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Afghan Sisters Refuge
November 24, 2006
11:32 am
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needtoheal
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It have to admit that it is nice so far over here having a Zen-mom... I don't know if she would want to watch over all of us shits...

November 24, 2006
11:37 am
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Zinnie
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Mich and all the other "sisters" - and any one else that drops by to read...

First of all, Mich, I WAS very worried about the amount that you drank last night. If you drink like that in concentrated binges it tears you up worse than if you were pounding them down daily.

Do I give a shit? About most things? Of course. But, something that I have learned over the years is that if it does not directly affect ME personally? Learn to let it go.

The reason I said "step away from the crazy-making" was this... I popped on the thread yesterday, accidently - but, started reading. What I saw was this - someone gave you feedback that you didn't feel you deserve. Maybe you didn't! Maybe you did? Perhaps you were being overly dramatic during a post that someone read? Again, I don't know. BUT, what I did see was this - you all came over to the Libs side - some of us "seasoned posters" over here saw a new thread and popped on said "welcome" and you were generous back...

So, did you forget or neglect to post back to someone on your other thread? Or made someone feel that you were being exclusive? Again, I don't know - only you know that - but... you CAN NOT control what others think, but, you can control what you do.

Again, continue to support each other in the forum that is helpful to you, and don't worry about what any one else has had to say. You only need to worry about YOU.

Z.

November 24, 2006
11:49 am
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ggfred4
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Zinnie,,,don't know if I have met you personally, but I am gg...I like what you just said about not controlling what others think, but you can control what you do...My problem...too sensitive...but, I am trying to work on that...

Need, On. Sun. afternnoons and nights, I think there are coda meetings on paltalk...Go to codaonline.net (I think .net instead of .org; not sure, of course...look who is talking here) Anyway, they have a meeting schedule...I know for sure there is typing only meetings on Monday nites..not on paltalk, but on codaonline.............and need? hope I am not screwing up info now...guess I should have checked first, but kind of nervous right now...been thinking about you a lot and keeping you close in my heart, sis....

mich, we think so much alike, yet, I tend to turn inward more; that is when I write those poems; but it is my way of hiding and I don't think that is good anymore for me...

cyn, you must have an awesome memory to remember that I can't have any pain meds, and boy do I need some now...thanks for the advice about the ice though...love you

LL, missing you like crazy!!! Hope you are getting the beauty sleep you deserve after working so much...

3 hrs. 10 min....countdown

November 24, 2006
12:04 pm
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lollipop3
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Hello Sisters,

At the risk of stirring the pot, I would like to make some comments. Believe me, I have learned my lesson well here and in the future I will no longer give feedback to you girls that obviously is not wanted but I do feel it necessary to address the issues at hand.

Speaking only for myself here....the comments that I made in regards to the dependence that was developing on the "sisters" threads had nothing at all to do with me being "bored", or just wanting to "pick on" you girls or to tell you how you should or should not recover.

The way I understood this site is that it is a place for codependents to come to learn about codependency and to try to recover from it with the help and support of others. When I saw what, in my opinion, was very codendent behavior, I had wanted to bring it to your attention but I was afraid that I would get the exact reaction that I have gotten, so I kept quiet. But when a thread was started I decided to voice my opinion and I tried to do so in the most diplomatic and non-attacking way I could. Obviously it was not taken that way. But that, to me, is the purpose of this site. To help others recover from codependency....not to encourage it. To me, the purpose of this site, is to offer feedback....which is what I did. It was in no way meant to be an attack or to make anyone feel unwanted or wrong and I am sorry that some of you took it that way.

Having said that....you girls are not the only ones that no longer feel "safe" here. Because of your reaction....I no longer feel safe giving feedback to you (or others) without fear of being attacked and called judgemental and being made to feel that my feedback is the reason that people feel the need to leave this site. Is that fair to me or others that are trying to support the purpose of this site?

Some of you have gone so far as to accuse me, and others, of "following" you over here. This is a public forum. No one is following anyone anywhere and it is comments like that that make some of us feel that we are not "supposed" to post on "your" threads. Isn't it possible that comments like that make others feel that the "sisters threads" are a clique? Are they so wrong for thinking that, based on comments like "we are being followed"?

Again, I am not trying to upset any of you further. I just really wish that instead of getting defensive you would take a breath and really look at what has been said to you. Is it possible that the comments made have been so upsetting because there is some truth to what has been said?

As far as I can tell....no one wants any of you to leave. And I for one, don't want any of you to stop supporting each other. But please consider the purpose of this site and know that any feedback you may get is only meant to help....not hurt.

In my opinion, the reaction here makes valid the point that some of us were trying to make. I hope that you can see that.

If any of you would like to discuss this further in a non-defensive, respectful way.....I would be happy to continue the conversation. If not.... I wish you the best.

No matter what you decide I wish you all the best of luck on your journeys.

Respectfully,
Lolli

November 24, 2006
12:10 pm
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needtoheal
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GG-- thanks for holding me close to your heart...

It makes me even more sad that you are counting down ...

Thanks for the information and you did NOT screw anything up and even if that was the case I would still love you just as much!!!

I know that you are very nervous... Try to relax.. How is your knee? Were you able to keep it up and did you put an ice pack on it??

November 24, 2006
12:23 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Lolli,

I sit here with tears falling from my face after reading what you just wrote. You mentioned the part where I said that I felt like we were followed. Were we not turtured enough over there? We did what we were asked to do. We moved, yet to still be attacked over here. Yes, did you all make some valid points? I will give you that. Several of you did. But, I think that there had to be a much more delicate way to handle it. Do we feel judged for the way we handled certain things? Absolutely. Several of the posts were done in a manner of judgment. At least that is how we took it. I have read and re-read that thread to try to make myself see it otherwise and I cannot. There have been several times that I have not agreed with someone, or advice that was given and I have chosen to walk away without saying a word. I fully believe in my heart of hearts that had the issue been addressed to us, in the sister thread that we (EVERYONE of us) would have handled it better than a thread being started to try to suggest how we deal with our healing. Has there been melodrama over there, yes. Is there tyoically something wrong over there? Yes? We are all going through some VERY difficult times. I am very sensitive. I had learned to trust for the first time in my life. I have shared things that I have NEVER shared before. That has made me very nervous, and a little on edge. I am clinically suicidal. I am doing my best. I have spent 25 hours in counseling inthe last 6 weeks with someone who is wonderful. I am trying. And to feel like everything I do is being watched and judged is very tough for me to take. I have never up until now felt threatened by anyone here. EVER. I felt like I was making progress, it is a 2 step forward and I feel like I just took 12 steps back. Trusting is a very tough thing for me to start with, and I did it, to only feel like I can't be me anymore. That hurts. I truly feel that it wasn't anything that was necessarily said by you or anyone else, but the way it was handled.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to us. Thank you for letting us see it from your point of view as well. I do hope that your journey of recovery goes smooth and well also. We all deserve the best, and I hope that we all get there. No matter what it takes.

Mich

November 24, 2006
12:37 pm
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(((Scared))),

Thank you for responding and I'm sorry that my post made you cry:(

Believe me, I don't want to cause you more pain that what you are dealing with in your life. I hope you know that.

I would really like to be able to talk to you (and the others) about this.

Like, for instance.....some of the words you used.....

"tortured" "attacked" "judged"

I hear what you are saying about the manner in which it was done and I'm sorry that it made you feel badly, but those are very strong words.

Will you consider for a moment....and I can only speak for my comments here.....that it was said, not out of judgement....but out of concern? Is it possible that it was said not to attack....but to help? That I came over here not to torture you, but to continue this dialogue so that we could resolve these hurt feelings?

Isn't it possible that I really was just trying to help?

I know that trust is hard for you.....as it is for me. But could you try in the future to give me the benefit of the doubt and believe that I honestly don't want to hurt you?

Isn't is possible that you can receive feedback...and even critisizm and know you are still okay and that people still love and care about you?

Feedback is okay. Disagreeing is okay. We can disagree and still respect and care about each other.

You don't have to stop trusting me or anyone here. You can feel free to be yourself and share your thoughts and support your friends.

We are all here to help each other.

Love,
Lolli

November 24, 2006
1:18 pm
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Zinnie
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Mich,

Part of growing IS learning to accept constructive criticism. Often times it is said with the best of intentions.

Another part of learning is in learning to get along - or for lack of a better term - learning to accept.

