Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Assembling a motorcycle from memory
November 2, 2004
4:43 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Twinks.

"I meant to say, Tez, that perhaps our compassion is what gets people like me into trouble in the first place, and it's what keeps us in the chains. It gets thrown up against the wall and smashed to pieces."

You are right in what you say. Compassion without wisdom will most probably get you and others into deep trouble. Compassion without wisdom can be dangerous.

Compassion does not imply either indulgence or approval of the behavior of others, as you seem to be implying.

Compassion certainly is a "sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it". How one goes about fulfilling that "desire", is a whole new ball game, though. For example, 'tough love' often entails curtailing the actions of others. Actions of terrorism can be curtailed by Chairman Mao's barrell of a gun or by Mahatma Gandhi's passive resistance. Who do you think was most effective in obtaining freedom for his people? Both may well have had compassion for the suffering of their people. But one had wisdom whilst the other, well ...

The repercussion of Sept 11th is being seen in Iraq today. What do you think the repercussions of Bush's misguided actions will be? The seeds have been sown for wars between generations to come - if the world should last that long. Was Sept 11th completely unrelated to 'Desert Storm' or was it Bush Senior et. al's legacy? Like father, like son?

Violence breeds more violence, aggression more aggression and fear more fear, hatred more hatred. The two winged bird of wisdom and compassion breeds more of the same. However it takes time and plenty of the little recognized virtue of patience under insult - Rome wasn't built in a day. We all would do well to remember that "It all starts with me".

November 3, 2004
4:36 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Twinks.

"I'll save the compassion for their victims."

You don't see the 'perpetrator' as a "victim" of his/her own ignorance of what is driving him/her, as your 'ex' certainly would seem to be?

If we knew all that there was to know about ourselves and others then we would love unconditionally. Only our ignorance,that results in a lack of insight and goodwill, restricts us, myself included.

November 4, 2004
4:25 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Twinks.

You said:

"... I bet it wasn't."

I hope you didn't put any significant sums of money down on this bet, especially with your local 'bookie'.

And you also asked:

"So what was your lightbulb moment?"

What 'purchased' my light bulb moment?

At the time of my incarceration, it was the love and compassion that I received from a policeman and a catholic priest, my two worst kind enemies at the time, apart from myself, that precipitated a 'spiritual experience' that resulted in a huge paradigm shift in my thinking. I thought both were poofters with ulterior motives. How completely wrong I was. It was then that the long, hard slog to my recovery started. That will be 32 years ago on the 31st January next year.

Read Victor Hugo's 'Les Miserables', especially the part where the Catholic priest buys the convicts 'soul' with a terrific act of compassion. However, a lot of wisdom was involved in Hugo's and both my priest and policeman's decisions to act as they did. Neither I nor Victor Hugo's felon deserved any compassion whatsoever - from a perspective of ignorance that is. Nevertheless, it changed both our lives dramatically. Many years ago, my priest died defrocked and insane, in a hopeless state of alcoholism - to me he was a saint, despite what his ignorant parishoners thought!!

I have a lot of 'hard yards' experience from the university of hard knocks to back up my formally and informally learnt 'theories' from more institutionalized places of learning, I am glad to say. But we must all walk our own walks - no one can do it for us. Choose harsh judgements and get hell for our trouble. That is a lesson that I have learnt well.

"Compassion: 'sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it'"

I have compassion for you when I emphasize with what I feel are your feelings when you are thinking about your ex.

I also have the desire to alleviate your "distress", suffering, dissatisfaction, 'dis-ease', resentment, or whatever you choose to call it.

Whether wisdom underpins how I am interacting with you, remains yet to be seen. 'Seeds' once planted often take years to germinate. I wish you nothing but the the very best.

November 8, 2004
5:23 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Twinks.

You said:

"Oh puh-lease! How am I supposed to go off for a period of navel-contemplation with the aim of achieving some kind of serenity if you come out with stuff like that, Tez?"

I don't think that navel-contemplation and what I practice has much, if anything, in common. However, contempt for anything before investigation is bound to keep anyone in everlasting ignorance. But ...the choice is yours. If you are happy with your angry feelings towards your ex then you are at liberty to stay that way.

Then you said:

"Incarceration, police, insane defrocked priests? You are going to have to tell me the story."

No - sorry. My story is far to long to try to post here. Many bits of it have been posted on different threads since this site started in 1997?

Also:

"I notice though that the 'instruments' of your spiritual experience were not your victims. How much easier is it to have compassion for those who are suffering but have done you no wrong?"

Oh, yes they were - to an extent that if I were in their shoes I would have given me the 'works' rather than show me compassion.

November 14, 2004
7:22 am
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

twinks, I wanted to post this reply here because I sure didn't want to create conflict!! LOL

Yeah, I know what you are talking about. I started to worry there might be more but then I posted anyway. It's eerily reminescent of my first ex. Hence the harum!!!! and hence my succumbing to the lure!

I still allow this falling into victim thing and I am glad you popped in!! I found you when I went to see my response and I laughed LOL There are actually several of these types on here lately. Becoming a land mine of mind games!

November 17, 2004
4:04 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Twinks and Tez, where are you guys? I never hear from you Tez, I miss you.

Twinks, I saw a post that sent it home even further. Guess I'm glad you noticed my response. Thanks

November 18, 2004
11:37 am
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't get that sense from Tez. I do believe he'll be around. You t6wo seem to get into it very well and hey, that should be a compliment to him.. Not many have that ability.

I see you workin on things twinks and I know you know you'll be OK. Life is what we make it and you are makin away!!! Just stay as loose as you can without letting yourself go. I find when I am wound too tightly there is no room for error and then the deep end comes up way too quick!

It's nice hearing from you and any time you need me...I'll be around!!!!!!!!!

November 19, 2004
8:34 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

"I do believe he'll be around."

You are correct - I'm here reading, reading, reading ... šŸ™‚

November 19, 2004
11:17 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So what's up Tez? I sure do miss your wisdom. Well, I know you don't see that all the time but I do.

I still need to respond to the last post you sent me. The one with the Vietnamese writings? Profoundy timed I must say.

What do you think of the changes around here? Libs used to be so quiet. Seems a bit invasive but that's me liking my space. This reminds me of the chaos theory. Things are in a state of flux and soon enough the dust will settle and order will reign again...until the next time!

November 20, 2004
10:22 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

You asked:

"What do you think of the changes around here?"

It makes sorting through so much 'noise' for anything of any 'significance' quite time consumptive and laborious.

November 21, 2004
3:43 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Significance is relative to the person viewing the material.

Noise level? That's a funny one but I get it!!!

I've been observing quite a bit lately too. It's funny what you notice when you are not thinking ahead toward a response. It's sort of focused attention to the actual conversation. Certainly a mesage for me in communicating.

I am in my 5th online class and it happens to be Comm 102. My focus is tuned to communicating through this course so eyeing everything from this space is shifting my perspective. Silence is a wonderful teacher.

November 21, 2004
5:07 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

"Significance is relative to the person viewing the material."

It certainly is.

"Silence is a wonderful teacher."

It surely is. Silence is golden - if we use it well.

November 21, 2004
5:49 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hell, I didn't mean to bring up the subject but since I did...Tez?

November 21, 2004
8:18 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

maybe..........Tez, what are you doing?

November 22, 2004
4:05 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

You asked:

"Tez, what are you doing?"

'Being'.

November 23, 2004
10:18 am
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez, I need some understanding here. Why is twinks all uptight?

Have you seen some of the posts in support? I am having difficulty getting the jist of this. I feel like a naive frikkin school girl who has no understanding of the real world or in this case cyber world.

Feedback?

November 23, 2004
3:13 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What I do not get twinks is what difference it all makes. Maybe I do have a certain naivity in the face of this issue but I never recognized it before either. What I do recognize are my points of discomfort. When that happens my response is flight not fight.

That's me twinks, I'll probably never change. But, I have learned to accept this in me and hey, I like myself too.

I don't do the right thing all the time but I really hate confrontation. I know it's codep, so what? I also don't sit too tight when I am vbeiong hurt. My way works for me and frankly, I really like Tez and Cactus. Now, I hope I did not alienate either one.

I don't want to alienate you either but I feel you look down on my way of handling problems. I could be wrong....maybe.

Am I making sense to you? Should I clarify anything here?

November 23, 2004
7:36 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ah but twinks, you are putting it on someone else to feel your pain when the only one who can really understand it is you. I feel my own pain, I know others can't get it because it's mine. Simple enough.

