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the world is flat & dinosaurs & humans lived at the same time
April 20, 2009
2:48 pm
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marypoppins
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I have a very important book that says the world is flat and dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Everybody should get this book. This book contains information from a really important person. Well, she didn't actually write the book herself, but the people who wrote it are pretty sure that's what she wants to say. There's a whole bunch of other stuff in that book, too, that you should believe if you want to be saved from science and logic and common sense. I know my life is a lot easier since I stopped using my brain.

Anyway, if you don't believe the world is flat and that dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time and the other stuff in that important book, well, you're probably going to go to a really bad place when you die - a place that's like a zillion times worse than junior high. Oh, and you'll burn and suffer for eternity.

It's your choice.

(one of the Marys)

April 20, 2009
3:10 pm
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LOL! I couldn't have said it any better...

April 20, 2009
3:27 pm
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You know, the Bible isn't a bad way to believe. I was reading a murder mystery book this past weekend and the author happens to be Jewish. A line in the book stood out for me. "Religion is good for good people and bad for bad people."

A well educated Bible scholar can take any verse in the Bible and twist it to what they want it to say. I believe at the time the Bible was written homosexuality was a sin. God was telling his people to be fruitful and multiply. Two people of the same sex cannot naturally procreate. In today's times we have almost over populated the earth. What happens between a homosexual and God is their business and not mine. I will glady stand up and call myself a Christian. I am all for the literal interpretation of Matthew: Judge not lest ye be so judged.

Then there is my standard argument. What IF I am right and you are wrong--What IF you are right and I am wrong...well if I AM wrong then I haven't missed out on too much. But if I am right, I have gained heaven.

Peace be with you.

Bitsy

April 20, 2009
4:33 pm
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Hepburn
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Bitsy,

I have re-read your post several times.

You said: >Then there is my standard argument. What IF I am right and you are wrong--What IF you are right and I am wrong...well if I AM wrong then I haven't missed out on too much. But if I am right, I have gained heaven.< Are you saying that if people don't believe what you believe (you're interpretation of the bible), they won't go to heaven? Just curious. Hep

April 20, 2009
4:48 pm
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marypoppins
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religion is really good for people who want to call themselves GOOD and others BAD

according to "your" (insert person's name) religion, you may go to heaven, but according to another person's religion, you may go to hell

good luck to us all!! hope each of us chooses the RIGHT DOOR on Let's Make a Deal! (old game show reference)

yet another Mary

April 20, 2009
5:13 pm
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Mary,

Yes "RELIGION" is as you say above, and most people stop there. Religion is what you should avoid, Chritianity is another subject. It is about relationship with God...then everything else falls int place. "Love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, and love others as yourself". So much misunderstanding when it comes to religion, per say. Christianity, with its basis in relationship with Jesus Christ, is Not Religion. Look at NotReligion.com for an example.
I can't deal with "religion" but a personal elationship with Jesus Christ changes lives and changes the world.

April 20, 2009
5:34 pm
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All I can do is share my personal story.

I was raised in a Christian school (kindergarten through 11th grade) Not everyone there behaved in the most "Christian" manner. My mother was an alcoholic and I was ostracized. I had no friends and I was miserable. We went to chapel every Wednesday where they preached hell fire and brimstone. As soon as I could get away from them I did. I wasn't going back. If that was Christianity I wanted no part.

Between my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college I dated a guy who introduced me to the Episcopal church. There they talked about how much God loved us. For once in my life, God was not some man sitting up in heaven with a scorecard keeping track of every one of my sins and infractions. Now I had met a God who loved me like my father did. Yes, even in all the sick twistedness of my life I always knew that if my dad got mad at me it would soon blow over.

It has been over 20 years now that I have been in the Episcopal church and my view of God may be totally irreverant, but I have this image of God sitting up in heaven chuckling saying Bitsy Leigh WHAT have you done now?

I am not afraid of God. I think He truly wants me to be happy and wants what is best for me. When it comes to dinosaurs, right in Proverbs it talks about the Leviathan and that God created it for the fun of it.

As far as creating the Earth in 7 days? Maybe He did and maybe He didn't. 7 days, 7 years, 700 years 7000 years or 7 million years. Doesn't matter.

As far as homosexuals? Let's see my stepbrother is gay, my cousin is gay, one of my best friends is lesbian. Who am I to judge what they do. I am sure they could sit around and figure out some way I am sinning.

And Hepburn, because I choose to follow Christianity, which teaches that Jesus Christ is the Saviour and the only way to heaven then yes I am saying that if you don't believe in my God that you won't go to heaven, but it isn't something I am willing to argue about.

When I was a freshman in college and took classes on Western Civilization I became confused. Sounded like the Hindus, Buddhist, and everyone else made a lot of sense. I studied it and really, the same god may appear to many different peoples and be the same god of many different religions. This is what after many years I have CHOSEN to believe. I am not beatig anyone else over the head and telling them they have to beleive the way I do. I am willing to admit I may be wrong.

Quite frankly the I may be wrong and you may be right argument with atheists. I think Christianity is a good way for me to live.

Really I am too busy taking care of my own sin to worry too much about yours. I get really hacked off at those who will say that depression is caused by un forgiven sin. BS. Total Bunk.

But while I am being a nice accomodating Christian I expect everyone else to be a nice accomodating, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Hari Chrishna, etc.

Bitsy

April 20, 2009
5:45 pm
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glittered when he walked
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Bible is good for good people and bad for bad people?

errrr...ummmmm..

There are a lot of good humanists for whom the bible is irrelevant..I certainly wouldn't call them bad people anymore than I would call Jimmy swaggert, Jim Jones, or Ted Haggard good people for exploiting other people's faith to enrich themselves.

If your faith makes you a better person..that's awesome, but I think it's decidedly foolish to lable those who may question the bible as "bad people."

April 20, 2009
6:05 pm
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I am not labeling those who do not believe in the Bible as bad people. Obviously I didn't explain myself.

Those who are going to be bad are going to be bad. Some will just be openly bad and some will hide behind religion to do it.

Those who are inclined to be good will only be made better by religion.

It was a line in a book. It struck a chord with me and I probably didn't explain myself well enough.

All of you are free to choose to believe in whatever you want to. Just don't label all Christians as bad and laugh and scoff at them and I won't label all (insert name here) as bad and I won't laugh and scoff at them.

Bitsy

April 20, 2009
9:59 pm
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I liked what you said about being to busy taking care of your own sin to worry about others. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
I also get angry when people imply that depression is caused by sin. if it wwere that easy to get rid of depression believe me I wouldhave tried it.
also i am not too keen on labeling either. I don't like being told I am stupid and naive for believing in Christ.
I would never tell someone they are going to hell because I dont' beleive in hell as most Christians understand the concept.

April 20, 2009
10:11 pm
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marypoppins
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It's difficult for me to see how someone can call oneself "accomodating" while claiming that the only path to Heaven is through Jesus Christ.

That does not allow for a WHOLE LOT of people on the planet.

I just don't have respect for that view. In my opinion, it's intolerant, narrow, and simple-minded. That's MY belief.

"Christians" seem to have no trouble stating that those who don't believe what they believe will go to Hell. No matter how it's danced around with others, in an attempt to be seen open and loving, that's the belief. People gather at churches to congratulate themselves on having made the right choice.

I've seen a lot of scripture quoting and self-righteous God-is-on-my-side behavior on this board - some of it blatant, some of it more veiled.

All of the Marys

April 20, 2009
10:18 pm
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marypoppins
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I never said anyone was stupid or naive.

I did imply that narrow interpretation of literature and disregard for science, logic, and the real experiences of real people, does not require a lot of brain power.

Mary

April 21, 2009
7:08 am
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Mary and anyone else. If you read my post I stated this is what I have chosen to believe. It works for me. I did not say that I have the magic password for heaven. I participate on a Christian board. We have several atheists, agnostics, and homosexuals who participate. For the most part they are all loved and accepted by the "community". There is not like here and we know more about each others personal lives and I have even exchanged personal emails with some of them.

When I came out of Christian school and went to public school my senior year, right of the bat I made two friends. The first issue of the school newspaper came out and both of them were being interviewed about their atheism.

My personal religious belief is that "all God's children got a place in the choir; some sing low and some sing higher"

There also is a song I learned in Chirstian school that I wish more of "my kind" would live by: They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, by our love.

Peace

Bitsy

April 21, 2009
1:41 pm
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StronginHim77
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{with a deep sigh]...It's just not politically correct to be a Christian today. Seems that it is totally unacceptable to bash someone who is an atheist, a homosexual or lesbian, etc., but bash a follower of Jesus Christ and everyone applauds. Why the heck is that?

Pondering...

- Ma Strong

April 21, 2009
2:00 pm
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Ma Strong --

I don't believe Mary was bashing Christians with her post, nor was I in laughing at it. The only Christians I "bash" are the ones who say their way is the right and only way and tell others that they are sinners for believing different -- and I would say that for anyone who felt that way about ppl who believed differently than them, no matter what the particular belief system was!

I worked for a gay man many years ago who seriously, literally thought that straight men, as well as women whether gay or straight, were of lesser intelligence. I regard this view to be as just as reprehensible.

April 21, 2009
3:32 pm
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With a laugh, I know a 72 year old woman whose father was a Baptist minister. She says homosexuality has to be natural. No woman in her right mind would CHOOSE to love a man. Of course she just celebrated 55 years with the same man.

Bitsy

April 21, 2009
3:53 pm
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lollipop3
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The way I took Mary's post was not that she was bashing or making fun of followers of Christ, but bashing those who CLAIM to be followers of Christ yet behave completely contradictory to his teachings.

That was my take on it anyway.....

April 21, 2009
3:57 pm
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lollipop3
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I must also say that in my life experiences, I don't recall ever hearing anyone bashing Christians unless they were defending themselves against some kind of judgement by Christians.

action = reaction

April 21, 2009
4:02 pm
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Mary -

Your post contained a statement which I consider to be an unkind -- and untrue -- generalization:

"People gather at churches to congratulate themselves on having made the right choice."

The people who gather at my small church do so to encourage one another, pray for one another, sometimes even financially assist one another...NEVER to "congratulate themselves on having made the right choice." That statement smacks of pride, self-complacency and self-righteousness.

I am sorry if you have encountered this amongst any Christians of your acquaintance. However, in realistic defense of my own, humble church family, I must disagree and affirm that your generalization was unfair.

I think you will agree that most generalizations can be.

- Ma Strong

April 21, 2009
4:06 pm
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Thanks Ma. Once again you said much better what I was trying to say.

Bitsy

April 21, 2009
4:32 pm
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marypoppins
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Yes, Ma, you're right. I should have said, "SOME Christians...".

Sorry.

Mary

April 21, 2009
4:35 pm
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Thanks Mary;)

Bitsy

April 21, 2009
4:44 pm
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No Mary, you have never said anyone was stupid or naive. I have found you to be sensible and "professional in what you write. i have been called that though.
The problem with relgion or believing it, is that to have any value or it must claim to be truth, otherwise why bother, right?.
If your going to claim the idea that Christ is the Savior, the only thing you can quote is the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
Most Christians I know are humble seekers of their own salvation.

April 21, 2009
5:00 pm
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Thanks for clearing that up Bitsy. I suppose that could be said of almost anything then - good people use things toward good ends, and bad people use things toward bad ends.

I dunno..I just wish we could take all the many things from religions that benefit mankind (the universally good things) and leave behind the fire and brimstone and dubious sin business (homosexuality, masturbation, subjugation of women, etc.) To live lives based on a scientific and logical understanding of the goodnesses for humankind...ahh..you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. ; )

April 21, 2009
5:32 pm
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God says, "come, let us reason together." in contrast to the widely held ancient belief that the earth was flat, the Bible clearly teaches that it is round. Isaiah 40:22 says, "It is He who sitteth upon the circle of the earth." Job 38:14, the oldest book in the Bible, says, "it [the earth] is turned like clay to the seal." that is a reference to the small cylinders used in ancient times to put one's seal on a clay document. those cylinders had sticks through the center, like a rolling pin, and while the clay was still soft, they would be rolled across it, leaving the impression of the seal. the Bible tells us the earth rotates on its axis like a cylinder making a seal. how did Job know that?

so who is right? of course, God is. but if man would have said the earth was a sphere and the Bible claimed it was flat then the Bible could not be God's word. we see this same idea in the false books such as the Koran that claims to have been written by God. at one point the Koran claims that the reason we have earthquakes is due to the fact that, "the earth is held up on the backs of many elephants and when they walk the earth shakes!" it is obvious that God did not author that book. Job, the oldest book in the Bible, says God hangeth the earth on nothing. how did Job know that? how come the Koran didn't?

again in Job 40:15-19, we read “Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. LO now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: . . . His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God.”
in this passage, God is urging us to consider all the marvelous evidences of His power and wisdom in nature. finally he calls our attention to “behemoth” (from a Hebrew word meaning “gigantic beast”), the greatest land animal God ever made—“chief of the ways of God.”

maybe you're thinking the Bible is describing a living animal like the elephant or a hippopotamus. really? it is obvious that neither of these animals “moveth his tail like a cedar.” anybody here seen an animal around with a tail like a cedar? it should be obvious that the behemoth is an extinct animal, very probably a great dinosaur. modern scientists have published many well-documented evidences that dinosaurs existed contemporaneously with early humans up to relatively recent times. early men, such as Job, could indeed stand amazed at this gigantic creature of God.

you can choose to believe God or man. it's your choice.

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