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Are most truly sexy women unfaithful?
December 7, 2005
5:23 pm
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gazelle
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Tez, what do you mean by: " genuine celibacy, as opposed to self-imposed voluntary absense of sex" ???

December 7, 2005
7:05 pm
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Gazelle.

Catholicism has a rule that their priests and nuns must be celibate.

Masturbation is not celibacy. Celibacy is not about not 'spilling sperm' in my view. It is a bit hard for women to 'spill sperm' alone anyway unless she works in a Sperm Donors Bank. 🙂

But on another level neither is genuine celibacy about completely going without sex as a part of a bargaining process with some God. That is not genuine celibacy in my view. That is just abstinence from sex in order that I please some God. catholic Nuns, Brides of Christ, see their having sex as adulterous, as cuckolding Christ, their husband.

Or on a more pragmatic level, going without sex to avoid the conflict in commitments that such a relationship can cause in religious life is not a genuine spititual reason to be celibate either in my opinion.

In my view genuine celibacy is based upon the inherent personal benefits received. I never realized the depths of these benefits until I "busted".

I was in India living in a 'spiritual university'. When I returned to Australia, I became very ill with Delhi Belly. In a fever state, I lifted out of my body and reached the ceiling when I suddenly snapped back into my body. I got one hell of a fright. Today I believe that I experienced a classical OBE. My fever broke and fear driven, I seccumbed to the advances of my sex starved wife at the time. I don't blame her one iota. She was never a 'convert'. She just went along with what I wanted. When I lost what I thought was my 'Royal Union with God' and wanted comfort, the one eyed trouser snake stood up to be counted and well ... the rest is history. No wonder the snake is used as a metaphor for the devil. 🙂

The abrupt change that this "bust" brought in my life was staggering. For me becoming celibate was a slow process, despite the immediate cessation of all sexual intercourse and masturbation. However the reverse was an immediate transformation. It was a hell of a come down.

I am still amazed at how pervasive sexuality is in all of our lives. It is such an unconscious driving and manipulating force that it is only really noticeable in the immediacy of a before/after a "bust" experiences such as mine mentioned above.

When a sexually active man meets a sexually woman tensions are always present albeit mostly unconscious. When a truly celibate man meets a sexually active woman, such tensions are non-existent. The rapport that develops within seconds in such instances is usually beautiful to experience. Unconsciously the woman seems to realize that there is no hidden agenda, nothing to fear, no manipulation, just honest to goodness truthful up front interchanges. There is an inherent attractiveness about genuinely celibate people that seems to radiate from them.

I'm not saying sex is bad or sinful outside of procreational intent or outside of marriage, as some people believe. Sex is not bad, I love it. But it has a price tag.

Sexually active people invariably suffer from heightened levels of 'body consciousness' without realizing it. The continual pull on the mind down to this ego of the 'I-consciousness' or 'self-centredness' makes 'transcendence' in meditation more difficult.

Genuine love of celibacy in my view springs from the joy of living that results from the 'letting go' of 'selfhood' that celibacy facilitates.

Celibacy for the wrong reasons becomes a terrible 'cross to bear' and an even greater pull towards 'self-centredness' not 'selflessness'. By selflessness I don't mean trying to score body points with some god in the sky by giving to others and therein depriving the self. By selflessness, I mean letting go of the continual 'ego boundary maintenance' in which the self centred mind constantly participates. The mind is freed of self-concerns to expand to encompass all. I am a very gregarious and popular person when in such a state of mind. I can switch into a very morose, belligerent, unlikable person when the boundaries of selfhood close all 'other' out.

Can you see how I am diferentiating genuine from non-genuine celibacy? It is all in the intent behind the celibacy (or so I believe).

Phew!!! Does that answer your question to your satisfaction?

December 7, 2005
7:22 pm
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Gazelle

According to my Oxford dictionary celibacy means: unmarried state.

However, many married yogis claim to live in celibate lives. I think the meaning of the word by common usage has become considerably more narrow to encompass the deeper spiritual meaning I mentioned above.