You have so much happening all at once and it seems like you want someone to suffer as you are suffering. So, stop suffering. Start seeing what it is in your heart that needs to come out and enjoy itself for a change.

Maybe the pain is just an issusion anyway. If no one else feels it...does it really exist?

I'm not trying to negate your feelings I'm saying everyone lives within themselves, reacting from their own original sin, existing to release their own demons and play their own games. Don't sucumb to the game twinks. So much more is outside of that box and you have a great chance to find it all. Don't do anything without getting all of it!!!

I existed in a cloudy mind for many years myself. Now, I do my best to think clearly and at times there is difficulty. But twinks, it's only about me now. Never again will I have a love relationship with some one who wants it one way. My whole mind screams so loud if this begins...I fear it myself. But, it's me scream,ing, it's me reminding myself "I'M HERE...DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN!"

I hear you way too loud and clear twinks. That's why I listen to you, talk with you, share with you.

I'm ok if your ok.

November 26, 2004
2:20 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

On 23-Nov-04 you said:

"I don't do the right thing all the time but I really hate confrontation. ... ... My way works for me and frankly, I really like Tez and Cactus. Now, I hope I did not alienate either one."

Confrontation?? I must have missed something. But then I don't thoroughly read all the postings on every threads.

I cannot speak for Cactus, but you certainly haven't alienated me, I assure you.

November 27, 2004
6:46 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

twinks, you are misreading me. I am not talking about the biblical version of original sin. I am talking about what I believe those writers of the bible may have meant. Everyone is born into a specific set of circumstances. They are molded and grown accpording to these surroundings and people. This is what I feel is our original sin.. Of course, we do not have to give sin the negative connotation commonly used. To sin is to experience life differently. So, each of us has things to deal with right away, hence original sin.

My theory but hey, I like it!!

Tez, Thank you. I am happy that we may still communicate. I am not about alienating anyone. Especially someone who has been a big help to me in these threads. Glad to know you are still paying attention.

November 29, 2004
9:50 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez, I find it absolutely heartening when you offer a message like the one from rdecker. Funny to me as well that not many pay it any mind because they may be forced to think outside of their comnfortable realm.

I am thinking outside of my comfortable realm today Tez because it doesn't feel very comfortable. I started dating about 7 weeks ago and lo and behold it became an exclusive process. We had an argument this past weekend because I felt he hads made a degrading remark about women. I hate this type of thing because it is a common tactic with any significant other I've had to put themselves in a position over me. Showing they are better. My first angry thought turned to, let me try to communicate my meaning. He just became defensive and angry.

I've tried to examine my language and visual cues. I think, as best I know how, I did not use a defensive stance. What I am thinking now though is, I am choosing another from te same cloth.

I just can't figure it out and maybe letting it go for now would be better. I'm not sure I want to see this guy again but eventually, do I give in to negative narcissistic behavior? Is there such a thing as a positive N? I am beginning to think we all display some of these qualities it just depends to what exent.

Tez, what do you think? I am sorry for asking just you but, I relate to your answers and understanding. And that's another thing, why do I always feel I should apologise for evrything? I want to have high self=esteem!!!! I want to be as confident as I try to show I am but don't always feel.

November 29, 2004
10:40 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

and to top it all off...I'm friggin crying over this!!

Then I ask myself, is it because you hate to feel someone else has the upper hand?

God, get me back to counseling and fast!

November 30, 2004
2:29 am
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi workinonit, I can relate to "not wanting someone to have the upper hand", especially if I did not feel they respected me or were abusive. Then I had to learn that there were people out there who had the upper hand and they were people I respected, so then, it did not bother me. I guess recognizing the difference is important. If your friend was teasing...don't throw it away so quickly if it has potentialto be a good relationship.

I have trouble with some "authority figures" like my boss who is very passive aggressive and I can see straight through him, but I don't know how to be assertive enough to say what I thik wihtout jeopardizing my job, so I don't say anything! Then I stay angry at myself, or upset about something that happened. But I know what you mean, I understand that term completely. What else do you think about it?

November 30, 2004
6:15 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Workinonit.

About my response to RDecker, you wrote:

"... Funny to me as well that not many pay it any mind because they may be forced to think outside of their comnfortable realm."

Yes you are probably right. I don't mind if I get little or no response.

