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Betty Bowers On Traditional Marriage....aint it the truth!
October 12, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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I
really have no desire for sex...I think people have to do what
makes them happy...if your not hurting anyone, do what you what you
will. I find it too personal, I do not like feeling invaded. I have
not had sex in a yr or more, my husband has not sex drive either,
we are just too tired at the end of the day to even have time for
that... maybe someday, but right now, I am working on my issues, I
think I have more than i ever realized. I just do not feel i have
the right to tell someone who to be with and when...that is very
personal i believe. society sure has us in a bind, how sad, that
many can't even live the life they want, or feel that is right to
them, its beyond sad, we all get just one life too...and its sooo
short. I say live it and be happy, I have found to say less is
always better anymore, except here, here I feel as if i can be who
I am and I am accepted by most... who is betty bowers
anyhow?

October 12, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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Msguided, I was trying to think how to answer your question on
what you think the underpins are on why we are so pushed to a
greater force than ourselves...

I think its a
basic human need to want to be "taken care of" to be wanted by
someone who can do what we can't for ourselves... Someone way back
then had to had known how people felt about this need and then put
that use into motion in order to have control over us... I firmly
believe that all religions were created by psychopaths who knew
human behavior and then used that their advantage and knew that we
would pass this down throughout the ages and that it would provide
comfort for us, would provide money and power for them, and that
anyone else who did not go for this, would be the outcast... I
think we have a need to be told what to think, what to feel cause
it easy than thinking for us, someone long ago told me this, it
never sunk in till lately, and I could not agree more! More and
more I look at society and people and I am so AMAZED how important
that being of this faith or that faith is SO important, why? even
to the point that they will hurt others and osterize them cause
they do not believe the way they do... biggest con on
earth.

October 14, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Tez,

You
asked?

What do you both
think underpins this drive within many people towards beliefs
without any evidence whatsoever, in an all powerful 'Father' in
charge of the universe and all in it?

One word -
conditioning. They don't know any other way. I've been there
myself. Once I began researching it, I soon found out how erroneous
& misleading the Bible & religions truly are. Others are
searching for answers, a meaning to life & are sometimes drawn
to religion due to a lack of options. Religion is a crutch.
Regarding proof: Well, the onus is on the one(s) who make the
outrageous claims to prove their case. I could claim many things
then say it's true because people cant disprove it? lol

"What about the
quantum physicist who believes in the existence of the quantum
field that underpins all forms and patterns of energy that govern
what we are and see around us? Is this quantum field a God of a
more impersonal kind? If a dimentionless 'Mind' of some kind
underpins even this quantum field, then does this non-personal
'Mind' even warrant the title of a God?"

Yes, a
non-personal God. If you want to use the name 'God' to describe it.
We & everything around us are certainly connected. A mass
collective consciousness at a subatomic level? We just can't really
sense it in a way that our limited physical bodies can interpret.
Much yet to learn about this stuff but, there's no bearded dude in
the clouds waiting to judge & condemning us.

Infidelity?

Well, it's in our
nature to spread the seed. We're hardwired for it plain &
simple. A lot of women say it's dirty, perverted & wrong but
it's the way it is. They just don't like it is all. It's mainly
about ego. Society has most of us with our heads up our butts when
it comes to how we view sexuality. Again, just more of that
counterproductive religious conditioning in play.

October 14, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Hi
(MG)!

October 14, 2010
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CraigCo

On the 14-Oct-10
you wrote:

"Yes, a
non-personal God. If you want to use the name 'God' to describe it.
We & everything around us are certainly connected. A mass
collective consciousness at a subatomic level? We just can't really
sense it in a way that our limited physical bodies can
interpret."

So in what way are
we separate? Where can we draw a definitive border line between
'self' and 'other than self'?

Then about
infidelity you wrote:

"It's mainly
about ego."

Is the only
definitive border line between 'self' and 'other than self' that
border which defines our ego? If such is the case then such an
imaginary 'border' might be the product of our deluded mind, the
mind conditioned by the seeming separation of our body from that
which appears to be 'outside' of it.

