Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
America
July 13, 2004
12:03 pm
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have just come back from the cinema which advertised a new movie Shrek 2. It turned out that the publishers had muddled up the movie dates. What I eventually watched was Michael Moore's ' Fahrenheit 911' --- A controversial look at the Bush administration in America on September 11th 2001 and the business links between Bush and the Bin Larden families.

It was shown at The World Premiere in Cannes this year and went on to win the predacious Palme d'Or - whilst it struggled to find a distributor in America.
I am politically inept - but this film has caused me to think very hard at political reality.

The contents of this film was very disturbing. The most anti war film that I have ever had the honour to see. The English audience stood for 15 minuets clapping in ovation - this was a spontaneous reaction - very rare to see the English react like that. People also stood for a long time outside in the street talking with somewhat shocked faces.
Anam Cara

July 13, 2004
6:46 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't wanna touch the political aspects of all this, as debating politics is a never-ending thing and can get really ugly.

However, has anybody else noticed that anytime there is an opportunity to bash the President of the United States, whether he is Democrat or Republican, the opportunity is taken?

People love the drama and the slamming of our government, and quite frankly, I don't really get it. What if a movie were to be made about all the good things a president did? How much ya wanna bet nobody would go?

It's a can't win for losing position, and quite frankly, somebody couldn't pay me enough to take it.

Every day since I began voting at the age of 18, I've been grateful that somebody had the courage to assume the Presidency of the United States. And whether I agree with their percieved political agenda or not, I for one would never partake in the slamming of our government. In all reality and truth, it is by far the best on this globe, regardless of who holds the office and regardless of the political party in power. It always has been.

free

July 13, 2004
7:19 pm
Avatar
gingerleigh
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Amen, sister.

July 13, 2004
7:43 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Free.

You said:

"In all reality and truth, it is by far the best on this globe, regardless of who holds the office and regardless of the political party in power. It always has been."

Do you condone torture, war, ecomomic oppression, racism, colonialism?

Where else in the world have you travelled?

Have you been to Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Scandinavia, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc ...?

Have you studied world history?

Me thinketh you may have your rose colored glasses on - glasses manufactured by the US propaganda machine.

Constructive criticism of one's own country is a healthy thing - it can bring about change for the better. Had sufficient numbers of Germans criticized Adolf Hitler in the early years of the Nazi regime, maybe WWII may not have happened. Who can say that the same does not apply to Bush now? Don't think that it couldn't happen in America! In my humble opinion, it has already started.

PS - I'm an Australian living in Oz. I see our Prime Minister boot licking Bush in the vain hope that the US will come to our aid again as it did in WW2. In my view, the US always does what it thinks is in its own best interests - albeit somewhat myopically.

Anam Cara:

Thank you for your posting. I will view this movie with an open mind at the first opportunity.

July 14, 2004
1:15 am
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Free - as I said I am politically inept. And yes I thank America for their support in WW2 - have stood in sadness and gratitude among thousands of your war dead at Omaha Beach. I have no intention to debate the issues of politics either. Bashing the government if they are wrong and corrupt is every citizens duty. Michael Moor is brave enough to do this among I imagine considerable risks associated with doing so. Freedom of speech - open minds is what makes any country worth fighting for - your young soldiers have there opportunity to say something in this film concerning how they see their roll in the killing fields of Iraq. Go see what is being said and consider issues of blind patriotism after. I am proud of how you defend your government. But tear it down if you see it driving in the wrong direction for the sake of all our sons.

July 14, 2004
11:06 am
Avatar
sixfootblonde
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Right behind you, free.

Amen girl.

Too easy to stand back among the faceless throng and pick apart the acts of those who stand, elected by the majority, to do the best they as human beings with their own failings, for us. Too easy to pull out isolated incidents and jeer and taunt. Just like the bullies in school who picked on others to hide their own insecurities....

