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the world is flat & dinosaurs & humans lived at the same time
May 5, 2009
6:43 pm
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bevdee
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Hey Miss MaryP

Yeah, I disappeared for a while. I've always been able to log in, I've just been spending days at a time either working in the metroplex or out in the serious backwoods, communing with nature, learning to listen to different sounds. I'm so glad to see you are still alive and kickin.

You say this - "Shame and self-loathing make for a horrible prison, a hell if you will." And I had this thought - religious teachings and its message bearers create this hell on earth, perpetuating the shame and self-loathing, *without god I am nothing, a miserable sinner, going to hell* See the quotes Terriberry provided above. :~)

May 5, 2009
7:37 pm
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marypoppins
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(((Shaney)))

Thank you for sharing your Catholic "experience". 25+ years after Catholic school, I stopped by the school on my way to grad school in another state and sat in the parking lot just staring at the convent. I wanted so much to go in and talk to Sister ______. Figured she was probably dead, so I didn't knock.

I'm glad you found a good place to be. Thanks for your inspiring words.

(((Bevdee)))

Your nature studies sound wonderful. I'm enjoying the outdoors myself - spring brings hope. Didn't you mention a while back a man accompanying you on your outdoor adventures?

Yep. That shame, fear, and self-loathing that brings a lot of people to religion is perpetuated, veiled as devotion. If we don't deal with it and heal, we're very likely to turn it loose on someone else. All part of using religion as a drug.

Take care of yourself! Glad you're posting again.

Mary

May 5, 2009
10:06 pm
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glittered when he walked
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So it's OK to smote children who aren't yours? cuz some of those neighbor kids are kinda nervy. I don't think I could bring myself to torture them for not worshiping me tho..not even for a second let alone all eternity...etc. ad infinitum...ad nauseum.

May 5, 2009
10:13 pm
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glittered when he walked
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God doesn't frighten me, but many of his followers often do.

May 5, 2009
10:15 pm
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marypoppins
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Glittered,
What happens to your students if they don't worship you? Probably doesn't happen too often, but when it does...
Mary

May 5, 2009
10:21 pm
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marypoppins
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thanks to you, I can't get that misfit song the dentist elf sings out of my head

May 5, 2009
10:45 pm
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marypoppins
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Glittered,
Kroika hinted that you were an educator of some sort. Not trying to freak you out or anything.

May 5, 2009
11:00 pm
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bevdee
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Glitterwd, MaryP, now I am thinking of Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer, and all those broken toys at the North Pole. I sure thought Santa was a prick to Rudolph.

May 5, 2009
11:31 pm
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on my way
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Ok, y'all got your eyebrows singed and your finger tips blistered yet?

TERRIBERRY:

WHERE did you get the information that you posted above? Take a listen to my church's sermons at:

http://www.shadowhillsbaptistchurch.org

(I think that's it....but we are doing the 40 Days of LOVE, take a listen, you can click on the sermons on the right of the page. Some of the stuff you posted above...reminds me of some of the condemnation I used to experience as a child in church, before I became a Christian. Don't mean to attack you, but am not sure I understand the spirit of why you posted it. Some people have lived with so much condemnation of 'religion' that they don't want to hear hellfire and damnation, I mean I now that I don't, and I understand it. But sensitivity is KEY, right? You speak the truth, but delivery is SO IMPORTANT!!)

May 5, 2009
11:31 pm
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on my way
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Ok, y'all got your eyebrows singed and your finger tips blistered yet?

TERRIBERRY:

WHERE did you get the information that you posted above? Take a listen to my church's sermons at:

http://www.shadowhillsbaptistchurch.org

(I think that's it....but we are doing the 40 Days of LOVE, take a listen, you can click on the sermons on the right of the page. Some of the stuff you posted above...reminds me of some of the condemnation I used to experience as a child in church, before I became a Christian. Don't mean to attack you, but am not sure I understand the spirit of why you posted it. Some people have lived with so much condemnation of 'religion' that they don't want to hear hellfire and damnation, I mean I now that I don't, and I understand it. But sensitivity is KEY, right? You speak the truth, but delivery is SO IMPORTANT!!)

