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Can any of you convince me there is a God??
April 11, 2008
2:59 pm
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Anonymous
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Just wondering!! I know what I believe, and I don't believe in God. I could explain why, but, it really doesn't matter truly.

The fact is, I don't. Why should I?? I know the Bible. I know what I was tought for several years of my life. I also know that I feel that it is not possible given my history to find that belief on my own.

I used to pray and do devotions and even listen to Christian CD's. I can't do it anymore. I cry, out of anger. I believed in something that didn't exist. Not as I was tought. A loving and merciful God cannot possibly exist in my mind. Or in my life.

The last time I stepped foot in church, I shook and cried to a point that was not controllable. I believed in something that failed me. Something that I cannot be convinced loved me, and died for me.

April 11, 2008
3:42 pm
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StronginHim77
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I wish that I could help, but no one was ever able to convince me that there was a God...let alone a God Who loved me or cared about me. And was willing and moved to HELP me.

Today, I have alot of faith in Him or I could never have survived some of the trials and losses which have come my way. But, I didn't arrive at this position of faith and trust in Him, until I was 36. If I can offer any encouragement or support, I will be glad to try.

- Ma Strong

April 11, 2008
4:24 pm
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HopeSprings
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I have seen a mother at a crib

So I know what love is.

I have looked into the eyes of a child

So I know what faith is.

I have seen a rainbow

I have felt the pounding of the sea

So I know what power is.

I have planted a tree

So I know what hope is.

I have heard a wild bird sing

So I know what freedom is.

I have lost a friend

So I know what sorrow is.

I have seen a star decked sky

So I know what the infinite is.

I have seen and felt all these things

So I know what GOD is.

April 11, 2008
4:41 pm
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on my way
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Sweet Peas,
Only if you want to, will you tell what happened to you to make you not believe?

April 11, 2008
4:44 pm
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I suffered some great traumas as a child, that make me question. Where was this God during that time of my life?

April 11, 2008
5:26 pm
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nevereverihope
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NO....I am alive tho, after being in a very very physically abusive relationship, actually having an outerbody experience. Seriously, there must a damn good reason why I am here, I just cant figure it out?..

April 11, 2008
5:27 pm
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on my way
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Well, according to God's character, He was there. But I know you are probably wondering why He would allow those traumas to happen to you as a defenseless child, because they have affected your adult life?

I don't know the answer to that. I could give you my 'theological' answer to this question, but I think more than an answer of that nature, you may be looking for an answer that would eliminate that disappointment and hurt you feel. To believe in an all powerful being, and then wonder where he went to, is very traumatic.

I can share that I had traumas as a child and as an adult. For me at some point, when I was 17, I wondered where God was. I knew he was there somewhere, but not active in my life. I knew I wanted my life to change but didn't know how. I was angry at alot of people, and didn't understand why God hadn't fixed it! I never understood that he wanted me, I mean how could he after what I had done?

I finally gave it up. Told him I didn't know where he had been all of my life and that I was angry at him. I yelled, I cried, I cursed, I shook my fist. Someone showed me that he loved me anyway. And someone showed me that he loved all the people who had hurt me, and I am like, 'oh yeah, right!' I didn't understand all of it, but when I gave it up and turned it all over, my life started to go much better....not so much easier at times, but oh so much better.

I can identify a bit of where you are, but of course I have never walked in your shoes. Please know that this site is a safe site to talk about feelings and what has happened in our lives. No judgements, just people wanting to help if they can. I hope you find solace if only in that. Take care and love yourself. Keep writing if you would like to share more.

April 11, 2008
6:03 pm
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HopeSprings
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Sweet Peas,

There is no proof, but faith is what God will reward you for.

Hebrews 11:1 says - "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Hebrews 11: 6 says "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

God's message is very clear. Hebrews 10:38 " Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

You must have faith in the evidence of things not seen. It's in the Word of God.

April 11, 2008
6:03 pm
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SP, i'm an athiest too, just so you dont feel alone. Was a strong believer before etc.

April 11, 2008
6:35 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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SP,
do you want to believe in God? I asked this once on this site and she thought I was being sarcastic. I'm not. I am really curious.

April 11, 2008
8:07 pm
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April 11, 2008
8:18 pm
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Anonymous
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That wasn't supposed to happen.

Anyway, do I want to believe in God? Well, I suppose I want to believe in something. Life after death confuses me all together.

