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The punisher
December 9, 2004
11:15 am
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Anonymous
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How many of us have encountered this person?

They will refrain from doing something because you want them to, i.e., please tell me what you think on this, and then refuse to tell you based on the sole factor of you wanting to know. Then they punish you, you don't do what I want then you will be punished and maybe you will learn your lesson so you don't do it again. And they punish you with not hanging out with you, not talking to you, witholding things from you such as attention and affection. THEN, when you are so confused and don't quite get what happened, you realize that this is all them. I have realized this is a few people in my life that are no longer there, Mr. Jack being one. I have realized that regardless of what you do for these type of people they will never be happy, never be satisfied, for you are their punching bag in life, and how dare you disobey them, or how dare you do something they dislike.

I use to think that this type of person never really existed but now I realize that they are out there so much. They love having power over you, making you feel bad for any little thing, anything they can hold over you and against you they will, and they enjoy it, they don't feel true pain they feel convienent pain, and it suits them when they need it to.

These are the type of people I am going to try to stay away from now on, but what are the warning signs.

December 9, 2004
11:32 am
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workinonit
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Hey Aces, been there done that and trying to avoid them too!

Remember the last crisis I had with Eric? the lecturer? Well, I was blown away by his defensiveness and his need to lecture, which I feel is punishing.

The best way to stay away from this type is to see the behavior as it happens and deal with it. I think another important factor is how you look at the behavior. If you give it power, by that I mean fear it, play into it, or consider it important at all, then it will have an effect on you. But, if you see it and do not react to it or walk away from it, you've taken the wind out of the sales of this person.

Mr Jack is only important in your mind. You control that don't you? You have all the power Aces and you can make whatever choices about your life you feel are right. Punishing actions from anyone are way off base.

December 9, 2004
11:49 am
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Anonymous
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yes I totally agree, I even saw that with this former friend of mine who was a lot like Mr. Jack, and it just made me sick inside, like why on earth would you want to punish someone, because they aren't number one in everything in your life?

I also notice this, they tend to be very good with manipulation of words, and in making you feel like you are the one that is losing your mind.

I was reading this book on the batterer, and even though Mr. Jack never hit me, he still fits the profile, even down to the parenting and so forth. The madonna whore relationship with the mom, everything.

I find it fascinating that the little things when we are kids really influence us now as adults.

December 9, 2004
12:18 pm
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Anonymous
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WOW, Im going to check out the website, that sounds just like Mr. Jack twinks,,, here is a great example:

I said to Mr. Jack when he called me dear, I really hate it when you call me dear, (even though I actually liked it I wanted to see what he would do). After that he proceeded to call me dear every chance he got.

I ask Mr. Jack questions, and he will never answer them unless he sees the answer as being beneficial to him in some sense.

I have never been like this, I mean if someone I cared for wanted me to do something I would try to do it, if they asked me something I would answer, why do they feel the need to do that, is it all about the control factor?

December 9, 2004
12:50 pm
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workinonit
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The problem is you can't compare this type of person to yourself. I used to do this too and have come to realize, there is no comparison between us.

My first ex was the ultimate manipulator. He was extremely covert so that I couldn't quite put my finger on specifics for a long time. And yeah!, I did think it was me and I was going crazy!

When we communicated I felt like I was hit with a steam roller. It got so bad that after awhile I couldn't even see through the cloudy thoughts to focus. I gave up for a long time until I woke up one day and said, I gotta get out or die.

It can still be hard dealing with him but I am getting so much better and it's been 6+ years!

My second husband was much like yours twinks. Purposely not doing things because he knew I would like it! Yikes.

December 9, 2004
12:55 pm
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Im reading this site and it is the most amazing thing I have ever read, thank you, I can honestly say thank you, it is helping me so much right now.

December 9, 2004
12:56 pm
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Anonymous
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Workin seriously check out this site, it is just amazing.

December 9, 2004
1:27 pm
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klug
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Aces & Spades,
I have been with someone who "punishes" me when I do not do something he feels I should have done it.
He says, I had not choice, now after he punished me by not seeing me to two days he broke up with me because I was crying.
It is such a hard place to be.
I totally understand

December 9, 2004
1:31 pm
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Ohh Klug, I suggest you go to the website that Twinks posted on here, it helped me realize a lot, and the sick thing is that I have been there, do you know that Mr. Jack has broken up with me before as well and it was as a punishment, I remember once I had said to him, I don't want to lose you, and his response to that was well that's too late now isn't it, and this was over the fact that I didn't do what he wanted me to and I had talked to a male friend. I know the confusion and pain and hurt I really do, and I also know that right now, I feel so much better not being with him than being with him.

Example: Last night I had sent him this text asking him if he meant what he has said when we broke up, he can text me back did u? and I responded and then he never answers my question, and to make matters worse when he calls me late at night later that night, he tells me when I asked him again, that I am so annoying, and why do I really want to know, and so I just said goodbye. It's all there is left to say to those type of people.

December 9, 2004
1:38 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Aces,

Good hit on one of the most painful aspects of relating to these people.

As best I can tell, these people are called "abusers," or "batterers."

Some of them are Narcissistic, some Psychopathic, some merely Antisocial.

See the "Signs of a Battering Personality."

See the "Charmer-Abuser" thread.

See the "Right to Say No" thread.

December 9, 2004
1:45 pm
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The fact that I don't have to deal with that anymore, I mean it feels like I can breath again, I can be happy again, I don't know it is aweird feeling at first I was totally crushed and couldnt think I could live without him, and now I don't know how I could live with him. I mean the games and the mind games, and the controlling, and manipulation made me feel like I was going insane and then to try and make senes of it all I started playing the games, and doing crap that was just not like me, and now, now I can breath again from the psychoness from Mr. Jack and that former friend that resembled him so much.

December 9, 2004
2:39 pm
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I like the term abuser's and I sometimes would tell myself MR. Jack isn't that he would never consciously do that, and the thing is that most of the time I don't even think he consciously did, it's just way of life for them. A sick way of life.

December 9, 2004
3:25 pm
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SweetAmanda
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I punish people on purpose sometimes.

I like to make people hurt.

Mind you, I know that I do do this... And I dislike it in myself.

Sometimes it seems that it's my only option though.

I don't know if that is the same thing... Me keeping something from someone, for the simple fact that they want/need it.

Hmmm.

December 9, 2004
3:39 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Yes SweetAmanda, but you actually have conscience about it. Huge difference.

December 9, 2004
3:40 pm
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Worried_Dad
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No Aces, he knows. Come on. he gets pleasure from choking women. He is a sadist.

December 9, 2004
4:14 pm
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SweetAmanda
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yes, I do have conscience about it. I thank God for that.

I believe that anyone is capable of anything.

December 9, 2004
4:23 pm
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Trust me worried dad, I do know what he is like, the sad thing is that so many people out there are like that and it just makes you cringe.

December 9, 2004
8:07 pm
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shibumi
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Aces & Spades,

People who "punish" you, badger you, or who seek to control you generally have low self-esteem (although they would deny this to the bitter end) and their only means of self-validation and self-worth comes from others. On some level they seem to "think" that if they can control others and their environment (the external) then they will be in control of themselves (the internal) and feel better about themselves. Likewise, witholding of things that another person wants or needs--the "punishing" person you speak of-- is also about ego and control because if "I" have something that you want or need, then that puts me in a position of power and importance in your life.

It is unfortunate but true that in order for some people to feel good about themselves, they have to feel "bad" about someone else. This happens through put downs, criticisms and unwarranted punishments. Their "worth" comes in comparison to others and at their expense. Their identity is based in an "I'm better than you" mentality. Punishing people for nothing is a means of control, of exerting arbitrary power over another.

As far as the warning signs--how to identify a punisher or controller--just look at how they behave, as one of the other post mentions. Of course, when you first meet such a person, be aware they may not treat YOU this way--not initially. That is why it's important to witness how they treat others (or how they talk about others).

Sweet Amanda, you mention that sometimes you feel hurting people is your only option. What do you mean? Do you do this as a sort of preemptive strike, hurting them before they hurt you?

December 10, 2004
12:03 am
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SweetAmanda
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shibumi,

I have to tell you that I went to the store, and we took the dogs along. It was one of those pet stores where you can bring your animals in if you want. After that, my mom wanted to make a quick run to home depot. I stayed in the car with the dogs. (I don't want anyone to steal them!)

Anyway, all that to tell you that I have been thinking about this post for a while. LOL I should have just said that and been done with it.

I like to spell things correctly. I like to have things perfect. I had to reformat my computer, so I haven't been able to put Microsoft Word back in yet... I am unable to spell check my posts...

When I posted about how I like to hurt people, I wanted to put that I like to be 'witholding'. But I was unsure of the spelling. You spelled it in your post. Thanks. =)

As I was in the car the only conclusion that I could come up with (now this was before I read your post, mind you) is that I do what I do because I have absolutly no self-esteem.

You are correct in saying that people deny it. I used to think I had a very healthy self-image. (if that's what it's called) Then one day, about 3 years ago, it hit me... That I hate myself.

I don't know what else to say. Your post was right on target. Are you a psychologist?

December 10, 2004
12:16 am
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SweetAmanda
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absolutely*

December 10, 2004
12:18 am
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art angel
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Amanda LOL

December 10, 2004
12:19 am
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mamacinnamon
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Oh Klug, be very careful.

My ex started out with little subtle punishments like not answering. Then they moved up to throwing dinner to the dogs coz my dinner was trash, then moved to his walking out and getting drunk, then moved to chocking me, then move to....

Don't want to get to far into it. I just wanted to tell you that it does escalate and when the little punishments they use don't amuse them any more they get worse.

Don't stay if you are seeing the beginning signs of this behavior.

I never heard this term put to it. Fits.

December 10, 2004
12:24 am
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SweetAmanda
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cinny is right

if I don't get the reaction I'm looking for, I will do something else... more drastic to prick them more. Get it?

December 10, 2004
12:30 am
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art angel
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The only thing I do is that I turn my phone off and do things by myself, so no one knows where I am. I get a secret satisfaction from being so independent and I'll just work on projects at school for a long time or go somewhere and keep my phone off for days at a time (not many people call me often anyway), and I love it. It's a new thing for me.

December 10, 2004
12:31 am
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SweetAmanda
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I did that. I would never answer my phone when my friends called.

They stopped trying.

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