Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Assembling a motorcycle from memory
December 2, 2004
7:37 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

You said:

"Finding the 'I'm sorry' one is difficult."

Yep! Trying see through the thin veil that stands between our conscious and unconscious thought processes is difficult. One has to get to the point of feeling free to see and accept that which we don't like about ourselves - i.e. self-aversions.

This is why the Buddhists include aversions as being just as undesirable as attachments to impermanent people, places and things. Such attachments and/or aversions ultimate lead to suffering.

Without any attachments or aversions we would be free to just 'be'- free to see ourselves as we really are, nots as we would like ourselves to be, or how we see ourselves now, or as we think others see us.

You said:

"You know, I didn't do this for so long! It was a habit I thought was behind me and with this guy....it was right up front!!!"

Ingrained past conditioning is hard to unlearn - isn't it.

You said:

"I almost could not stop myself."

Our emotions, whether we are consciously aware of them or not, seem to drive most of us most of the time. Our cognitions then serve our emotions by trying to rationalize them in order to idendify the real or imagined 'threat'.

What we call feelings are our conscious awareness of our emotional state. There is an unconscious emotional state that is always with us also. Often times stomach ulcers are the by-product of the continuous arousal of unconscious negative emotions shutting down our digestive processes when they shouldn't. The reason fear shuts down our digestive processes is to maximize energy for the fight or flight body responses.

You said:

"... Now what the hell!!"

Yes ... what the hell does it all matter! Does our striving for the mantenance of our own welfare and that of our support network lead to what is in our best interests or theirs? Is our constant striving for whatever it is that we pursue, really how we really want to live our life? Nothing in life can be grabbed hold of. Everything comes and goes on life's conveyor belt - even us. The end of the conveyor belt is looming large for me. Many of my relatives, friends and acquaintances have fallen off the end already. šŸ™‚

December 3, 2004
5:07 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh Tez, don't fall off at least not now...please...

I know we would be somewhere... but not as this..

I think you are referring to what I think of as the mirror. If there is something in another I can not accpet or repels me, I need to see the place within me that holds it still. I would like to pay attention to this and all the little niceties I know about growing.

It's funny how I start to think about a particular process, like my triggers, and I find this talk everywhere!!!as if to accelerate my awareness whether I like it or not!! But, is the idea to feel the pain or decide none of it is really that important. Not as important as simply being.......

I am thinking this is what you mean here...."Yes ... what the hell does it all matter! Does our striving for the mantenance of our own welfare and that of our support network lead to what is in our best interests or theirs?

Is our constant striving for whatever it is that we pursue, really how we really want to live our life? "

My answer is NO!!!

December 4, 2004
7:30 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

You said:

"But, is the idea to feel the pain or decide none of it is really that important. Not as important as simply being......."

The answer to this question depends on the consciousness level from which we come at the question.

At a higher consciousness level, the answer is not a case of either/or but rather a case of both/and.

We can feel the pain and recognize it for what it is - a signal that might or might not be point out damage or the threat of damage to what we perceive as our self, including all its extensions.

If we realize the relative importance of the threat, then can then act accordingly in an appropriate way.

Having acted appropriately, at the same time on another level we can realize that our life is but one small part of an infinite continuum into which all of life is interlocked and on which this life of mine is inextricably interdependent and interwoven. Nothing comes from nothing or goes into nothingness - only the patterns are changing. On this level, 'being' present to the moment, feeling feelings to the fullest but not getting caught up in them brings a serenity, a peace amidst the turmoil, a calm in the eye of the storm.

Because attachment and aversion are minimal at this absolute level, fear has no real relevance. There is no absolute selfhood to be threatened in any way. This state, of which I speak but know so little about, is called 'nirvana' or 'enlightenment'.

I am not advocating opting out of our responsibilities and "navel gazing" to quote someone else on this site. We ought to look after our physical, mental and 'spiritual' welfare help others do the same. But it is our attitude to doing these things that make them either a struggle or a pleasurable experience.

"The mind is its own place. In it, it can create a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven."