I don't think too many priests and nuns would not see masturbation as breaking their vows of celibacy. But I could be wrong. I am willing to listen to the views of any priests and nuns amongst you posters.

However, from a purists perspective, I stand corrected.

December 9, 2005
7:58 pm
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Tez

On 7 December you said:

"Yes ... I think all men have psychological, visual, auditory, olfactory, tactile 'templates' that they unconsciously compare to the sensory data that they receive and augment in their brains. If there is a template/incoming image match then its ... butterylies in the guts ant stars in the eyes. Orgasms happen in the head."

From this rationale, I would think that the friend you described long ago in the very first entry has a "sexy woman template disorder" that stems from the deep grief of losing his wife....

And getting back to your original question "Are most truly sexy women unfaithful?"

I suppose it depends on the matching personality template that gives one stars in their eyes and butterflies in their stomach...and her being faithful or not has nothing whatever to do with what she looks like.

December 11, 2005
5:23 pm
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Scrumptious
On the 9-Dec-05 you said:

"From this rationale, I would think that the friend you described long ago in the very first entry has a "sexy woman template disorder" that stems from the deep grief of losing his wife.... "

You could very well have hit the nail on the head. You might be right.

I'm not sure that he would agree that he had a 'disorder'. I cannot ask him now. We have had a 'falling out' and our relationship is on a purely business basis now. Honesy is not one of his strong points, I'm afraid.

And you further said:

"I suppose it depends on the matching personality template that gives one stars in their eyes and butterflies in their stomach...and her being faithful or not has nothing whatever to do with what she looks like."

Yes ... this is my belief also.

If the 'template' formed in a son by having had a deceitful, dishonest, unfaithful superficial mother, then, in my opinion, this son would probably unconsciously be attracted to this kind of woman. Thus in his experience all women that he found attractive and with whom he formed a relationship would tend to be of the superficial,unfaithful kind.

In my friend's experience, his wife appears to have been very faithful. I have no idea about his mother. I don't know what his 'template' is like. All the women that he has had - and he has had many that he considers beautiful - seemed to my knowledge to have been faithful to him.

He has an above average aversion to unfaithful women. Perhaps he simply focuses on beautiful women who are unfaithful, neglecting to even notice the rest. This behavior is called overgeneralization in the psych world.

December 11, 2005
9:22 pm
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hey Tez, good to see you buddy!!
Maybe I can pitch in too. I dont have much experience, but this wonderful sexy woman came into my life a month ago, put her leg on top of mine, peered down my chest and told me woman love mating strangers with a certain chemical opposite to that found in their "regular" man, when they're in their periods. This happened in the first few days we met. Sadly I didnt capitalize on this 'oppurtunity' and let it slip away. I think she wanted to have sex, I mean why else would she do all that with me. She's extremely beautiful and a wonderful person as well. The other day, I caught her giving flirty glances to this other guy in a business meeting. She meets him on and off for business. All that gave me a lot of pain because she came so close to me and I thought she loved me and she did, but not now because I'm not strong enough for her. My low-self esteem kicked in from the start and the relationship has been hurtling downhill at 90MPH. Anyway.. she was a very beautiful sexy woman and I felt she was unfaithful. Also, she told me her ex thought she was too "wild" for him. So there you go..! Although I have yet to ask her, what did he mean by that and how was she "wild"? I'm still heartbroken, I want her so much. I thought we'd make a great couple. I've not made any sexual advances, I want her to know I love her beyond lust- but she wants a strong confident positive man and I'm still learning to be one. I probably cant have her now (still cant accept it though) but I wish I could. Its tearing me up and putting me in anxiety and panic attacks. Sigh.

December 11, 2005
9:24 pm
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By the way, that other guy she was giving flirty glances to is married!!! And was sitting next to her soon-to-be ex. "too wild" ..... ch ch..tsk tsk. Will I ever meet someone like her again (but just maybe more faithful) and be ready for her? I hope so!!!

