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Starry, Christine and anyone else...........
November 1, 2004
8:57 am
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Cactus
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Hey Gang,
Good morning Hope everyone had a great weekend.

Christine,
How are you doing?

Starry,
I see you posted over the weekend. What's the deal with this friend of yours? Did you finally call him?

-Cactus

November 1, 2004
9:38 am
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HI Cactus....Yah, had a little bit of time, so I got online....was worried about Bubishi...thought I'd check on him.

I didn't call, and have decided not too. I am tired of persuing my possible relationships. I feel like if he wanted to talk to me, he would have called....What do you think?

I had a good weekend...How are you doing?

November 1, 2004
9:47 am
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Good job, Starry!

Cactus... well, he isn't coming to this building today, I found out he's coming on Thursday.

And, my friend isn't talking to me. She usually emails me first thing in the morning, and hasn't. And, that is fine. I have to maintain my boundaries and not allow certain treatment. People are not allowed to call me names. My opinion hasn't changed on the topic she asked my opinion for, so I can expect her to continue to tear me down for my refusal to agree with her. I still don't care what she does in her personal life, but how she treated, and treats, me is another matter entirely.

I've decided to surround myself with people who treat me with integrity, and anything other than that is a deal breaker and a friendship ender.

I don't deny that I'm opinionated. I have strong convictions on certain thins, and everyone knows that if they ask me something concerning those convictions that they are going to remain the same from day to day. But calling me names for having convictions, asking my opinion, having me express my opininion and not agreeing with my opinion only strengthens my resolve, not the opposite. I'm not a victim, and won't be abused or victimized by anyone. :o)

Did I mention how beautiful today is outside? And that I'm going to lunch today with a friend... mmmmmmm Red Lobster biscuits are GOOOODDDD :o)

November 1, 2004
9:55 am
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Those biscuits are so yummy...the best reason to go there!!!

Cristine....Good for you. I am a bit suprised..I have had disagreements with my friends before, but I don't just cut contact like she did.

I am so proud of you for sticking up for yourself...that attitude should be in all of us.

I only have peanut butter and jelly for lunch...so I will be jealous of you come lunchtime.

November 1, 2004
10:16 am
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Cristine
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Well, starry... it was a bit more than a disagreement. She asked for my opinion on something, she didn't agree with my opinion, and proceeded to personally attack me, call me names, insult me, belittle me, bring up my past relationships, brought up what others thought about me, and things I do that she doesn't agree with... when I again expressed my opinion, that my opinion hadn't changed, that we were allowed to have different opinions about things, and told her not to call me names, she just called me more names, insulted me some more.... And I'm sorry, but friends don't treat me like that just because I don't agree with them. I don't mind that she isn't contacting me. It just shows me that she's not a true friend. She didn't have to AGREE with me, or even do what I would have done in the same situation. I wasn't trying to be right... just expressing my opinion after she ASKED me for it, and standing by my convictions. And, I still am.

Star... I'll bring a biscuit back and rub it on my computer screen while I'm online... do you think that will get it to you? :o) Don't want you to miss out!

November 1, 2004
10:21 am
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Yah, I don't understand what she is thinking..and I am glad it doesn't bother you.. I read the thread about the topic, and I agree with you. I bet she knows you are right, and just doesn't want to face it.

Thanks for the biscuit...i will be waiting..

So, Thursday he comes.....sounds like you are ready...You are really strong.

November 1, 2004
10:22 am
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Good morning Starry,
So this guy is a possible new beau huh! Are you ready for that? I mean if you are great and I don't at all think you need to be saving yourself for "whatshishead" but don't mask a hurt with a warm body until you're ready. Just a dose of reality brought to you by me.

I too had a good weekend worked the whole weekend, went to the wedding reception. Didn't get anything done on my 2 songs but there's always next weekend. I went out scouting out a few bars for possible gigs for the band also.

