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Time to step to the plate people
December 16, 2005
11:00 am
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overcome
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I think I need to express a few things. Not sure if it will even make sense, but I want to put it out there:

I read post after post after post about how one's significant other did not do this or that and how this person and that person is broken hearted and so on.

Well, maybe some of us are just meant to be alone. I mean people look SOOOOOOO hard to find a companion, someone to make them happy. But maybe that is not there for some people. I see so many people UNHAPPY that are together. Why bother? I am done with all that. I think I had a fear of being alone and then, boom, I found out that it is not so bad. Actually it is liberating. We are all adults on here. People, it is time to pick yourself up by the bootstraps, stop letting this person or persons crap on you and stand up for yourselves- like a confident and able adult.

So what Christmas is coming....yes, it is a holiday. But December 25 is nothing more than the day after December 24 and nothing more than the day before Deember 26. The sun will rise the day after Christmas. No one ever dies from being unattached on a holiday.

I guess I am sick of being down over crap. I am sick of being the "bigger person" and getting crapped on because of it. I am a man and I will stand up like a man. If I feel something or need to say something, I am gonna do it. I guess that is my New Year's resolution.

For those of you that are hurting, I am sorry. But if you are going back for more from your significant other, you are allowing it. Have enough self respect and enough dignity and belief in yourself to do what you know needs to be done!...especially if you have children- be a positive example to them. Don't have them grow up saying my ___ was too weak to do what was right for us.

Ok, I am done. Everyone have a good day.

December 16, 2005
11:06 am
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CAMER
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WOO HOO well said...and i know the feeling, b4 with bad relationships i used to think i was the "victim" for putting up with HIS crap, but no, i was really a "volunteer" cuz i chose to stay in the bad relationship.

(((camer)))

December 16, 2005
11:20 am
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brownie
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I can also agree with you overcome,i have been in a bad marriage for a long long time and i used to be afraid to be alone but in some ways i knew i had it coming from the time i was a teen.I always got in and out of relationships,always taking it seriously and now i am paying for it.

I have been alone for 2 years now which is hard to believe.The loneliness gets to me from time to time but it feels like at times it does not affect me as much as it did this year and last year.

I do know that 2006 will be changes in everything,especially with my relationship i am getting a divorce and start to date again.There is life after divorce.So i will enjoy it and get myself together and start meeting positive and healthy people.

There is gonna be NEW BEGINNINGS for me and my kids for 2006.

December 16, 2005
12:43 pm
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readyforachange
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If I knew how to send a standing ovation out here in cyberspace, I'd do it! That was awesome, and I sure needed to hear it. Married for 17 years, and everyone thought my life was a fairy tale. People even said it. What do they know? After 8 years or more of agony, I filed for divorce when I started seeing my codependent behaviors in my daughter. So, you are right...I needed to stand up and say stop and to be a positive example for my kids, who are now 15 and 12. My ex is still attempting to make life miserable, but I won't allow it. And my kids, I hope, have learned the lesson that you do not have to accept other people's bad behavior over and over again. I hope I've taught them at least that much.

Thanks for the validation....I read this immediately after I read an email from my ex telling me that I don't know how to do anything but bitch. This is response to my request that he call his son, whom he has not spoken to in 3 weeks.

And you have a good day, too!!!

December 16, 2005
1:32 pm
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overcome
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I will tell you something else. I spent almost 3 frigging years being the bigger person during my separation and divorce. My X turned my children against me, called child services on me (all made up and unfounded and eventually dropped) and basically did whatever she could to hurt me. I even heard my kids say things to me that I never thought they would say.

The whole time I was the "BIGGER PERSON" and never spoke a bad word about the X.

You know what, the hell with that. She is a piece of crap and I will treat her like nothing more. I am done playing nice. This is my life and being the bigger person did nothing but hurt me. I know what you are thinking, "oh you can't do that". Why not? They hurt us and go outside the lines to get revenge or whatever on us....screw that. I am done pretending!

December 16, 2005
1:42 pm
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Shaney
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Kick ASS, overcome! You couldn't be more right. Thanks - Shaney

December 16, 2005
2:03 pm
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kathygy
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overcome,

I can understand how you feel reading one post after another about someone involved in a destructive relationship and yet won't walk away.

However, that does not mean that there is anything wrong with wanting to get married or wanting a significant other. Yes, there many unhappy couples but that is because they are wounded people who don't love therselves. This is not a reason not to get into a committed relationhsip. I beleive it is very possible to have a happy, loving relationship.

