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bookstudy - Codependent No More - EVERYONE WELCOME
January 12, 2007
1:04 pm
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thumkin
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I cannot join in in the evenings cuz I dont have internet at home but I think what you all are doing is a wonderful idea. May I join in during your off hours or would it still work?

January 12, 2007
1:50 pm
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ggfred4
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thumkin, join in any time...I may not be able to either at times...We are just trying to give this a try and we can all learn from each other. Last night I realized things by reading what army and mama wrote...

Share!!!

January 12, 2007
2:36 pm
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thumkin
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For me my co-dependent behavior may have started in my early teens. Not because of alcoholism, at least not then it wasnt. My dad was never emotionally available, I guess. It was like he never needed us. If we got to see him great if we didnt oh well. My mom remarried when I was 16 and I felt like I had lost the only one who had ever loved me, or at least that is what I told her. I have a horrible memory when it comes to my childhood, I have forgotten soooo much of it.

Anyhow I started dating very unhealthy people. I just saw them as misunderstood. I thought I was special so the changes they needed to make in thier lives they would make for me. Stupid big mistake, but Im afraid Im still doing the same things.

I have been married to two alcoholics and am currently in a relationship with an alcoholic. I love him (I think) and I am not trying to change him. It seems to me we have a good open honest relationship but something keeps telling me that I am stupid if it were all that good he wouldnt be an active alcoholic.

I go out of my way to please people, make them feel better, keep the peace, etc. etc.

I recently began questioning if I am capable of loving someone else. Truly loving them. What if I am like my dad in that respect. I ended both of my marraiges. I did not cry, and I do not ever miss my ex-husbands. I read so often on these boards about people having problems ending unhealthy relationships and missing the exes no matter how evil they were to them. I dont have that problem, my problem is that I get in those relationships in the first place. It does hurt me when I am in them. My ex-h did one hellofa job on my self-esteem, but when I finally got the courage to tell him I was leaving, I left and have not looked back. Sometimes I have to run forward cuz HE wont let go but after 2 1/2 years he is starting to leave me alone a little more, at least while he has someother girlfriend or interest.

The worst part of all of this is that I have read co-dependent no more and women who love too much. I just cant seem to force myself to take the steps to make my life better.

January 12, 2007
2:51 pm
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armyleo
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Free - thanks for sharing...

Thumkin - join in

I've had something on my mind...

don't know if it belongs here, but the book is always bringing up alcoholics. My dad quit drinking last year. I never could tell myself he was alchohlic....Somedays I liked him better drunk... he was nicer, fun to be with, he was a good dancer...but, alchohol would also make him do things, he was very mean sober, but way drunk, he was always kissing women, I would find him, making out, I would find him asleep naked in the living room, where women would leave him, before my mom came home.

I don't know why I'm bringing it up, but I love/hate him...Maybe hate is too strong, maybe I'm jealous, I went through alot with him,,,,Alot of things happened at the restaurant that he could have stoppped, drunk men slobbering on me, drunk men pinning me against the wall, drunk men dancing/touching me, yet he was drunk himself. I lived and saw so much with mom and dad...but I always wanted them to love me. They left me when I was little and I didn't see them for ~4 years...Maybe I saw them once or twice a year but didn't really know who they were.

My brother comes along, 7 years later, they are at a different stage in life... To this day my dad pays him a salary, pays health insurance for his family...etc...While I left the house ~ 17-18 years, and have always worked. Supported myself. I don't know why but I guess bitterness is creeping in...

And I don't understand why, now that my dad has stopped drinking, am I realizing that I grew up with an alchoholic...What the hell does it matter now, doesn't matter, yet why is it bugging me.

I think I didn't want to start this because alot of negative in me comes out, and I don't like it. I want it to not be there.

January 12, 2007
2:56 pm
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thumkin
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Even though he is no longer drinking it matters because you were affected by his drinking when you were a child. You have all of those unresolved issues that will have to be resolved when you are ready before you will be able to find the peace we are all looking for. Alcoholism is a family disease. I dont understand how, but no one can be in that family without it affecting them. I dont know if you would even be capable to go to them or if anyone has suggested it to you but Al-Anon would be very beneficial to you.