I've got a line on a girl I'm suppose to call (introductions were made by a mutual friend). She's one of those extremely attractive women that guys only dream about. I should have called her this weekend but I'm not rushing it she'll be there next weekend, if not oh well. Usually when girls are this attractive the baggage they're carrying around could break your back. Now I really don't know that much about her so I'd reserve judgement until after our first meeting. The good thing about her is that she lives in Chandler, not exactly a hop skip and a jump from Phoenix so I'm really gonna have to like her to want to trek all the way over there to see her. Well see how it goes.

Okay your turn.

-Cactus

November 1, 2004
10:29 am
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Cactus
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Hey Christine,
I've got to run out to one of our homeless sites for a while I'll post when I return. I want to relay a story to you about why if I were you I'd be careful in terminating relationships (even this one). Talk to you in a little bit. It too is a beautiful day in AZ.

-Cactus

November 1, 2004
10:35 am
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Cactus....No, I totally agree with you.

I don't think I am ready to have a new relationship. I just don't want to burn any bridges..but I think that I am already getting anxious for him to call...so I am going to make a decision to stop this behavoir before it starts...there are plenty more fish in the sea? right?

Glad you are being smart about this new girl...and not rushing things, but I don't think a phone call would hurt....I know how it feels to be the girl waiting for the call..so maybe I am a bit sympathetic to her 🙂

It is sunny here in Boise, but cold...I had frost all over my car this morning.

November 1, 2004
10:41 am
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Star... well, I don't care if I'm right or not on her issues. I know I'm right on not allowing people to call me names. Like I told her, she can do whatever she wants, EXCEPT call me names. THAT is unacceptable and directly effects me.

Cactus... I understand what could happen ending the friendship... she could talk about me to people at work, she can talk about me to my x bf, she can be nasty to me here. She works in a different department than I do, so what they think about me is fine. I'm not speaking to the x bf, so I don't care what he thinks about me either. We don't have any other mutual friends, and I have other friends who treat me right. We don't 'run' in the same circles, so I'm fulling willing to accept anything that ending this friendship brings. I can't, and won't, allow someone in my life that continually brings me down when I don't agree with them, and I don't need the drama. I don't think she'll do anything to hurt me, or anything like that. I look forward to hearing your story when you return!

Star... well, Thursday, I know he is on vacation... Thursday and Friday. And, I guess I'm not really THAT stressed out about him actually being here. The anticipation of his arrival is more stressful than the actual thing. So, I'm just going to pretend he's already here, and move on from here. I've been more conflicted over calling him since Friday. I actually had an urge to call him and tell him that I'd ended my friendship with Leslie... and not to talk to her about me or ask her advice or anything... and then I realized how CRAZY that would be. I had to really take a look at whether I wanted him to be in my life at all, and calling would have brought him back in. I had to just decide that I really WAS and AM done dealing with him, and that it doesn't matter what she says, if they sit around and talk about me, or anything else. That I can't allow him back in my life just to save face with him... when I really just don't CARE what he thinks about me. He's emotional acid in my life, and me still wanting him to think I'm a good person is inconsequential... it just doesn't matter WHAT he thinks about me, or if he thinks I'm a good person, or if he wants to be with me, or if he may want to be with me in the future... I don't want HIM in my life, or the BS I have to tolerate to have him there. I deserve better... from my friends, and my relationships, than either of them can give me. I'd rather be alone than deal with the verbal and emotional abuse. There are 6.2 BILLION people on earth... I don't need to take abuse from 2 of them when there are so many others out there that won't abuse me. Make sense? I don't have to settle, and what they think about me doesn't matter as much as what I think about me.

November 1, 2004
10:42 am
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Cristine - I've come to realize that when you don't tell people what they want to hear, then it becomes WWIII. Honestly, good for you to sticking your grounds. Im glad that your ex isn't there until Thursday gives you time to prep so to speak. I haven't talk to you in a few so I wanted to say hi. I like to use the term cleaning house, which I refer to as getting all the negative people in my life who just bring me down, OUT of my life, too bad it wasn't that easy with Mr. Jack. Besides that, if your friend can't respect your opinions thoughts, etc, than that isn't a friend at all, and to bring up past issues is just childish plain totally childish. That is what I would do in high school when you have nothing else to go on. HANG IN THERE!!!!!