I think the issue is that to develop a happy and loving relationship requires two whole healthy people who have worked through their childhood wounds or are committed to working through them and have learned to love theriselves.

You sound a little bitter from your experience but that doesn't mean its everyone's experience or everyone's future.

I don't understand what you mean when you say you got 'crapped on' for being the bigger person. Can you be more specific? I suspect there's more to this than you are telling. I sense that you are leaving something important out. What do you mean you were being the bigger person? What did you do?

If someone trully loves theirself they do not allow anyone to 'crap' over them. In fact, they would not choose a person who would do that in the first place.

I tell people all the time on this web site to walk away from destructive and abusive relationships but sometimes someone is so very wounded from their childhood that they need a lot of help to realize they don't deserve to be treated poorly.

I find that some people have so thoroughly internalized the message that they deserve abuse that it requires therapy to heal from that message.

What I am saying is that I believe it is unrealistic to expect everyone to be able to walk way from a bad relationship without a lot of growth and support.

December 16, 2005
2:09 pm
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overcome
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My point is that if you come here and tell us how bad the relationship is, the person is abusive, cheats, on drugs and you get the response to leave and you know you should leave.........well, if you keep going back, you deserve what you get.

Grow the F up, stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop looking for someone to become something that they will never become and move on.

Thats my advice! Take it or leave it!

kathyguy, I'm not giong to get into specifics of waht happened to me. All I will say is that trying to always do the right thing while facing someone that would stop at nothing to poison my children did nothing but hurt me.

Deseperate times call for desperate measures!

December 16, 2005
2:10 pm
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"Have enough self respect and enough dignity and belief in yourself to do what you know needs to be done!...""

I know but this is hard to achieve for someone with not-high-enough self-esteem like me.

December 16, 2005
2:14 pm
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If it's that cut and dry, NOBODY would be in an abusive or bad relationship, they would drop that person like a hot potato the first sign of danger.

But that's not the case.

That's like saying to a fat person - just eat healthy and exercise and you will be thin. It's not always that simple.

And it's not one size fits all.

And it's hurtful to imply that it is that simple.

December 16, 2005
2:17 pm
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Anonymous
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Also like telling someone they deserved to be raped cuz they were flirty and then said no or dressed too provocatively or were in the wrong neighborhood.

Or telling someone they deserved to be mugged cuz they were in a bad neighborhood and should have known better.

This does NOTHING to help the victim at all. We all make bad choices, but we do not DESERVE bad things to happen to us because we made bad choices. And sometimes the solution isn't as simple as "leave"...there could be alot of factors, including money, housing and support.

December 16, 2005
2:20 pm
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kathygy
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overcome,

"if you keep going back, you deserve what you get"

I strongly disagree with this statement. No one EVER deserves abuse no matterwhat. I beleive people who are wounded need to hear this over and over again. Its not their fault.

Some people grow up believing they deserve abuse because that is what their parents made them beleive.

Where is your compassion for someone who was trashed by their parents and therefore believes that's all they deserve? I find it very sad that so many people have been badly hurt by their parents.

I feel for these people and do my best to love, support and encourage them to love theirselves because that is what the reality is of what they deserve. Not scolding.

Are you this hard on yourself too?

December 16, 2005
2:31 pm
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gingerleigh
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It's ok to have compassion for people who allow themselves to be abused over and over. Pity, perhaps not. But definitely compassion. Everyone has a reason for the way that they are, and the best way to support and help folks who are stuck in a cycle of abuse is to remind them that they are worthy of more and better, and that ultimately they don't have to stay in situations that are unhealthy and harmful to them. But if you are hearing the same hurtful message for 20 years and you grow up believing it, it's completely unrealistic to expect that hearing that alternate healthy message once or twice or fifty times is going to sink in right away.