January 12, 2007
3:46 pm
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But I no longer live with my dad, this was years ago when I was a kid and besides he no longer drinks. I thought Al-anaon, was when you lived with an alcoholic.

January 12, 2007
8:02 pm
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cpt1212
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hi i want to join---i have the book and i read it from cover to cover a few months ago and then didn't really have anyone to bounce ideas off of----i think this a great idea.

January 12, 2007
9:23 pm
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mamacinnamon
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CPT & Thumkin.. welcome.

Armyangel. I think I know how you feel on this one. Growing up my mom and I did not get along at all. She loved my sister; pampered her. She was epileptic; the sick child. Dad could discipline all of us but not her. She had to be w/ mom and mom did everything and gave everything to her she wanted. Yes, I was hurt and jealous. I can admit that.

Then later in life when I got divorced my mom's way of helping was to bring groceries on Fridy night. She didn't watch my kids. She told me when I was pregnant that she'd babysit IF and WHEN she chose to and I was not to ask her. Very seldom did my mom watch the kids.

Then my sister decides to have babies on her own. Artificial insemenation. She decided to play God. She had a set of beautiful twin boys ten weeks early. She always had everything she wanted and how she wanted it. Now the ball is not in her court and she is having to deal w/ reality. I was sent to Chicago on crutches to get her and the boys home. She wasn't handling things well. Dad set her up in a house that she pays for. Mom had her kids all the time except when i had them. Sis was to fragile to watch her kids. I took the night shift for months. Amost ruined my marriage over it.

Anyway, 7 years later the twins are great. I still have them most the time. My sis is still not dealing w/ life. She has been in counseling for 7 years now.

Deal is mom dotes and loves the twins and hardly ever has anything to do w/ my kids and we've lived here in town w/ her always. Not in the same house but blocks away. Not until a few years ago when I became ill did my mom want much to do w/ us. My sis overspends and mom gives her the money. I need a loan it's ok but I am to pay it back (and I'd have it no other way).

Here is what hurts tho. Yes, I hurt coz of the favoritism. That hurt. BUT what hurts is the difference in the way she treats her grandkids. And to me when the kids notice it then it's sad.

What can I do? Explain the best I can. Let them know they are loved even tho favortism is in play.

Yes, Army, your feelings are warranted and they are normal. Only thing you can do is know you have your ducks in a row and it's not because of them. Hope that helps you.

January 12, 2007
9:28 pm
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ggfred4
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(((mamac)))

January 12, 2007
9:56 pm
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mamacinnamon
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GG: Thanks for the hug, but I've resolved all this years ago. Just feel bad for my kids is all. Oh, and my sis that came and helped make dinner tonight and was gonna take a plate to mom is now AWOL. hmmm. Doesn't make the marriage here nice when she pulls this crap.

January 12, 2007
10:20 pm
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Hi everyone. this is pretty great and very interesting to read. it is helpful to hear about others with issues so similair to my own.

Is it possible to be born codependent?? I know its not but I remember being a "pleaser" at a very young age.

I was sexually abused by my alcoholic grandfather as a child. Often fondled right in the middle of family gatherings. I remember people looking at me and smiling, as if they couldn't see. I don't think they even saw it anymore. The whole family had been abused by him. Whats one more. I grew up feeling there was no one I could trust and that I needed to accept that. When I told people about my grandfather, there were fights. I learned to keep my mouth shut.

My parents divorced and we moved in with a ma my mom married. I loved him but he used me against my mom and my brother. I tried to trust him and figured out I had been mistaken to do so.

I dated the "wounded puppies" you all talked about. I went so far as to become involved with a murderer when I was 15. My affair with him lasted until I was 18. I dated others in jail. I dated boys who killed themselves.

It was no suprise I guess that I married an alcoholic when I was 19. I am 34 now and in the process of a divorce. I understand not being able to make a decision. I didn't know what I would want if I had the nerve to admitt a need.

My husband was emotionally abusive. He called me every name in the book, did not assist me when I needed medical care, woke me up at night to argue. I spent the first three years of my daughter life sleeping on the floor in front of her bed to protect her from him. He treated a 3 year old like his councilor. He wanted a baby to save him. It was crazy.

I started going to therapy last december and by February I had left him. One day I just decided and tore everything out of our home in one day. I took my baby and left.