Our perceptions of the nature of what we call 'the self' governs which mind state will predominate. We can see this world as being full of predators and the protection of the integrity of the 'self' as our most vital concern - then we will suffer.

Alternatively we can see the world as a wonderful place full of interdependent processes all inextricably linked in an infinite procession of events in an infinitely complex matrix of cause and effects. In such a world there is nothing to be gained or lost and no one gain or lose anything.

The ultimate question is do we want to experience suffering - as opposed to pain - or not. We cannot avoid the pain that comes with old age, sickness and death in this life, but suffering because of it is optional. Only our lack of knowledge, insights and realizations makes it appear otherwise.

From the midst of the horrors that he experienced in Auschwitz extermination camp in WW2, Professor Viktor Frankl, the father of the School of Psychology known as Logotherapy, recounts this beautiful true story.

"This young woman knew that she would die in the next few days. But when I talked to her in spite of this knowledge. "I am grateful that fate has hit me so hard," she told me. "In my former life I was spoiled and did not take spiritual accomplishments seriously." Pointing through the window of the hut, she said, "This tree here is the only friend I have in my lonliness." Through that window she could see just one branch of a chestnut tree, and on the branch were two blossoms. "I often talk to the tree," she said to me. I was startled and didn't quite know how to take her words. Was she delirious? Did she have occasional hallucinations? Anxiously I asked her if the tree replied. "Yes." What did it say to her? She answered, "It said to me, 'I am here-I am here-I am life, eternal life.'"

December 5, 2004
1:05 am
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,

I have read Viktor Frankel's book and felt humbled.

I have always been a positive person. Mind over matter, glass half full, silver lining, pollyanna even!! Maybe this is why I attract certain unsavory types of relationships and I would not be honest to say I have not been influenced negatively over the last 25 years. Some of what helps me is my thought process. I realise I always had choices Tez. This realization contributes to my ability to consider forgiveness. It is coming along! LOL

I have no regrets in life choices either. What would be the point? I learn, if I pay attention to the lesson and if not, the universe is kind enough to provide it again!! Besides, experience can be a teacher in itself.

Perspective is the key element in everything and thank you for reminding me of a wonderful tool I haven't used in quite awhile!! I think I have been too focused on my own needs and forgetting many have it worse. It doesn't mean I should negate my feelings just keep it in the right perspective for viewing.

Speaking my truth is a main goal at this point in my life. It takes me some time to boil things down to this nugget but I do. I hope to never be that woman who allowed her power to be taken so freely again but I do not have to live defensively. In fact, this knowledge of my choices should free me towards being able to live an honest life with a myriad of experiences to explore.

Life feels good today Tez.

December 5, 2004
3:45 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMG Twinks, I have been thinking just that thought lately!! I have been going over, in my mind, what some people view as attraction. What some people call love.

Sad state of affairs. Some one posted in support a thread regarding unconditional love. What are anyones thoughts on this nebulous concept?

December 5, 2004
4:47 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit

Your response of the 5-Dec-04 was both very good and extremely well written.

You said:

" I realise I always had choices Tez. This realization contributes to my ability to consider forgiveness."

For me the benefits of forgiveness seem to be mostly for the 'forgiver' rather than for the 'forgiven'. Most of us don't want to forgive because we want to both retaliate and to maintain the 'fort' built out of the fabric of the 'transgression'. That is, we want to 'attack' the transgressor and defend ourselves against future 'offences' that may be committed by this person. To forgive is to open the gates of our heart to greater vulnerability.

Before we can forgive, we must of necessity first have taken offence in some way. The very act of looking deeply into how and why we were offended cab be extremely beneficial. This act of looking deeply into ourselves can sometimes shine a spotlight on our long standing, often unconsciously held, and sometimes false beliefs that underpin the offence that we have taken. When false or irrational beliefs are exposed to us in this way, we can discard them over time therein removing the seeds of the taking further offences. This can eliminate further pain and suffering as well as the very need to forgive in the first place.

December 5, 2004
5:48 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So, by taking ownership of the experience and opening to the forgiveness opportunity, I can also go a step further and realize there is nothing to forgive. The whole set of circumstances, if forgivable, is mute because of the awareness of responsibility. Because of the awareness of perspective, lesson learned, necessity of experience, and ultimate result!!!