November 1, 2004
10:47 am
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starryslp
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I agree with you about the letting them back in part.

I wish I never had called my ex...no need...nothing is so important that he needed to know that is worth me getting crazy again.

And, I agree...name calling is stupid.
Good for you for defending yourself..too many people in the world who would love to be friends with you to worry about it.

Do you think your ex will try to talk with you?

November 1, 2004
10:56 am
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Hey there Aces... how ya hangin' in there gal? To tell you the truth, I didn't even have friends in HIGH SCHOOL treat me that way. I have 2 friends from high school that I still have to the day who tell me they admire me, I inspire them, and they compliment me... they don't always agree with me (case in point, the man I married, the men I've dated, me joining the military, me doing several of the things I've done), but they don't rip me apart. We just agree to disagree, and if I have made a wrong decision and realize it later, they don't tell me "See, Cristine, I told you so..." They are there for me with a shoulder to cry on and don't call me names then either or point out my mistakes. If I ask their opinion, they give it freely, and I admire them for it and their convictions. No name calling.

Starry... I can't tell you what he's going to do or not do. I can't make him do anything or control is actions. All I can say is that if he DOES talk to me, I'll keep it business, not answer any personal questions if he asks them, not be rude, but I won't be cordial or invite further conversation. He had 3 1/2 years to talk to me. Enough is enough. And him 'realizing' anything at this point is meaningless to me. I've already made up my mind. He's changed him mind before, told me what he thought I wanted to hear, I fell for it, and fell right back into it. I'm done. Hopefully, he is too. If he isn't, that's not my issue to resolve. I've got to stand firm in my decision and live with it. Even if I'm alone for a while, and it takes me a few years to find a relationship, or not at all... rather that than what I got from him.

You hang in there Star... everyone does things they regret later... just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again! We continue to be given lessons in life that we need to learn, until we learn them. My lesson is that people who claim to care about you don't call you names, and when they do, you remove yourself from the situation. I think I'm learning. With him, it took 3 1/2 years... with her, it took once.

November 1, 2004
11:03 am
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I always love your advice Cristine...You have a lot to offer.

Can I ask you an unrelated topic.

You were in the millitary?
I have been thinking about it lately.
Would you recommend it? Which branch?
I am 31, and have seriously considered it lately...I would love your opinion.

November 1, 2004
1:39 pm
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Cristine
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Starry... well, I'd say go for it. I was in the Navy. I am attempting to encourage my daughter to join the Air Force... but not strongly. We talk about it from time to time. If you want to go in for the career opportunities, go for it. It enhanced my life immensely.

November 1, 2004
1:43 pm
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Ok gang... so Leslie emailed me. Again called me names and attempted to JUSTIFY it... I didn't fall for the bait. I told her that I wasn't going to talk about that issue with her, and told her that I'd obviously inadvertantly pushed some hot buttons by expressing myself the way I did, but that AGAIN, she is not allowed to call me names. I told her that anything I said or did did not justify it, and that calling me names was not something I was going to accept. I set that boundary, and expressed that if she felt she was unable to handle differences of opinion from me without calling me names, that she needed to decide what her personal boundaries were, and let me know if this friendship was something she felt she could continue. But that in NO WAY would I accept anyone calling me names again.

November 1, 2004
1:43 pm
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How long were you in for?

My biggest worry is what my family will say. I know I have to do what I want...I just know they will freak.

do you think I am too old?

November 1, 2004
1:49 pm
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I was in for 8 years. How old are you?

Hey, this is what I wrote Leslie, and what she returned with... guess the friendship is over... She couldn't accept my boundaries, that is clear.