Now, 10 months later I am dating again. I don't think this guy is a wounded puppy type. It has been 5 months so far and no red flags, so maybe i am doing better. I no longer trust my own judgement. Obviously I have been duped before and I let it cost me 15 years of my life.

I still worry about the ex. I am afraid of making him mad at me. I still call him to check up on him and make certain he is okay.

Old habits die hard, don't they?

Sorry this is so long. You ladies, just got me thinking again. I am doing well, but its about time to start thinking about this stuff again and moving forward.

I finally have my freedom and its a wonderful and frightening thing.

January 13, 2007
12:31 am
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Lightchaser:

You type just as much as you feel like. Glad to have you here w/ us.

You said freedom is wonderful and frightening. Would you ever want to go back? I know there is no way I'd go back to the first marriage. It was like a dark cloud lifted and we w= could all breathe. A hard road, but a happy one.

January 13, 2007
12:43 pm
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lightchaser
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Hi Mamacinnamon. At first I wanted to go back. It was comfortable and that is all I knew. But now? NO WAY IN HELL!!

Sometimes I just lay in bed at night and think, "no one can hurt me anymore" and it is an amazing feeling. No one calls me all day at work to harrass me. No one tells me what to do or how to spend my money. No one makes a mess of everything I do. No one complains about my cooking or cleaning or child rearing. No one tells me how fat I am, or yells at me when I cut my hair. no one tells me what I can and can't wear. No one makes fun of me in from of my friends. No one keeps me awake all night telling me how worthless I am. No one kicks me in the back till I fall out of bed.

Oh yeah, my life is sooooo much better. I am actually a person way down in there. I never knew!!

There is no going back for me. Only onward and upward.

You said earlier that people have a hard time because they miss their ex's, but you don't miss yours. I am glad to hear that, because I wondered if I was cold and heartless. I wondered if I ever really loved him at all. Because I don't miss him.

This is terrible, but has anyone ever wished their husband ( abuser) would die? I fantisized about his funereal a thousand times. I guess I didn't want to be the bad guy, the one who left him. I thought it would be so much easier if he would die and I would continue to be the all loving person who sacrificed herself for the one she loved. People would think about how GOOD I was.

Well, he didn't die and I am glad. I am glad I was strong enough to leave him, even if it made his family not like me very much for a while. It made people think I was a bitch. How could I leave such a wonderful man?? They had no idea what it was like. no one did.

So, there I went off rambling again, but it is so good to reflect at times.

Its good to remind ourselves why we don't want them back.

Thank you for welcoming me mama.
Light

January 13, 2007
3:38 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Light:

"has anyone ever wished their husband ( abuser) would die? I fantisized about his funereal a thousand times."

Yes ma'am I did also. My evil x had a really bad 3wheeler accident and I wanted so bad for him to die. But, me bein the good Christian girl I was supposed to be I prayed for his life. The docs told me there was no way he would live and yet I prayed and he lived. I kicked myself and hated myself for years because I prayed for him. Caused me many many more years of grief. I still get angry at myself, but I know I did the right thing. You'd have thought he'd be grateful he lived and would have straightened up, but oh well.

I can't say I'm glad he lived, but it was the right thing to happen obviously. I know God has his plans so who am I to step in the way. (dang, makes me look like a real b**** doesn't it.) 🙁

January 13, 2007
3:47 pm
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lightchaser
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Nope, it doesn't make you look like a B****. Not at all.

The only reason I am glad my ex lived was because we are now pretty good friends, and he leaves me alone, and only gives me a minimum of grief.

If your ex is still a dink, then I couldn't blame you at all.

I don't know for sure if you should prey for people who make your life miserable, but you just do what you feel is right at the time. I think God has a plan, too.

I hope you are never in such a situation again, but if you are, spend some of those prayers on yourself.

January 14, 2007
5:07 pm
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ggfred4
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Mamac, I found my book!!! yippee!

January 14, 2007
7:17 pm
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I still wish my ex husband would just die.

the kids could then mourn his death and move on. Instead, they live with his continual head games, rejection, and withholding of love.

I'm convinced that he, too, would be better off.

He's miserable in every way and his existence is just pathetic.

free

January 14, 2007
8:47 pm
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Hi ladies...