So, if the ultimate result is where you want to be any way, you may never have gotten there with out the experience and ....a thank you is in order..

LOL

Amazing!!! I can't stop chuckling over this!! Thanks for the help with this process.

December 6, 2004
5:14 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

Well ... the way it seems to work for me is this:

Firstly, I become aware of my anger and my thoughts that someone has done something to me with either malevolent intent or disregard for my interests. To get to the stage of anger, my unconscious has done a hell of a lot of processing of which, by definition, I am totally unaware.

If I choose to act on the anger, then I am simply on autopilot defending myself against what I perceive to be an attack. I usually make the situation worse by attacking back by doing what I have done ever since childhood. I do what a lot of animals do. I put on a show of either active or passive aggression. The other person becomes aggressive either actively or passively in response. Things escalate into a no-win situation for either of us. Albeit at times it seems that I win, in these situations I never really do. A long lasting resentment sets into concrete and that person is written off in one way or another.

On the other hand, I sometimes stop and think. I ask myself, "What are the dynamics here? How am I under attack? How have I perceived myself to have been diminished - in what way? What intent have I automatically attributed to the person who I think 'offended' me? Is there any evidence to justify this attribution?" I usually find that I have projected into the 'offender' motives without substantiation. Oftentimes I find that what is diminished in me is nothing more than a delusory self-image and its related self-esteem. I find that I have misplaced my responsibility for my own feelings onto the other person, holding them responsible for the thought processes and feelings that are a legacy of my childhood trauma. Upon such realizations my anger vanishes with the willo'the'wisp thought processes that created it in the first place. The 'offense' then usually evaporates making forgiveness almost redundant except in so far as to both forgive myself for doing what I did to myself to cause my anger based suffering and to let the 'offender' know that there are no hard feelings.

On the other hand, I sometimes I come across a sick person who really is out to rip the world off. An incorporated dance club to which I belong, has a history of faction fighting and upheaval. Some years ago, for about 18 mths, I was the president of the club. I brought about a revival of the club and resigned my presidency when it was at a peak in numbers and morale. Now, the present management committee is presided over by an unprincipled president with total disregard for both the incorporated club constitution and the law of the land. He and his committee seem hellbent on winding up the club at the next AGM to be held on the 20th January 2004. There is hard evidence to substantiate this belief of mine. This guy, the president, is totally unapproachable. If approached by someone with a issue, in angry tones, he resorts to "if you don't like how I am doing the job, do it yourself." He has done this to me several times. So, I decided to send him an open letter with an attachment containing relevant extracts from the Associations Incorporation Act 1981 which defines the letter of the law. The letter made no judgement on the committees decisions nor the presidents actions. It simply drew their attention to the law in relation to same. This letter was CCed to all ordinary club members as well. My intent was to galvanize the club into opposing its closure at the AGM. Well ... the president attacked my verbally in public, screaming irrational abuse at me, trying to denigrate me so that the membership will disregard my open letter. I became very angry, but I was able to respond by drawing the focus back onto the law all the time. The club now is fighting for its very existence.

Am I offended by the club president's many malicious and totally untrue statements that he angrily made about me, in public? No, I am not. I see him for what he is - a totally self-unaware man. He is on autopilot and I refuse to make him responsible for my feelings, My feelings are totally my responsibility as are my actions in putting the letter around the club. My feelings about his behavior, which are intense, come from my conditioned feeling responses resulting partly but not totally because of my father's 'unjust' and 'unloving' treatment of me so long ago. I have 'forgiven' both my father and my self for this past conditioning. But that act of forgiveness does not stop the retriggering of the feelings associated with the past but that are reactivated in the present. Today, my suffering that was triggered off by this president's abuse is gone. Though I would never trust him in any sort of business dealings, I could easily be on friendly terms with him. I feel good about the situation. I'm sure that he is suffering still and will continue to do so. I wish that I could help him see where his suffering is coming from, but I cannot. I have compassion for him but that does not mean that I have to put myself in harm's way for no good reason.

I hope the above story exemplifies the point I am trying to make about getting to the point where forgiveness is unnecessary when no offence is taken. Taking no offence is the result of seeing where one's own feelings are coming from and taking total responsibility for assuaging them within the self - that is, not deflecting responsibility onto real or imagined transgressors in either the past, the present or the future and trying to feel better by going on the 'offensive'.

December 6, 2004
8:53 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But Tez, did you see what I wrote to you? I think I got that!

What upsets me about your story most is the part about your father.

I am a woman(you probably know that) I think the truth is, men and women look at issues very differently as illustrated in your story. When I relate a story, my mind goes to the lesson. Well, so does yours but, not without proving your point first. Though, I think you handled it well, it is still different than I could do it. Does this make sense? If not, it may be a gender thing.

I have two boys, 23 and 18. Both have dealt with their father's wrath...do it my way or I reject you!!! I F'IN HATED THAT!! Sorry, it gets me very angry still. These are my children and I suppose only other women totally get, with ownership, the mother lion feeling. You have the child perspective because you've been there and that is alo9t but for me....I feel like a man who cannot make the equipment work!!! You know what I mean now!????

I just let a lot go there so I hope you see where I am coming from.

My oldest child has declared he is gay. I love this kid no matter what and he knows that. My children also know I will accept their feelings, no matter what. I will never declare them out of my life for any reason because I take being a parent as a sacred responsibility. Not duty or drudgery but one of the best experiences of my life.

Ok, done for now...more later!!!

December 7, 2004
4:21 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well twinks, the difference in what you are saying is I finally realized I had the choices. If someone gave them to me it doesn't gaurantee I would feel the ownership. No one can give you something you know you already have.

Which takes me back to the original issue I tangented from: forgiveness.

I do see how your illustrated story helps Tez. In fact, though I would behave differently, I sense a feeling of calm about your situation that is certainly worth getting to!

The problem with "not putting myself in harms way" is, easier said than done. I still have to see my ex, for instance and my mind has a hard time wrapping around the type of thinking he does. I want to be calm and just know that I am....and that I will always be.....

December 7, 2004
5:54 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

Gotcha. Maternal instincts coupled with right-brained predominance certainly does result in a very different perspective on things than does a left-brain testosterone driven one. The book 'Men are from Mars, Women from Venus' highlights this point.

Which is better for the welfare of all depends upon from which perspective one is viewing it, I suppose.

I personally think that a balance of both hemispherical brain activity combined with maintaining the emotions in quiescent state is the ideal.

The Hindi religion with their symbolism underpinning their concept of the male/female God, Vishnu, exemplifies this ideal as does Jungian concepts of the balance of the animus and the anima within an individual. Perhaps this is why it is better to raise children in a two parent family.

You said:

"The problem with "not putting myself in harms way" is, easier said than done. I still have to see my ex, for instance and my mind has a hard time wrapping around the type of thinking he does."

I can understand that.

And you followed up with:

" I want to be calm and just know that I am....and that I will always be..... "

Yes, I can understand you wanting that as well. This "calm" is what I mean by emotions being in a quiescent state. The only way that I can see that this is possible is by having conscious control over our unconscious thought processes that evoke negative emotional responses.

How can this control be achieved when the very thoughts that we want to control are unconscious? We first have to make them conscious; that is, we have to become aware of them. Science tells us that the thoughts about which we are aware, are only the tip of an iceberg of unconscious thoughts, beliefs, 'scripts', memories, etc. As a tool to break throught the veil to get to this unconscious part of the iceberg, meditation is invaluable. Otherwise we can just accept running on our unconscious autopilot and experience all the rough weather that mindless preconditioning will guarantee us encountering.

This is another choice that we can make - if we are aware of it; i.e. to run on 'auto pilot' or 'manual control'. šŸ™‚

December 7, 2004
11:20 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That is the crux of my search right now Tez!!! I am seeking the way toward knowing my triggers, my unconcious responses to experiences past that do not, should not have a hold on my present moments...but they do.

I want to be aware!!!!

Meditation, yes this is definitely a tool I have used and has worked for me. Taking this time again will take some discipline on my part as life is so much more complicated today than when I last was in this pattern. The problem for me has always been finding the answers and rejecting the fix. Time and time again. Hence, the lesson is only mine when I learn it, otherwise the universe keeps putting it in my way!

I feel very lucky to have an intuition that is a bit more over the top than many people i come in contact with. I don't feel special for this only lucky. I would feel better if I used this gift to more of an advantage though! Wish me luck Tez.

December 9, 2004
9:39 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

You asked:

"Wish me luck Tez. "

I would rather wish you good karma.

I'm not sure that this thing called 'luck' exists. I suspect that we reap what we sow. But because cause and effect relationships in our lives are often so complex and displaced by time with respect to each other, we often attribute the cause of what we think are random occurrences that we like, to having 'good luck'. Similarly, we attribute the cause of negative events for which the cause is obscure, to 'bad luck'.

Some days are diamonds, others are gold ...

December 10, 2004
1:38 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh I love that Tez. It's funny how you have processed all the knowledge you've gained into your life. Well, not funny, good.

I know all the concepts and embrace them but, living them and relating them into my life I'm still fumbling with.

At least I am trying.

I'm not sure if I ever told you I am into Numerology. My life path number is 37/10. The 10 represents an ending of karma. Meaning, I'm paying it out this time and hopefully understanding the repercussions of what was not understood previously. I do not like to look at life in terms of good and bad. Everything has its purpose and what may be a bad experience for one very well could be good for another. Most probably.

Anyway, the luck thing...this really is true but, I also believe in laws of attraction. Belif in an outcome can attract it to you if you can let go of the outcome. I have seen in my life, too often I am orchestrating events. Thinking and scheming about how to achieve my "needs". I've understood lately this backfires. The only way to really achieve what should be is to believe it will be and trust the outcome is already a fact.

December 10, 2004
6:25 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

"I do not like to look at life in terms of good and bad. Everything has its purpose and what may be a bad experience for one very well could be good for another."

I totally agree. We judge everything very subjectively. What today might seem bad tomorrow might tomorrow seem good.

Years ago I remember someone recounting the story of being pushed over very violently by someone he disliked. The 'victim' got up ready to fight only to realize that his 'enemy' had pushed him out of the way of a falling brick that had been accidently knocked off scaffolding above. The victim had suddenly changed his interpretation of the event from an aggressive to a kind act.

This story has remained stuck in my mind ever since. We all tend to interprete events and broadly classify them into three major categories; that which benefits 'me',that which harms 'me' and that which has no effect on 'me'. Of course even this categorization is subject to the degree of insight that I have into who I really am and how what happens My ego severely distort my perspectives on this. For example, I think that being ripped off is bad and I suffer. I think that the rip off merchant is the cause of my suffering. But... it is my beliefs about who and what I am combined with the effects of losing goods, property money, relationships, reputation etc that causes the emotional pain and suffering.

Imagine how differently I would feel if I discovered that the man who ripped me off for a few bucks was living in poverty and only wanted to buy his young children christmas presents or medicine for their dying mother. I would then feel good about being able to help and the rip off wuold turn from bad to good within the instant of discovering the true motive behind the crime.

Since we mostly never know the motives of others nor where they are coming from in their distant past, we can take great comfort in the knowledge that these events are only transient happenings - in the ever moving conveyor belt of life - that, objectively speaking, are neither good, neutral nor bad; they just 'are'. Peace and serenity are the outcome of this perspective.

But is this philosophy going to result in leaving the 'gate open' for every predator who chooses to do so to get at us???? šŸ™‚

December 11, 2004
6:27 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"But is this philosophy going to result in leaving the 'gate open' for every predator who chooses to do so to get at us???? :-)"

If so Tez, would you change? I know i would not. I have felt better about much of my life since accepting me for who I am.

I like your story about the rip off. When I have been through this experience or, when I lose money or something important, I try to let it go and think, the person who finds it will probably need it more than I do. This makes me feel that inadvertantly, I might have helped someone!! Kind of Pollyanna but it works for me!

The Four Agreements is all about the non-judging thing. If we never assumed we would always be patient and accepting of life and it's non-planned events (aren't they all?) Since we don't know the ending until it happens, why try to write the last page first?

December 12, 2004
4:44 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

Yes - self-acceptance, warts and all is the name of the game. We are born in our head, live our life there and finally die alone there. We sure better like being there, or else ... .

I liked what Carl Jung said to the reporter who, at the end of Jung's life, asked him to sum up his life in a single sentence. Jung thought for a while and then said words to this effect: - 'My life has been a journey down a ladder into a deep, dark hole in the ground to find that little clod of earth at the bottom that is myself and to make friends with it.'

Obviously Jung was talking about his unconscious and in particular his 'shadow' that he likened to a little clod of earth.

So when we talk about self-acceptance, I think that we must first have climbed down the same Jungian ladder and have discovered that little clod of dank, foul smelling earth that appears to be 'us'.

Secondly, for self-acceptance to sprout its first shoots, we are well advised to see past it to discover who and what we really 'are'.

December 14, 2004
1:25 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

yes yes!! The part who knowingly orchestrated my last failed marriage, thepart that drinks too often and sometimes too much, the part that.............ohoh, can't start pulling myself apart right here in front of myself!! LOL

I really understand this more and more Tez. It's the darkness that hurts until you bring it out into the light to take a better look. Some of what I've admitted to myself and some close friends lately, is what makes me who I am, as does the other things I'd readily admit were mine! Good and bad, right and wrong, it all serves. But seeing the bad or off things for what they are is an interesting part of this journey. Guilt would seem to say I thought I was wrong or bad or not good enough in some abstract way.But, as I realize guilt is only keeping me from growing, I have relaxed my expectations of myself to see what my actions have done or do for me.

The truth is, no one on this plane of existence is perfect. In fact, I am afraid, if we don't make some major changes here, are we going to survive as a race? But, then again, why be afraid of what eventualities are out there. I think going within and finding the connectedness is what is important for all of us. In this way, we can all treat each other better because we would know the truth.

December 14, 2004
11:29 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

What you say sounds good to me.

What I mean by 'good' is that which leads us to a state of mind that is calm, yet aware, peaceful yet responsive, carefree yet not careless.

In my estimation, guilt is
a perfidious thing without many saving graces. What we call 'feelings of guilt' are usually fear of rejection, of disapproval. We fear being disconnected from out support group whoever they may be. So we feel guilty about offending these people. Oftentimes we feel guilty even when we know dammed well that we did the right thing. Shame is something that many of us felt in early childhood. It is very easy for people who are prominent in our lives to retrigger feelings of shame and guilt in us just because we offend them in some way.

Obviously it is a good thing to recognize where we could have acted more appropriately and to correct our selves. But to wallow in maudalin guilt over not being how we want to be or who we think we should be, is to sit in judgement upon ourselves from a position of assumed omniscience. Hmmm!

The ego demands a high price for the maintenence of the illusion of its existence. It demands constant vigilance and peace of mind, serenity and awareness of who we really are is the price tag.

December 14, 2004
11:58 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ok this brings me to support threads.
Why don't you post there? So many can benefit from your point of view! Thank goodness I am a rebel and an explorer!

Tonight I answered a young guy who was offended by someones thread about men. She was angry aND I fed into it saying oh oh me too ( hate men) blah blah. Now, this was done in fun on my part, anger on the posters part and defensiveness on the young man's part. I osted to him to chill. This was done in fun and I apologized if he was offended.

I'm somewhat tired of everyone taking things personally,(which may be a mirror huh?) but, I do understand. Is this why you don't post? I did think about it and realized, maybe something will trigger in him or maybe not.

What do you think?

December 15, 2004
5:36 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

"Ok this brings me to support threads. Why don't you post there?"

Hmmmm!! I have been posting on this web site ever since its inception. It had been going only about 2 or 3 months then and had only a handful of people coming here. I posted continually on both the Support and this thread then.