I do wonder where God was when I was being physically beaten and sexually assaulted as a small child. I get upset when I read things like, Psalm 27:10, "Though my mother and father forsake me, the Lord will recieve me."

I get upset when I read that if I trust God that he will protect me.

My heart longs for unconditional love. I can't even tell you how angry I am that I believed all of that. Even as an adult, I can't help but question, why? Not just for me, but for all children. They are so helpless, and so innocent. I just don't get it.

While I was getting my head slammed up against walls, and pushed down stairs, and being raped, and my innocence taken away WHERE WAS GOD??

If He was real, if He exists why hasn't the pain faded. Several years later, why do I still suffer??

Where is He??

Ma, did you just wake up one morning believing or what?

Hope Springs, thanks for your poem. Did you write that? I can appreciate all of that, but it is going to take something life altering at this point to convince me of a God...one that is loving.

I feel lost, and I feel alone. I don't know. I am angry. Sometimes, I try to say that. But, I don't know.

April 11, 2008
8:18 pm
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red blonde
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I wouldn't know what to say to you..

Trying to convince you that there is a God would be equal to your trying to convince me that there isn't a God.

I believe God is a personal experience, no amount of teaching or reading or hearing lectures or listening to sermons can convince anyone that there is a God. No religion, no culture, no creed, no belief and no faith can make one believe or not believe in a God. You might be easier trying to catch the wind.

April 11, 2008
8:18 pm
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red blonde
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I wouldn't know what to say to you..

Trying to convince you that there is a God would be equal to your trying to convince me that there isn't a God.

I believe God is a personal experience, no amount of teaching or reading or hearing lectures or listening to sermons can convince anyone that there is a God. No religion, no culture, no creed, no belief and no faith can make one believe or not believe in a God. You might be easier trying to catch the wind.

April 11, 2008
8:20 pm
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red blonde
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oops!

April 11, 2008
8:28 pm
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Red,

While I am trying to swallow what you just typed, I am likely to try to convince people of something that I believe in. I don't believe in anything without reason. Whether it is what I was taught or whatever. There is a reason for everything that I believe. Healthy, unhealthy, or what have you. I think I would want to take a deep look within if I couldn't explain why I believed in anything. There is a reason behind everything that we believe I think.

Just my opinion.

April 11, 2008
9:41 pm
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red blonde
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Sweet Peas,

You stated that you do not believe in God. I must be misunderstanding. Do you want to be convinced that there is a God or do you want to maintain your belief that there isn't a God? If you do not believe in God...what could I say to convince you that there is?

Do you want to know why I believe in God?

Are we talking God or religion here?

Red

April 11, 2008
9:55 pm
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Here is a poem that help me understand the big Godly scheme of things...

My life is just a weaving
Between my God and me
I do not choose the colors
He works steadily
Sometimes he weaves sorrow
And I in foolish pride
Forget he sees the upper
and I the underside
Not till the loom is silent
And shuttles cease to fly
Will God unroll the canvas
And explain the reason why
The dark threads are as useful
In the skillful weaver’s hand
As are the gold and silver
In the pattern he has planned

Dont know the author.

April 11, 2008
9:57 pm
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I have always belonged to a "christian" church. However, I don't know that I don't believe in God as much as I don't know what to believe. I want to believe something. At this point, I don't believe, yet I do.

I fear heaven and hell, yet I fear nothing. Does that make sense?

Yes, Red, I guess, I would like to know why you believe in God.

Religion makes no difference. I just can't seem to get it. How do people go through the crap that most of us on this site have, and still believe in a loving and merciful God? People here lean on Him, and trust him, and claim He brought them through.

Me?? I am angry, and struggle to believe that if He is what I was taught, why did I have to suffer? Why did any of us? I also say, that why are we depending on someone to pull us through that could have stopped it from the start?

Why didn't He protect me? If he is real, why didn't he protect you?

I just don't get it.

I have many great things in my life. Wonderful children, and many other things. Yet, I watch them suffer too. If God is real, where is He? I guess I struggle to see the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, and happiness abound to those who don't deserve it. Perpetrators are protected, and forgiven, while I still suffer?

This is all in the hands and work of a God??

April 11, 2008
10:00 pm
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Just an addendum.... I never felt my higher power concept left me down, but really the double standard people who I thought followed that same concept. After I separated the two, I knew where my disappointment really was.

