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Bitsy's Pro/Con List
January 10, 2010
2:26 pm
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It No Longer Matters
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And just so you know I am reading and rereading what each of you has said.

Bitsy

January 10, 2010
2:29 pm
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darkeyes
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Ma strong i have to say this my god speaks through us all..

January 10, 2010
2:47 pm
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Hepburn
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Bitsy,

No one is saying either of you are stupid.

IMO this is a much more emotionally charged issue with you then with him. I say that because of your comment about wanting to reconcile and him turning you down. AND you also mentioning him just TOSSING this subject out there and then might not mention it again??!! That right there is a Red Flag. But hey, that's just me.

Be HONEST with yourself. THAT, in my opinion is listening to God.

Hep

January 10, 2010
3:28 pm
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StronginHim77
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Hep -

That's a Scripture. Since Bitsy shares my faith, I knew she would be familiar with it. Obviously, it would have no relevance to anyone who was not familiar with it.

- Ma

January 10, 2010
3:37 pm
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sd -

It would not be "living in sin" for Bitsy to reconcile with her husband.

Maybe some legalistic churches would label it that way, but not my ministry.

- Ma

January 10, 2010
4:27 pm
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Bitsy,

Your ex did not suggest "reconciling", did he? Didn't he suggest simply living together as roommates because it would be beneficial financially?

There's a HUGE difference between "reconciling" and coming together as a couple and as a family and living together as roommates for financial benefits.

Most definitely, you should discuss whether you would date other people or not.

As Hep said, it seems much more of an emotional issue for you than it is for him. And as Atalose said, he just went on a date, so why do you say "neither of us is much interested in dating"?

As for what God wants, well, perhaps you and your ex could discuss this arrangement with your pastor or minister.

Mary

January 10, 2010
4:36 pm
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Hepburn
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Ma, I don't think it's "obvious" at all. If it were that obvious, 3 of us (and maybe more) wouldn't have spoke up about it. I'm curious as to which scripture that is. What, is it written in some sort of code? Sounds self explanatory to me.

Also, last I checked, when 2 people get divorced they are no longer considered "husband" or "wife". So what you are saying is because they were once legally married they are still considered husband and wife? And if 2 people are divorced but want to live together and not get married, that's ok?

Sorry Bitsy, I don't mean to pretend that you aren't here. HA But if you'd like to chime in about this, feel free, since it's your thread.

Hep

January 10, 2010
4:49 pm
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sdesigns
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Ma, according to your ministry, does reconcile mean get married again? Or could Bitsy and her ex husband live together and not be married and your ministry would be OK with that?

January 10, 2010
5:05 pm
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Bitsy,

Often I have to keep reminding myself of exactly what brought me to ACC……CODEPENDENCY it’s what brought all of us here I believe.

My responses to you and anyone else are through the eyes of recovering from codependency.

I sense you are struggling moving forward with your life, wanting to date and move on yet overwhelmed with fear. So a familiar person, one you trust and get along with - fills that void -leaving you codependent on him for needs inside of you - needs a brother type person could not possible fill.

I sense some codependent thinking and emotions going on with “reconciliation” . You either do want to reconcile your marriage to him but are fearful of another “no” response from him or you absolutely do not in which case him going out on a date the other night would not have stirred something up in you. And you wouldn’t be mentioning how everyone asks why the both of you divorced in the first place, I think you are asking yourself that question but fear and rejection keep you from truly opening up regarding your true feelings for this man.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

January 10, 2010
5:06 pm
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Bitsy,

Your ex is worried about losing his job, has no gf right now, and tosses out a remark about the two of you being roommates - "raising Cat together and sharing expenses". Is this right?

Sorry, but I don't think that's so admirable. You've been struggling financially for quite a while. Is he a solution? It would really suck to be stuck as his roommate, have him lose his job, AND watch him date other women.

As I wrote before, you can still give Cat family time by doing things together - all three of you. You don't have to live under the same roof for that.

Seems you'd be better off sharing a place with a female roommate, maybe even one who had a kid. And someone with a steady job. Then you could share expenses, have a bigger place, and still grow as an individual and learn how to date. You can't be the only woman in your position in your city.

Mary

January 10, 2010
5:31 pm
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Lillabit
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In Mark 10:11 it says.if a man divorces his wife for anything besides adultery and remarries then he is committing adultery.

Romans 7:1-3. says that a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. she'll be an adulteress if she lives with or marries another man while her husband is alive. if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. so if you were not divorced cos of adultery, according to scripture you cant remarry without it being adultery.
There are some older widow ladies in my church that beleive their marriage was the only true one and wont remarry. wouldnt even date siad there wasnt' any point to it. they believe God took there husbamds and its his plan for them to live there life celabate.

January 10, 2010
5:34 pm
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I know this thread is not about me. Why oh why isn't it all about ME!! But I just wanted to share a couple of more things, related to how easily I fill in all the missing pieces with fantasy.

