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Ah the bible.
August 14, 2005
2:45 am
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SoVeryLost
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There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18 KJV)
(Bible verse of the day, http://www.bible.com)

August 14, 2005
9:54 am
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kathygy
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SVL,
I'm sure you had only the best intentions, however, your post from the bible makes me feel very uncomfotable. Quoting the bible is against the guidelines. See separation of religion. If you want to talk about the bible go to the liberation brew threads.

love,
kathy

August 14, 2005
10:18 am
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kathygy
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SVL,

I do not mean to be insenstitive to your feelings. I know you have been dealing with a lot of pain. I imagine that you found comfort in this quote from the bible and wanted to share that. The only problem is that talking about the bible does not belong on this site.

love,
kathy

August 14, 2005
11:40 am
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Anam Cara
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Very true - but fear in love is what most of the topics deal with here. How you cast it out may mean that you have to move on and over the moment.
Ac

August 14, 2005
12:08 pm
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mamacinnamon
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SVL:

Kathy is correct on not quoting the Bible on Support threads. It is in the guidelines and we must follow the guidelines whether we agree w/ them or not. So, come on up to the Liberation Brew Threads. We will be quite happy to read your quotes of the day from the Bible. 🙂

SC can you move us upstairs please. 🙂

August 14, 2005
7:59 pm
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Anonymous
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SV,

I can see why that verse inspired you, John was beautiful that way.

His talks more about that pure love of Jesus and the divinity of Jesus that any other gospel.

They say he was the youngest diciple and the one who kept his head pinned to Jesus' chest. What an image. What peace and security he must have felt there.

I'll talk with you about John and his gospel if you want to go to the lib threads.

August 15, 2005
11:26 am
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StronginHim77
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Aren't we allowed to quote poetry or various authors who inspire here? So, why not be able to quote the Bible which is an excellent literary masterpiece, full of history, poetry and wisdom? I'm kinda neutral, but I surely don't see the harm in it. Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the source.

August 15, 2005
11:52 am
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mamacinnamon
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StronginHim77:

I totally agree w/ you, but we fought this out awhile back and the decision was made. No Bible quoting in Support threads. So, sorry to say, but we must follow the rules. No need to rehash. In Liberation Threads we can talk and quote the Bible all we want. Be very happy to see you up there. 🙂

August 15, 2005
12:07 pm
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Anonymous
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I would love to research this for my own understanding.

Does anyone know the title of the thread where the decision was made against bible quoting?

August 15, 2005
1:06 pm
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flutechick
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Question: there was a thread that asked what a person's favorite "proverb" was and I gave mine. I took it from the book of Proverbs so, this does leave things open to one's interpretation of where they get their life inspiratons from. I also enjoy Zen readings, would they be verbotten too?

August 15, 2005
1:09 pm
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kathygy
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Y & R,

There were many, many threads on this issue. The SC decided after great thought to create this guideline. All the threads about the bible and relgion have been erased. The guideline is final. We spent a lot of time discussing this issue here.

stronghim, I doubt there's any desire to bring this issue back up again for discussion. You may disagree with it but the decision has been made. Sorry you missed the opportunity to give your input. I certainly don't want to get back into it.

August 15, 2005
1:20 pm
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kathygy
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flute, quoting from the bible is out. I don't know what the book of probverbs is but if it is related to the bible then its against the guidelines and people just let you slip by.

Given all we have been through with this issue in the past and it was a lot! I think its fruitless to try to discuss it all over again. It was exhausting and created a lot of tension on this site. It is best to accept the guideline at this point and drop the topic.

August 15, 2005
1:27 pm
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kathygy
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flute,

I don't know about zen quotes. If you are in doubt I suggest that you send an email to the site coordinator.

love,
kathy

August 15, 2005
2:29 pm
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flutechick
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No fear. I'm not quotin' nuthin'. Just was curious about the "Proverbs" thread a few weeks ago. I came out of a severely restrictive church and get quoted at from my exhusband all the time about what a heritic and decieved person I am. 9 months ago is was toking and drinking. He uses every scripture in the book to lure me back. It is very difficult because I do get strength for religious writings too. It's just frustrating when scriptures are used to hit someone else over the head or force their own agenda with them. I always say that it is not my business to take someone elses spirtual temperature. Wish my ex. would understand that with me.

Have a good one :). Hope I followed the guidelines.

August 15, 2005
2:45 pm
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Anonymous
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Hi Kathy,

Yes, there does appear to be some tension around the subject of religion.

While I understand that exhaustive debating took place here on the subject, it was all before my time and leaves me with many unanswered questions.

Please understand that my goal is not to reinvent that old tension, but to achieve maximum clarity on this subject.

I am familiar with what Guideline number three says about religion. It discourages preaching and mssionizing because there is no one correct religion on this site. Suggest use of Liberation Brew Threads for this. I get that. Makes perfect sense. But there is a drastic difference between proselytizing and simply mentioning some bit of Biblical, or Koran, or Torah wisdom. It can be done responsibly.