I have been reading your posts. I will probably go over them again and again. I have read co-dependent no more...I am a flaming co-dependent. The kind that suffered from such a deep depression it lead me to thoughts and acts of suicide. I need to read it again because I think it is a book that you need to read a couple a times until you get it. Plus, I wasn't at a place in my relationship at the time when I was ready to let go and really accept the reality of the situation. I have also read women who love to much which again I need to re-read because I was still caught up in the drama when I read it.

As far as the question, "has anyone wished their husband (abuser) would die?" Well, yes I have plenty of times. He used to tell me (he is a drug addict, was on heroin) that he was doing all the drugs to try to kill himself. I told him why don't you just take a bullet in your brain and do all of us a favor and get it over with. I would have done it myself but had been in enough of a prison for the last 7 years that I did not want to go to prison for life.

I am having a pretty hard time but just because I have not figured out how to rid myself of the fairy tale thinking I am getting there. My X was such a charmer and really did a number on me. I was so in love with him. Never loved anyone like that in my life. Never. He was that puppy that I was trying to save. Horrible childhood, mom abandoned him for stepdad, X wife was a complete nut...etc. But it was a lie, a sham because he was never the person he portrayed himself to be like in the beginning. I believed his X was a nut and she really is but with him I was totally nuts too. Unlike his first X my kids won't be smoking pot at 9 and their boyfriends won't be moving in at 15. I won't be working nights and leaving them home alone to throw parties. I won't be asking them to find drugs for me. Sick, sick, sick.

I take each day one at a time. I pray for God to deliver me and take all this pain away. I know that one day I will look back on this with sadness but then I will be a stronger person. I just hope I can use my experience to better the life of others.

January 14, 2007
9:51 pm
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dustpuff:

Nice to meet you.

Feel free to join in. I think we are all learning quite a lot about ourselves and each other. We are finding we are not alone and that others suffer as we do; sadly.

Pleae feel free to post and join us in this study. Glad to have you. 🙂

January 14, 2007
10:26 pm
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lightchaser
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nice to meet you dustpuff. Hello gg and free.

January 15, 2007
8:20 pm
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bevdee
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Hi everyone

I want to thank you for this thread. I read the book several years ago. Being able to read these posts has helped me. It has caused me to go further and become more introspective.

Thank you again.

Bevdee

January 15, 2007
10:09 pm
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Hi everybody.

so what does it mean, that we wish/wished our husbands would die?

free

January 15, 2007
10:42 pm
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Free

I used to wish the same thing. I used to sit and watch him sleep and will him to die. Ha!! My mojo wasn't strong enough.

I now believe wishing he would die was my hope that the problem would go away. It wasn't true, but it sure would have made it easier.

January 15, 2007
11:26 pm
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It took a while for me to realize that I was codependent because I am almost 30, single, no children and never had a serious relationship. there is not one person that i am dependent on or trying to change. i am relationship phobic. never let anyone too close. but i see now that i constantly try to "fix" and please my dysfunctional family. I set aside what is good for me, to take care of them, even if they dont want it. and i recently realized that i really don't know how to take care of myself and i use them to a big degree to distract myself from myself. I am flexible, compromising to a fault and i don't get angry or raise my voice. . .ever.

as for where this started i guess it started in my crazy family of origin. no one in my family remains calm or compromises so in order for everyone to survive someone had to and my father is bi-polar, but was unmedicated until all the children were grown and it wasn't till i was in college that i knew there was a name for his "personality". I just thought he hated me. One of my first memories is of sitting in my grandmother's lap while her and my grandfather and my mom and dad had a huge fight over the 1980 presidential election and i remember feeling extreme guilt for sitting in my grandmother's lap when she was disagreeing with my mom. I was 3. and well on way to codependency ha!

January 16, 2007
3:20 pm
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thumkin
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Army - Al-Anon is for a lot of different people. Some of the peoples parents who were alcoholics have even long since passed away. Even though your father has quit drinking and you no longer live with them they say we have unresolved issues stemming from the time we spent with the alcoholic loved ones in our lives. I believe them, even though my dad did not drink I believe my co-dependency stems from him and even though we have no problems now I have unresolved issues hence my co-dependence. I hope this is making some sort of sense. I dont know if you would even be able to go to a meeting but I think that if you could you would find that you wanted to go back for more.

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