December 16, 2005
2:43 pm
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kasie919
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overcome:

At first when i read your thread i was going to refuse to respond,
But if I am ever going to change and take a stand it may as well start here:
Exactly why did you come to this site?
was it not for support and help?
I AM oneof those people you are talking to, telling me to step the f-up..
But let me ask you this,
have u ever had your jaw broken by a person who tells you hey love you? how about your nose,your ribs,your collar bone? how about your pride? has that ever been out to hell?
Im not here to claim pity!! Im here for help, im here BECAUSE i KNOW i need to CHANGE, and all these abuses did not come from the same,its been several..
Im not here to sayi am staying and thats the way it will be..
Youhave children, do you know how it feels when your other half says if you leave me i will burn down the house and take u with me...????
do you know what its like to wake up everyday and cry looking into the mirror thinking "my god" "im such a looser""??
Do you know what a heart feels like after catching your best friend f-ing your husband?? not once but more than i can count..
I am not asking you for sympathy or pity, im asking you, for help, help me learn how you got out,how you avoided the pain every day?
You dont know me, im a very kind compasionate person, i put every one above me, i do for my family and friends first..That is how i was raised...
My Mother took her life because of people telling her she was nothing all the time, she took her life because of all the guilt and pain she lived with..
She could not walk out!!!
She loved her kids and her family !!
until she got so sick she couldnt take it any more.!!
Is this what you prefer people do??
Shall i just go take my life because I cant step up all at once??
I have a beautiful little boy, and i will be damned to have him grow up and be heartless, and unble to feel love..
I have made my first step,
Ive asked for help, and Im taking it.
for the first time in my life, I am GETTING Help,
So i am sorry if im not stepping up fast enough for you..
But you know, I still care about you, I understand your pain,
I have a heart and compassion, and i can take anything any one says to me now, because I am able to walk away!!

December 16, 2005
2:56 pm
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kasie919
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I have one other thing to say,

Your angry, not with me, your angry because of the pain your ex has bestowed upon you, Im sorry she did those things to you, But i will never do that to my son, I didnt do it with my daughter, her father just turned his back on her and walked away,I did everything i could to keep him involved, I NEVER said a bad word about him..EVER..
Shes 20 now, and knows all about him and has gotten one hell of a dose of reality..

Please dont think we are all useless and cannot step up..
we have hurt and pain thats been here for a long long time, and I cannot beleive you would want to hurt me any more than I already do..

December 16, 2005
3:16 pm
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exoticflower
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I have to agree here with Kathygy and Ali. Not under any circumstances does anyone ever deserve or ask for abuse. They may tollerate abuse, may lend themselves to it, but abuse is wrong and the abuser is doing something very wrong regardless. I do think it is wonderful, overcome, that you are in a place now that you feel strong and empowered and ok with the holidays and your relationships desolve, and that you feel so healed from the abusive treatment you rfecieved. I do think, however, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with others not being where you are at, and that where others are at, the holidays being a difficult time full of memories, is also a wonderful place to be, all part of someone elses proccess. We are all different places, and I applaud you yours butr I have to say that I do not find it accurate or kind at all to say that people should 'get over it' or imply that other places someone, myself included this season, is wrong or not dealing becasue they are not wher eyou are at. Everyone has a right to live and experiance things in their own way, including, but not limited to yourself. I AM stepping up to the plate this year, learning to cope and allowing myself the saddness I need even though it may be hard, and there is nothing at all wrong with that. Allowing yourself your pain is just as difficult and worthy a part of the healing proccess as is getting past it.

December 16, 2005
3:38 pm
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lita
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overcome, I agree with you , you took the words right out of my mouth. Iam going through a divorce right now has you know my x never wanted my sons in the first place. But because he knows they mean the world to me he is trying to take them away from me. Has if i didnt go through enough with him over the last 13years. Iam just sick to death of his games. Me just like you have never said anything bad to the children about there dad. They have eyes they seen him in action. He just wont stop untill he makes my life a living hell. He would rather i stay with him and continued to let him abuse me and my children. Iam sorry , I didnt mean to ramble on. your always in my prayers.

December 16, 2005
3:38 pm
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Overcome, I understand your feelings of being "crapped on" for being the bigger person. I have walked in your shoes. But please hear this...doing the right thing is ALWAYS the best way, even when it doesn't "LOOK" that way at the time.

I believe it is always best to take the high road, especially when children are involved. I don't know what has happened in your situation, but in my own, I had one child that rebelled and took his frustrations out on me. There was a time when he told me he hated me. It broke my heart. But he was just going thru his own turmoil (our divorce, starting high school, puberty, etc.) He was also the child who used to throw his dad up in my face and threaten to go live with him. During all that time, I bit my tongue and NEVER said a bad word about their father to them. You see, during our marriage, I had always "protected" them from their father, and made him look "better" to them than he really was. I wanted them to have a good relationship with him, so I kept his secrets and smoothed over his messes. And guess what? I haven't had to say a word. They have figured him out pretty good now. I'm proud of my boys (all 3 of them). They are well-adjusted and wiser for the struggle. And are gonna be MUCH better men than their father ever was.

Occassionally now, I chuckle when one of them says something about their father. Like it's NEWS to me! *ha*

Anyway, I understand your frustration. It's hard to take the high road, but it is sooooooooo worth it. Hang in there. Your children will come around. Just keep doing the right thing!

Love, plz~

December 17, 2005
9:34 am
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I think I'm glad my pc was down yesterday. I might have gone off and not had the time to think about all said here.

Overcome:

I am sorry for your pain. I dealt w/ the evil x that badmouthed me to my kids and yet I didn't say bad things about him. The kids know. It sure gives them an opening to play one parent against the other in a situation like this, but they do know what's goin on. Do you truly feel that coz she was a b**** and you were the "bigger person" that the kids thought more of you? They kids see. Let me tell you, the kids see. They see the "bigger person" and they know who is their stability by your actions. Don't throw that good part of your relationship w/ your kids away. I would like to put a little bug in your ear tho... If you feel she turned the kids against you.. take a good hard look, I'd almost bet there is a bit of mom v. dad goin on w/ the kids, specially if they are older.

As for "steppin up to the plate"... I think everyone wants to step up. You have heard a lot of good examples above of why they cannot just yet. In most circumstances I agree that a person can choose to divorce and just get it over w/ instead of staying in an unhealthy relationship. And I agree that staying in an "unhappy" marriage can harm children. But, when in an "abusive" relationship it is not nearly as easy. There are self-esteem problems. There are financil problems; what person wants to take their kids and live on the streets. Working in the law office I saw so many girls come thru that had NOWHERE to go.. their own families would not even help them. Now how sad is that. There is also the fact they have had things ground into their heads that they no longer feel they can. Well spoken of above. There are also situations where a person cannot leave unless they want to chance death. These are the minority, but they are there. I think one above spoke of this.

I like what you had to say Overcome. Great motivation, great incentives; just not always that simple. Kathy summed it all up so very well... they need love, support and encourage and they do not deserve the abuse they endure. Empowerment is what we give here. Not scolding.

I wish you the best and each one stuck in an unhappy marriage. When the time is right ya'll will know when it's time to leave. Sometimes it takes some healing before getting the courage to "step up to the plate". I'm glad you found your way out, and I'm glad you cared enough to come and give a boost to some.

December 17, 2005
10:40 am
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I agree with Mama. Children are much smarter than we give them credit for!! I have been divorced from my husband for almost 4 years and my ex was very bitter towards me in the beginning. He ALWAYS "bad-mouthed" me to the kids' (they reported back to me the terrible things he'd say)... I simply said "That is your Dads' opinion. I wish he wouldn't have talked to you guys about those things. I'm sure it makes you feel badly." I never got into the back and forth, push and pull, "Oh yeah???? Well, your Dad did THIS!!!!" No one-upmanship. I just let it go...

I don't feel that I was taken advantage of or walked all over by being the "bigger person". I did it for the children and I don't regret it!

Sometimes you need to swallow your pride for the sake of the "greater good".

Today, things are much better. We all have a very peaceful existence. I'm not sure it would have been that way if I had engaged in any rash, emotional exchanges with him in order to defend myself. If I had to do it all over again... I'd do it the same way.

Just a different perspective...

Peace,

TC

December 18, 2005
11:12 am
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overcome
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No, I do not think that what I was saying is the same as someone that was mugged or raped.

However, if someone was mugged or raped and then went back to the person to be mugged and raped again....well, then they deserved it.

Alicat compared it to a heavy person simply stopping eating. Well, eating is part of life. Everyone has to eat. Therefore the heavy person must eat to some degree everyday. They must interact with food everyday. The abused person does not need to interact with the abuser....tehy choose to go back for more!

Man, there are sooooo many people on this site feeling sorry for themselves....boo-F'ing-hoo. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN MAKE IT BETTER. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN MAKE A CHANGE. If you keep getting off at the same stop day after day on the tain of life, you will end up at the same spot. Maybe you fear the unkown. Maybe you dont have the courage to get off at the next stop. Bottom line is you will never know what the next stop brings until you have the BALLS to take that chance. All the whining and crying and sympathy from people on this site will NEVER change anything until you make that change!!!!

Not trying to be mean. Just telling the cold, hard truth that is very often lacking on this site!

Kasie- Unless all those bones were broken the first time you were beaten, you should have never gone back. If you went back, after having someone break your bones, especially with a little boy involved, then you knew the risks invovled. You went back into the fire and therefore got burnt...again!

And someone said what about people who were crapped on by their parents and now think it is all they deserve. All you deserve? Please....grow up and stop blaming your problems on your parents. You are an adult now. Its time to act like one and take responsibility for your actions.

December 18, 2005
11:50 am
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exoticflower
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"All the whining and crying and sympathy from people on this site will NEVER change anything until you make that change!!!! "

Actually, what that sypathy is called is VALIDATION, which is an important part of re-building the ability to trust yourself and re=gain the confidence that is stripped away often times to a severe and debilitating degree by time one exits a truly abusive realationship. It is vital to rebuild confidence after abuse to be ABLE to step off at the next stop.

You also said "Man, there are sooooo many people on this site feeling sorry for themselves....boo-F'ing-hoo. ".

What I see here is a lot of self pitty on your half that is revieling itself in anger and hostility. It is out and out mean and degrading. People are entitled to feel pain, if you have your own issues, I would suggest you address those rather than picking on other people--it's easier to insult others than look at yourself, I know, but this sort of agressive downtalk is very unhealthy and degrading to people. You seem to have an anger issue right now I would suggest you seek some help for if it causes you to speak insultingly and depriciatively to other people. It seems as though the abused is becoming the abuser.

December 18, 2005
11:57 am
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exoticflower
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((((kasie)))), don't listen to this, please. Sometimes people say things to hurt others becasue they are hurting themselves. When you believe people who tell you you are stupid/wrong/flawed/deserving of abuse it can make you feel like you need to go back to the abusive relationship, that you deserve no better--that is an out and out lie. When people say that someone deserves to be abused, it is becasue they feel like THEY deserved the abuse they got or are ashamed of their own human mistakes. Others anger should not hurt you right now, you just focus on what you know--you should not have been abused. You did not deserve the abuse. Abusing others is SICK. WRONG. Under ANY circumstances. And so is condoning abuse or the perverse notion that people "ask for it", imho, as well as the opinion of most mental health professionals. DOn't let someone elses issues be yours. you're doing great hon.

December 18, 2005
12:03 pm
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kathygy
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overcome,

Being wounded by one's parents is a very real and serious issue. Obviously you lack total awareness and understanding of that issue.

Becoming aware of those wounds is not blaming your parents. Its knowing what happened to you and having that knowledge does two things. It helps one find compassion for theirselve rather than self-hatred and it also lets someone know what they have to work on to heal those wounds.

I don't see people feeling sorry for themselves here. I see people who have been very badly hurt in childhood who are reaching out for help, for understanding, for love. Sometimes its not such a bad thing to feel sorry for one's self.

Even if someone returns to a robber does not mean they deserve to be robbed again. No one ever, ever deserves to be abused no matterwhat.

Your belief that someone deserves to be abused if they go back to the abuser is a very destructive thing to say for people who are suffering from abuse and beleive they deserve it. They don't!

This makes me wonder how you were abused in your very own childhood if you believe this.

I don't know why you are coming here, other than to judge people and critize people. Please read the guidelines. This site is intented to be supportive. We are here to grow and find a better way.

My feedback to you is that you sound like a very badly wounded person who has no love for yourself or for anyone. I suspect you were judged as harshly by your parents as you judge people here.

I suspect you were not made to feel very important by your parents so you need to feel superior by putting others down.

Again, I see zero compassion in you for others. This tells me you have zero compassion for yourself.

Look at yourself. They way you talk here only serves to push people away from you. Is that what you want?

You strike me as a bitter and ice cold person. I find nothing of value in your words for people who are working very hard to live a better life.

You might ask yourself why you are so very hard on people. Why is it so important to you that people see the world the way you do?

Maybe you are crying out for help by this continued need to come here and demand that people live up to your expectations. What about your own pain?

I hear a lot of pain coming from you. I hear a lot of suffering. Why not talk about that? Wouldn't that help you more than putting others down? What's the real issue with you? What do you need to feel better about yourself and life? Or do you care?

December 18, 2005
12:05 pm
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kathygy
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one more thing, you may not realize this but you are being very abusive to people here who already have suffered from too much abuse and don't need more. Being critical and judgemental is abusive. You might read up on abuse.

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