I think this is why we are encouraged in the guideline tips to include sources for wise sayings that we post that could potentially help people.

If there are no feelings of discomfort or contempt from reading Einstein or Aristotle after a quote, then why should there be with reading Thessalonians or Corinthians or Buddah?

Curious, I need your help to understand.

August 15, 2005
2:51 pm
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kathygy
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Einstein and Aristole do not represent any reglions. The bible represents christians. We went over all of this in the past. Not everyone here believes in the bible or takes the bible literally. If you want more clarification I suggest that you send an email to the site coordinator. I really don't want to get into this again. We covered it all. I'm sorry you were not here at the time.

August 15, 2005
2:59 pm
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Anonymous
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I understand that you do not want to get into it again. I can only imagine how unplesant it must have been. It seem to have really taken a toll on many people.

I will email the SC at some point.

But, if anyone here cares to contribute to my understanding, I would appreciate it very much.

August 15, 2005
3:32 pm
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kathygy
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the bible is considered to be as religious document. Therefore quoting from the bible is bringing relgion to this web site and considered to be missionizing. If the bible helps you that is great but it does not belong here. You can always go to the liberation brew.

August 15, 2005
4:00 pm
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helpdad
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I'm just the new guy, but I think my mom was right about religion and politics. I'm a huge bible fan and politicaly conservative - but who cares? Church and state are divided here for a purpose. Those who do not share my particular religious or political beliefs will tune out instantly and not be supported. We all have a gift to help and be helped without hitting ourselves over the head with scripture. That's too easy. Feeling and supporting from the heart is all that counts. I like what Kathygy has to say! BTW - are you getting help SoVeryLost?

August 15, 2005
5:19 pm
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on my way
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I am surprised that everyone else answered except So Very Lost again. Wow, we go to such great trouble to keep the Bible off., I have noticed though that a lot more people on this sight are asking for prayer, asking to know about God, etc. since we moved upstairs to Libs.

Great verse SoVeryLost...and so very true, so up to Libs?

August 15, 2005
7:45 pm
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CODA_Mom
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SVL,

Gosh, guy, please don't take all of this to heart, that was a great verse and thanks for sharing. As Anam Cara pointed out, many of the concerns posted on this site have fear in love associated with them and this speaks beautifully to believers about that.

However, as mamac has mentioned, we also need to follow guidelines that the SC has posted regarding quotes from the Bible. This is not a Christian site, per se, although there are many Bible-believing Christians here (including myself). We have to keep in mind that we can not dictate what the guidelines are, but have to submit to them if we want to stay here.

For any other "newbies" (those who were not here during the "holy war"). If it seems that some of us are talking in shudders about that particular time, it was something that none of us wants to go thru again. There were things said on both sides of the issue that dug deep. It was an all-out "free for all" and many folks were hurt. I, myself, vowed that I was leaving but was raked back in by caring friends here.

Please, guys, let's not go there again. SoVeryLost is reaching out for answers and we need to help him find them. At least on this thread we can try to help him mentally and emotionally, but spiritual help can only be offered in Lib Brew.

So, SVL, whenever you're ready, just skip over to there (and anyone else who wants spiritual input, too ;).

Grace & peace to all,

CM

August 15, 2005
8:23 pm
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mamacinnamon
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CODA_Mom:

So very wisely and appropriately spoken. I hesitated to say more coz I still have bruises and am trying to not lose my peace. Just wanted to say Thank You. 🙂

August 15, 2005
9:27 pm
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on my way
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CODA_Mom...Very nicely said. The issue was fear in love I agree, not the Bible.

August 15, 2005
11:15 pm
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StronginHim77
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As a literature major, I had to study the Bible from both a literary and historical perspective (at a secular university, I might add). First, let me correct a statement made by Kathy earlier. The Bible is NOT a "Christian" book. Over 70% of its contents is Jewish Scripture (The Old Testament books). Secondly, I must agree with the statement made by Young & Restless about the fundamental difference between proselytizing and quoting. If someone is not attempting to "preach or plug their specific religion," (whether it be Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Aetheism, etc.),then I cannot follow the "logic" (?) of forbidding any such references. If that is indeed this sites policy, then it should be a non-discriminatory policy that applies to Aristotle, Mao, Jesus, etc. universally, as opposed to simply excluding any "Christian" or Jewish references, but permitting Greek or Comuunist references. Why the discrimination? This seems intrinsically biased to me.

August 16, 2005
12:27 am
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mamacinnamon
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SVL:

I wanted to tell you I'm sorry for taking away from your thread. Personally, I love that verse and I thank you for bringing it to share w/ us. I started to make this same thread upstairs in Lib Brew, but it's not my place. I, for one, would really like to see a daily verse posted in Liberation Brew. Would be a an uplifting breath to get each day started with. I think you will have alot of good chatter regarding each day. So, that said, would you consider putting your daily verse upstairs to share w/ us? Truly appreciate your thought on this matter. 🙂

SIM77: Great point. Thanks 🙂

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