I got back together with my exh after we divorced because he said to me "I looked around at what else was out there and realized I'd had a pretty good deal." I wasn't dating anyone at the time, and I made that enough!! After all we'd been through - an affair, his refusal to go to counseling, etc. etc. I filled in all the blanks with FANTASY! I wanted a "happy family", and I was tired of struggling financially.

Of course, we had problems, and he continued to refuse to go to counseling and/or examine his behavior or beliefs. When his threats to leave didn't silence me, as they had before, he moved to a separate room in the house and began withholding "affection". I went to counseling, again, working on myself, but naturally, I was unable to fix the marriage by myself.

After 6 years, I told him, "Go to counseling, individually or with me, or move out." He still drug his feet. I packed his stuff and helped him move out.

He made no effort to officially divorce, even when we weren't living together. I filed the papers, went to court, paid the fees. I kidded myself that his hesitation was because he perhaps still cared, until I read on his Facebook page that he was hoping to be divorced soon. In other words, he was hoping that I'D HURRY UP AND GET US DIVORCED SO HE COULD DATE FREELY.

I grew up fantasizing and taking every little crumb and making a meal out of it so I'd feel loved and cared for and safe in the middle of all the abuse. It's still tough to stay rooted in reality, but I feel a lot better about myself for doing so. I wonder, too, Bitsy, if I'll find someone, and I'm hesitant to date. But life in the light is what we deserve. We don't have to settle for crumbs.

I'm gonna go workout now.

Love to all of us! We all deserve the very best!!

Mary

January 10, 2010
5:55 pm
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I think no action is the plan of action right now. I think his date the other night was a friend type thing. They went to high school together. She lives in another state a 1000 or so miles from here. It is two months before I put his house on the market. Then it would have to sell. It could be another year before anything could come of this if anything. I think we will just stay with the status quo right now. Also I haven't spoken any more with him about this and we would defiantely need to talk. Putting my head in the sand and pretending it is all sunshine and roses doesn't work for me any more.

Bitsy

January 10, 2010
5:56 pm
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And Mary, I will share my thread with you because you have obviously walked a mile in my shoes.

Thanks everyone for the input.

On a certain level I do find it flattering after R telling me what a psychotic bitch I was that my ex-husband can still like me and get along with me.

Bitsy

January 10, 2010
5:56 pm
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And Mary, I will share my thread with you because you have obviously walked a mile in my shoes.

Thanks everyone for the input.

On a certain level I do find it flattering after R telling me what a psychotic bitch I was that my ex-husband can still like me and get along with me.

Bitsy

January 10, 2010
7:37 pm
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marypoppins
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((((Bitsy)))) Thank you for sharing. Oh, if I had a nickel for every time my exh called me "crazy bitch". I know that I've done things I'm certainly not proud of, but that's why we're here, right? And that's a common retort when you call someone on their own crazy behavior. It's a partnership! But you have learned and grown a lot.

Has your exh had any counseling since you guys divorced? How has he grown? Glad to hear that you will definitely talk things out with him before you make any decisions. And good for you for putting everything out here and withstanding all of our input. Thank you for trusting us to have your best interests at heart.

Keep nurturing yourself, and you will continue to blossom. Don't settle for anything less than you deserve! I think our daughters are paying close attention to how we treat ourselves.

All the best!

Mary

January 10, 2010
10:19 pm
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Dear Hep...

Sometimes, I forget how carefully I should choose my verbage on Liberation Brew side. For the record I would not have posted ANYTHING on Bitsy's thread, if she had not requested same on the Support side. I actually avoid this side as much as possible because it is so hard to post here without offending or annoying SOMEONE.

The quotation was from Psalm 1:1. It is well-known and easily identified by most church-attending Christians; therefore, yours truly screwed up and used the word "obviously." Perhaps, a more acceptable phrase would have been "it would be reasonable, therefore, to appreciate that many NON-Christian-church attending posters might not be familiar with same, although Bitsy (to whom I was posting) is familiar with same. I hope this gets me off the hot seat.

SD - It would be my hope and prayer that Bitsy and her husband would reconcile. In my "lingo," that would mean remarrying and formally recommitting themselves to one another.

Having managed to step on quite a few toes, I will bow out of this thread.

Bitsy, perhaps you could discuss some of these issues and questions with your own pastor(s)? I am not in a position to comment at risk of offending many posters on these threads. And I really don't want to do that.

- Ma Strong

January 10, 2010
10:27 pm
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SD -

My ministry would not consider it "living in sin" for Bitsy and her husband to resume cohabitation because their marriage was never severed in the "Spirit..." only by a legal piece of paper, written by men. That would have little significance or realistic bearing for anyone who does not share my faith, so I can't justify or explain it to you. We don't share the same beliefs and that's okay.

- Ma

January 10, 2010
11:20 pm
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I know you want out of this discussion now Ma, but that brings up more questions. Since Bitsy and her ex could resume cohabitation since their marriage was never severed in spirit, wouldn't that go back to what Lillibit posted- that Bitsy would be an adulterer now because of her relationship w/ R , even if its after the fact of the marriage ending?