Leslie,
I'm not discussing Dan with you anymore. You don't want my opinion, you made that clear. This isn't about him anymore. This is about acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior in our friendship.You ASKED my opinion, or I wouldn't have given it. When I didn't agree with you, and expressed that, you immediately got defensive. I don't control any 'hot buttons' that me not agreeing with you induced or that a negative response it induced. The buttons must be there, I seet that now, because it seems I inadvertantly pushed them. What I would do or not do doesn't matter, and I never said, "Leslie, do this, or that or I won't talk to you again. I think you are this, or I think you are that..." I never asked you to agree with me, and I never told you what to do. I don't care one way or another what you do. I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. I've done it before MANY times in my life.

You are an adult and have to live with any reprocussions that any decisions you make in your life may bring. I'm not your mother, you are right. I'm not ACTING like your mother. I was acting like a friend who had not been given all the facts whose opinion was asked. I DO care when you call me names. Do whatever you like. Don't agree with me, but don't call me names. THAT behavior, calling me names and then trying to say it's because of anything I said, or that you think I implied, or the way you think I said anything... blaming me because you called me names, calling me names...that behavior is unacceptable to me and I won't tolerate it in my relationships or friendships. Nothing I did or said caused you to call me names. You are an adult and responsible for your own actions, regardless of anything you think I said or did. I never called you names. You, on the other hand, blatently came right out and brought up very hurtful things from my past relationships, my relationship with my child, things others may have said about me... You don't have to like the way I express my opionions. You don't have to like my opinions. I will continue to have them regardless. Next time you don't WANT them, then don't ask. You know I have strong opinions, and when I've given them before and you appreciated my strength, guidance and insight and help, that was different and accepted. Ask, don't ask. Accept, don't accept. But, you are NOT allowed to call me names. Calling me names and justifying why it's ok to do so, is unacceptable. If it continues, if you don't think you can stop yourself, or if this is the only way you know to respond when you feel you've been hurt, then there is no need for this to continue. I won't allow that negativity in my life.

If you feel that you are unable to accept that I'll have different opinions than you without calling me names, and you feel that you may become defensive when I do or when I express myself with conviction (I never talked down to you. Talking down to you would have been calling you names, not just disagreeing with you and telling you why), then you need to decide, knowing that, if this friendship is going to work for you. I've established the boundary that NO ONE is allowed to call me names. You decide if you can accept that, and what your boundaries are, and let me know.

November 1, 2004
1:51 pm
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Star... this is what she wrote back.
And, you know what, it didn't hurt one bit. I expressed myself and my boundaries, she didn't accept them, obviously:

OK Cristine, exactly what names did I call you again? And my references to your daughter and your past relationship was merely to prove my point that you are NOT any different than I am when it comes to your inconsistencies, of which your original comments to that fact are what ticked me off in the first place. YOU offended ME, and when I came back at you for it, you played the innocent victim. I did not call you anything because you differed from my opinion, it was the WAY you went about speaking it that was wrong. You are too strong and overbearing trying to prove you are right, that you can be very offensive in the overall manner in which you do it.

Let me say this. Your interpretation of what people think is not always on the mark. You went around this office bashing Alvin for what he said to you, when all he was trying to say to you in reality was that YOU had made it clear to him that you were not going to be his girlfriend, so he was merely trying to say to you (out of his own hurt) that he didn’t have to ask your permission in order to change his plans. I can see why you were upset because WHAT he said didn’t actually match what he MEANT, and of course it sounded hurtful and probably was, but rather than stopping to try and understand what he really WAS trying to say, you refused to do so, played the victim yet again, and then went around and bashed him to everyone that would listen. You made him appear to be this cold hearted son of a B that didn’t give a crap about you or your feelings, when in reality that wasn’t the case. He was hurt that you had resisted his advances and was only trying to prove a point that YOU made to him. He didn’t do it correctly, but his intentions weren’t the way they came out, yet you have ruined his image to everyone in this office because of it. I’m sorry, but you need to stop and look at someone else’s point of view before assuming YOU are right about everything. I can agree to disagree Cristine. I’m mature enough for that, and also mature enough for constructive critism, but you push the envelope when it comes to YOUR opinions and thinking they are the correct ones. I said it before, it’s all in perception, and I hate to tell you, but yours isn’t always the right one.

Nevermind I wrote. I can see my faults, and tried to accept them when I wrote you back, but yet again, you’re more interested in making yourself look good and victimized than you are really working this out. It takes two to argue, and it takes two to admit their faults, but if you can’t do that and don’t see that you have them, I’m not interested. Subject closed.

November 1, 2004
1:53 pm
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Good email, did she respond yet? As long as you feel better, and I think setting boundaries and sticking to them is a damn good idea. Very good idea. We all need to do that more.

November 1, 2004
2:32 pm
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Thanks for all your support, guys. Here is what I wrote her. I expect a nasty response back, but that is ok:

I don't control any 'hot buttons' that me not agreeing with you induced or that a negative response it induced. The buttons must be there, I see that now, because it seems I inadvertantly pushed them. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt, but I'm not apologizing for having a different opinion or how I expressed myself. I didn't intentionally set out to hurt you, as you have me. I am sorry if you were hurt, however. I accept that you don't accept my boundaries. I will not talk about you, too much drama. I thank you for your opinion, and will think about it for my future relationships and friendships. I've apologized to Alvin if his feelings were hurt, but maintain my boundaries there too. Thank you for the friendship you've given me in the past, I'm sorry it is unable to continue. I appreciate all the encouragement and advice you gave me as to establishing boundaries and accepting certain treatment from others. It's helped me grow more than I can express.

November 1, 2004
3:08 pm
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I think your responses are good. I wouldn't even write her again...She is not going to see her fault.

Some people never do.

Good for you for sticking to your guns~~

I am 31.

November 1, 2004
3:18 pm
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Thanks Starry. I'm not going to email her again. I did, however (don't freak), send the x an email telling him that I apologized for hurting his feelings if I took what he said out of context, but that I still believed it best if we not have any contact or a relationship.

31... that isn't too old. When I went through, we had a woman there who was 34! Do you have your degree? Have you called any recruiters in your area? I know that your family may not agree with your decision, but you have to do what you believe is correct for your life. Why would you consider joining?

November 1, 2004
3:26 pm
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Did your x respond...I do think it is good you made it clear you don't want contact...then he knows when he arrives, that you don't want to talk to him.

My ex was a recruiter...so I know much of the routine of how it goes.
There is a recruiting station here in my town, I should at least go talk to them....

I just think , I don't have a degree...no real direction that my career is going....and I kind of would like to get stationed away from here.

Not that I am running away, just needing a change.
Did you like the Navy?

November 1, 2004
3:44 pm
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I really enjoyed the Navy. I think if I had it to do over that I'd join the air force though.

No, I don't expect him to respond. I think he's already seeing someone else, and I told him that I appreciated him not contacting me, that I just wanted to apologize if I'd taken what he'd said out of context, but that considering the past 3 1/2 years, I still believed that us not being in a relationship was appropriate and that I appreciated him respecting my boundaries about no contact. I am hoping he's seeing someone else, so that the drama won't start back up when he gets here. I was pretty stressed out all weekend, about enforcting my boundaries with him, and with her. And you know, now that I'm doing it, it's not all that bad! I feel more respect for myself, and I feel good about standing up for myself. I don't think I was nasty in my responses to her, although hers were really nasty, you read them. That's ok. It just reinforced my position in my mind and heart.

The military offers a lot of opportunity... college money, travel, job direction, and retirement at 20 years. You could join, and retire at 51! See the world, focus on your life and career... just check it out. I have a totally biased opinion. Someone who didn't enjoy their time as much may have a totally different opinion. You could always check it out, see if you are eligible, take the ASVAB test, and see what jobs the different branches would offer. That may help you make up your mind too.

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