I see my sharing as a gift that can be received or rejected. Either way I am happy. You see, I realize that we all can only receive according to how much we already have. Christ said something to the effect: "To them who have much, more will be given. To those who have little, even that will be taken away". A long time ago, when I was a gungho practicing Christian, this new testament statement worried the hell out of me. I thought that it was grossly unfair. Now I see what Christ meant. We can all only grasp and make use of that which we can understand, the rest goes over our heads. For those with closed minds even the little understanding and insights that they have will soon become distorted as life goes on and fearful events happen to them. Breaking this downward spiral is not easy. A rock bottom crash is often necessary to produce a paradigm shift in thinking that is required to begin the upward spiral. I'm not inferring that RDecker fits this category of person - or any one else here for that matter. I am only making a general statement about how I view things in this regard. Since I don't know where 'anyone is at' I just give what I can and let go of the outcomes. Oftentimes my gifts are ungratefully rejected. My grandchildren are living testimony to this truth!!! šŸ™‚

And after talking about narcisism in relation to your man friend, you said:

"Tez, what do you think? I am sorry for asking just you but, I relate to your answers and understanding."

I understand that generally speaking again, men seek to 'fix things'and women 'seek support'. In this instance, I'll asume that you are seeking to 'fix things'.

Firstly, my advice is to be careful about categorizing people into rigid personality types; it can lead to very incorrect assumptions. For a recent example of what I mean here, see Twinks 'diagnosis' of me. As for my being 'a narcissist', her diagnosis was so far off the mark that I saw no point in even starting to refute it.

A good starting point with your relationship with your bf is to realize that both you and he are seeking to have emotional and sexual needs met. Sometimes the two needs are so inextricably entertwined that it is hard to differentiate between them.

To get these needs met we 'play games' either consciously or unconsciously. We learn the rules of these games in childhood in our interactions with our parents and other people who are crucial for our physical and emotional support. Often times we and our partners get frustrated because we are playing the 'relationship game' by different sets of rules and we sometimes don't even know it. Thus when we 'give' and then don't 'get' back what we seek, we become disenchanted and withdraw support for our partner. Then the partner reacts. Then we react to his or her reaction and so the downward spiral in the relationship starts.

If we want to be in a good relationship, we firstly must know ourselves and what is driving us, what our needs are and if it is realistic to expect our partner to meet these needs. This is a big ask and sometimes takes many years to gain the insights and realizations required. Some people go to their graves never knowing very much about who they are.

Reflecting upon the self in depth, contemplating the nature of feelings and their interactions with thoughts and their underpinning beliefs combined with meditation are a powerful 'growth hormones'.

And you said:

" And that's another thing, why do I always feel I should apologise for evrything?"

It may help to look at this behavior and ask yourself what is the needs based 'payoff' that you seek? This is a good start as the focus for the reflecting, contemplating and meditating mentione above.

And you said:

"I want to have high self=esteem!!!!"

Going past the obvious answer, why is it that you want to value yourself highly, do you think? How would a high self-esteem change your life for the better? Your in depth answer to this question, will be a pointer to the needs of which I spoke above.

"I want to be as confident as I try to show I am but don't always feel."

Again it may be helpful to look closely at what you anticipate this will do for you and what need is driving this desire.

PS I'm not trying to "bend your mind". If I can be of some help it is good, if not then at least I have had good intentions in trying to do so.

Intentions are all important, for it is my past intentions that have set up the filters for how I see the world now; my present intentions likewise further modifying my filters for my future views of 'my reality'. So as I sow so shall I reap - what goes around comes around, the law of Karma(Kamma).

November 30, 2004
8:29 pm
Avatar
workinonit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,

You've given me just the kind of 'do something' about it answer I needed. My problems with self help are, do not tell me what I am, give me the tools to help myself. This reason is why I ask you for help and I believed you would do just this!!!

I know what you've suggested is personal and I will reflect on these areas. Recently, I have actually started looking for the cues I have set since childhood that cause certain emotional chain reactions. Finding the 'I'm sorry' one is difficult. You know, I didn't do this for so long! It was a habit I thought was behind me and with this guy....it was right up front!!! I almost could not stop myself. Now what the hell!!

Ok, I will respond again. Thanks Tez.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
46
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110924
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38537
Posts: 714209
Newest Members:
delight1080, laticia1, Corties, patrickstayes, kevinkovalsky, izzy39
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer