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Abandonment vs Codependency
July 29, 2008
8:02 am
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_anonymous
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Craig co- Thank you for the responce.

Please dont let the nasty cut throat comments Bevdee made to you get you down. This person jumped on a another thread on the support side and made it her business to get involved with an issue that was between myself and another poster. I found her post nothing more than an effort to grind me down the same way she did you to make whoever bevdee iss look better. You know what they say what comes around goes around. After reading what bevdee wrote to you I have lost all respect.

The abandonment that you suffered with your wife sounded absolutly devastating. At least it motivated you to rebuild and insulate your life. I think some are able to do that because they never get attached in the first place. They are opportunist. View people as a means to an end. When they find someone who has a better offer off they go.

How have you been dealing with the pain? Is it starting to let up?

July 29, 2008
8:14 am
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Bevdee- Have you nothing constructive to add to Craig co. post? Is your goal to one up him or provide him with the support that he so desperatly needs at this time.

Why R U so angry.

I hate to see this site go down by angry people like you who try to give other posters on this site a bunch of crap.

This site is for emotinal support for Gods sake its not a damn English Class and you are not Craigs teacher.

July 29, 2008
8:26 am
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Calm down Destiny Star, its ok. Not a big deal. People raised an issue, talked about it and moved on. Craig is OK, he didnt know about quoting and citing sources, not a big problem, now he does.

July 29, 2008
8:27 am
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Destiny Star, the portal will open again if you dont get off Vebdee and let out a 1000 years of darkness! This is what I'm talking about:

Charlie

July 29, 2008
8:28 am
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Oops, misspelled: Bevdee

July 29, 2008
8:30 am
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ohhh. I see now. Craig did sort of attribute the source, sorry. This site gives out plain text so we cant comment and quote easily. He said this:

--------------

Anyway, I have read how the effects of abandonment are akin to that of a knife wound to the heart. Leaving it highly vulnerable to infection and how it leaves scars. How abandonment has its own special kind of grief, as painful as grief over death, and just as enduring.

I hadn't come across this before but I sure can relate & appreciate what is being said.

--------------

Ok so moving on. I had a real bad night, didnt sleep long enough. ahhhhh

July 29, 2008
8:42 am
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Destiny

I hear you echoing CraigCO and myself - from posts placed a few days ago. That was resolved, though. Why are you bringing this up NOW? I understand why you might feel trippy and triggered by what I posted TO Craigco, and might feel a need to defend what he did - after all, you plagiarised Martha Stout's Sociopath material.

Had you read past those original posts, you might have read the next post I placed- society, religion, abandonment, etc.

You state you stay with your alcoholic husband because you are terrified of abandonment. The site Craigco did not attribute is a pretty good one - did you check that out yet? I have been browsing through it, because, while I am not terrified of abandonment, I don't like to be alone and sometimes I make decisions based on that. I stayed with an addict/alcoholic for too long. I'm just glad I didn't have children that got caught up in the insanity of the addiction.

July 29, 2008
11:20 am
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please learn to spell responSe...

it's hurting my head...

July 29, 2008
11:36 am
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MsGuided
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Tez wrote:
"If our 'template' match is of a personality type that is highly likely to abandon us then we will be attracted to those who are not good for us. "

My history illustrates that until i met my present partner. We met over 13 yrs ago, he doesn't fill that "template" and i was not attracted to him on a deep level. NO chemistry.
We dated a long time before becoming intimate, because he wasn't what I usually went for.

His character is on a gentler more passive plain than I desired in the past.
I liked take control type men, the opposite of my Dad.

It's like i went from the lower extreme levels of abuse, neglect and victimization to the middle ground of codependency.

When will I retire from all this work!?lol

July 29, 2008
6:31 pm
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truthBtold
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Bottom line - I think - is the MOTIVATION and INTENT of someone.

The law clearly recognizes this.

It IS what distinguishes (the lesser crime of) manslaughter versus, say a pre-meditated act.

(Jeffrey Dahmer is a good example of having all of his "cognitive skills" in order - the reason why he was found guilty.)

What is someone's INTENTIONS and MOTIVATIONS when commiting the act - be it abandonment or otherwise?

Ahhhh - that's the real kicker!

Are we simply talking about someone whom - if they knew better they would have simply DONE better...