December 11, 2005
9:38 pm
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I'm sorry, my impulsive texts, I wish I could add to my prevoius posts but I remember more things: She has ADD and depression and smokes. She just follows her heart, and thats what unfaithful women would do? She was with her guy at that time, she even told me that it was strange to kiss him (he'd ejac when they kissed). Ok so thats happening and at the same time she's coming to me, sleeping on my bed and cuddling together and all that (it just kills me now to think it wont happen again). Or maybe she thought I was too hot, I have no idea. So basically, she's a woman who acts on her heart. If she's married, her hubby would never like her acting on her heart with other men. Maybe she'll be faithful once she's married.

December 13, 2005
6:22 pm
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Hello, matey. It's good to hear from you again.

What can I say about your experience?

If I were in your shoes, my response would be to run a mile away from her and maintain the distance.

The problem for me is that my inner 'perfect woman' template is that of an unfaithful, deceitful, dishonest, highly flirtatious, flighty, unstable, highly neurotic, vindictive, short, pretty, pert nosed, blonde, blue-eyed, modest to small breasted, sadistic, seemingly vulnerable woman.

I assure you that this is not my 'free choice' in templates. It is the one into which I was conditioned as an infant and later in childhood. It is also a good description of my mother as I perceived her to be then and even in as I did in later life!!!

Even on her death bed my mother blamed my father irrationally for not fulfilling her life's neurotic fantasies and even for her imminent death. She pushed his comforting hand away as hard as she could with the last remaining energy that she had, grimacing at him as she did so to the end. Yet my father was a good, honest, upright man. His main weakness was that he had no insight whatsoever into either himself, my mother's neurosies or into the human condition in general. He was a very 'closed off' man.

Thus the three great 'loves' of my life, if I can so loosely use that word 'love', were of the nature of my mother described above. All brought me great pain. I was the one who broke it of with all three of them eventually.

The last one though living with a guy now, still hovers around me trying to catch my eye, despite my 'brickwall' that I have built between her and I, that keeps us completely incommunicardo. The black looks that I keep getting from her and the third person carried 'love' messages that I keep disregarding, tells me she still craves having her ideal victim.

To the best of my knowledge, I am the only guy who has given this woman the arse. She can't bear the rejection. I suspect that I am her strong template match to boot and my total rejection of her, just as her mother and father did to her, has only made the match a better fit.

It is my belief that we all have an 'ideal' partner template programmed into us in childhood; a template that is a complete multidimensional, hybrid image of our primary caregiver(s). I don't think women are different in this regard either. However I suspect that their fathers play a more prominant part because of their gender opposites.

In my view, those of us who had dysfunctional mothers and fathers, are cursed with 'defective templates'. Thus we are irrationally drawn to toxic women(or men if we are women or homos) who lead us a merry chase. We suffer abominably yet come back for more. Our only hope is to clearly see how our minds set us up and how to use that same mind to avoid its own 'traps'.

The trap is set within not without. These poor unfortunate women are as much a victim of their own neuroses as we are of them. However, we don't have to be victims. Knowledge, a strong will and determination not to play the push-pull game can free us.

The great illusion that somehow, someday, somewhere, we can find a template match that isn't a match, yet still attracts us as though she were!!! This is insanity extraordinaire!!!!!!!

It's like hoping for a drink of cyanide that tastes like cyanide, feels like cyanide, looks like cyanide, behaves like cyanide, smells like cyanide that will not kill us instantly but will make us feel like winning a million dollars would. Hmmmm!!

Break the spell mate. Run a mile now!!!!!!!!!!!

I do hope the above helps you to avoid much 'up and coming' pain, matey!! But I doubt that it will. You're situation is different or so you probably think.

Don't be fooled by your inner voice that says: "But with her and I, it will be different. My love for her will make it work once she knows me. I will work so hard to make her love me. I know that in time she will. She will then change her ways". Huhhh!!

That kind of inner self-deceiving, self-talk is all BULLSHIT matey!!

Don't play that deadly, neurotic game of push-pull with her unless you are a dedicated masochist and love reliving the emotional pain that you undoubtedly experienced in your childhood.

PS. I don't think that all beautiful women are unfaithful by a long chalk. Many are very well adjusted beautiful people inside as well as without.

Unfortunately, there are also many beautiful women, who because of the constant praise in childhood from men, have become accustomed to estimating their own worth as a human being(self-esteem) based on their looks alone.

