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Brutal Honesty
June 13, 2005
10:25 am
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SoulSpirit
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While brutal honesty is often hard to swallow, I am one of those who am thankful when someone cares enough about me to be brutally honest. I detest when people see things in me, and would rather dance around it, talk about it behind my back, and then be righteous about my stumble. I look at it this way... if someone is brutally honest with me, they want to see me succeed. Sometimes I am so wrapped up in my own situation, that I can't see the forest for the trees. I know of numerous situations in my life where someone was honest with me, and told me what they saw... that didn't make them right and me wrong... it just gave me another view point from which to evaulate my station in life.

Please... be brutally honest with me... it only helps me grow!

June 13, 2005
11:46 am
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Deena
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soul...I feel the same way. I feel tell it like it is. I feel a little "attacked" (maybe too hard of a word) on the support threads for being a bad poster..being too honest I guess. Everyone has opinions and advice. Some just can't accept anything that's not "good" I guess. Me like you want people to be HONEST.

June 13, 2005
11:56 am
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exoticflower
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I guess the 'brutal' is the problem for me. At a point, someone just isn't going to hear you, so say your piece, GENTLY so they may want to save it for later, but honestly or there is no point in saying it to begine with, and let them take what they will from it--you can't make someone accept anything but what they are willing to, but you can choose how to present your own thoughts. I sometimes think too 'brutal' an honesty is not about honesty but about control--intimidation, not leaving room for questions or doubt, if that makes sence. We are all codependents here so we know best...for EVERYONE, right? LOL at my own joke, how conceited is that? Go on, tell me honestly.

I do think there are times when a person is clearly receptive to 'brutal' honesty. I have asked for it outright before, but sometimes it is just too much, more of a bulldozing I think. I guess it all comes down to respect for me.

June 13, 2005
1:03 pm
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SoulSpirit
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To me, the word "brutal" doesn't mean being disrespectful, or malicious....it means saying to someone what they might not WANT to hear, but that might be good medicine for them. Key word "might".

I would rather be totally (better word)honest about my perception.

June 13, 2005
1:06 pm
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lollipop3
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I agree with Exoctic, and I have seen alot of it in the support threads. As I've said before, there is a difference between honesty and being judgemental and people know the difference. When they feel judged, they get defensive (as I myself have dont).

To me, there is no room for judgement here. Everyone is hurting for one reason or another and no one has the right to be cruel.

I've seen many people in my day be downright mean and then cover it by....I'm just being honest. Bull#@$, you're just being mean.

Of course, as with everything else I've said.....this is just my opinion.

Deena-----I'm not trying to start an arguement here and I don't mean to be a total jerk but.....when you say that you are feeling attacked....is it possible that people are just being "honest".

Something to think about.

Lolli

June 13, 2005
1:08 pm
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lollipop3
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that was supposed to say ( as I myself have done) meaning I have gotten defensive.

June 13, 2005
1:12 pm
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exoticflower
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kc30 is one to think of here...she is always honest and sincere and pretty no-bull about things. But, she always keeps it respectful--she doesn't bellittle, give blanket statements or insult. She speaks form her own experiance and that is that. I try to look for posters like that and learn from it myself, I am sort of a secret softie (in the real world people think I am fairly abraisive outside of my close friends and family) and want my communicating to be effective and helpful. On another thread there was discussion once about the difference between what someone needs to hear and what YOU need them to hear, that one was big for me.

June 13, 2005
1:13 pm
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kc30
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Truth is never the problem...the problem lies in the presentation of truth.

As in all things "Presentation is everything!"

kc

June 13, 2005
1:16 pm
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kc30
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HEY....aw shucks ef...I'm blushing (truly, you almost made me cry!)

Thanks so much for your kind words. They were unbelievably well-timed- I'm in a slump.

But this isn't about me! So I'll go away 🙂

(but thanks again!)
kc

June 13, 2005
1:23 pm
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exoticflower
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I think it is supposed to be about communication in general...and for a minute there it was really REALLY about you!

Almost cried...I remember pregnancy, I couldn't be around my nice friends or I cried, I couldn;t be around mean checkou tladies or I cried...and the messed up thing? I sometimes miss it! I guess for all of us drama addict...?

OK, the post was this, by JW, another who is pretty good about saying what she means but remaining respectful.

"I think that there is a balance we have to find between how much we need to SAY what is on our minds and how much the other person needs to HEAR what is on our minds. sometimes it seems to me that people get such a rush from unloading on you that their need to feel good supercedes their concern for you. "

June 13, 2005
1:24 pm
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lollipop3
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Again, I agree with you exotic.

There have been many people here that have told me the "truth" gently and without judgement.....

Exotic, Tracy, kc, and Angel4U, to name a few.

I find for myself, it is you gals that I gravitate toward and whose insight I look forward to.....others I look at and say to myself...".oh how wonderful it must be to be perfect and have all the answers" and then I move on to see what you guys have to say. It is not helpful at all, hell it even frustrates me when it's not even directed at me!