What do you think?
Is 'ego enhancement' nothing more than the fostering of a delusion
of separation; that is, the delusion of subject-object
duality?

October 16, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Tez,

You: "What do you
think? Is 'ego enhancement' nothing more than the fostering of a
delusion of separation; that is, the delusion of subject-object
duality?"

Me:

Yea, I feel that
way. Most people, myself included, are deluded. Some a little, but
most 'a lot'. Ego based thinking sure isn't going to dispell our
misconceived notions of separation. It can only serve to foster
that delusion of duality. IMO

Understanding
this, even at such a elementary level, has helped me to suffer less
emotionally & find compassion at times when I previously
wouldn't have. It's a lot of repitition for me. Reminding myself to
keep my ego in check. That peoples' reactions to certain situations
or others merely based in either fear (thanks amygdala) or love.
Quietening the chatter bouncing around in my melon.
Meditation/Reiki type stuff.

An ongoing project
for sure. Although time well spent, I believe. Sure, it may not
always appear that way.....yet!

Here's to evolving
metaphysically!

October 16, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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I
think that religion has so much symbolism that props up males, and
debases women, it is a subconcious reaction ( amygdalian one,LOL)
for men to discount women.

MOST religious
text is written by men, FOR men. Hardly any of it beenfits women
except as concubines and breeding stock. Our voices are quited,
disregarded and not worth consideration.

It's an automatic
reaction that IS ego based.

Since a woman ego
is torn to shreds in most religions it's a convenient mindplay that
feeds the patriarchal power structure.

Talk about being
hard wired!

EGO
indeed!

October 16, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Tez:
"subject object duality"

Ego is mentioned
by U and CC.

Ego. Meaning self
confidence with regard to other beings ( self respect, mutual
respect, without jealousy or controlling) or the kind that sways
toward narcissism?

I beleive there is
healthy and destructive ego tendencies.

So since this is
about the intimate and committed relationships between men and
women, how do we find the healthiest manner to play this out? With
respect toward eachother AND considring our offspring?

October 17, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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M:
"So since this is about the intimate and committed relationships
between men and women, how do we find the healthiest manner to play
this out? With respect toward eachother AND considring our
offspring?"

I'll bite - how?
Maybe: Ask permission to cheat? Or each partner gets one
extramarital freebee/month? Hard to say - we all have such a
variety of unique preferences. titter

Hmm...good
question tho. I'm single so, I might not be the best one to answer
that, 'however'...if you're healthy(wealthy too wouldn't hurt lol)
& wise enough, fortune may shine on you. You find someone
compatible & you both work hard at sustaining your marriage.
Open honest, work out your differences. Just forever continue doing
all that & you'll have a 50/50 chance at remaining miserable
together til death do you part? hehe

But seriously, in
nutshell form: Find someone decent with comparable values &
'be' decent. Dream relationships are the stuff of Hollywood. It's
generally work mixed with some level of pleasure. We can choose to
either embrace that or not, I guess.

It's a half past
midnight. Time to drape my weary carcass over the mattress. Be
good!

October 17, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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M, "
Since a woman ego is torn to shreds in most religions it's a
convenient mindplay that feeds the patriarchal power
structure."

No arguing that.
Women have proven that they can excel at anything. Yet so many
choose to remain part of that women bashing book club/the Bible. If
I were a dame I'd drop that book like a hot potato. Nothing good in
it for you. Au contraire. May as well subscribe to the Misogynist
weekly while they're at it.

October 17, 2010
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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Its
not just women too...its everyone maybe in lesser degrees,
yes...but you have to be perfect to get to heaven.. Its
impossible...to be on gods good side, you must allow people to kick
you around, spit on you and then turn the cheek and be a doormat,
you have to have nothing...maybe live in a tent and if your a
liar...studies so we all lie....at one point or another.... Doesn't
sound too promising.

October 18, 2010
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MsGuided

On the 16-Oct-10
you wrote:

"Ego. Meaning
self confidence with regard to other beings ( self respect, mutual
respect, without jealousy or controlling) or the kind that sways
toward narcissism?"

The word "ego"
seems to have different meanings and usages in our
language.