May 5, 2009
11:33 pm
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on my way
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HA! couldn't resist...I got #100 for posts! tee hee!

May 6, 2009
7:45 am
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It No Longer Matters
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I wasn't raised Catholic and did not attend Catholic school. Indenpendent Methodist was hellish enough. My experience mirrors others.

Bitsy

May 6, 2009
11:37 am
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bevdee
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There is no hell, unless it's tent revival in Southern Oklahoma in August.

May 6, 2009
1:19 pm
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lollipop3
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"...tent revival in Southern Oklahoma in August."

Yup. That sure sounds like hell to me!

May 6, 2009
1:25 pm
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Hepburn
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LOLOLOLO, bevdee.

I read that there is a hell. But it's VERY small. Only a select few get the honors. And I don't remember what the "book" said happened there exactly, something about having to re-live what they did over and over for eternity. Something like that. Which makes more sense then being in fire for eternity. I do remember it mentioned that there wasn't any "fire" there. Since "fire" is used metaphorically anyway, and a Soul is not a physical thing, so that makes sense too.

May 6, 2009
3:50 pm
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glittered when he walked
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pffft...I can't even get my dog to worship me.

May 6, 2009
4:19 pm
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bereft
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as much as i dislike interrupting the wishful-thinking party, a few points need to be clarified. Hell is a place for both body and soul. when a nonbeliever dies, his soul leaves the presence of God, and goes into hell. then, in the future, there will be a resurrection of the bodies of the damned, and at that time the condemned will be given a transcendent body so they can be thrown into the lake of fire. Christians will also be resurrected at that time, and be given a transcendent, glorified body to enable them to live eternally in heaven.

those who are condemned to hell will be raised and given new bodies for the sole purpose of being punished forever in those bodies (Jn. 5:25-29; Rev. 20:11-15). that's why Jesus said, "...fear not them who kill the body...but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Mt. 10:28). the destruction of hell is continual and forever.

some people think that hell will only be experienced by the inner consciousness. but hell will be experienced by the body, too. transcendent, eternal bodies are going to be given to the damned; they will suffer in those bodies forever.

some people wonder if there is literal fire in hell. since both the saved and unsaved are resurrected to eternal life with literal bodies (Rev. 20:11-15), it follows that the fire in hell is literal and eternal. we don't know what kind of fire exactly, but it will be terrible.

okay, party on.

grace and peace

May 6, 2009
5:42 pm
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marypoppins
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Bereft, and TB,

Appreciate the "concern", but please, feel free to stop posting on this thread. Your attempts to "persuade" with quotes from the Bible and other religious propaganda are really not persuasive at all. There's nothing I can do to stop either of you from posting on this thread, but you're wasting your time. No one has expressed much interest in what you have to say, so who are you posting for?

That's great that you've found what works for you. I'm sure that if anyone has any questions for you or TB, he/she will not hesitate to begin a thread to you.

I'm done with your bitter, angry, judgemental rants.

Lay off. Both of you.

Sincerely,

Mary

May 6, 2009
5:55 pm
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marypoppins
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Even the other Christians on this thread are not appreciative of your posts, so please, enough.

You go your way, and I'll go mine.

Thank you,

Mary

May 6, 2009
6:14 pm
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Terriberry
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Mary,

Your rants, and constant insults to my religion are offensive. I will contuine to post and defend my faith.
Just as you contuine to post and defend your views on life. Is this not an open forum for discussion ?

Simply do not direct your comments to me, and I will not longer do the same to you.

But as far as voicing my beliefs I have the same right as you. I will contuine to do that just as I am sure you will.

Again, I have not asked you to accepted my faith. I have simply said it's your choice.

Thank you,

tb

May 6, 2009
6:23 pm
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marypoppins
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Seems you haven't read all the posts on this thread, TB. I have not made any insults to "your" religion. In fact, I have thanked some of the Christians on this thread for sharing. However, you and Bereft are personally very offensive with your posts and your condemnation of those who don't believe what you do.

I've stated very clearly that my issue is with those who beat others over the head for not believing in what they do and warning them that they'll go to hell, for example.

You should perhaps re-read the entire thread, and you'll understand that your posts are not welcome here. You've made your point. That's great that you have found what works for you, but I believe that even On My Way, another Christian, has questioned your "tactics".

If you'd like to "boast" about your love for Jesus, perhaps you should start another thread. I and others here are entitled to believe what we believe and be comfortable with it. No one is telling you that you should stop believing in Jesus or the Bible. I'm sorry that you feel threatened by those who don't agree with you.

Mary

May 6, 2009
6:24 pm
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Terriberry
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Befert,

Thanks for posting those verses. I also appericate your clarifcation, on this doctrine.

God's Best to you,

tb

May 6, 2009
6:25 pm
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bevdee
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Party over here!!!!

Again, Bereft's post is taken from this work by John MacArthur. Compare to bereft's fragmented copy/paste.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/M.....sg2304.htm

"B. The Description of Hell

2. THE DETAILS OF PUNISHMENT

Hell is a place of unrelieved torment for both body and soul. When a nonbeliever dies, his soul leaves the presence of God, and goes into hell. His soul probably doesn't go into the lake of fire that all unbelievers will be thrown into after the Great White Throne Judgment (because a transcendent body would be required to endure the fire), but it still goes to a place of torment (as was illustrated by the rich man who died and went to hell in Luke 16).

When an unsaved person dies, his soul descends into hell. In the future, there will be a resurrection of the bodies of the damned, and at that time the condemned will be given a transcendent body so they can be thrown into the lake of fire. Christians will also be resurrected at that time, and be given a transcendent, glorified body to enable them to live eternally in heaven. Those who are condemned to hell will be raised and given new bodies for the sole purpose of being punished forever in those bodies (Jn. 5:25-29; Rev. 20:11-15). That's why Jesus said, "...fear not them who kill the body...but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Mt. 10:28). Some people think that hell will only be experienced by the inner consciousness. But hell will be experienced by the body, too. Transcendent, eternal bodies are going to be given to the damned; they will suffer in those bodies forever. The bodies men have now wouldn't be able to endure hell because they would be consumed in a moment.

How do we know that the damned will have eternal bodies for hell? First, the Lord said that hell is a place "where their worm dieth not" (Mk. 9:44, 46, 48). When a body is put into a grave, worms begin to consume it. Once the body is consumed, the worms die. But in hell, the worms that consume the bodies will never die because the bodies will never be totally consumed. In other words, the Lord was saying that the unrelieved torment of the body will go on forever in hell. Second, the Lord described hell as a place where "the fire is not quenched" (Mk. 9:44, 46, 48). A fire always dies out when there is nothing to give it fuel. But because the fire in hell will never run out of fuel, it will never die out. Hell will be a place of unrelieved torment for both body and soul."

This MacArthur dude sounds fearful, too. That's alot of adrenaline to get addicted to, isn't it?

May 6, 2009
6:26 pm
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marypoppins
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And you're mistaken, TB, when you call my posts "rants". I've been posting very honestly about my beliefs and my personal experiences, and I'll continue to do so. I'm engaged in a conversation with others on this thread. Not sure what you're doing.

May 6, 2009
6:43 pm
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marypoppins
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Maybe I'll start another thread with lyrics from Imagine.

I was thinking this morning, while listening to the news about the woman who has recently undergone a face transplant, what a fine example it was of intelligence, love, dedication, and bravery. A man destroys his wife's face with a gunshot, a cowardly man, and now with the help of brilliant doctors, new technology, and a caring and devoted team, this woman has a face again! She can smell and eat solid food. Her spirit and courage have motivated all involved. That is heaven on earth, in my opinion.

Mary

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