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Ask or share anything about the Bible here! continued...
February 15, 2006
1:48 pm
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Anonymous
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Hi Cloudy,

Welcome

That is a great question.

Let me research the appropriate scriptures and get back to you soon, assuming someone else on this thread has not already done so.

February 15, 2006
1:58 pm
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Gup,

No pressure friend, but I'm certain you have much to contribute.

February 15, 2006
5:19 pm
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Cloudy,

I think it's super important that believers network about things that seem difficult to comprehend. Thanks again for your question.

You're Baptist! My southern mother was a devoutly Baptist believer. It drove her CRAZY when I decided to join a non-denominational church… “What about you roots?” she said lol. Dropping my label started as a way to rebel, I admit, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense to me that no matter what our denominations, we were both Christians.

Furthermore, I really didn’t like the way the labels kept us (and still keeps many of us, sometimes) bickering about the insignificant details while important work for the Kingdom remained undone.

She used to say to me, "You don't believe fat meat is greasy." Which means that I usually don't believe something until it explodes in my face...Well, on the Day of Judgment, when I behold his face, I don’t expect Him to send me to one section of heaven where the non-denominationalist hang-out and my mother to another side where the Baptist are…but if HE does…I’ve got a big, “I told you so” coming from her lol.

Ok, back to the subject at hand…

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 “If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or he dies, then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the lord. Do not bring sin upon the land of the Lord your God is giving you an inheritance. NIV

I see your point about marriage in this phase of Deuteronomy. I think in this case all four verses have to be read together to understand the point of the passage. The restriction at the end was more about preventing casual re-marriag after a divorce than encouraging divorce. My study Bible says that this law was actually designed to make the Israelites think twice before divorce.

Luckily, we are don’t have to guess or take a third party opinoin on this subject because our ultimate example –Jesus- was asked a very similar question while he walked the earth.

Here’s what he had to say:

Matthew 19:7-9 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” (They were referring to Deuteronomy 24). Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.

By “…it was not this way from the beginning” Jesus was referring to scriptures that he later quoted on marriage to reflect God design. He says that marriage was ordained from the beginning, to bring man and woman, which he created together in a life long union, as one flesh, so that they wouldn’t be alone, but fruitful and multiplied.

I'm not 100% sure what unclean means in this context. Many things and people had the potential to make one unclean (which could lead to sickness and death) in that day of limited understanding of medicine and health.

February 15, 2006
11:13 pm
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cloudy...also important to keep in mind that when Jesus Christ came these so-called "laws" of the Old Testament changed. I think God frowns upon divorce, but he also frowns upon people treating each other badly and abusive relaitonships. but i think if we seek God in all things and be obedient through the power of his Holy Spirit...we will make better choices in all areas of our lives.

Hey all....maybe when we get around to it...Romans Chapter 9 is confusing to me...any thoughts?

February 16, 2006
11:47 am
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Hi OMW,

I will read the scriptures and touch base with you as soon as possible, if someone hasn't already done so.

February 16, 2006
12:00 pm
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2/16 Today’s Devotional: Fruit of the Spirit Continued…

What are the Fruit of the Spirit?

Fruit of the Spirit are virtues which grow and develop within the lives of believers. We become eligible for this fruit after accepting salvation through Christ and joining our lives to his. When we submit to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, this Fruit-which has also been called the nature Christ-begins to develop in us.
Today, let’s define and examine the next two fruit.

Peace- Isaiah 26:3 You will keep in perfect peace, him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you. Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Concordance definition: peace as state of calm; freedom from strife or discord; harmony in personal relationships.

Patience- Proverbs 14:29 A patient man has great understanding, but a quick-tempered man displays folly. Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Concordance definition: Endurance and hopeful.

The race, is not given, to the swift nor to the strong, but to those, that endure until the end. There will be problems, yes…and some times, you will feel as if you’re walking alone…but we know, that we know, that all things work out for the good of those who love him.

I can’t remember if these are lyrics from an old hymn or a poem, but they stand out in my mind as powerful truth.

February 16, 2006
1:43 pm
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Young & Restless

Thanks for taking so much of your time doing the devotionals.

