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Chapter 9 (Melody's Book) UNdependence
March 1, 2007
11:13 pm
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ggfred4
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mj, I have to say something. I have been struggling with the book studies once we got past the first few chapters. The questions are tough to answer honestly and really tear into my soul. Honestly, it scares me. Now I am wondering, am I ready for this. I want to change though. Is this too fast for me? I don't know...

March 1, 2007
11:17 pm
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mj
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Only you know. I find that change takes a lot of work. It is painful and requires lots of effort. I have to practice daily because my past behaviors are so hard to break. Do I think that it is worth the effort? Hell Yes. I feel better more often and feel stronger each day. You need to be the judge of what feels comfortable for you.

March 1, 2007
11:18 pm
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mj
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What are you afraid of? Have you ever did a fourth step?

March 1, 2007
11:20 pm
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ggfred4
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I don't know what I am afraid of. I seem to have too many fears. Fourth step? Are you talking about giving things up to God? that step?

March 1, 2007
11:20 pm
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mj
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Fear is False Evidence appearing Real

Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.

God Grant me the Serenity,

To Accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to Change the things I can,

And the Wisdom to know the difference.

March 1, 2007
11:22 pm
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mj
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The fourth step is the searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. It is an essence taking a inventory of reality. No judgement, just an picture of where we are today.

March 1, 2007
11:25 pm
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ggfred4
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I don't know what I am feeling; I guess feeling even scares me too. I just know that I was all ready for the challenge, got the books, even got a boundary book, got a good start, then when I got into it, found out that it was so hard dealing with my feelings; facing my feelings.

No, I am not backing out, I am moving forward, just having some worries here.

March 1, 2007
11:26 pm
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mj
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I take mini inventory's daily to keep reality in perspective. Its like sometimes I might deny reality. I want to live in a more comfortable fantasy land where nothing can hurt me. It doesn't work. Reality is reality. I like to face it head on and deal with each problem as it arises so I don't get too overwhelmed. What are you really afraid of? That you won't like who you see or there will be nothing left of who you have pretended to be???? For me, I have always tried to be positive even when i feel like dying. That is my false self. It is a survival technique I learned in childhood. It doesn't work anymore in adulthood. Most of my childhood coping mechanisms don't work now.

March 1, 2007
11:26 pm
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ggfred4
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mj, I have got to get to bed, I am so tired. I am glad we got to share tonight. I always learn from other people's shares here. So thank you for your effort here tonight. ttyl...
((((((mj))))))

March 1, 2007
11:29 pm
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mj
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Feeling feelings is a hard one especially when you were told that your feelings were wrong, not wanted to be shared, or that someone else didn't benefit by hearing how you felt. Feelings are important. They are the barometers of telling us if we are safe or in harm. Sometimes all our childhood triggers have made our thoughts misinterpret reality so we are trigger happy. I know for me, I have been practicing saying what I feel. It is really uncomfortable. Especially when I feel angry.

March 1, 2007
11:29 pm
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mj
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((((GG))))) Thank you too!

March 1, 2007
11:31 pm
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ggfred4
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just came back and saw your last post...about your question..."What are you really afraid of?" I have to think on that one...thanks for that question, I need to think about that. If I come up with an answer, I will let you know...good nite mj!

March 1, 2007
11:31 pm
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mj
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Good night Dear and God Bless YOU

March 2, 2007
12:55 pm
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mj
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I am doing some work this morning on looking at my childhood and acknowledging the abuse and neglect that existed. The question is "What neglect or abuse did you experience in childhood?" I am utilizing another book FACING CODEPENDENCE and her description of covert and overt abuse. It is very helpful. Also I would like to recommend the Codependents Anonymous Blue Book for working the steps of recovery. Step one is a powerful step. We admitted we were powerless over others and that our lives are unmanageable.

Thanks Ras for posting this weeks study and for all that participated. Any one interested in posting this weeks Chapter?

March 2, 2007
12:59 pm
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mj
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Also, is anyone interested in changing the time or day of the online study? It seems like this day and time isn't working presently or do you want to forgo altogether an online study time? I am frusturated with the lack of interest. I want to participate but feel like giving up on the study if the interest continues to wane. Let me know what you think and any opinions, comments, or vents about how to make this study more successful. Its our study so you're imput is important.

March 2, 2007
3:05 pm
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Rasputin
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((((SWEET MJ)))) So Sorry hon for being left alone yesterday. After I posted yesterday, I was exhausted, did not sleep enough hours the nite b4 and thus fell asleep on my pc and simply turned it off. After all I said all I wanted to say and had nothing to add. Therefore, I thought that I would check back the following day.

Yes, I noticed the lack of interest, dunno why. It's a great pity, coz this theme of CD is just vital to our growth.

What I suggest to you Mj is probably to post and check some other time. Coz remember this is not chat room and people post when it is convenient for them. I know sometimes you have an overflow of people posting at the same time which is GREAT. But such a thing is not guaranteed always. So please hon don't get Frustrated! May be we can post a thread downstairs telling people about this thread and our interest in their participation since this side is not visited as much as the other one.