Also, my best friend has ALWAYS been honest with me. Sometimes what she says hurts but I always know it comes from a place of love and wouldn't have it any other way.

I agree that it's all in the presentation.

(((((hugs to all of you )))))

Lolli

June 13, 2005
1:29 pm
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exoticflower
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I pushed up another thread on honesty, it really is great, touches on a lot of this stuff.

Thanks Lolli, I've been having a down week if you've peeked in on no contact...I hope you haven't been looking to me lately LOL!

June 13, 2005
1:38 pm
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lollipop3
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Exotic,

I have seen and yet, I still look to you. You have given me great advice and so much support and encouragement. I know it's easier to give advice than take it. I say that to myself sometimes....when I see what I have written to others and I think...ok, good advice...now take it!

Anyway, I believe everything comes in it's own time and it will for you too.

And hey, don't let me fool ya, just because things are going well for me this week, doesn't mean I won't be here tomorrow screaming...HHHEEEELLPPPP!!!!

(((((hugs to you)))))

Lolli

June 14, 2005
11:38 am
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Deena
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lolli....point taken.

June 14, 2005
1:39 pm
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sewunique
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Webster writes;

Brutal............

1) like a brute; very savage, cruel, etc.
2) very harsh. brutally, adv.

Honest............

1) truthful; trustworthy.
2) a sincere or genuine (honest effort) gained by fair means (honest) living.
3) frank and open (an honest face)

Seems to me that 'brutal honesty' used here is an oxymoron!

June 14, 2005
1:44 pm
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sewunique
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With my take on 'brutal honesty' as above..............kc what you wrote is Right On as you stated so well, with brevity.......if I may just paste what you said before?

"...Truth is never the problem...the problem lies in the presentation of truth.

As in all things "Presentation is everything!"

kc

Great words, I think this is what wew have been trying to day here! Thanks,

Sew

June 14, 2005
1:45 pm
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sewunique
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s/b....this is what we have been trying to SAY here

June 14, 2005
1:57 pm
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exoticflower
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Sew, that's really something, the oxymoron there...I never thought about it! Thank you for that!

June 15, 2005
8:32 am
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peacesoul
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Lolli..I am not trying to start a fight, but you calling me uneducated was totally insulting, judgmental and cruel! That was downright mean to me and I did nothing but speak my truth to you at the time.

Maybe we all get a little to "heated" at times, and shit is said that we do not mean???

We are all guilty at times right?

Lolli, I happen to enjoy your posts and hearing about your progress and I am also happy we can post with respect again, but there are times (many times) that being honest is serving justice and not trying to harm the person who is hurting !

I am all for trying to help the hurting souls with offering up the truth b/c I know when I am in a bad spot, I respect and appreciate those that "tell it like it is" (with kindess of course)
I also think the truth makes us heal faster

Just my 3 cents :- )

Love to all !

June 15, 2005
9:04 am
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SoulSpirit
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My Bible teaches me that the truth will set you free.

June 15, 2005
9:41 am
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lollipop3
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Hi Peace,

I understand what you are saying and you are correct that we are all guilty of lashing out at times.

Although I wish this discussion would just DIE already, as it's been a few weeks now and I don't think it's healthy to keep going and going and going with it however....

When I said what I said to you, I was not trying to be helpful. I was angry. I was not trying to make you see a "truth". I was trying to insult you. I felt insulted, I got angry, I insulted back. I can see that and am trying to learn not to take what is said here personally so nothing like that happens again.

Having said that, I think what people are talking about here is a bit different. I personally didn't see anything wrong with the things you posted to luv, however I did think that Deena went a bit overboard with the judgement. And judging by your posts to her I think you saw it as well, as it seemed like you were trying to get her to see from a different perspective. I don't mean to be disrepectful to Deena because I actually like to read her posts, but it seems like she sees you "tell it like it is" and then takes it too an extreme, hoping you'll back her. Which then comes off as an attack on others.

I'm glad you enjoy my posts and I too, enjoy yours. I also, do not want to cause futher arguement and I hope that we can continue to post with respect to each other.

Lolli

June 15, 2005
10:02 am
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peacesoul
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It just died :- )

It was a slow death, but none the less it died with dignity :- )

I never post so others will take sides, I do believe however Deena and I have a common opinion on the subject of "truth" !
Of course I back up whatever anyone says that I happen to agree with.
She backed me up in the other post cause she agreed with me.

We all takes sides of that in which we feel passionate about.

Thanks Lolli :- )

June 15, 2005
11:09 am
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Deena
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Lolli....I don't need anyone to back me up. I can definatley hold my own. I am my own person. Like Peace said..we share the same opinions at times. I am sorry that is your opinion of me. Maybe if you had some good posts I could actually agree with you too. I don't take back anything I said. I will apologize for being harsh. Enough said.

June 15, 2005
11:15 am
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lollipop3
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okey dokey pokey

June 15, 2005
1:34 pm
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Deena
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whatever??????

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