People have commented on how well my husband and I get along - both out in the real world and even on here. Worried Dad even created an entire thread dedicated to my marriage. Why does it work? Well, here is a clue - we are both middle children of big families. He is one of six, I am one of eleven. When you grow up in a family of that size, you tend to be a little "tougher" and you learn that you can disagree and still love one another.

There was another poster here, she has since left - but, something she thanked me for was being the first person who said to her "I think we can agree that we disagree on this subject." and we remained friends.

Again, you can NOT control what other people say or do, but, you can control YOUR reaction to it.

Z.

November 24, 2006
1:20 pm
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Just wanted to stop in and say hi..and leave you all a

(((((big hug)))))

Love Soulsister

November 24, 2006
1:21 pm
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Zinnie
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And GG? Thank you for introducing yourself.

I find I have been here more today than over the last year.

I hope all of you are well today - remember, only you are responsible for you.

Z.

November 24, 2006
1:53 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Lolli,

Can you put yourelf in our shoes for just a minute? Say you have a thread that consists of several people that have been close for a while. Where you feel you are finally able to talk, finally able to trust, finally abel to believe that you are loved NO MATTER what is said, or what you do. That is where we were. Now, bear in mind that these are MY feelings alone. I am only speaking for me. Now, all of a sudden there is a thread posted merely to say that people don't agree with the way you are going about your healing. I in no way, shape or form believe that any one of us girls agree with everything that each other has done. But we were comfortable. I will not use the words attacked, or tortured for your benefit here. But so people disagree...FINE. But tell us, was there truly a need to start a tread about us? In which I was singled out in those threads as well. So may my pain be a little different maybe. I agreed that there were things that were not done maybe to someone elses standards, but I do see it as a judgement call, kind of. What makes me mad the most, is I felt like I had to defend myself, over someone elses opinions of my healing. I don't feel like my methods of healing is anyone elses to question. If it was my only source, maybe. I am taking it one step at a time. I am reading, I have started counseling, and everything else. Am I oversensitive? Probably, and that is not helpful in this situtaion. But, bear in mind, people have left this site over this, that were not involved at all. So we were not alone in our feelings here. I am not blaming you or anyone person. I believe that if people had advice for us they should have come to us. That is all. Should we decide to stay, I truly hope that this isn't handled this way at all. If I didn't believe that these girls had any contribution to me and me mental health, I would have already been gone. I feel as though I have made a difference in the lives of some other people around here as well. I don't truly want to give that up. But, I can and will for my security if it comes to that.

I have truly grown to love and appreiciate SEVERAL people on this site. I believe that I have helped and have been helped. I have never had an ill feeling towards anyone that has been here (with the exception of astute. I am just hurt. Will it go away? Maybe? Are we running from our issues if we leave? I don't see it that way, I would see it as taking a step in a new direction. Maybe that is what I need. And please know this, my decision will not be completely affected by my "sisters" opinions.

Just know that I will not leave angry. With you or anyone...I am over being angry about any of this...now I am just hurt. Will I get over it? hopefully...Will I trust here? Will I ever be as comfortable as I once was? Those are still to be seen? We will see what happens. Thank you for trying to "right" this situation to the best of your ability. As I said before, we all deserve the best for our healing journey, the question is, can mine continue here? Time will tell. Thanks and God bless you.

Mich

November 24, 2006
2:06 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Zin, I completely agree with you, that part of growing is learning to accept constructive critisism. BUT, I think that what happened here, cannot be misconstrued as that, at least not on my eyes. If that is how is was intended I feel that it was done poorly, and have attempted to let them know that I think so. Which is exactly what was done to us...When I have spent my whole life questioning who I am and what have I ever done anything right, I admit, I don't handle critisism very well, constructive or not. I truly struggle with that, and that isn't anyones problem. It is a reason for my quick need to defend myself. I will outgrow it. And had it been done differently I believe whole heartedly that I would have handled it differently. We will never know. When you spend your entire likfe told that you are a fat, lazy bitch that will never amount to anything that is what you learn to believe. I just started to not believe that, in fact I just told my husband the other night that I am starting to finally believe in me. I am starting to see some good qualities in myself. I am a good, caring, person. I just want to be loved and accepted, and being tossed to the other side of the wall here didn't help that. I am just hurting. It isn't anyones fault, and I am here trying to learn tonot let my past control my life. This is proof I haven't succeeded. I am sorry.