That could help to bring in more folks over here!

I find the study here VERY INTRIGUING and would love to continue on this study.

(((GG))) Thanks hon for accompanying Mj. She was all alone. I really hope and pray that some more folks would come over and join us soon.

I'm having some heartburn lately, indulged in so much cookies today. Naughty Ras!!! LOL. Don't know if I can take over the next chapter. I hope so anyway!

Mj, you questioned very interesting questions on this thread that really demand so much introspection and digging deep into our past, childhood esp with the usage of pics. It really makes more able to monitor our progress. So, I am not sure if we can resume to the next chapter if you want to continue pondering and discussing these questions. May be you can carry them thru to the next chapter, yep, why not!

See you soon!

March 2, 2007
3:15 pm
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mj
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Ras, orginally this book study was to be at 7:30 Pacific time. I didn't create that time, I am joining a book study at that time. I did not feel alone last night. I felt angry because I felt responsible for the decline in posting. I felt like because I was posting that no one wanted to continue with this study. I wanted to take care of myself by expressing my anger at wasting my time on this study. I am capable of taking care of myself. I feel like you are trying to take care of me and that is not what I need. I asked for suggestions on changing the time or eliminating the online study time. I appreciate that you are trying to help but I feel like you aren't minding your business. I feel like you are trying to rescue me. I don't like it. I appreciate that you posted last weeks thread but none of us are in charge of only ourselves. You can choose to post or not just like I can choose. I don't want to feel manipulated into choosing. This study is beginning to be not a study at all for me but a reoccurring theme in my world of people committing to do something and then not following through. You either do it or you don't. You make a choice and follow through or you bow out. Having said that, I think I will take care of myself and bow out.

March 2, 2007
3:27 pm
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Rasputin
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Mj - Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was not rescuing you by any means. Being sensitive to people's needs is Not by any means a rescue. At least this is how I see it. To me to rescue is to neglect/suppress your own needs just to please others.

I was not doing that, therefore I don't find my behaviour toward you codep in any way.

I was just concerned, thougthful and being genuinely empathetic. This is what I call "unconditional love" toward one another.

I hope the misunderstanding is lifted off!

March 2, 2007
4:47 pm
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mj
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I just reread Chapter 8 about rescuing and enabling. Hi, Im mj a codependent. I still need practice.

Ras, I felt like you were telling me how I am feeling. I didn't feel alone, I felt ostracized. I appreciate the fact that you state that you are being sensitive to my needs. To me, I felt like you were telling me I felt alone. I felt angry. I will continue to practice how to ask for what I need.

March 2, 2007
4:53 pm
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mj
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Is anyone interested in changing the time or day of the online study? It seems like this day and time isn't working presently or do you want to forgo altogether an online study time? I am frusturated with the lack of interest. I want to participate but feel like giving up on the study if the interest continues to wane. Let me know what you think and any opinions, comments, or vents about how to make this study more successful. Its our study so you're imput is important.

Does these questions feel controlling to anyone? Or do they seem to be asking for what I need. A book study where people share what they are learning by reading this book. I want to learn and grow. I don't want to rescue or enable. I want to work on my communication skills and learn to change my unhealthy behaviors.

March 2, 2007
6:06 pm
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bevdee
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MamaC

I wanted to check on you. How are you doing? You feelin ok?

March 2, 2007
6:59 pm
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bevdee
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Hey MJ

I posted my thoughts to the chapter a couple of days early. I have a guest this week, so it hasn't been as easy to stay at the pc for an hour at a time.

You stated - "I want to participate but feel like giving up on the study if the interest continues to wane." Maybe you can still finish the book, even if the book study falls away.

I like that each week/chapter is a different thread. Sometimes not everyone can get together, due to other obligations or just unexpected stuff.

I was in and out last night, butI wondered, after you stated your intention to quit and bumped up all the previous chapter threads if you are angry.

Army - I hope you are doing ok- and reading along if not talking. Is he behaving? (((Army)))

GG- I know exactly what you mean when you say - "The questions are tough to answer honestly and really tear into my soul. Honestly, it scares me." Sometimes I can rush into this self-honesty headlong, and other times I almost trip running backwards. I know how you feel. I read this book 10 years ago and again 5 years ago, and as time progresses, I still learn the impact my childhood has on all my relationships. And on my perceptions. Do what you can and hold your head high.

MamaC - sending you and everyone positive thoughts.

My guest is ill, so I have to run for a little bit and finish chicken soup, well it's gonna be half soup and half dumplin's!! I'm trying to be all hospitable and holistic and natural. I'll catch everyone later.

Bevdee

March 2, 2007
7:58 pm
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mj
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Thanks Bevdee...I have read the book in entirety a few times. Each time through has been even more helpful. Glad you are taking care of yourself. I noticed that you were posting last night to gg on another thread and figured you weren't interested in posting on the book study as well.

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