine, all the better. I consider that there is an absolute truth that none of us may truly ever see.

Consider that music is the most pure form of argument there is. Each song filling a space, sometimes small, sometimes vast, with notes that satisfy the listener's curiosity for phrases that ring true with both the expected and the unexpected.

On first listening a song catches us off gaurd with its direction. We think that a pattern is established and the next note seems predictable but then the maestro changes something, either nuanced or dramatic, and our consideration is thusly alterred.

Here we are all discussing the nature of something. None of us can claim that we are the maestro but all of us can say we are listeners. Argument is neccessary to shed light on the truth, however elusive.

Another reason I am here is because Alcoholics Anonymous, a once thriving concern, is now irrelevant. It has become poluted with multiple streams of thought that have corroded the Big Book's meaning and sabotaged a message that could once be conveyed with merit and accountability.

The codependence movement, among others, is partly responsible for the loss of efficacy within that organization. In arguing my point, and challenging the rest of you in this regard, my intention is to better acquaint myself with my enemy.

Sun Tsu's Art of War says that to achieve victory one must know the enemy intamately. That is what is occuring here. I am knowing the enemy by trying to understand the truth.

The Big Book says that we cease fighting anyone and anything. Taoism echos this sentiment by acknowleging the power of yielding. Consider if you will, that I am a child throwing rocks into a stream. I watch the ripples that I create and become further acquainted with the nature of things.

In becoming acquainted with the nature of things, I cease fighting and yield correctly, thusly overthrowing my oponent.

January 26, 2005
4:13 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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Sew,

I think I know what you're talking about.

"Music is the space between notes."

~ Claude DeBussey

I submit to you that proper duality leads us to the grey area.

PL

January 26, 2005
4:22 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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Twinks,

Hmmm..

I am only responding to posts here however if you feel you can glean something the initial thread was titled "Codependance".

I should state that I am well aware that some of you view my statements as inappropriate. Chastising me further is inconsequential.

If you have a valid argument that is contrary to my point of view please submit it.

If you cannot find words above a bellicose reitteration of your belief in codependence I suggest you try harder.

January 26, 2005
4:33 pm
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Okay. First off, I was in NO WAY advocating murder as a solution to any problem...

That said, my point is this: Sometimes we get very wrapped up in the labels of what the problems are. I don't think one necessarily has to KNOW the labels to address the problems.

And my point in repeating the stuff from the movie "Collateral" is that there is a HUGE picture here that we can easily miss when we are distracted by things like the "why's" and "what now's". For me, sometimes it just feels comforting to sit back and look at the big picture. If you don't know what I mean, please visit the Hubble Telescope Website and enjoy some amazing pictures of the world we live in.

I believe when we start to think of things on the grander scale, things like codependency become very small. What I come to realize is that sure, I have lots of codependent traits. That doesn't mean I'm not a wonderful person with some things of value and importance to contribute to this Great Universe. It also means, at the same time, that the universe is so great that my contributions won't make or break it.

Yeah, I'm a fuck up. But the world keeps turning. People continue to die. Babies continue to be born. Wars continue to be fought. And the earth is now knocked off its axis by an inch since the tsunami. We've lost one second of "time" per day. To me, that's a much bigger deal than my chronic pain, my suicidal ideations, my fat, my "divorce". We are now talking about something that has changed on a cosmic level.

And yet, compared with the Great Universe, even that is such a small, small thing. This is why I don't understand war. I don't understand abuse. We have such bigger things to ponder. Life is hard. Why do we make it so much harder for each other?

Love to ALL,

Ren'ai

PS: Phalic, I gotta ask, what's with the name? It's so unique and I love it!!!

January 26, 2005
4:37 pm
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hubblesite.org

Awesome...

Love,

Ren'ai

January 26, 2005
4:51 pm
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sewunique
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Phalic,

I am smiling between those notes. And there are many songs to be heard.

In reference to your post back to me, you are very clever with the words....hope to see it on the upscale, or as here, with the challenge of stretching one's self.

Sew

January 26, 2005
4:55 pm
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Phalic_Liberator
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Ren'ai

I did not think that you were advocating murder as a solution, just in case you thought I was.

Thanks for your reply.

I agree with your big-picture view on life. I, too, struggle with the validity of war and a lot of the other things that we all have to capacity to impose on one another.

You also just stated the nature of the problem as I see it: That we all have codependent traits. Unfortunatly what has come to pass is that these are considerred things, in our nature, that we have to actively suppress in order to achieve an ideal versus codependency.

The result is chaos and an inability to distinguish right from wrong. The ideal to be achieved, in very many ways, resembles that of sociopathology. There is more to say that supports my view but I'd like to hear more of your thoughts.

What's with the name? I came up with it out of Intuitive Thought. I personally can't take myself too seriously with such a preposterous moniker. Hopefully that sentiment is reflected in those who might be lent to taking me too seriously as well. I don't think it's possible to be offended by someone with such a comedic name and if they are it is simply because my words may have come into too much contact with a truth inside of them.

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