April 11, 2008
11:08 pm
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red blonde
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Sweet Peas

This is going to be difficult to explain. I do believe in "God" - I have always believed in God, I still believe in God - even though for the past year or so, I have been wavering in my thoughts and feelings. I want to believe that He loves me and protects me and that some of the things that have been happening - good things - wonderful things are His showing me His love. And then on the other hand, I am scared..because I sometimes am afraid that He hates me and these wonderful things ...are merely His playing a cruel joke on me. Like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.

April 12, 2008
10:11 am
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Dear Sweet Peas -

No. I didn't just wake up one morning, believing in God. It was never that simple.

I can relate to your history. I was first molested at the age of 2-1/2. I was in/out of foster homes, until nearly 6. I have been beaten, till I had to be hospitalized (although the parent who beat me was never prosecuted.)

By the age of 18, I was depressed, suicidal, angry and utterly agnostic/atheist, despite being raised both Catholic AND Methodist (got exposed to both). Forget "God." My life was hell. That said it all in my book. "Jesus" was just a cuss word...on a GOOD day, ok?

Then -- at age 36 -- I had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ that changed the course of my life. He healed my body AND my broken, ravaged heart. I was seriously ill with tumors. Inoperable tumors. My husband (now deceased) and I had a toddler, little money (we existed in a trailer), no insurance and no hope. That was when I had my astonishing encounter with Jesus.

It rewrote my theology. Remember, I was an intellectual. I had been to college. I had been the HORROR of my professors, known for arguing a point right down the line, until they would crack. No one could convince me of anything I did not choose to believe. Firsthand. But I met Him. And my life has never been the same.

First, He healed my body of those tumors. Right there...in the family room of that little trailer. And then, even more miraculously, He healed my broken heart. Lifted all the pain and bitterness and fear out of me. Completely delivered me. Filled me with a peace I had never before experienced.

Did my life change after that encounter? Oh yes. Amazingly. Today, I am an ordained minister. I minister to people who would rather drop dead, than set foot in a traditional church (I don't blame them. I find traditional church BORING and legalistic.) But when I pray for them, they feel Him. They KNOW He is real and that He loves them. There is great joy in my calling.

And where was He when all those evil,terrible, grievous things were happening to me throughout my lifetime? Well, I learned the truth. That Satan is real. That the devil exists. That he is the perpetrator of hatred, cruelty and evil. That this earth is his turf. And that each of us has a choice: to turn to God for strength, deliverance and protection, or to yield our lives to demonic oppression and attack.

Has my life become magically "pain" and "trouble-free," since becoming a Christian 20+ years ago? Not necessarily. I have endured the deaths of many loved ones, including my precious late husband. I have had to battle to survive, financially, since being widowed. I have many days when I am weary and worn. But He always lifts me up. He always delivers. He always heals. And He has never left me or abandoned me, as so many of my own family members/former friends did.

This is my story. I have tried to keep it short. To sum it up, I can only share that each of us finds Him on our own timetable, in our own way. And that there is nothing that can supplant the power of a personal encounter with Him when you KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW that He is real and that your life will never be the same again. And you receive the life-transforming peace which comes with that revelation.

- Ma Strong

April 12, 2008
12:24 pm
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Sweetpeas,

Many years ago, I wrote these same words. I too was brought up in a church and still go. I too was raped, and beaten and molested by many people in my family including my mother and father. I too have asked, "Where was God".

After many years of therapy and talking to christian counselors and my pastor I have come to a good place in my faith once again. But it took many tears and many years. The fight was worth it, and my faith is strong.

You are right, many yrs after escaping my childhood of hell, moving away from all of them, I found myself in very deep emotional pain. Those pains, were what I like to call, "growing pains", "healing pains". It felt like I was in MORE pain AFTER I moved away, than when I was in it, sometimes. But had it not been for that pain, I would not have searched for help (therapy) and therefore healing.

For me it took many yrs in therapy to slowly peel away the layers of abuse and hurt. I do not regret a dime of what I paid!! I am healed, I am whole. I am free! And I give God all of the credit for answering my prayers: "God heal me from this pain, heal me from this past". And He did.

When God created this earth, He created it in the most beautiful and perfect way. Then He created Adam and Eve to also be perfect. BUT, God created them TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES. Thats where sometimes I say to God, "well why'd you go and do a stupid thing like that?!".

I have been taught (and I like this explaination) is that God did it bc love isnt love if you dont have a choice in the matter. He didnt want to create us like robots where we have no choices on anything or on who to love. He didnt want a bunch of pre-programmed people to have no choice in loving Him. Thats not what love is. True honest and genuine Love is a choice, and He knew that.

Sadly, He also knew the downside to creating us to make our own choices. .. humans are selfish, therefore, they are going to tend to do things that they want to do, right or wrong, and not always what God wants.

Adam and Eve were the first example of this. God said, "you can have anything in this garden but that tree over there". And what did they do? They ate the dang apple from that forbidden tree!! (I'm gonna kick theire butt when I see them someday!).

Anyway, the world was perfect before they took that first bite of the apple . There was no sin, no cancer or mental illness, no alcoholism, no death, no diseases, no dead trees in the forest..the world and everything about it was perfect. (this is found in Genesis).

But once they took that bite, they became selfish and sinful and humans from then on out would be born with a sinful nature. Disease and cancer and mental illness and death would then enter our world.

Fast forward to my childhood and yours. A selfish, sinful, possibly mentally ill or addicted person enters your world. In my case, my parents, uncle and boss. They knew right and wrong, believed in God, but ignored Gods teachings.

When the moment struct them, they beat the crap out of me. When they wanted to please themselves, they sexually abused and raped me. It was easier for them to give in to their sick needs, than to try to overcome it with therapy and probably medications. Thats the nature of an extremely selfish self centered person..."Its all about ME, and MY needs and MY desires and wants".

Trying to overcome that takes work and effort, more work and effort than giving into their impulses. It was easier to do what they felt like doing in the moment, than to think about "What would Jesus want me to do". Thats the problem...they didnt think at all...they just impulsively did it.

So where was God in all of this? He never left my side. Not through any of it. And that is difficult for some people to understand. At one point it was difficult for me to understand.
But just like that poem "Footprints", now that I am on the other side, completely healed and whole, I can now see the footprints of how God helped me through those times and through my healing.

For me, I believe He was there all along protecting me from death (although there were times I prayed for death). He was there crying with me. He was there keeping me from becoming insane so that I could later on in life, heal, and go on and use my knowledge and my heart to help others through the pain of abuse. (Romans 8:28).

He was there in my healing, as I worked through my therapy, providing good loving therapists to help guide me to the path of healing and wholeness. And He was there in my therapy sessions as I purged my mind and heart of all of the pain and betrayals that I endured.

And years later, He was there as I went to graduate school, giving me the knowledge and patience to learn how to be a counselor in the mental health field.

Here on earth, the only sign of God we may sometimes see, is through God's people, those truely devoted to Him and His word. And in my life, God never failed to provide for me a good christian counselor, church, friends and coworkers. I didnt usually talk about my past to my friends or coworkers but their faith in God helped build my own faith.

I encourage you to seek a christian counselor to answer your questions and to help you deal with your anger at God. Perhaps someone in your church is trained for counseling, maybe even your pastor. As I said, I have a great christian pastor and counselor who let me be mad at God when I needed to be mad at Him. But most importantly, I have a God who can handle my anger and doubts and questions...and He still loves me unconditionally.

There are also some good books written by some wonderful authors on this subject. Max Lucado has written some books. He's one of my favorites. There is another book called " When bad things happen to good people" thats pretty good. Theres another one called "When God doesnt make sense". And then I think there is one written by Billy Graham.

Your faith will become stronger, when you seek your answers. God promises us that when He said "Seek and ye shall find".

I'm so glad I used my anger energy to storm into that christian counselors office and pastors office demanding explainations and verses!

Remember, It is when we seek, that we find.

Thewall

April 14, 2008
12:41 pm
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(((((TheWall))))

I think I really needed to hear all of what you said to Sweet Peas...and
it was wonderful!

I haven't been to church (except for weddings ...etc. ) in over 30 years.
Been thinking of starting to go again...

Thank you, again!

Red

April 14, 2008
8:21 pm
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Oh sweet peas, I am so sorry for the trauma you suffered. i could spout platitudes but I can only tell you this, Your life has a purpose. Perhaps you were sent to those circumstance because you were strong enough to break the cycle... your children are growing up in a safe environment and so will their children. All because of you..
whatever you decide to believe in, I will always admire your strength

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