OR conversely, are we talking about a person who purposely attempts to manipulate under the very knowing guise of a "wolf wearing sheep's clothing" and hopes to hell not to get caught or that "no one is the wiser?

Motivation and intent is key here, I should think.

(Not something easily accepted or even recognized when it comes to our own epersonal xperiences and having to actually "go against the grain" and become "politically incorrect" insomuch as to decipher the folks in our lives that have been operating upon the premise of the latter.)

Means that either:

1.) They really did give a hoot about us and had they had known better that they would have done better, without a doubt - versus...

2.) The awesome disappontment that the folks closest to us really knew what they were doing all along and didn't give two shits about us.

In any event, it really does say MORE about them - than us.

Like a snake finally outgrowing its own skin, so must we do the same.

So must we do the same.

(you know?)

When you get right down to it.

Just my opinion.

July 29, 2008
6:50 pm
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TruthBtold

On the 29-Jul-08 you wrote:

"What is someone's INTENTIONS and MOTIVATIONS when commiting the act - be it abandonment or otherwise?

Ahhhh - that's the real kicker!"

This is a critical issue of great importance.

The Venerable Master Hsin Yun writes that it is our intentions that underpin our actions that govern the nature of the karmic consequences for us.

In addition, it is our interpretation of another's intentions that governs our attitude towards their behavior.

Further, many of us, myself well and truly included, very often either consciously or unconsciously presume to think that we know the mind of the offender and can accurately judge their intentions towards us with a high degree of certainty. "Ahhhh - that's the real kicker!" - as you put it. If we attribute malicious intent to our offenders then we usually react in kind - therein compounding the negativity in the interaction. Then we imagine our own innocence and victimisation when our emotions erupt in pain. Hmmm!

This is how the venerable master Hsing Yun, the Buddhist patriarch of the Lin Chi School of Ch'an(Zen) Buddhist thought very wisely addresses this topic:

"DO NOT DWELL ON OLD WRONGS

Not dwelling on old wrongs is also a form of generosity, as well as wisdom, for when we dwell on negative memories we often become resentful or angry, and these states just lead toward more of the same. The cycle of birth and death can be seen in the large picture of one lifetime after another, but it can also be seen in the details of one life. Dwelling on old wrongs eventually leads to new wrongs, which then quickly become old wrongs in someone else's mind. Returning anger with anger, seeking revenge, brooding about the past, refusing to forgive-all of these are actions that perpetuate the cycle of suffering and pain. Most evil is caused by people react­ing negatively to the perception that someone has done them wrong. The way to stop this cycle is to take responsibility for your part in it. As much as you can, forgive and forget, and do not dwell on the people that you believe have harmed you. Not only will you benefit, but so will society in general. Spreading the Light says, "Repay anger with kindness; never dwell on old wrongs."

July 29, 2008
7:21 pm
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"As much as you can, forgive and forget, and do not dwell on the people that you believe have harmed you." - Hsing Yun(See above).

After 21 years in an intimate relationship wherein I have received a zillion cards declaring my partner's undying love for me, she as recently as 3 months ago broke up our relationship without the slightest interest or commitment to seeking counseling in order to address the problems. When approached by a mutual friend about the state of her 'heart', she simply said: "Oh that - I've moved on now." She is now dancing 7 nights a week and on her own admission is having a great time. She has simply switched off everything that I thought we had together in an instant.

My pain that I am feeling now is very much the product of my own mind. My mind races away attributing 'this way' and 'that way' of thinking to her and in no time I have convinced myself that I know with absolute certainty how she is thinking and feeling. Then I assuming a victim mentality, seeing myself as having been used for 21 years - the victim of a female confidence trickster, a sociopath in disguise. Oh this 'self-pity pot' is so uncomfortable and painful.

The truth is that my ex-partner doesn't know her own mind any better than I do. I now think that she is as much a victim of her own ignorance of her own psyche as I am of my own.

I suspect that we all attribute way to much insightfulness and intelligence to our offending partners. We erroneously think that they know and freely choose their deeply hidden 'evil' intentions and motivations. How can they - when we we barely know our own most of the time? Sure - we imagine we know our own intentions. But how often have I discovered in myself an unconscious self-serving intention being disguised by a conscious altruistic intention. Hmmm!

Ahhhh I feel so much better now - I've put the self-pity pot away for a while - at least for today anyway.

July 29, 2008
8:14 pm
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MsGuided
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To dwell on: to linger on or concentrate on..to prolong...it can denote a delay > from Websters dictionary.

To dwell for me means staying in that place of thought.It's immobility.

All of this reflection on the past, my abandonment, narcissism discussion and codependency issues serve a purpose for me today. It helps me cope better, and prevents ongoing victimization.

I can report I am not in the same place, physically, emotionally and have broken some patterns that didn't serve me well. My life is so different than what it used to be.

I never ventured too deeply into the reasons why i behaved the way I did since my therapy was cut short ( my doctor closed her practice) At that time all i had was a prescription, and the duties of a mother, plus a burgeoning relationship that kept me positive and focused.

Tez. Mentioning dwelling on past hurts, and is distructive to healing, i agree.

Letting go obviously serves the purpose of furhter growth and happiness. Releasing ourselves from the effects of this pain is the goal.

In my situation, the family stuff, my sisters death, my parents nearing death themselves I find myself grappling with emotions and unresolved mental baggage. It's happening now.
It aint over yet!

I guess this is my final journey to understand the power of my subconcious, bring it to the surface, and finally purge this poison.
My choice is subdued compassion, giving them my time, to comfort them, while they struggle with age and age related diseases. I'm not being a martyr, overdoing things ( they resist anyway and want some independence).just letting them know I haven't abandoned them.

I want to break the cycle.

You said : "I suspect that we all attribute way to much insightfulness and intelligence to our offending partners. We erroneously think that they know and freely choose their deeply hidden 'evil' intentions and motivations. How can they - when we we barely know our own most of the time?"

This is true. We do act out of our subselves, subconcious, by habit, and most of us are unaware, or unable to change what we do until we suffer great personal loss or struggle in relationships. Personal loss happens anyway, but loss due to our own ignorance, actions, or inaction is what gets us down on ourselves.

I'm grateful, again, I say this a lot, for this site and it's members sharing and taking the journey deep into the thick. For the websites, quotes and references.

Once and for all I want to smash what remains of the "dwelling" down, look back to it's rotting colapsed boards, and never be drawn into it again. Never to rebuild, or linger...but to start anew.

I just hope my partner can do the same.

((Tez)))...i feel for your loss. So many years invested, and here you are,aiming to take the high road.

Be well! ;o)

July 30, 2008
12:17 am
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Once again I'd like to share a quote from Tolle. This is in relation to living in the moment, which is all we have. We tend to live either in the past or future, treat life as an obstacle ( getting something done in order to obtain thus and so) or an enemy:

"Do I want the present moment to be my friend or my enemy? The present moment is inseparable from life, so you are really deciding what kind of relationship you want to have with life. Once you have decided you want the present moment to be your friend, it is up to you to make the first move: Become friendly and soon you will see the results. Life becomes friendly toward you; people become helpful, circumstances cooperative. One decision changes your entire reality. But that one decision you have to make again and again and again--until it becomes natural to live in such a way."

I hope you all don't mind that I quote Tolle so much. But I find him so enlightening that I want to share.

Peace.

Hep.

July 30, 2008
1:55 pm
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Tez, why you gotta call this Hsing Yun guy "venerable master".

Its like saying "prophet Muhammad".

I wanna be called "his highness, the Venerable Lord of the incredibly sweet and joyful Candy Mountain."

check this out if you dont know what i'm talking about:

charlie

July 30, 2008
2:27 pm
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MsGuided
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guest_guest....er I mean Charlie's ever more wary cousin...if you don't want to go in the cave, must you spray graffiti on it all the time?

I kinda like the colours you choose tho...pretty creative!;0)

August 1, 2008
4:39 am
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CraigCo
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Guest_guest,

>I wanna be called "his highness, the Venerable Lord of the incredibly sweet and joyful Candy Mountain."

Too funny!

I got a kick outta the vid.

August 1, 2008
7:05 pm
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on my way
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Wow this thread says so much!

I am getting something like a repeat relationship (one that seems to mimic a familiar relationship from childhood, the ones we don't seem to have control over) is an 'emotional identification' that is subliminal.

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