I will always be proud to stand behind our flag. I will never forget the police, fire and EMS brothers and sisters of mine who died on 9/11 without a thought for self, doing what they lived for and were trained for...helping others. The unknown number of service personnel who've fallen in anonymous fields thru the years so that we have the right to say what we choose.

To each his own opinion. This is mine. "God bless America, land that I love." We are so blessed.

July 15, 2004
1:14 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Right with you SFB.

Tez, been to more places than that. World travel, immersion in other cultures, is a favorite past time of mine, as has been and when given the time still is, the study of world history. Surprises you coming from an American mathematician, yes?

There is no country innocent of the topics you have brought up. The United States is the richest in the world economocally, and the richest in natural resources next only to Canada. Bugs, yes?

Anam, I will always stand by my government, whether I voted the members in or not. I vote. I speak. I write. In opposition, and in support. But always, Anam, with utmost respect. Without my government, I wouldn't live in the most sought after place on this globe. I wouldn't live the life that virtually all others who don't live here, envy and would buy with their lives. I'm lucky. I was born here. I know I'm lucky. That's not an arrogant statement, it is one that acknowledges my luck for which gratitude could never be enough. I'll never spit in the face of luck or the government that makes this possible.

Tear this government down? Never. Stand beside her? With my life.

free

July 15, 2004
1:33 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I purposefully neglected a point for fear of it's potentially inflamatory under current. perhaps best to just get it out in the open. Tez, you state that America does what is in its best inerests. That's why I vote, Tez. That is what I want my government to do. I truly believe a government's main priority is to ensure the best inerests of its people.

America entered WW2 kuz it was in her best interests. Finally, she decided that isolationism carried too high a price. That's what it's all about Tez. The pricetag.

Many people abhor this fact. Capitalism. It is what makes this country so powerful, and it's people free.

With World Super Power status does come the moral obligation to care for and support others. We do that to the tune of billions. Just not on the scale that others think it should be- not on the scale where our own interests become a sacrifice.

free

free

July 15, 2004
4:38 pm
Avatar
sixfootblonde
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

*Standing ovation*

Gotta love a well-spoken, well-educated woman who unabashedly stands behind her beliefs; moreover, can defend them eloquently.

July 15, 2004
6:00 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

SFB you're just too cool!

I'm glad you appreciate what was written, despite all the typos. Was late last night-

free

July 15, 2004
7:27 pm
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think I made a really important break through today. I was in town and met up with an American friend of my sons. I took up with the issues of ' Fahrenheit 911'. I asked her "have you seen this film." I told her that it ended with the audience standing and clapping. "Oh dear" she said (forgetting everything else I had previously outlined) "That's very bad for America - things like that make people hate Americans" I looked at her shocked - because her blind patriotism had completely overshadowed much of what I was talking about. It suddenly struck me that she had no idea why we were clapping this documentary. We applauded as a tribute towards your country for having the balls to examine the possibility of a corrupt administration. Why have you grouped together now in a defensive mode? Just take time to look at what Michael Moor has put before you - stop waving your flag at everything and consider the evidence.

July 16, 2004
3:29 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Excuse me? I've taken a defensive posture? I re-read my posts and don't quite see where I ever mentioned yet alone "defended" our current administration or any specific administration for that matter.

It appears as though YOU think our current administration is corrupt. My feelings and opinions have not been posted. It appears as though the right way to see things is your way. It seems you want me to criticize and attack our current administration. "Tear it down" as was previously posted.

No.

Hollywood can do what it wants. That's the beauty of living here in the good old U-S of A. Hollywood producers and directors just love to hang all the dirty laundry out for all to see- with all the dramatization and special effects that draw the crowds- people love that. They rake in YOUR money and laugh all the way to the bank. think all that money is gonna go to change the government? Who in Hollywood lobbies and for what purpose? Think all that money is gonna go to help the poor and needy? War torn countries? Poverty stricken nations?

Ha. It goes to buy another vacation home in one of those countries that hates us but has beautiful beaches, etc., for the right price. Viewers of movies like this buy those vacation homes and yachts and personal jets.