Accoording to
dictionary.com there are the following usages: 1. the “I” or
self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and
distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of
its thought. 2. Psychoanalysis . the part of the psychic apparatus
that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates
between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the
social and physical environment.

3. egotism;
conceit; self-importance: Her ego becomes more unbearable each
day.

4. self-esteem
or self-image; feelings: Your criticism wounded his
ego.

5. ( often
initial capital letter ) Philosophy .

a. the enduring
and conscious element that knows experience.

b.
Scholasticism . the complete person comprising both body and
soul.

6. Ethnology .
a person who serves as the central reference point in the study of
organizational and kinship relationships.

You appear to me
to be using the word in the sense given in items 3 and 4.
above.

I think CC and I
were using the word in the sense given in item 1 above or even
somewhat in the Buddhist sense given below.

CraigCo:

In what sense do
you use the word 'ego'?

This 'Buddhist'
definition of the word 'ego', shown below, appears on this site
: "The feeling of a separate "I", which we call
ego-consciousness, is directly related to the strength of
ignorance, greed, and hatred. The deepest meaning of ignorance is
the believing in, identifying with and clinging to the ego, which
as we have seen, is nothing but an illusive mental phenomenon. But
because of this strong clinging to ego-consciousness,
attachment/desire, anger/hatred arise and repeatedly gain
strength.

The ego needs
activity in order to exist. Like and dislike, attachment, aversion,
greed and hatred are the main overt activities of the ego. The more
desire and aversion we have the more alive we feel, the more real
and concrete the ego seems. In reality, the ego depends on desire,
its life-blood is desire. The ego and desire are like the two sides
of a coin — one cannot exist without the other. The ego is
projected desire, and desire is projected ego. It is like pedalling
a bicycle: if we go on pedalling, the bicycle goes on moving; but
if we stop pedalling the bicycle will start slowing down and
eventually collapse. The more we go on generating desire the ego
seems very real. When desiring stops the ego then appears as an
illusion."

From this Buddhist
perspective what can we define as a healthy ego? One which is all
but extinct? Or is a healthy ego one which only half believes in
'its' own existence?

October 19, 2010
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MsGuided
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CC.
Ty for your honest feedback. It does recognize possibilities and
that monogamy may not be the only virtuous place to have
intercourse.

"Find someone
decent with comparable values & 'be' decent. Dream
relationships are the stuff of Hollywood. It's generally work mixed
with some level of pleasure. We can choose to either embrace that
or not, I guess."

What if you're not
decent? To expand on that, find someone who matches your
contributions whatever they may be?haha!

But you seem like
a liberated guy caught in this fabric that provides warmth but it's
kinda itchy and ugly ya know?

As for Tezs
Buddhist leanings to describe ego? Egos not only defined by
thoughts but by action and since we are solid living entities i
doubt it is possible to live well without some ego. Desire to eat,
drink and copulate are NATURAL healthy elements we must act upon.
Copulation can be compaired to eating at McDonalds, a five star
restaurant, or at a farmers table with everything brought forth
from his land? It is how we act upon these desires that effect our
overall health. So this is where right or wrong come into play. If
we don't desire and indulge we die phsyically and emotionally. If
we desire and indulge in the wrong things the outcome is
painful.

Is all attachment
unhealthy?

Ego is about self
preservation and when beings intermingle it is ALL about self
preservation. We need comfort, shelter, food, clean water air, and
EACHOTHER. Every living thing competes and/or shares these things.
We distinguish oursleves because we ARE distinguishable. We aren't
invisible blobs of energy. TY again CC for seeing what i was
eluding to.Balance where relationships and ego are concerned.It's
kindof hard to delve completley without writing
essays....

"The ego needs
activity in order to exist."

The article Tez
uses as an example of ego ( I thought we were talking about male
female relationships and how the ego hinders or helps?) mentions
desire a lot. But desire is a broad thing. I don't see categories
of acceptable and unacceptable desire.

Desire for what
sustains us: food water, air, companionship or desire times 10 or
100....overindulgence.

It seems all
desire is unhealthy when i read that article.

How about i become
totally inactive, physically, mentally and emotionally. Just
"being", in a meditative state, Is unsustainable because it doesn't
sustain any living thing. I think Buddhism misses the mark yet
agian because for all it's talk about quieting the ego, it is SO
SELF centred! Centered on "enlightened" Man and his need to escape
his physical body by having no attachments and desires? It kind of
Creeps me out! This guy certainly wouldn't take care of children
very well. Reminds me of other creationsist religions where DEATH
is our only release?

Buddhism offers
reincarnation.....hmmmmmmmmm.

Most living adult
creatures find a mate and produce children. Buddhism embraces
single body esoteric ruminations, leans toward one gender and
doesn't embrace or touch upon what living beings DO on this PLAIN
as being important. We suffer then are released from
suffering/living when we reach Nirvana?

(No wonder there
are so many starving kids in this world. WEe are released when we
die so why bother making this living plain the best we
can)

In fact it schools
people to deny so many things about the phsyical world Yet lists
all the virtuous things we should attain.

I think the
quickest way to reach "sutamaya nana" is by observing and studying
everything around us and learning how to live in harmony with all
that exists.WE don't need to escape what we are or want.

Right and wrong
comes into play but what framework should that really exist in? I
can relate totally to the basic elements of Buddhism: The three
trainings and practices. The Four Noble Truths, The Five Precepts(
where agian human sexuality is stifled) but when i read the various
essays post Buddha i get a sense of irony.

Buddhism falls
short in that it is yet another man centred philosophy, or spirtual
mindset.

I still think
indiginous spirituality recognizes humans and all living things
around us, creating a balance and a voice for ALL> Even the
spiritual representations are numerous,illustrate BOTH genders and
other living creatures. That in istself stifles the human ego. Even
Hinduism i find more suitable when talking about gender relations
and representations in a spiritaul context Buddhism? It's all about
the MAN maaaaaaaaaaan.He sits, stands, is skinny or fat, is half
naked or robed.

Then he starts
preachin' about ego!??

I present a purely
sociological study on gender roles.

The book is called
"The Dominant Sex:A Study in The Sociology of Sex Differentiation"
by MATHILDE AND MATHIAS VAERTING

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2529.....rentiation

Its an interesting
read from an anthropological standpoint which is
refreshing.

October 19, 2010
12:00 am
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StronginHim77
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Generalizations just don't always hold true. I am a
Biblically-based minister with both international and local
ministry outreaches. In order to serve so many, a substantial
number of gifted and dedicated people support my efforts. Many of
these wonderful people are MEN who clearly follow my leadership,
despite being a WOMAN.

Just wanted to
share that not all Christians today endorse the patriarchal system
of church leadership. There is an ever-growing segment which tries
to serve one another in true humility and mutual
accountability/equality of spirit.

- Ma
Strong

October 23, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Tez,

Yes, I was leaning
more to definition 1 of ego.

Regarding 'half
belief in our existence': Well, we do have to deal with our
physical existence to survive on this plane. If we don't take
actions to fulfill our basic needs we suffer consequences. We do,
however, suffer needlessly for embracing ideologies/desires that
aren't essential, i.e. materialism. It's a painful experience even
if only in our minds & who wants that?

I do feel that
this physical reality does fall into the 'illusion' category as far
as the big picture goes. We're still in a cacoon with our limited
perceptions of what really is or isn't, but there does seem to be
something rather suspect about existence here on this plane.
Quantum mechanics has only substantiated that belief for me.
Although intrinsically tied, it isn't merely about what we think we
experience in these physical bodies.

Will we keep
coming back unitl we get it right? I echoes M's sentiment regarding
reincarnation. "hmmmmm...." Haven't ruled it out though. Keeping an
open mind.

Still
searchin.

October 23, 2010
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CraigCo
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M-bree-o,

Think you're
pretty smart! - don't I?!

You must be off
watchin the big UFC fight tonight? I know you're not a 'Brock' fan
so - Go Velasquez!? hehe

Put em up,
you!!

Hope you're
well!

C

October 23, 2010
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CraigCo
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M-bree-o,

Think you're
pretty smart! - don't I?!

You must be off
watchin the big UFC fight tonight? I know you're not a 'Brock' fan
so - Go Velasquez!? hehe

Put em up,
you!!

Hope you're
well!

C

October 23, 2010
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CraigCo
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oops!
hit return/enter twice

October 24, 2010
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alien
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Greetings you all.

Re. your topic of
convo.

Holographic
Universe~Michael Talbot(I highly recommend this book)

And also the work
of Gregg Braden.

October 25, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo

Thanks for your
response of the 23-Oct-10.

I'm not sure what
recarnates - if any 'thing' does.

We are so
conditioned by our sense organs as the previous poster, Alien's
video point out.

The problem for me
arises when the video after demolishing any concept of a 'ghost in
the machine' or a 'self', then proceeds to assert the existence of
an imaginery soul. He then speaks as if this imagined idea of a
'soul' is an indesputable fact.

Then
reincarnationists assert that this entity called a 'soul'
reincarnates. I doubt the veracity of this belief in either the
existence of a 'soul' or its reincarnations.

Having said that,
I do tend to believe that karmic influences do pass to and are
inherited from successive and previous life forms
respectively.

I would not call
these karmic influences an 'entity' of any kind. So from this
perspective I do not believe in reincarnation.

Yet, consciousness
does exist without a doubt. Whether or not there is an 'owner' of
this awareness or a 'humunculuos' in the brain, is a point up that
lends itself to debate. I assert that there is no 'owner' or
'entity' per se that is observing the observed.

In practical terms
and in relation to this page's theme, IMHO, relations within a
marriage is a dance between two imaginary entities called egos that
vie for needs satisfaction that are provided seemingly by their
partners. Fights result when one or both partners feel that their
just 'needs' are not being met.

I watched two
lorakeets, one male and one female, fighting for such needs
satisfaction right outside my bedroom window. The male was doing
his mating dance and was trying to mount the female. She wanted to
feed on the grain that I had provided. She was getting quite irate
with her mate when he was positioning himself to do the job. He was
interfering with her positioning of herself on the plate in order
to get more access to the food. She bit him and made very agressive
bird sounds. Both thought the other was being unreasonable in their
behaviour. I thought: "How like us humans in our sexual
relationships!".

Along comes a
religious patriarch who has it that some god called Yehweh or
Jehoveh declares that in a marriage a man must have his conjugal
rights met! I wonder if the obviously married female lorakeet knew
or understood this religious dictate?

October 26, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Uh.CC
I despise UFC..any form of boxing, or hand to hand combat
"sport".

Karate, Jujitsu
seem less vulgar. It is important to be prepared and trained in
combat just in case, but how some of it is turned into sport and
brought into the realm of entertainment? not my Thang at
all.

Don't watch sports
unless it's the Olympics or Hockey occasionally, or buy fashion
magazines.

I try to extract
myself from these outside influences that rob us of our creative
and intellectual potential.

Fighting has it's
place when one needs protection or needs to get some food in their
bellies and some idiot keeps trying to prevent that.LOL

AND that is
usually pretty rare.

Tez. I used to
have a Female Green Naped Rainbow Lorikeet for ten years. She was
extremely intelligent, loving and gentle, but she had a warrior
streak! She was very protective of me and jealous. Hated my
partner.Her bite could be horrendous!

What a vocabulary
too! she would even change her tone. When she said my partners name
it was like a deep grunt, like she hated him, ahahaha. I would
never clip her wings, had her cage outside in the nice weahter, and
she would fly around , hang out in the hedges, then come when i
called her. Veyr loyal.

Then a feral cat
got a claw in her and she died of fever. :0(

I think i pray to
the Lorikeet god.aaaahahahah

October 26, 2010
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CraigCo
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Uh
M,...I knew that you hate the UFC. Thus the 'ribbing' you about
it.

October 26, 2010
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MsGuided
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CCrow. U see? I need to guard any intellectual capacity i have.
It's like I shove somethin new in there and somethin drops out, or
it gets squeezed into a defective fibrous ball. It's hard to
unravel these things. ;0) Ain't it obvious!?LOL

MUWAH!
:o)

( just don't start
callin' me M(oron) HA!)

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