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Book: "Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness" by Richard H Thaler
August 6, 2009
5:19 pm
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truthBtold
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Anyone familar with this one?

Geesh, Louise, what a sophisticated farce!!!!

Total and complete attempt of massive and grand-scale societal manipulation being sold under the presumed innocent guise of someone else (which is highly subjective ANYWAY) 'knowing what is good for us.'

Oy Vey!

An offshoot of something called 'Behavioral Economics."

I am absolutely astounded at this!!!!

What's even worse is the fact that if you check out this book on amazon, you will find a 4 to 1 ratio of those that are in favor of this academically elitist drivel.

40 - 5 star ratings as compared to 10 - 1 star ratings.

I am in agreement with just about all of the one-star ratings - but it is scary for me to think how or why in the world so many 5 star ratings??????

When I first heard about this book - I saw right through it. Gave me a physical sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

It is like someone is setting a 'default' mentality across the board and it is up to the rest of us to 'opt out.'

Case in point, (as I understand it) in France, all of a sudden - someone decided that everyone should be organ donors automatically. Across the board. If you don't want to be an organ donor - then you have to do something that makes you able to 'opt out.' of this.

Does anyone else find this absolutely ridiculous?????????

....and that's only one example.

What's scary still is that, as I understand it, the Obama administration is deeply involved and supportive of this.

I voted for him. But now, I am having my reservations because this is just a little TOO SLICK for my tastes and I feel undermines my basic constitutional rights!!!!!!!

(Anyways, saw that this side was waning a tad, so thought I would throw this out there for some intelligent discussion...........)

tBt

August 6, 2009
5:23 pm
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andii
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I think this side is the chat room. There are many discussions on the other side.

August 6, 2009
5:40 pm
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One by one they are going to take away our God given rights and give them back to us as priviledges.

Bitsy

August 6, 2009
5:53 pm
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andii
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Regarding the organ donors, as it is right now everybody is automatically not a donor and we must do stuff to "opt in."

So why not make it the other way around and consequently save and extend the lives of so many versus just sending people to rot in the ground? If one has a personal need to use land in order to rot in the ground versus extending no longer needed organs/tissue to others who will die without it, then paperwork can be filled out stating such.

We certainly have many God given rights to do many things, but selfishness doesn't seem Godly to me.

But that's just one perspective.

August 6, 2009
6:14 pm
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Wow, tbt, I hadn't heard that. I think thats beyond incredible.

I think there's a lot of "slick" things going on, worst of it is that we , the little people, don't get to know about it or have a say in it. Heck, the Congress doesn't even know cuz they don't read the bills they sign.

I've never felt more powerless.

Sorry andii_ I wholeheartedly disagree- and if someone wants to take my organs without my permission then they are entitled to get the disease I may be carrying in my body- they can have that too!
surprise, surprise!

sd

August 6, 2009
6:34 pm
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truthBtold
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Bitsy,

You said:

"One by one they are going to take away our God given rights and give them back to us as priviledges."

Man, you really summed that up in a quite the eloquent nutshell.

I never thought about it quite that way - but you are SPOT ON!!!!!!

Another example that just infuriates me to no end is my earthlink account.

Since I 'opt-out' of setting my account up with them so that they can automatically have access to my bank account and withdraw their fees - I am penalized with an additional $2.00 charge per month.

$1.00 for 'non-automated' payment and another $1.00 for 'paper invoice.'

....and that's not all! If I want to view my email via 'webmail' - they have all of a sudden decided to advertise and if I don't want to see that advertisment, then I can pay an additional amount to have it not appear. Imagine that! They are trying to tap into BOTH ends of the spectrum.....money generated from the advertisers and money generated from my paying additional monies not to be bombarded by it!!!!!!!

IS anyone else here old enough to remember a time that paying for 'cable TV' meant that you were paying for uncommercialized television? Hence - the reason that you paid for it to begin with??????

Hell, even PBS is sponsored by Chevron and Walmart and Intel and Nationwide Insurance nowadays!

I USED to support PBS religiously - back when they never had ANY type of coporate sponsors.....but no more. It is amazing to me that shows like Frontline and Bill Moyers are even able to be aired anymore given their huge, conglomerate sponsors.

And while I am on the subject......is anyone here old enough to remember a time where you used to be able to deduct the interest paid on your credit cards as a valid income tax deduction?????

What in the world ever happened to THAT???????

Fact is, the way interest is calculated on some credit cards nowadays USED TO BE CONSIDERED loan shark rates and was ACTUALLY AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, is common practice today.

Nudge, oh yeah - nudge is right!

More like fudge. Fudge being packed up our - you know what!!!!

(Sorry, a bit graphic and perhaps a little over the top. Apologies in advance for anyone whom is offended.........)

I'm just totally and completely infuriated by the whole direction this country is headed and being led by like a damned herd of clueless cattle!!!!!!!! and what's more - other countries actually look to the U.S. as some sort of a lofty fricking-fracking example to try and emulate!!!!!!

Oy fricking Vey!!!!!!

August 6, 2009
6:36 pm
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truthBtold
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sd,

Posts crossed. Interesting that we were both thinking about the same word slick!

August 6, 2009
6:37 pm
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andii
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Well if you happen to die out in the woods, wild animals will get your organs and tissue without your permission.

True?

See, once you die, your body is trash, thrown away, no longer needed or used by you. You leave. You're gone. Where is another discussion altogether, but your body is basically thrown out by you.

And, one person's trash is another person's treasure.

Nevertheless, if you don't want your trash taken or used by other humans, you don't want your body taken or used by people, you can just fill out paperwork stating such.

I don't see the big deal with that. Fill out a piece of paper and nobody will be able to use your beloved body. It will stay yours and only yours I guess until it eventually becomes dirt. Or ashes I suppose if you cremate it.

Simple.

Many people just don't go through the paperwork of organ donorship. They don't think about it or get around to it. Organ and tissue donation doesn't really matter to people until they need something.

So by making it the other way around, by making everybody a donor versus a non-donor, then all those who don't care about what happens to their bodies- they can be used to extend/save/enrich the lives of others.

This isn't about infringing on or taking rights away. Nobody is taking your right to do with your body as you please.

It's about those in desperate need having access to "trash" that is not cared about.

August 6, 2009
6:44 pm
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andii,

You just might be surprised that on my driver's license I renewed a few years back, I am indeed an organ donor.

It was a DECISION that I thought long and hard about and decided to do under MY OWN FREE WILL!!!!!

But that was MY decision and MY decision alone to make.

You see the difference???????

August 6, 2009
6:50 pm
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andii you are way off. It is easy to sign up as an organ donor. Next time you go get your drivers license renewed, just say yes. That's what I did. There are many, many people wandering around the world who have diseases that they know about but don't want the rest of the world to know about. If we harvest everyone's organs we are going to have to test everyone and it is going to have to go on record. I have an ex boss who was an in the closet homosexual. He and I were the only two people not to donate blood at work one day. He came to me later and thanked me for not donating that day and taking some of the pressure off of him. What if he had bent to pressure and donated? I have not donated blood since I was 18 and they had a blood drive at school. I got sick and in my mind I do not want to repeat that feeling. I know it is irrational but it is the way I feel. I encourage anyone else to donate and I have actually made my ex-husband donate when they have had a blood drive at my daughters school. It doesn't bother him. It bothers me. It is my right.

When you regard your body as trash and that someone else can just have it when you are done with it... I don't know. That doesn't seem to value yourself very well. As I stated today over on the other side. My body and my love is a precious gift and it is mine to give.

Bitsy

August 6, 2009
7:18 pm
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andii: That is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Or, I guess I can call it stupid, since our President seems to like that word.

If our bodies are just trash, do "they" really ned to wait til we die? Why shouldn't they take an organ while we're alive?

August 6, 2009
7:19 pm
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Not to get all hung up on the donor example.....but another example in the book seems to be surrounding the fact that most public urinals could be 'neater.'

So, there was this illustration that if you like, painted a fly in the urinal, that that would give the guy 'something to aim at' and would ultimatetly result in less messy urinals.

Is THIS really the major woes of our society???? Guys that are messy in the men's bathrooms?

I swear, in reading this book, you would have thought that by painting a fly in the urinal would solve all of the world's problems....

And that's not all. They go on to illustrate that like, in school lunchrooms, if you place 'healthy type' of foods like veggies and stuff up front and the more non-healthier foods in the back, that the kids will just naturally 'opt' for the heathier choice which is easier to access.

Are you kidding me???????

I can't even believe that this stuff is even being taken seriously!!!!!

What about not even allowing junk food in the cafeteria to begin with and following the guidelines of providing healthy, nutritional meals as USED TO BE????

But see, the thing is, that major corporations like coca-cola and frito-lay and twinkies and such slithered their way into the school cafeterais where USED TO BE - that they were never, ever allowed to BE THERE in the first place.

Shoot, I have even heard (and been apart of the petition ban) to try and abolish ads from these junk-food manufacturer's which actually have ads now on school buses!!!!!

Commercial Ads on school buses!!!!!!!!!

Incredible to me. Absolutely incredible the lengths to which these companies have been allowed to get away with unmined........

Just a little nudge, nudge here - a little nudge, nudge there until it brings me to yet another topic and very recent book entitled: "Life Inc: How the World Became a Corporation and How to Take It Back" by Douglas Rushkoff published 6-2-2009.

(Par for perhaps a different post/thread.......) but nonetheless all, sadly related............:-(

tBt

August 6, 2009
8:14 pm
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andii
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Truth, that decision is not being taken from you. You can still fill a form to opt out. on your own free will.

Because side, when you are alive you are using your body. When you die you are no longer using it. It is put into the ground to rot and eventually becomes dirt, or it is cremated into ashes. Same goes with everything else we send to the landfill.

No, bitsy.I most certainly value myself very highly. I just understand that when I leave my body, it will rot to become dirt or ashes. I understand that there are people who desperately need what I would leave to rot. And I understand that my body is so valuable that it can give life to another. It's a spiritual thing I guess. Eternal life was gifted to me, the most I have to offer other people is my material body when I depart. It is the greatest gift IMO that a person can give: life.

Your rights are not being taken from you. That doesn't seem to be clear. And yes, I did notice when I renewed my license this time I just had to say yes. before I had to fill out paperwork and get a pink donor sticker to put on my license. So when it turns around the other way, just say no when you renew your license.

Simple.

August 6, 2009
8:18 pm
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And side, please don't ever call my perspective stupid again. Yours differs from mine. But that doesn't make either perspective stupid.

Gosh, I haven't been called that since I was but a young lass with an abusive boyfriend!

It's just not nice. I'm trying to fit in here, and I have valuable perspectives as well to offer others, including yourself, to ponder.

As I respectfully ponder yours.

August 6, 2009
8:50 pm
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andii: Guess you didn't understand my tongue in cheek comment- since our Prez can call things stupid, well....just goes to prove my point....about the Prez and his comment.

I still don't agree with your perspective and don't appreciate what you followed with. Don't worry, I'm outta this thread, .

August 6, 2009
8:56 pm
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I must not have understood the tongue in cheek comment. I don't understand the point about the Prez and his comment either But I'd like to.

I've no problem with not agreeing with my perspective and I'm sorry you don't appreciate what I followed with. I simply asked you not to call my perspectives stupid.

"don't worry???" I'm not worried about a thing. What would I be worried about? Strange.

August 6, 2009
9:38 pm
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andii,

I think that you are completely missing the point here about this whole conversation to begine with.

When starting this thread, it was NOT my intention to wage any kind of war and/or to isolate valuable contributors such as SD.

I think that I kind of, sort of 'get' your perspective and all, but please know that your particular slant is not the end all to this story.

The thing and reference about the 'stupidity' is purely an American issue right now in the news having to do with a comment that our President said in relation to a well-respected black professor from an Ivy-league school having been actually arrested for trying to break into his own home because he simply mis-placed his keys and some neighbor saw him and assumed the worse, no doubt and probably because of the color of his skin and called the local police and this well-respected black professional was actually arrested and had to have mug shots taken of himself and this whole incident was called 'stupid' by the officers that arrested him by our President, is all.

So, now you know the reference.....

Nothing at all to do with you........

August 7, 2009
7:35 am
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I have thought about this and because I am a contrarian, if you make it where everyone automatically donates organs, I will opt out. I like to be able to make my own decisions without Big Brother making them for me.

Bitsy

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