November 24, 2006
2:10 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Hey soulsister...

Good to see you. Hope all is well with you and you had a good holiday.

Mich

November 24, 2006
2:14 pm
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lollipop3
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Mich,

I understand and respect your feelings and thank you for taking the time to have this dicussion.

I hope that we at least have a better understanding of where each of us was coming from and are able to move on from this unfortunate situation.

Lolli

November 24, 2006
2:50 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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As far as I am concerned Lolli, I don't believe that your intent was to hurt any of us. Did we get hurt? Yes? Did we learn from this? I hope so. I also hope that you have as well. And by that, please know that I mean just this. You said, "Having said that....you girls are not the only ones that no longer feel "safe" here. Because of your reaction....I no longer feel safe giving feedback to you (or others) without fear of being attacked and called judgemental and being made to feel that my feedback is the reason that people feel the need to leave this site. Is that fair to me or others that are trying to support the purpose of this site?" I do hope that you don't choose to not give "contructive critisism" from here on out. That is not what I am saying. I think that your points are good and valid. I just hope that the next time, you will consider telling that person (or group) yourself, without waiting for a thread to pop up to state your feelings.

My hope for me is, be it here or elsewhere, that I can quickly look to see the possiblity that the situation may not have been done in vain. But to honestly be helpful. If I agree, great, if I don't I pray that I can find a way to address it if I feel it needs to be addressed, without hurting more people and move on.

Again, I wish you nothing but the best. I hope that you can read that with the sincerity that I feel in my heart.

Love, Mich

November 24, 2006
2:52 pm
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Just stopping by to wish all of you a good Holiday weekend and to ask "gg" if the surgery is still scheduled for the 30th? I want to be sure and pray for all to go well and that she would not be afraid.

Hope everyone gets over feeling offended. That is such a major pitfall for all of us who are recovering codependents. We get offended way too easily and tend to over-react and carry grudges, etc. Gotta be right. That's part of the control aspect of our codependency. So, even though I don't like seeing blow-ups like this one occur, maybe some good will come out of it. It might help us all see the depths of where our recovery needs to reach.

Offense separates. Acceptance bonds together. I hope we come to accept one another, without having to agree, be right or defend ourselves.

Let's make this a HEALING experience.

Love,

Ma Strong

November 24, 2006
2:58 pm
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Thanks strong, well said...yes, ma strong, 11/30

sisters, 5 min...left

November 24, 2006
2:58 pm
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Mich,

Point taken.

I did let my fear of "drama" prevent me from posting my thoughts on the "sisters" threads and only did so when someone else brought it up first. Kind of a "cowardly" way to go about it (I've always hated confrontation).....and unfortunately, the result was exactly what I feared in the first place.

From here on in, I will try to take your advice and bring up my concerns directly with the people it pertains to.

See that....no matter how far we come....there are still lessons to be learned and growing to be done 🙂

Take care,
Lolli

November 24, 2006
2:59 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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My sisters...

I do believe that I have made my decision....

I will wait until we all have the chance to have this conversation. This is all hurting me quite a bit. I love you all, and I do want to talk to all of you. I do hope to see some of you around. I am leaving at about 5:30 my time today and will be gone for a while. Will check back in a bit to see if any of you have stopped by our thread.

I love you all.

Mich

November 24, 2006
2:59 pm
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Remember some have wounded souls

Seeking support, encouragement, in a safe haven

Sensitive and caring, yet struggling
to be heard freely

We are not the same, as we all recover uniquely.....

November 24, 2006
3:00 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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LOVE YOU GG

November 24, 2006
3:56 pm
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needtoheal
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GG--

thanks for posting your thoughts...

It was well said...

----My Sister---

November 24, 2006
3:59 pm
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needtoheal
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I will be here until about 5 pm EST

Then will not be back until after 10 pm tonight

I just want you all to know that I will always be grateful that we had the chance to share our experiences with each other..

I will always have you all in my heart....

-Need

November 24, 2006
4:04 pm
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Are you saying that you are leaving Need?

November 24, 2006
4:06 pm
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needtoheal
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I don't know what I want to do.. I will wait for the Family Meeting so that we can discuss things together..

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