In time I realized that the vast majority of posters were women. In addition, I realized that the vast majority wanted nothing more than the validation of their own non-functional behavior and thinking that caused their unhappiness. They were only seeking answers that made them feel good. Most, if not all, needed complete paradigm shifts in their thinking. Yet all seemed determined to fight changing their mindsets to the bitter end - mindsets that were causing their pain.

To boot, most had unresolved issues with their parents. In particular, being mainly women, many had big unfinished issues with their fathers, but didn't know it.

Being male, rational and somewhat unemotional in my responses, I triggered off these issues by my style of writing. I found myself being setup and under attack many times (payback to 'dad' for real or imagined abuse).

I realized that I was a surrogate dad upon which to heap their shit. I coped it for as long as I could and then said "enough is enough". Freudian transference and projection are a well understood phenomenona, but that doesn't mean that I will keep coping shit.

You exemplified my point here when you wrote:

"Tonight I answered a young guy who was offended by someones thread about men."

I don't get offended like he did. I just disengage immediately, I suspect this type of man hating behavior. I simple go to where people with intelligence want to discuss issues at some depth - not just seek touchy feely yet non-productive 'feel good' exchanges.

I hope that answers your question, albeit somewhat bluntly.

December 15, 2004
7:47 pm
Avatar
bel
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Tez,
Just wanted to pop in here and say I took our chats to heart and have made many changes in my life. Or the way I look at things and have dealt with my issues and accepted the fact that none of it was my fault. I am doing alot better and I dont whine and say woe is me anymore like I used to. šŸ™‚

I am having difficulties in my life still but I am better able to deal with them and if I cannot do it alone then I get help. At times there can be no help and we have to accept that and move on. I am dealing with my son and his girlfriends problems well not dealing but IM there and I see all that is going on and yes to a degree I am involved but not letting it get me to down, but it is tiring and I am getting more and more responsible for her girls ages 12 and 13 but I love them and will do all that I can to help them through these sad times with their mom.

Happy Holidays Tez!!!

Always
Bel

December 16, 2004
2:34 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez, thanks for the history. That explains much. I hope you do not think I was giving this young guy a hard time. In fact, as I am writing this let me say, you could also have been saying to me, "see what I mean?" (I'm trying to stop defensive reactions and see what else a person could be saying. )

You stated, "I realized that I was a surrogate dad upon which to heap their shit. I coped it for as long as I could and then said "enough is enough". Freudian transference and projection are a well understood phenomenona, but that doesn't mean that I will keep coping shit." I think this is a common occurence here. I am wondering myself lately why there are not many who say, "Give me some positive steps" or better yet, "here's a positive step to recovery!" I know everyone learns in their own time and in the right place but it is true, if you label yourself too firmly, you may learn to love the label! Or at least not be able to cope without it.

I read an article on this very issue lately. I'll look for it and post for you. I like to hear your opinions. Any way, the article stated, if we as a race do not clean up our act and get real about who we truly are, there is not going to be much world left to protect. I started to think, what are we all doing here to take steps toward accepting ourselves and getting on with the business of healing this planet and human relationships?

Maybe I'll become an environmentalist.

December 16, 2004
6:07 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Bel

I'm glad to hear that you are doing so well. Keep it up, eh.

Happy Xmas to you too.

December 16, 2004
6:22 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

"I hope you do not think I was giving this young guy a hard time."

Your issue with the offended young guy occupied about 15 milliseconds in my thought processing and then dissappeared. Since I know absolutely nothing about what happened or what was said by any parties, I thought very little about it and drew no conclusions whatsoever other than that he was offended by the general behavior of women on this site - end of story.

"I read an article on this very issue lately. I'll look for it and post for you. I like to hear your opinions. Any way, the article stated, if we as a race do not clean up our act and get real about who we truly are, there is not going to be much world left to protect. I started to think, what are we all doing here to take steps toward accepting ourselves and getting on with the business of healing this planet and human relationships? "

I will read your article with great interest. Thanks.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
25
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110929
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38539
Posts: 714214
Newest Members:
stanley, LarteyWellnessGroup, dr ado spell caster, Leslie Ann Satin, overmyhead201, delight1080
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer