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Tez and guest_guest and Site Coordinator please..from omw
April 13, 2009
12:55 pm
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Tez, guest_guest and SC,

I am going to state frankly and honestly what I believe to be the problem and when I saw it take place, then will leave it to all.

Tez and guest_guest have been conversing on AAC for years. You both are at fault, and there are always two sides to every story. I do not say this in an accusatory way, but I saw derision begin when we started talking about belief systems. You both supported each other throughout the "Christian bashing threads". However, when the Dalai Lama and the Buddhist threads came into being discussed, to me, all of sudden guest_guest came up short in stature according to Tez. I commented on it and so did a few other posters in guest_guest's defense. I didn't understand the point of it, however I will try not to be judgemental perhaps Tez was trying to get a point across. I saw it as being mean and told Tez so. I interpreeted it as guest_guest "never being able to comprehend or measure up to the practices of the Buddhist faith"....which aggravated me, but whatever. I am not taking up for guest_guest, he has been very rude to Tez and has followed him as Tez has said and harrassed him. However, to me, it seemed to have begun with the previous conversations they had between them which were, I thought, quite demeaning....guest_guest just "couldn't get it right no matter how hard he tried"..

Since then, he has followed guest_guest around and harassed him, most likely out of revenge and anger trying to make him look stupid because Tez made him look stupid. So you both are at fault as far as I can see.

From my conversations with guest_guest in regard to his relationship with his mother...she was a "bitch" to him he says, and he could never do anything right. This seems to be very much alive for you today guest_guest. So my take is that you don't want to be treated that way any longer, or you are extremely sensitive to criticism and will argue and defend rather than listen and adapt.

Two personalities here with different backgrounds....different obstacles.

IF you know something about another, you have to be careful about what you say, unless you are willing to go the extra mile to work it out.

I see hurt and anger. I don't think either of you need to leave. A huge apology may be in order though from both of you.

Don't mean to sound like a mother....but I raised three boys, however getting them to apologize was always like pulling teeth.

I love you both and would hate to see either of you leave.

Just thought I would try to get you all to reconcile your differences.

April 13, 2009
12:57 pm
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whoops, meant to say in the third pp that "guest followed Tez and harrassed," not the other way around as I mistakenly stated above.

April 13, 2009
1:02 pm
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yep, not patting yself on the back, but I just now read guest_guest response to my question on the "Tez farewell" thread where I said: "You two used to be able to converse, tell me, what has changed?"

It is the 'mother, parental thing"...
guest_guest has a problem with being told he is an ideot. I know we are not professional counselors but many of us are dedicated to heling other people....and where is compassion in this instance?

April 13, 2009
1:19 pm
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hi OM, SC has made up her mind. Its her site and she asked me to leave so there's no room for any reconciliation. I have said everything I wanted to say. If SC wants me to leave, I will. I cant argue with her on it. All I can do is leave some last words and then leave.

Tez threw the tantrum and made the threat to leave and it worked. If he hadnt done that, SC wouldnt ask me to leave. Dont worry about Tez. He'll be back. He wanted me to leave.

I have no regrets at all for anything I've said here. I have personal regrets on real life on other stuff but on this site I have done nothing to make an apology.

I was abused ruthlessly and given vicious racist attacks without SC saying a word to Tez about it. Why? She's afraid to. He's old, more than sixty and he's a dominating aggressive "know-all" personality.

Dont worry about me, I'm fine. I have nothing to regret. I dont bow down to falsehood and I'm not Mr. Nice guy. I say it like it is and it upset Tez to the point he made the threat to leave the site.

April 13, 2009
1:55 pm
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omw,

I am glad that you posted this.

Yes, I believe that both are at fault here as well.

Though I must say, alot of times the bantering between the two does get really, really old and pointless most times........still is this not still a free country?

I agree with what you said: "However, when the Dalai Lama and the Buddist threads came into being discussed, to me, all of a sudden guest_guest came up short in stature according to Tez."

I have felt that way on more than one occassion that Tez can be quite smug and condescending - a "pseudo-type of humilty", if you will as compared to the genuine artice...which is why I don't even bother with the Dalai Lama thread any longer.

But, on the same token, g_g can get downright disrespectful as well - just in a more, shall we say, unsophisticated manner.

Wouldn't it be great if both could maybe - for 30 seconds... back down on their positioning just long enough to find the similarities among each other rather than always concentrating on the differences?

As a matter of fact, how about the two of you taking that on as a challenge right here and right now?

Tez & guest-guest: I challenge the BOTH of you to look deep in your hearts and find at least 3 things that you could positively and honestly say about the other person..........

How 'bout it?

This could be an opportunity for some great healing on both parts - you think? maybe?

April 13, 2009
2:03 pm
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hi TbT

>> I have felt that way on more than one occassion that Tez can be quite smug and condescending - a "pseudo-type of humilty", if you will as compared to the genuine artice

Try explaining that to the Site Coordinator.

April 13, 2009
2:07 pm
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g_g,

So - what say you?

Are you gonna take the first step in my challenge to the both of you????????????

April 13, 2009
2:10 pm
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Tez,

Might you be the one to take the first step???????

Again, I reiterate - this could quite possibly be a grand step/opportunity for the BOTH OF YOU!!!!!

April 13, 2009
2:26 pm
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Well, I have to agree, and it all depends on how one looks at this. Attitude can be everything in many life scenarios. This could have a positive ending if both are willing to take a look at themselves and not blame the other. We are all responsible for ourselves and our actions, reactions and responses, etc.

April 13, 2009
2:42 pm
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Granted I have had very little interaction with guest guest and cannot think of any I have had with Tez.

With GG I found him to be negative and was able to throw everything back on me. We are all here for healing and growth, not to have to deal with the same type garbage that we are dealing with in the "real world".

GG I am not happy to see you go but I do think you need to reflect on why you created such strong feelings in others. Sometimes you have to have a sign that says you are looking at the problem and you have to go to a mirror with that sign.

Bitsy

April 13, 2009
2:47 pm
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omy,

Yeah, it ain't easy chocking/gagging on a piece of good ole piece of humble pie at 'tal.

But you know what?

The times that I have hunkered down done it in the past - and swallowed my own pride temporarily.... has produced some amazing and surprisingly positive results in ways that I could have never, ever imagined in my wildest dreams!!!!

Oddly enough, it resulted in my finally feeling really grounded and perfectly.....imperfect....(if you will....)

I really don't think that there is any other substitute, as far as this goes.

I KNOW first-hand how healing this can be!!!! - which is why I have made the challenge.

See, I believe that BOTH guest_guest AND Tez (as well as the rest of us here, myself included...) truly deserve a sense of peace and happiness - (otherwise - we just wouldn't BE HERE in the first place....you know?) and I feel deep down that if they can both somehow see fit to reconcile their differences - or even - merely consider this.....would be like a pebble thrown into a still pond.....and that the positive reverberations of just temporarily setting aside your own agenda and being vulnerable and risking will prove worthy of this small effort - ten thousand-fold!!!!!!!!

I really do wish the best for both - and hell, for all of here for that matter!!!!!!

April 13, 2009
3:09 pm
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April 13, 2009
3:35 pm
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marypoppins
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The SC wrote:

site coordinator
13-Apr-09

"...But in truth, I have been hoping for years that GG would learn and grow out of this ‘trashing everything’ point of view/state of mind, or whatever it really is. I honestly don’t know, and it doesn’t matter. The resulting crap is the same.

GG – I’ve asked you to stop the negativity and horse-beating of threads and ideas that has become not only common practice with you over the years, but now, it’s 99.9% of what you do on these threads.

I don’t like it. It’s not healthy for you, these boards, or anyone who comes here. Myself included. I want you gone for me and the sake of the site. No one should be asked to tolerate you or stay in spite of you. In my opinion, you have defiled good sense and healthy dialogue far too long."

We have to trust that the SC has a vantage point that we don't have. Perhaps we believe we "know" something, based on our experiences and interactions with certain posters, but not one of us has the perspective the SC has.

The SC seems to want this site to be a healthy place. I don't always know what's healthy and what's not. I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that a lot of us developed a high tolerance for craziness growing up.

I trust that the SC knows more about recovery and health than I do.

Mary

April 13, 2009
11:39 pm
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My goodness, what a hullaballoo! What a brouhaha! What a great way to perk up the hit count at this site :o)

Mary, you wrote, "The SC seems to want this site to be a healthy place." And Bitsy wrote, "We are all here for healing and growth"...

But those could just be assumptions, and not necessarily correct ones. Some people are no doubt here for healing and growth; some may be here for entertainment, some may be doing research, some may be here to cause mischief, and some may be earning a living or at least a buck, who knows. Remember a few months back on one of the Narcissist threads when somebody found this site's statistics online, and it said it employs over 25 people (too many posts to wade through... but it's in there somewhere). How many site administrators are there? We don't know. What do they do? We don't know.

Check out the very interesting thread from May 2005, entitled Should These Threads Stay Up? - Site Coordinator. At that time the SC stated it was getting too hard to moderate this place, and threatened to quit. Numerous posters, including Guest_guest, felt the SC's pain, and offered services as co-administrators, or suggested "hiring professionals" to moderate the site. Who knows if it ever happened?

As for banning... sometimes people who have been banned "for life" come back. (Anybody see that happen with "peacesoul" last year?)

So I'm sure Tez and Guest and the SC will all be just fine.

have a happy day everybody

kroiks the kurious

April 14, 2009
9:50 am
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Hmmm...

This conspiracy issue that bevdee & kroika speak about is really disturbing to me. It is paranoia. No validity.

There is 1 site administrator, me. I've only ever posted as site coordinator. I don't ever monitor or give a hoot about hit counts... guest_guest is NOT HELPING HIMSELF, or others by being here. I've written to him several times in email asking him to 'ignore' Tez, leave him alone, stop the pestering... and to no avail. He doesn't even understand or see it as this. It is hopeless, and there needs to be peace, and it isn't happening. One of them has to go, and since GG does similar tacticts with others, I 'chose' him.

It's time for learning and peace and growth to restore here instead of this constant back and forth pitting.

I have tried a truce with Tez & GG, it doesn't work.

And a sincere shame on those who believe there is some kind of "hit count" shit going on... unbelieveable - It saddens and sickens me to hear this.

Carry on... as usual.

April 14, 2009
10:02 am
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Ha!!

I skimmed kroika's post previously... and really only skimmed it again. I don't have time to read anything entirely.

But, employ 25 people? I think someone who knows something about the internet, and how those 'statistics' get created should speak up (not me, I'm not qualified, cuz I could 'give a hoot').

But 25 people? I wish!! Well, no, I don't. There's one of me. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble about this place, but it's one person. I had a vision, a big vision... I asked friends and loved ones for help in creating this place. It was so very hard, and this is my 'baby'... my baby of love. I regret that I do not devote enough of my time these days to upgrading or 'keeping the peace', or teaching, etc... but this place is what it is. Trash it, make fun of hit, hang me for being just 1 person or 25 people... it's what this place is for. Open dialogue.. open so long as it moves along and promotes eventual growth and health. GG, was stuck here. Could not anyone see this? This place is NOT HELPFUL for him. It is harmful. He surely has better things to do than this. I would hope.

April 14, 2009
10:46 am
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Dear SC,

I posted this to Tez last night:

"marypoppins
13-Apr-09

(((Tez)))

More than once, you reached out to Guest. I know that you were hoping that Guest would one day come around, as the SC wished, too. For the past year, I've followed many of the exchanges between you and Guest and gotten involved several times. I also tried to reach out to him, felt hopeful at times, but then, people are ready when they're ready. I hope that he finds peace.

Each of us has enough on his/her plate to contend with. A disagreement now and then, a challenge we can grow from, and opposing views are all to be expected on a site such as this, but we should be free from constant harrassment.

You held back for a long time before striking back. To those who only saw the more recent months of exchanges between you and Guest, it may look differently than it truly is. You're under no obligation to anyone but yourself.

All the best!

Mary"

I wanted you to know that I appreciate your efforts, a lot. Maybe your question about anyone seeing that Guest was stuck was rhetorical, but I did see it.

Thank you for writing from your heart. I did post some links with info about the site from the Narcissist thread. I don't know much about the Internet. People hear things and get paranoid. A lot of our secrets are here. Again, thank you for clarifying, and I'm sorry if I've added to your frustration.

I've learn so much from this site. Sometimes the lessons are hard, and I've had to face unpleasant truths about myself, but the support I've gotten has been consistent. I've seen growth in others here, too, which is inspirational. Most importantly, I don't feel alone.

Sincerely,

Mary

April 14, 2009
10:57 am
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Dear SC,

I did see exactly what you have posted in regard to Guest. Sad to say, I hope he does seek whatever help he needs, and wish him the best.

April 14, 2009
3:33 pm
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Hey SC,

Thank you for all you do. What a brilliant way of reminding us to keep it focused on ourselves and not diagnose each other -

"This conspiracy issue that bevdee & kroika speak about is really disturbing to me. It is paranoia. No validity. "

This was also a great way of reinforcing what you have often cautioned against- shaming each other -

"And a sincere shame on those who believe there is some kind of "hit count" shit going on... unbelieveable "

It took me a minute to realise that is what you must have meant. At first, I thought you were upset or some shit like that. Brilliant.

April 14, 2009
3:40 pm
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I don't understand your post, Bev.

April 14, 2009
3:42 pm
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For those who may think that the status quo is “fighting”… I’d like to address that.

My belief: What you do and what others “do” on this website is YOUR OWN status quo. Not mine or this website’s. If you fight, feed it, condone it, stay here and read it and you don’t report it… then it’s your status quo.

What I have done in the past: There is a sign posted on top of the thread page with the mission of the site on it. It’s written in orange letters with orange Header Lines around it. I made those. Guidelines are plastered everywhere. I made those. I step in on occasion when I am notified in e-mail of a problem. I’m here right now. There is a specific guideline that asks EVERYONE here to E-MAIL me when there is a problem. I do consider unresolveable and continued “fighting” a problem.

What I continue to do: I ask people to leave the site, I remind people of the guidelines, I create new guidelines when needed (ie: no religion on support side), I reinforce and reminded of those guidelines… Because, it’s not my status quo. I’m writing this… it explains what I think of “status quo” here on the site.

What I don’t do: I do not read these threads. I do not follow story lines. I do not keep a naughty check list. I don’t delete content unless absolutely necessary. I don’t bleep out swear words. I don’t console hurt feelings. I don’t beat others up. I don’t assume.

If something meets these 3 criteria, then it’s a “problem/not status quo”:
#1 is breaking the guidelines
#2 is unacceptable or irresolvable by others on the site
#3 I’ve been notified of it.

Many times, I’m notified in email, and by the time I get the notification, the problem is already resolved. Apologies are handed out, a resolution has been made, or the like. That happens about 90% of the time. I smile, and feel like there is hope in the world.

I’m here now, because there were three notifications in email that Tez was leaving & it was due to the continued throat ramming of guest_guest… I was notified a few months ago of the same, and I showed up. I posted. I talked directly to guest_guest, right here. And in email. And again few times recently. And a few times, in the past. It’s gotten old. In my opinion, GG finally needed to go. He’s not my status quo. Definitely not status quo on the support side. Has been borderline for years on liberation brew side.

It’s not the status quo not to follow the guidelines. Most people do follow the guidelines, most of the time. And most people don’t follow the guidelines, some of the time. It’s the status quo FOR YOURSELF, for GG, for WHOMEVER when we do not follow them.

Disclaimer: No where does it say that the site coordinator will be here day by day to watch and scorn and correct people for flinging their issues on people, for breaking guidelines, or for being the teacher of healthy communication… that’s your job. That’s your responsibility. When you drive an automobile, it is your responsibility to follow the guidelines. If you’re caught or reported, you get a ticket. If you do it again, you go to jail.

I mean, what planet do we think we’re on here? I’m on earth over here, maybe I’m broadcasting into outerspace.

Seize the opportunities you have in this life. Enjoy them. Saver them. Learn from them. Enjoy the opportunity you have on this site. If you don’t like the status quo you have all created here, then go elsewhere. I’m assuming you all like it, or you’d split.

April 14, 2009
3:46 pm
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No, really bevdee you should feel ashamed here. What you have said and done deserves it. Shame is what keeps horrible acts from happening to other human beings. What you have done to "ME", deserves shame. To defile and work to discredit another human being and their works of love, deserves shaming. I do not deserve what you are saying and doing here. Shame is what keeps us from stealing and murdering in this world.

Shame on you. You should be APOLOGIZING.

And folks, really, I'm done posting on this... carry on.

April 14, 2009
4:04 pm
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I'll carry on. Bevdee has always done, and continues to, speak her mind. Tactfully, politely, ingeniously, fearlessly, and honestly. That's not shameful. That's respectful. Admirable.

BEV'S post is brilliant. Think about it.

peace

April 14, 2009
4:07 pm
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And wow. I actually just read what you wrote bevdee... I mean, really read it. I'm flipping shocked. I'm brilliant for trying to convince someone of what??? This is paranoia. Absolutely. I don't know how else to tell you bevdee, but you are paranoid. Come to Cleveland, Ohio, and see me. See my life, my family, my friends. What I do for a living. See me struggling to keep bullies like you at bay. Sit down and hear my story. I've got one like everyone else here. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, and numerous other "issues" that I shall not name as it will make me a 'target' more than I already am. I've got issues 🙂 they'll never all go away. I'll die first.

You actually think I'm being in-sincere?

I'm flipping pissed, enormously offended, incredibly SHOCKED, hurt.

You honestly, I mean, come ooooNNN! think I'm not a sensitive caring and feeling human being, who created this place, WORKED thanklessly for years for this place... I mean, where do you think this shit comes from?

I'm definitely tired of shit like this when I post. And for shit when I don't post, and people like you who think there's something fishy going on. It's called a life! I've been living with this website for 12 years now. I've got other things to do. Gimme a break!

April 14, 2009
4:10 pm
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tree,

bevs post is brilliant if you think that her broadcasting that I'm a liar and a fraud is "brilliant". That's what she did. Read it agai.

How is that brilliant? It's disrespectful. And you just said that it was done respectfully? It had about the hardest slap in the face possible with words.

that isn't respectful at all. it was a 'brilliant' disrespectful slap in the face. that's what it was.

I'm losing hope in this site again.... I really am.

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