January 11, 2010
1:26 am
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Hepburn
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I understand Ma. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I was mildly offended. Mildly being the operative word there.

I realize most of us have different beliefs, which in my eyes is fantastic. But Bitsy did say (and more then once) she didn't want to get married again. And according to her, her x does not want to reconcile in that way. So wouldn't that be severed in "spirit"? Now, if he did (which I think she wants, since she already asked him), that would be a different story. That's why most of us feel the two of them living together AND seeing other people would not work out.

I too am of the belief of a "spiritual" marriage. I don't plan on "legally" getting married again myself. I would have a spiritual ceremony, but not a "legal" one.

Anyway, all of this is getting confusing. And I think that has to do with the fact that Bitsy is confused.

Ok, well you've said your peace Bitsy, so I'll leave it alone as well. But I'm sticking with my original statement; Just be honest with yourself AND the situation you're in.

Peace.

Hep

January 11, 2010
8:31 am
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I am sorry I brought out so many issues for so many. My thoughts are that if we were living under the same roof there would be no dating of other people. Knowing him I know that would be his condition as well. He is above all an honorable man. He would not want to do anything that would be confusing to Cat.

I asked for all of your opinions and am upset that you argued among yourselves instead of focusing on the real issue, which was "is this something to even consider".

I value all of your opinions, you have each been through relationship hell just like me. Most of you know the saga of R but I have rarely spoken of my ex-husband. All he really did was emotionally check out of the marriage and we had nothing in common but our daughter and church. I got married at 22 and I wanted a little excitement. I am the one who sinned and left. Not him.

Ma I asked for your opinion and wanted it. I appreciate you taking the time to post to me.

What I have found out is that the excitement of the "soul-mate" comes at too high of cost. R danced with me, we travelled, we went to wine tastings, we went to plays and to the symphony. We shared books and ideas and I thought were working towards a common goal. We played trivia together. We laughed and sneaked wine into movies. For a few years I had fun. I laughed and laughed and then it all came crashing down.

What I have learned is that I will take boring, staid, and comfortable any day over the excitement of someone like R.

I now know that I can go and do all those things I wanted to do by myself and I know that if ex-husband and I were back together I would have the money to do most of those things.

I still haven't made a decision. His suprise 50th birthday is coming up and I will be around all of his friends again. I want to watch and observe.

Bitsy

January 11, 2010
9:01 am
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Bitsy,
I think you are smart to take your time with this decision. I also second what Hep said, be true to yourself and be as aware as possible of what you are getting into. BTW Hi Hep!

There are so many possibilities for our lives. We tend to think along the lines of "either this or that."When there are so many possibilities.

You say, "I will take boring, staid, and comfortable any day over the excitement of someone like R." and I understand that. But what if there were other choices, besides those two?

January 11, 2010
11:39 am
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Bitsy: Yet another consideration.....is IF your ex dates and finds someone special, your relationship with him AND his family may change, in fact most likely it would. His new girlfriend or wife may not want you around so the close gatherings as you are now. I am wondering if maybe that possibility is influencing your thought process. Things would change for you.

January 11, 2010
2:40 pm
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I don't know. I talked to a councellor friend today. She is in another state. I told her I wanted to lay it out for her as it had been laid out for me. She was really excited about the possibility. If nothing else I am a lot more cautious than I used to be.

Bitsy

January 11, 2010
5:23 pm
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Hi Bitsy.

I think it's worth considering on your's and his merits alone. NOT any that are set by some outside influence.

You have said many times you made a mistake divorcing him. However you were at a place in your life where you had questions. Frustrations regarding your choices.

Everyone is at a different stage of growth or under development.It's a combination of choosing your beleifs and self knowledge. Lots of us here had bad family upbringings so it doesn't equip us to maintain a partnership.

Learn what the source of your fears are, and if they are warranted.

So how far have you come to now, in learning about yourself, and the reasons why you chose him and left him?

He sounds like a good man. That wasn't enough for you then. What brings you to considering this now besides the financial and famillial ( your daughter) aspects?

As far as growth goes, do you feel you can approach him about the areas in your lives that bore or trouble you? Is he willing to learn and find a more fulfilling marriage? Is his communication style open and supporting?

I think Practicality is far better than pride, living in fantasy or in fear.

I was practical with D when i met him, there was no chemistry, but I'm glad we started as friends. From friendship can grow the deepest love even in an erotic sense.

So many people today will stay alone to the point it effects their well being financially and emotionally.

I think having Help along the way is far better than pride or fear induced aloneness. Especially if the help is safe, and one can maintain their identity within that partnership.

Probably the best thing you can do is discuss your concerns, goals and fears with the x.

If sex is a problem nothing stops you or him from learning better. Videos and books are available for married couples to teach them how to please eachother.

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