I have read through them all.

Have been very busy at work and replying to devotionals takes more time than other threads.

The race, is not given, to the swift nor to the strong, but to those, that endure until the end.

Thanks again

Garfield

February 16, 2006
2:55 pm
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Garfield,

Responses can be time consuming, yes.

Thank you so much for letting me know that you're reading. I really appreciate that.

May God bless and keep you friend.

February 16, 2006
11:02 pm
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Hi OMW,

Is there a specific theme or verse in Romans 9 that you'd like to discuss?

After sitting down with my Bible, I realized that I don't fully understand what to search for.

Can you give me more info about what puzzles you in this chapter?

February 16, 2006
11:11 pm
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Hi all:

Y&R you are doin a most excellent job. I am enjoying reading your devotionals. They do provoke quit a bit of thought.

I am quite behind, but I wanted to add to the discussion on marriage and divorce if I may. Cloudy, I hope this will maybe answer some of the questions you have.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:10-17

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say this (I, not Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified thru her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.

Helpless But Not Hopeless

Deuteronomy 24:1-4

God desires marriages to stay together. Because sin has infected all relationships, however, some marriages go not survive. Moses' commands regarding divorce were given in a culture where a man could divorce his wife verbally and leave her with no property or rights.

These commandments regulating divorce in Israel protected those left most helpless-the woman and her children. The Bible does not give people an easy way out of .their commitments. People are expected to honor their commitments; Jesus later made it clear that Moses’ words were not to be taken as promoting easy divorce. Divorce should be the exception; not the rule.

DIVORCE DIFFICULTIES

Matthew 19:3-8

The Pharisees' question was meant to test Jesus' commitment to Moses' law: "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" they asked.

Jesus’ response emphasized that God has always intended each married couple, one man and one woman, to remain married for life. (Gen. 2:24). Moses had .indeed permitted
divorce (Deut.24: I) but only because of the "hardness" of human hearts. Jesus knew that
the option for divorce was included in Moses' law because of sinful human nature, but He still defended the importance of permanence in marriage.

In this passage we learn that divorce is permissible; but it is not commanded. Marriage
vows should not be taken lightly. God would have couples do their best---with His help--- to keep their marriage intact. If a divorce occurs, God's compassionate love can heal even the deepest wounds.

February 17, 2006
11:02 am
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Ok, I'm not finished. lol

What does it mean if he hath found some uncleanness in her?

The Matthew Henry Commentary says regarding verses 1-4 of Deuteronomy 24 that...This is that permission which the Pharisees erroneously referred to as a precept, "Matthew 19:7, Moses commandeed that a man give a certificate of divorce." It was not so; our Saviour told them that he only allowed it lest, if they had not had liberty to divorce their wives, they would have ruled them abusively, and, it may be, have been the death of them. It is probable that divorces were known before (they are taken for granted, Lev. 21:14), and Moses thought it necessary here to give some rules concerning them.

point 1... That a man might not divorce his wife unless he "found something indecent about her, verse 1". It was not sufficient to say that he did not like her, or that he liked another better, but he must show cause for his dislike.

point 2... That is must be done, not by word of mouth, for that might be spoken hastily, but by writing, and that put in proper form, and solemnly declared, before witnesses to be his own act and deed, which was a work of time, and left room for consideration, that it might not be done rashly.

point 3... The the husband must put it in the hand of his wife, and send her away, which some think obliged him to endow her.

point 4... That being divorced it was lawful for her to marry another husband, verse 2. The divorce had dissolved the bond of marriage as effectively as death could dissolve it; so that she was free to marry again as if her first husband had been naturally dead.

point 5... That if her second husband died, or divorced her, then still she might marry a third, but her first husband should never take her again (verses 3, 4). The Jewish writers say that this was to prevent a most vile and wicked practice which the Egyptians had of changing wives.

The Hebrew definition of uncleanness in this verse is defined as literally - nudity; and figuratively - disgrace, blemish as in nakedness, shame, uncleanness.

February 17, 2006
11:35 am
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2/17 Today’s Devotional: Fruit of the Spirit Continued…

Today, let’s define and examine the next two fruit.

Kindness- 2 Samuel 23:50-51 Therefore I will praise you, O LORD, among the nations; I will sing praises to your name. He gives his king great victories; he shows unfailing kindness to his anointed, to David and his descendants forever. Concordance Definition: showing sympathy and understanding, benevolent, gentle; favorable disposition.

Goodness- Matthew 11:29 (The words of Jesus) Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Titus 3:3-7 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. Concordance Definition: kind, mind-mannered.

When I consider the Goodness and the vastness of GOD, all that God has done, all the marvelous attractions that his hands have made, flowers and birds and oceans and mountains...

Truly God IS an awesome wonder!

You are an awesome wonder,
No other power compares to you.
You're perfect in all your ways
Everyday, faithful, ever true.
Oceans applaud you, creation, declares you're grandeur.
Hear in your splendor, we surrender, to the wonder, of your power.

With just one thought, you made Heaven and earth. You knew my name before my birth. You know what lies in store for me, you designed my destiny. And, we come before you now, in your presence we will bow, as we submit ourselves to thee...
And to your awesome diety.

You said let there be...
Then darkness turned to light,
Even death bows in your might.
Kings and queens, submit the THEE... and they proclaim YOUR majesty.

YOU reach down, and took clay in your hands...
then you fashioned it to man.
We stand in awe, of what you've done
Oh God! The awesome one.

You are an awesome wonder,
No other power compares to you.
You're perfect in all your ways
Everyday, faithful, ever true.
Oceans applaud you, creation, declares you're grandeur.
Hear in your splendor, we surrender, to the wonders, of your power.

Lyrics from Kurt Carr's Awesome Wonder.

February 17, 2006
12:23 pm
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Young & Restless

Thanks for the devotional for today.
It made me think......
Question for you

Look at Genesis 1 verse 5

and then look at Genesis 1 verse 14

I do not have a English bible. Sold out.

Garfield

February 17, 2006
1:44 pm
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Garfield:

http://www.ibs.org

or

biblegateway.com

both are good sites for looking up things and also to just read. The ibs site is international bible society and they have NIV translations. The biblegateway has like 35 languages and and 50 versions.

just an fyi. 🙂

February 17, 2006
5:16 pm
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Hi Garfied,

Hope you're having a great day.

Here are the scriptures you refer to in Genesis.

I decided to post them for our convenience. Did you want to share or inquire about these Scriptures?

Genesis 1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,

February 17, 2006
5:19 pm
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Hi MamaC,

Glad to see you jumping right in and taking a part of things.

I think this thread works best when we do that.

Have you had a chance to look over Today's Devotional? If so, does the subject inspire any ideas or conversation?

February 17, 2006
5:23 pm
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Seek,

If you're reading, no pressure...

But I want you to know that I TOTALLY miss you!!!

Blessings and warm wishes to you.

February 17, 2006
9:04 pm
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Y&R:

No, not yet. Have all the kids today and I think this is the first day this week I have not been stuck or hammered, etc. I apologize for not keeping up well this week. I will post about it tomorrow am if not later tonight.

I feel the thread is goin very welll. You have picked subjects that mean alot to me. Thanks.

Howdy to Garfield, Cloudy, OMW and anyone else takin a peek. Good material here, come on in and join in.

February 18, 2006
12:22 am
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Y & R

Thanks

Genesis 1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

For me the light here means understanding that has been created.
If somebody does not see why they have to say serve God then they are in darkness.
Garfield

February 18, 2006
11:02 am
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No pressure Mamac, I was mostly curious so I decided to ask.

Garfield,

Thanks for sharing your insight.

Yours is an interesting interpretation of that scripture.

Think I understand what you mean when you say you see the Bible as a spiritual book.

You're really on to something because Jesus himself describes being lost in sin as (spiritual)blindness several times. He also refers to himself (and knowledge of him) as the way, the truth and the LIGHT.

I appreciate your interpretation as another dimension of the text, but I see the Bible as a literal word(s) of God. I beleive Genesis to be the actual Chronicles the foundation of the worlds.

Among the most fascinating things to corroborate this belief, is the testament of scientist who have examined the complexity of the worlds, and oursleves and come to the conclusion that our world has a certain rhythm to it which can not be ignored...and it was made to accommodate the arrival of our species; the belief that our world had a designer. And, I believe that Genesis tells us who it was.

February 18, 2006
11:07 am
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2/18 Today’s Devotional-Fruit of the Spirit Continued…

Faithfulness – Psalms 117:2 For great is his love toward us, and the faithfulness of the LORD endures forever. Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures through all generations. Psalms 145:13 The LORD is faithful to all his promises and loving toward all he has made Praise the LORD. Concordance Definition: Firm in adherence’ loyal; worthy of trust; devotion.

Gentleness – Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, Concordance Definition: Kind, mild-mannered
You should know me by now

*I've always been straight with you.*

I've always tried to sing about the truth the way I see it,
In a mixed up world where truth is
hard to find.

I ain't no spiritual superman.
Don't always give a shiny, bright example of what a believer ought to be.

I ain't never parted the ocean, though I really think I could,
if I had the faith of a mustard seed, like the Bible says I should.
I ain't never moved a mountain, I ain't never felt that need.
But the one thing God has taught me to see...

I can have faith, A mountain of hope
I can even speak with tongues of angels, Tell you everything I know
But it doesn't mean a thing in this world...Without a mighty love

I can be strong, I can stand tall,
I can point squarely at the mountain
And command that it be gone...But it doesn't mean a thing in this world
Without a mighty love

I ain't standing on no mount.

And, I'm not trying to preach to you. OR tell you that I've found all the easy answers, when half the time I can't even find my keys...
But I feel like a regular Billy Graham, when I start talkin' bout my Jesus, and all that he's done for me.

Don't you know that I've received forgiveness through no
effort of my own.

I've been given so much mercy, so I'll be the last to throw a stone.

And I apologize, if you think that I'm coming on too strong.
But there's just one thing I want you to know...

I can have faith
I can stand strong
I can point squarely at the mountan…and command that it be gone.
But it doesn't mean a thing in this world, Without a mighty love

Bob Carlisle’s Mighty Love Lyrics

February 18, 2006
12:09 pm
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mamac

Thanks for the links.

Garfield

Y & R

Thanks for todays devotionals

February 19, 2006
10:16 am
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Y&R,

How have you been? I've missed you, too. I'm checking in today, and will check in again from time to time.

You're doing great on your devotionals. It's Rasputin's turn for next week. Ras, are you ready to roll?

Seek

February 19, 2006
10:42 am
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on my way,

Hi. I hope you're doing well.

I have some thoughts for you on Romans chapter 9.

Firstly, would it help to know you're in good company when you find this chapter hard to understand? The apostle Peter wrote "As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood ..." (2 Peter 3:16). So Peter also apparently couldn't always understand what Paul wrote.

In Matt 21:43, Jesus said, "Therefore say I unto you [Pharisees], The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

In Ephesians 3:3 and 6, Paul wrote, "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; ...

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel"

Romans chapter 9 talks of the same thing: the kingdom of God being taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. Paul laments for the Jews here. When I read Romans 9 with this thought in mind, it makes sense to me.

As you know, God made a covenant with Abraham, which he renewed with Jacob and the tribes of Israel. When the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, the Gentiles were adopted into this covenant, and the Jews lost the keys of the kingdom. The Jews are still a covenant people, however.

Later, in Romans 11:20-21, Paul cautions the Gentiles, "Well, because of unbelief they [the Jews] were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches [again, the Jews] take heed lest he also spare not thee."

So us Gentiles must beware lest we fall away as the Jews did. God is no respector of persons.

(Sorry, I got into some of my own preaching here.)

Please, let me know what you think. Does it seem to make sense to you?

Seeker

February 19, 2006
10:52 am
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Just to lighten things up a bit ...

Who says we're not a Christian nation? There's a scripture I've seen posted on many houses, even on those of people who are agnostic, non-Christian, and/or antagonistic to Christianity.

Check out the first three words of Phillipians 3:2, in the King James Version, and you'll see what I mean.

Seeker

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