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Atheists launch Public Campaigns
December 6, 2008
6:19 pm
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Did you hear about that athiest sign which got stolen and was found later in a ditch? - Missing atheist sign found in Washington state

- "An atheist sign criticizing Christianity that was erected alongside a Nativity scene was taken from the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington, on Friday and later found in a ditch."

As one commentator on a site said, apparently the thief didnt care about the "Do not steal" commandment.

Ah yes .... and then there was a bus sign as well, also from athiests. Atheist Bus Ad in Washington

Signs & Wonders: The Atheist Bus - 10/2008, UK. Is that great or what!

Looks like Australians arent that open minded eh?

Atheist Foundation of Australia Bus Slogan Rejected!

The slogan would have simply said: "“Atheism – Celebrate reason!”"

So they fall behind the US and the UK. The UK leads.

December 7, 2008
7:43 pm
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guest,
When you sit on on the beach and look at the ocean or when you are up in the mountains and see a sunrise what do you think about?

December 7, 2008
11:15 pm
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If I did all that, I'd feel peaceful. I'd wonder who made all this and then I'd wonder who made God? If God being so infinitely complex and wonderful doesnt need a creator, why should this relatively more simpler Earth need a creator?

yea.. plus I'd think of the millions and billions of years of evolution. On friday while I was walking to work, I thought I was lucky to be given an existence like this with a complicated body and my mind (yea ok, not so complicated in my case, fine). I could very well have been a jellyfish/ On the other hand I'm unlucky because one day I'll die and not exist anymore, just like how it was before I was born.

How about you. What would you think while seeing a sunrise?

December 8, 2008
4:16 pm
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I like what you said about the complicated mind and body. We are lucky. I'd rather not be a jellyfish.
when I see a sunset or a sunrise, I think about how blessed I am to be here on this beautiful earth.

What makes you feel peaceful?

December 9, 2008
12:06 am
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sleep! mmm yes. Well, what do you mean. Thats just one thing. :d

So do you believe in God? If so, why does God not have to have a creator and the Earth does?

December 9, 2008
2:17 am
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Thanks for answering these quesstions in the spirit in which they are asked, pure curiousity and nosiness. i am not trying to change you or anything.I'd just really like to know what you feel.
I do believe in God and that He did have a creator. If were to go on we would get into my theory of Time and Man that is based on my own thoughts and has actually no science to back it up....not even any recognized church doctrine. which means I'd really get mixed up if I tried to explain it.
Did I mention that I am a Mormon?

December 9, 2008
9:30 am
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I will just add my 2 cents worth here. Your rights as an atheist end when they infringe on my rights as a Christian BUT my rights as a Christian end when they infringe on your rights as an atheist. That being said... Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Either let it be celebrated as such with nativity scenes and such or don't participate. Don't take offense that it is there and I won't take offense if it is not. We are all toooooooo overly politically correct and we ALL need to get over ourselves. Me included. OBTW anyone with the money to advertise can certainly do so EXCEPT for viagra, cialis, and Extends...I really don't want to explain all that to my daughter;)

Bitsy

December 9, 2008
11:52 am
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Tiger, thats nice, one of my ex-gf was an ex-mormon. She was too afraid to tell her mom though but I understand. Her mom was really into it. So whats your theory on everything and how the universe came to be, and who created God? My ideas once again is that evolution created everything. There's tonnes of scientific evidence to confirm the process of evolution and new evidence keeps coming almost every day.

Bitsy, no one is infringing on anyone's rights. Its free speech. Athiests should be free to comment on Christmas or Jesus, no? So I take you think that these signs are all offensive. Well, the belief of me burning in Hellfire if I refuse to be saved or believe in God - is offensive to me too. Some say thats not the case but I say yes, the verses in the Bible prove that non-believers will burn in Hell.

December 9, 2008
12:19 pm
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GG you misunderstood me or I did not express what I was trying to say well enough. I meant that as a Christian I don't need to be offended by atheist signs on buses or by your beliefs. By the same token you shouldn't be offended by a nativity scene or a Christmas tree or someone wishing you Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. I personally have always chuckled at Merry Hannakak. My rights as a Christian stop when they infringe on your rights as an atheist and your rights as an atheist stop when they infringe on mine as a Christian. Therefore who am I to say you will burn in hell. I really don't know you or what is in your heart and mind.Oh, I am still bungleling it and not expressing what I mean to say.

Bitsy

December 9, 2008
3:01 pm
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I'm still not getting it. So you're saying you're perfectly ok with these signs, correct?

December 9, 2008
3:29 pm
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They may bug me on a personal level but not to a level that I would want to file a lawsuit and make a big stink out of it. People have a right to free speech. Personally if I saw one of these signs I would roll my eyes. I am more offended by God is my Co Pilot. If you believe in my concept of God He is the Pilot and I am the co-pilot. I also am offended by Jesus-The Real Thing...I thought that was Coke- The Real Thing

Bitsy

December 9, 2008
5:26 pm
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I agree with you Bisty. I am more offended by people slighting God than not believing in Him. I am not offended by people having different beliefs. One of the main ideas of our church states that we should allow all people the privilege of worshiping, 'How, where and and what they may." I like to share my beliefs but if you prefer to worship your another god or your TV set that's fine with me.

Guest,
maybe sometimes I;ll get my ideas of time and mortal life together enought o express it. It all has to do with the idea that we are locked into the idea of that time is two dimensional, like a line. That way things have a set beginning and a set ending. someday we may understand that time is 3 dimensional like a cube or something like that and so there doesnt' have to be a beginning or an ending.

December 10, 2008
10:42 am
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Bitsy, thanks, that is great. I agree with your reactions. They are prefectly valid and not extremist or conservative. I hadnt heard of "God is my co pilot". Interesting hmmm.

Tiger ok then, yea, let me know if you have anything to say about your beliefs. I wanna hear them because you said they're different from everyone else's.

December 11, 2008
12:26 am
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guest_guest,

I watched an interesting docu type movie by Ben Stein last night called "Expelled - No intelligence allowed".

It has to do with strong scientific evidence demonstrating that their is a signature of "intelligent design" (ID) to be found in all living things and how this cutting edge science has now punched even more holes into Darwin's theories.
There have been a number of scientists/professors who've gone against the grain, so to speak, by merely making mention of the concept of "ID" & consequently have now been chastised by the scientific community/ educational system. Loss of their tenure, ridiculed, accused of just peddling re-heated creationism, etc. In reality, these were not even religious people making these discoveries.

Interestingly, when confronted, no one in the upper ranks responsible for dealing out the punishment to these ground breaking individuals would admit to the real reason for doing so.
Neither does anyone seem willing to even debate the concept of "ID" publicly or otherwise.

It's like it's scared the establishment to death. Your thots?

December 11, 2008
8:11 am
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Ben Stein? I hate him he's so dumb. I saw an interview of him and I couldnt believe that this guy was coming on TV.

Your arguments are subjective. You have to give specific examples.

>> It has to do with strong scientific evidence demonstrating that their is a signature of "intelligent design" (ID) to be found in all living things and how this cutting edge science has now punched even more holes into Darwin's theories.

This is not true. These are all subjective arguments.

>> There have been a number of scientists/professors who've gone against the grain, so to speak, by merely making mention of the concept of "ID" & consequently have now been chastised by the scientific community/ educational system. Loss of their tenure, ridiculed, accused of just peddling re-heated creationism, etc. In reality, these were not even religious people making these discoveries.

Not true again. No scientist has been chastised for being a believer of God unless they did something wrong.

Please back up your arguments with specific examples of anything that proves Darwin wrong, and name any of these scientists being "fired" for being believers.

If anything, its anyone who is an athiest gets the boot in this country. Athiests are the least trusted minority here and thats what surveys say.

December 11, 2008
10:52 am
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Craig

Ok I'm back with more details

>> It has to do with strong scientific evidence demonstrating that their is a signature of "intelligent design" (ID) to be found in all living things

This is not true at all. To support your statement or his, Ben Stien would have to deal with the wikipedia article and give specific proofs. These are complete lies which religious conservatives have been telling since a long time. They'll do anything to debunk Evolution and put it in the gutter.

So .. you'll have to provide some real proof as to what that scientific evidence is which debunks evolution. I look forward to seeing what you got.

December 12, 2008
2:14 am
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Guest,

Not exactly my arguments, just some things that were said by scientists & educators in the film who, incidentally, were not even religious people and yes, they were chastised as a result. Thot it was interesting is all. I take it then that you haven't checked out the flick?

I will say that I do think organized religion is just like an opiate for the masses. A form of oppression.

Evolution or Darwinianism, however, really just demonstrates change over time which I don't doubt but, it can't explain how life started. This relatively new scientific evidence suggests that it originated as a result of some type of Intelligent design is all.

Regarding Intelligent design, we can see that this universe and our perception of it "Maya" is partially the delusion of our senses and our powerful minds and that the true forces that form the universe, and the eternal movements of our souls, is not of the cause and effect variety that we have thought to exist previously. Like we have been taught in school all our lives.

No one, let alone you or me, has any definitive answers as to how the universe works, who causes what, whether it's a higher power or enlightened beings or whatever but, I am more open to these concepts than I ever used to be.

December 12, 2008
8:12 am
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I've heard those arguments before before: "scientists come out and dosprove evolution".

>> This relatively new scientific evidence suggests that it originated as a result of some type of Intelligent design is all.

Dont call it intelligent design, just say God. So, whats the proof? Surely it must be documented on some God-believing website. Remember any statements they made?

>> Regarding Intelligent design, we can see that this universe and our perception of it "Maya" is partially the delusion of our senses and our powerful minds and that the true forces that form the universe, and the eternal movements of our souls, is not of the cause and effect variety that we have thought to exist previously.

You're talking it for granted that I too see it like that. I dont. I dont thikn this is all a delusion and - i dont believe souls exist. There's no evidence.

When people make some kind of claim, they better come up with actual evidence rather than subjective arguements.

>> No one, let alone you or me, has any definitive answers as to how the universe works, who causes what, whether it's a higher power or enlightened beings or whatever but, I am more open to these concepts than I ever used to be.

Thats fine but I need evidence for whatever I believe in. Yes there will always be things that we dont know, but that doesnt mean they are true.

So whats the evidence for scientific proof of God's existence, I'd like to hear it.

December 12, 2008
11:04 am
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oops, typo: *disprove*

December 12, 2008
10:29 pm
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g_g,

Who says it's even a "God"?

I think we pretty much agree on our assessments of the role of religion in history but I had not seen the underlying core of this form of oppression, and that is that people do indeed have a soul and the capacity to perceive the universe in a completely different dimension entirely. I guess I could say that I had replaced the power of the state and organized religion with the power of the intellect(limited as it may be) and ego.

I do see a different side of how things work in the universe though and its not necessarily just the forces of the physical world, however, I'm sure I can't definitively prove to you the existence of a higher power nor can you disprove it. Your take seems to be that if science can't prove it then it simply cannot be but, I think that your opinions are no less subjective than mine.

What we call reality is really just what our brains have constructed, based on very limited input, and after the fact. So, I'm sure that we can see the whole picture based merely on what our limited little melons can conjure up - Not!

December 13, 2008
1:07 am
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Richard DAwkins articles are a good regarding regarding the "science is faith too". I gave those links in tez's dalai Lama thread I think.

I dont know what you believe in and I'm too tired to try to find out so yea, its cool.

December 13, 2008
2:12 am
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g_g,

To elaborate on what I said earlier about seeing a different side to how things work in the universe, & that it's not necessarily just the forces of the physical world:

Well, there's the four forces that Einstein tried to bring together
in his "unified field theory", these being gravity, electro-magnetic energy (light, heat, UV, XRay, etc), & the strong & weak forces of the atom. Science has been desperately trying to understand the forces of the atom with quantum mechanics, the opposing view to Einstein's, for more than a century now. I hear that recently some scientist discovered a new particle, much smaller than the electron, called the poson.
So, the more they dig into the atom using those super colliders, like
the one in Switzerland, the more they are seeing nothing but space, & the more they are at a loss to truly understand what matter really is or what really holds it together. They're discovering that there's really nothing there at all which must be puzzling to the western scientific mind that expects to see something, and something that can be understood & explained by human minds.

What occurs in the mind, based on the physiology of the brain, is it's all
electrical impulses that are generated from the various inputs like the optic nerve or internal thought processes. Reality occurs and then the brain picks up various stimuli. ie; light, heat, sound, sensation, and then converts these into electrical impulses in the brain, which takes time, several hundred milliseconds actually. So like I said, what we call reality is just something our brains, given limited input, have put together after the fact. Electricity, a form of the four forces Einstein was trying to unite, or EMF, electro-magnetic energy, is just another form of light, one of the Einsteinian constants of the universe. So, in short, all western science is based on light dancing inside our
craniums. Hmm?

Like I said, I can't prove or disprove how the universe works, who or what caused or causes it to be but, I am at least open to other concepts & I'm sure that science will never be able to provide an explanation that proves there isn't more to it. So, I think for someone to hang all their beliefs on science alone is probably pretty closed minded really.

The problems with the "ID" concept occur when the political wings of organized religion get hold of it and want to pump up their perceived power in the world by trying to decrease the power of science and the incredible curiousity that is heir to the human race by numbing us down with their institutionalized bible thumping, TV ratings resulting in revenues to various churches, and pushing the centralized state to enact more laws the take away our personal freedoms.

It goes both ways, the ignorance of physical science not seeing the
spiritual forces of the universe, and the ignorance of organized
religion, an organ of the centralized state, that tries to indoctrinate
people, force ideas into their heads, that will more benefit their power
base than enlighten their flock.

Re "ID": There's a book that I'd like to read by Paramahansa Yogananda.
It's called "Autobiography of a Yogi". A buddy of mine from the states read it a couple of years ago & he claims that it had a huge impact on him & everything he does. I think he may send it to me for xmas. Hope so. Apparently it covers the subject of "intelligent design" quite nicely.

December 13, 2008
10:10 pm
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>> So like I said, what we call reality is just something our brains, given limited input, have put together after the fact.

This is not true. The things we are seeing and sensing are still there even if our brains stopped sensing them.

What is this Poson particle? I couldnt find anything onm the web on it. Got the correct spelling or any references?

>> science will never be able to provide an explanation that proves there isn't more to it.

Thats true and it will always be true yes. Science doesnt claim to have the answers for everything. How can we prove the truthfulness of something that science does not affirm?

So.. you believe in God. How about prophets and holy books and the Bible and jesus, do you believe in any of this?

December 13, 2008
11:46 pm
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Yeah, it is true. It's after the fact and based only on our limited senses.
We're not getting the real picture.

I do believe in a higher power of sorts, but I don't buy into any of the typical religious dogma as I think my previous replies have clearly demonstrated.

December 13, 2008
11:54 pm
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g_g,

>>How can we prove the truthfulness of something that science does not affirm?

I think that true understanding occurs outside the mind, or when the mind has been sufficiently quieted for real perception to occur.

>>What is this Poson particle?

Later I'll see what else I can find out about the "poson".

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