Since no value has been placed upon anything else in such women's childhood, they cling to this one physical attribute of outer beauty. Thus they come to see men as shallow and then hate them for it, yet exploit men for their own self-esteem raising gratification.

Therefore they flit from man to man trying to satisfy their insatiable appetite for adoration. They are trying to fill a void that can never be filled in such a shallow way.

Love them but leave them if you must do so(I don't advise it). Don't fall for the illusion that you can 'save' them. That would be a humungous ego trap of your own making. Hmmmmm! Been there, done that to my grevious error and subsequent excruciating pain.

December 14, 2005
9:41 am
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Tez, I can manage being distanced from her when I'm in a good mood (which means high self-esteem). This mood lasted from 5am last morning to 7 am and now I've slided down a bit. I'm sleepy too, maybe thats why, hmm. I've been losing sleep since I met her. Every morning I wake up at 3am thinking about her and cant stop. Maybe I'll be better once I'm over this issue. Sooner or later she'll ask me out for lunch or maybe come over and I'll try to be calm and distanced. I want to use our next time to ask her these issues and ask her why she sort of flirts with these people and why her ex said she was wild. If I'm going to distance myself from her, I might as well get some answers from her. Sorry to hear your mom and dad were like what you said. Its amazing how you're so different and more aware as compared to them.

>> Break the spell mate. Run a mile now!!!!!!!!!!! < < :)). I might, I should infact but she's too beautiful. I cant do it! Not in my weak moods (like right now). Also.. I want to ask her hard questions and getting those answers about her flirting. How about, me and her get together and do some passionate love making before calling it a day? (before ladies jump on me, please read what I wrote before: she tried to do it with me in the first place ). That way atleast I can have some fun and if she still flirts or goes to other men for attention, I'll quit. That though will require me to have high self-esteem or atleast force myself to be calm. Its going to be tough, I can see. I have to focus to remain calm and ask her those questions as gently as I can and see if she's telling the truth. By the way another woman in the office has a crush on me. I will tell girl 1 about this. Lets see her reaction.

December 14, 2005
10:05 am
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Are you very young & inexperienced, Guest? It seems to me that your main drive in all this is sexual yearning, rather than Love as such (which, for me at least, includes huge amounts of respect, admiration, Closeness, emotional & mental intimacy, mutual support and compassion besides passion!)

I'm not criticising you at all - not even suggesting that natural desires are 'wrong' in any way ... just trying to get a perspective on your motives and the nature of your intensity, in case it helps your honest self-understanding too.

Blessings of inner peace & happiness to you - gazelle.

December 14, 2005
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I've told myself that if all that happened was this girl to be faithful to be and just let me hold her hand for the rest of my life and for us to be in love mutually, I'd be happy. Does that answer your question, besides the fact that my eyes were wet from emotion when I was writing this. I do love her. I'm not that young but yes unexperienced. I have so much to ask her and want to know so much about her but we never get the time but now I know I have to find out if she can be faithful to me. The hardest thing for me is maintaining my sanity because I like her very much. I know this is an issue for low self-esteem for me which I've been trying to fight for a long time. I'm improving slowly.
On top of this, all the other issues came now like her flirting with other man. I think she might have a ring of 15 men or so and goes around them in round robin fasion, taking off from one and going to the other. I dont know how special I am for her and if her ex (which she loves even now) said she's too wild for me, she might be too wild for me too.. which will be very sad if its true.

December 14, 2005
10:35 am
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typos: 1) faithful to ME, argh, sorry.
2) an issue OF low self-esteem
3) with other MEN

December 14, 2005
11:09 am
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Sorry there were too many errors in my posting. I'm used to typing and editing my posts. Here's the corrected post:

----------------
I've told myself that if all that happened was this girl to be faithful to me and just let me hold her hand for the rest of my life and for us to be in love mutually, I'd be happy. Does that answer your question, besides the fact that my eyes were wet from emotion when I was writing this. I do love her. I'm not that young but yes unexperienced. I have so much to ask her and want to know so much about her but we never get the time but now I know I have to find out if she can be faithful to me. The hardest thing for me is maintaining my sanity because I like her very much. I know this is an issue of low self-esteem for me which I've been trying to fight for a long time. I'm improving slowly. On top of this, all the other issues came now like her flirting with other men. I think she might have a ring of 15 men or so and goes around them in round robin fasion, taking off from one and going to the other. I dont know how special I am for her and if her ex (which she loves even now) said she's too wild for him, she might be too wild for me too.. which will be very sad if its true.

In addition: I dont have low self-esteem all the time. There have been times I was feeling stronger and she loved me totally for that, like 2 weeks ago. We went for lunch and she wanted to meet that later night and we did and she tried to kiss me. If I was that horrible, she wouldnt do that. I'm good, but I might need higher and consistent self-esteem to not be just successful with her but with any woman (if this current situation doesnt work out for me).

December 14, 2005
4:04 pm
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Guest_guest.

It sounds very much like you are on an emotional 'hook', mate.

Watch out - you're in for a rough ride, as she winds the 'long line' in.

From what you tell us, she appears to be 'long line' fishing. Do you know what that entails? - many hooks using a powerful bait with many fish being caught on the one line.

I guess that most of us have to learn from bitter experience. Perhaps you are not the exception.

December 14, 2005
4:34 pm
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oh my gosh, I hope that’s not the case. That’s scary! Powerful example 🙂 you gave "long line fishing", heh. Gosh. I hope to find out soon so I don’t suffer long. I don’t know Tez, sometimes I think she's not sincere, the next I think of all the cuddly dear moments we've had together till now, holding hands, wanting to kiss, nose kissing and back massage, her rubbing my hair, hugging and feeling the immense peace. I do feel if it doesn’t work out, I'll be able to justify and recover fine. For now I'm on the hook and going crazy, yes. Oh my gosh. Today especially I'm very hyper. I hope I am able to gently ask her about her ex saying she's too wild for him and what that meant. Maybe I should ask her what she frankly thinks of me. If she tells me I'm just a friend, I have to draw back and start with this other girl in the office who has a crush on me. After that if she goes crazy over me, she will have to deal with it and I will enjoy that attention (but maybe be sad too). This other girl isn’t as pretty or may not be intelligent, but I think she's still nice and I think might have some advantages over girl 1. Like not smoking, no ADD and depression. That’s a long shot thought.. we haven’t even gone out. Maybe she doesn’t even like me after spending time with me, I will have to find out.
Umm. and then I'll have to go back to girl-hunting. I joined some animal rights protection. I've told myself, if I cannot deal with girl 1, I cannot deal with any because its an issue of self-esteem. Anyway.. lets see if girl 1 calls me today.. I will wait for her call. I'll probably be up again at 3am thinking about her whether or not she calls.. shit. heh.

December 14, 2005
5:56 pm
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Hi, Guest. I've just posted a long message to you on your other thread "What do you think of this girl I've met?" In it, I tried to ascertain how you think & feel about yourself, instead of simply applying labels like "has low self-esteem" or "has ADD", which seem to me to be almost used as easy excuses for being "weak" as you see yourself. I just want to question these assumptions a little.

How do you define "weak"? Do you think that being discerning is weak? Having high standards / expectations? Do you see human loneliness and longing for intimacy as somehow "weak"? Or holding back from being selfishly demanding or over-assertive? Is feeling your feelings "weak", or indulging in daydreams and imaginings?

You see, I personally don't see any of these qualities as "weak" at all. Just human. Just honest. It's just that in society, many people are conditioned to hide these private thoughts & emotions from others. I still don't see why myself. I suppose it's out of fear of being taken advantage of by unscrupulous people who want to hoik themselves up by manipulating others. Now it's those latter types I see as "weak"!

Go easy on yourself! Be as kind to you as you would be to others! Blessings to you - gazelle.

December 14, 2005
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Hi Gazelle, thanks. I'm sorry I started to stray from this thread. I'll respond in that other thread.

December 15, 2005
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Tez, you know, I'm willing to take a risk of getting hurt to finding out we might work out. I have hope, maybe all those things have reasons behind them. If not anything, this is a chance for me to practice being myself. Thats the biggest problem for me right now in life. I will use this chance to learn this even if she ends up being unfaithful and hurting me (worst case). Another worst case is she was alright but I couldnt be myself but in this case atleast I got to practice. The best case is we fall in love deeply and commit to each other sincerely, how nice that would be. I'll keep you updated and will remember your advice!

December 15, 2005
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Remember ... that very few leopards change their spots.

All the best bro. Enjoy the ride! 🙂

December 15, 2005
11:42 pm
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lol thanks Tez. I'm sure the ride will be wild, it has already been, my sleep has been reduced from 9 hours to maybe 4 since the last 2 months. The effects are showing. I'm trying to be strong. I'm telling myself this is a test for myself to be myself. I want to be in control and she's a good case to bring a man out of control eh? Trying to hold the reigns of this wild thing which tests my strength too. Thanks for the advice :)), I will come back here and read it from time to time.

December 16, 2005
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friends I'm sorry to have strayed this thread for this original discussion. Here is Tez's post before what I did:
===================================

Tez
11-Dec-05

Scrumptious On the 9-Dec-05 you said:

"From this rationale, I would think that the friend you described long ago in the very first entry has a "sexy woman template disorder" that stems from the deep grief of losing his wife.... "

You could very well have hit the nail on the head. You might be right.

I'm not sure that he would agree that he had a 'disorder'. I cannot ask him now. We have had a 'falling out' and our relationship is on a purely business basis now. Honesy is not one of his strong points, I'm afraid.

And you further said:

"I suppose it depends on the matching personality template that gives one stars in their eyes and butterflies in their stomach...and her being faithful or not has nothing whatever to do with what she looks like."

Yes ... this is my belief also.

If the 'template' formed in a son by having had a deceitful, dishonest, unfaithful superficial mother, then, in my opinion, this son would probably unconsciously be attracted to this kind of woman. Thus in his experience all women that he found attractive and with whom he formed a relationship would tend to be of the superficial,unfaithful kind.

In my friend's experience, his wife appears to have been very faithful. I have no idea about his mother. I don't know what his 'template' is like. All the women that he has had - and he has had many that he considers beautiful - seemed to my knowledge to have been faithful to him.

He has an above average aversion to unfaithful women. Perhaps he simply focuses on beautiful women who are unfaithful, neglecting to even notice the rest. This behavior is called overgeneralization in the psych world.

(post by Tez)

===================================

December 16, 2005
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guest_guest
16-Dec-05

You said:

" friends I'm sorry to have strayed this thread for this original discussion."

No need to apologize, bro. The Thread has gone very quiet anyway. I think that we might have exhausted the topic and the interest

December 16, 2005
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oh ok thanks good then.. I can now sing "This used to be and still IS my playground". alicat helped me make some decisions on that girl. I have to ask her some tough questions and basically tell her that look, if you're not completely out of your current relationship, I dont think we should be more than friends in any way and we have been more than friends in the past, and that was not right and not healthy for any of us. If you're out, then do you think both of us should still be open to dating other people etc. I need to improve my communication skills. I have questions that come up, excellent ones in the moment I need to ask them but they're lost when I'm not feeling grounded. I feel more peaceful now to be ready to ask her these questions. For sure I know she'll miss me and is going to talk to me later and I'll use this chance to hopefully clear out stuff and ask her, where do we stand. Are we friends, or not etc and then yes, I feel uncomfortable being with her if she's not completely out of her current situation. Thats what she needs to do then and I even told her, get a job, get out of that house, why are you living with him when you dont like him anymore, when he lies to you etc.
Lets see .. if she calls me. She might at 9pm, I'm thinking, or she might tomorrow. If she doesnt call tomorrow.. I'm out of town and then she's going to miss me a lot which is good. hehe... but I cannot let myself get into this mess. I need to improve my communication and relax and be grounded when I'm around her.

December 17, 2005
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guest_guest.

I can only reiterate what I've said elsewhere:

WATCH OUT bro - you are on very thin ice!!!

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