The people of America pay taxes to help the poor and needy all over this globe. The working class. The ones who depend on our government to insure our rights and our freedoms. Like the freedom to live unafraid of an attack on our mainland by radical Muslims.

Try that Hollywood business in China. Afghanistan. Africa. Iraq. Syria. Iran. Pakistan. Egypt. Soviet Union. South American Countries such as Venezuela. North Korea. Vietnam. Need I go on?

Stand and clap if so desired, but please spare the pat on the shoulder for being so courageous as to scrutinize our government. The people of the United States have always scrutinized the government- how silly of anybody to cheer the "willingness to scrutinize our government." Jeepers we had a civil war. Roosevelt has been accused of placing our Pacific fleet in a sitting duck status in order to insure an attack that would move America to enter WWII. Movements galore in the 60's. Mourned the assassination of two Presidents. Darn near impeached a President and almost moved to impeach another. These were difficult times in American history, as have been others. the American people have no problem standing up against percieved government corruption.

We also have no problem uniting when called to do so. Our government will not be overthrown or tore down because it represents the people, and any outside attack causes us to unite despite differences. Our President will never become a Hitler or Stalin or Napoleon, etc, because we have checks and balances- the Senate and the House of Reps along with the other branches. It was designed this way to balance power to insure that power stays with the majority of the American people.

People who run to see these types of movies make Hollywood producers and directors who they are: some of the richest people in the world. With movies like this, they'll surely stay that way.

Our government will never fail or fall or be torn down. I have faith in the American people, as represented by our government.

Worked for a number of years with the Department of Defense. Much goes on that the civilian population just can't know about kuz doing so would jeapardize THEIR security. All the good people knowing means all the bad people know, too.

People wanna know, and it often makes them angry that they can't. They become paranoid. The media and Hollywood feed that paranoia, and feed off of it. Boy could I tell some stories, what comes to mind is the whole him-hah-harroo that happened over the Peacekeeper (Mx) Missile. That puppy ended the cold war, I'm tellin' ya- I worked it- and in short, it ended the cold war.

In the long run, we remain the world's most dominant Super Power. The only nation in all of History to rise to Super Power Status in so short a time. Almost instantaneously.

As such, ours remains the government to criticize, the government to hate, the government to want to tear down. Regardless of who is the President. Regardless of the administration. Regardless of all the politics, scandals, and beurocracy that mark each and every administration.

Just don't expect the American people to ever tear down our government.

She's who we are, whether liked or not, by others or our own selves.

Our government is who we are.

Maybe a new administration will take office in November. Maybe we'll "change"- you know, put on a little mascara, flutter the eyelashes, speak charmingly to kinda smooth things over around the globe. Adolescents do things like that. And ya know, as young as this country is, that's really what we are if ya think about it. So maybe a new administration will take office in November.

Then again, maybe not.

free

July 16, 2004
4:37 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anam, I re-read your post in an attempt to understand where the mis- communication or differences are coming from. I really want to understand.

I'm just not seeing where I've displayed blind patriotism. This claim is bothering me. I love my country, even though there are things that really tick me off sometimes. I'm grateful and feel blessed and lucky to live here, especially after having been around the globe a bit. I do speak out and vote in opposition of things, and in support of others. The day I refuse to stand beside my government and my country would be the saddest day of my life. I'd be so lost.

I'll watch this movie. When it comes out on video. It will be copied by a friend who rented it with a free coupon and then given to many others to see. If I rent it, it'll be with a free coupon. My social group does not support Hollywood.

I won't support Hollywood. Talk about corruption and parasitic behavior. I live by Hollywood, and watch those involved in this film get chauffered around Beverly Hills in Limousines and dine in the finest restaurants with their own personal body guards and buy beachfront property for private use- beachfront property that should be accessible to all people- it's MY coastline, too- they fly in their own personal jets with their own personal pilots from their own personal airport to wherever on the globe they wish to go- they have it all, and it's because they live in a country that permits this, and yet they bash it and bash it and bash it, and not because they want to "open the eyes of the American people" or change the world for the better but because they want to live this way and we provide it by supporting them. They feed like parasites.

I do want to see this movie because of the controversy. controversy sparks intelligent speculation and conversation.

This movie could provide a different perspective, but evidence? Evidence from Hollywood?

C'mon Anam. Really?

Evidence to open the eyes of the American people for the good of us all? then why is it not provided for free, or at least, at cost?

It's 7-10 bucks a head to see this "evidence." And people are flocking. In my city, close to Hollywood, it's not even being shown.

free

July 16, 2004
5:12 am
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Free - I did not purposely go see this movie as my first post explained - I had paid for my ticket and then was informed that Shrek 2 was not scheduled on that day.

Again I say I applaud your love for your country. I suppose the difference between our political systems is that we daily publicly criticise the other party in our House at Westminster - thus it opens up a debate across all divisions. Which produces possibly a different response - to I suppose issues raised in ' Fahrenheit 911'.

I am glad to have this response and to hear all what you have to say - I did not mean any disrespect.
Anam.

July 16, 2004
5:26 am
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Free - I did not purposely go see this movie as my first post explained - I had paid for my ticket and then was informed that Shrek 2 was not scheduled on that day.

Again I say I applaud your love for your country. I suppose the difference between our political systems is that we daily publicly criticise the other party in our House at Westminster - thus it opens up a debate across all divisions. Which produces possibly a different response - to I suppose - like issues raised in ' Fahrenheit 911'.

I am glad to have this response and to hear all what you have to say - I did not mean any disrespect.
Anam.

July 16, 2004
5:46 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm glad to hear what you say, too, Anam, and I did not feel disrespected at all. I think maybe I interjected a bit of sarcasm, but please know it was not meant to be hostile. Just kinda "hello." If that makes any sense. I hope so. I mean no disprespect to you or Tez, I hope you know that.

I'm concerned.

About potential blind patriotism on my part. I don't want to be that way.

I want to understand your perspective. I want to either agree at some point, or be able to disagree and feel content.

Last summer I was in Venezuela- a beautiful country but suffering political upheaval- I highly recommend travel to Island Santa Margarita- off the coast from Caracus. This place is astonishing in its beauty. a most disturbing incident occurred. We were perusing through an art gallery. I was so taken by this one picture at first, a beautiful palm beach much like the one I stayed at, a breeze seemed to flow along a sandy coast barren of people, astonishing in it's color and beauty. In the background, faint,in a black and gray shroud that enveloped the entire canvas, a mushroom cloud. it was shocking. this picture drew me in and not until I was in, was I to become aware.

Another picture. In tones of various reds and blacks. Uncle Sam with horns and the quote "I want you."

This saddened me.

We had just come back from a Jeep Safari. The locals where we stopped were so poor. they lived in makeshift huts and sold shells and rocks. They spoke a strange and very different dialect and so communication was difficult- turned out to be a slang, an uneducated dialect known only to them (according to the tour guide- these people had NO education, none whatsoever). We gave them our money. they wouldn't take it without giving us a large amount of shells and rocks and coral that I knew we would have to leave behind at customs. This is how they made their living. Selling to tourists who stop there on the Jeep Safaris.

I wanted to go drink and gamble that night. Self-medication I guess. Get away from it all. Pretend it doesn't exist, if just for a few hours.

Met an Israeli arms dealer.

free

July 16, 2004
6:47 am
Avatar
Anam Cara
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nice of you free to say and share that. I talk to one person direct now from America - who is well aware and has a real good hold on life as they say.

What completely threw me was when she said we were coming to the UK but we are nervouse about us being in Britain because of threats. Goodness ! Micheal Moor covers things like that.. Events have scared the shit out of us.
Anam.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
31
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110935
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38542
Posts: 714222
Newest Members:
jessicawales, documentsonline, SafeWork, thomasalina, genericsmartdrugs, 才艺
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer