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Fiancee cheating on me. The World Does not make sense.
August 24, 2009
3:00 pm
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MsGuided
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UM.....If your GF was abused then sometimes people speak from that place. Maybe she isn't free from her past, so her actions are reactive to her state of mind, not to you necessarily.

Her healing process, need for validation, is separate from you. The distance doesn't help. There's more likelihood to give in to bad impulses.

Perhaps her badmouthing you is also more about her past then now.

I don't think cheating is grounds to end a relationship unless communication, respect, and intimacy are all gone.

Maybe humans have it all wrong when it comes to monogamy? I think we lie to ourselves about our relational and sexual capacities. Perhaps monogamy is very selfish and unrealistic?

When you look at stats related to cheating something just isn't right. It can't be the sexual conduct alone but the restraints we put upon ourselves and others.

WD, I think your doing the right thing by being open and communicative to your GF, and FORGIVING in regards to all the issues that exist : the cheating, badmouthing, and avoidant behaviour.

We all have "issues". It's just a matter of them meshing with anothers, being open about them, and finding mutual ground to stand on.

August 24, 2009
5:14 pm
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truthBtold
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WD,

Lawd knows, far be it for me to pass any kind of judgement except to say that I suggest that you really need to take a minute to just sit down with yourself to seriously examine just why 'in the world' your relationships in the past have not worked out as you had hoped they would and what do you suppose went wrong and why?

Honestly and truly now?

To tell you the truth, a red flag kind of waved for me when you said that you had entertained letters from 2,241 women before this particular one caught your eye?

What is up with that?

2,241 letters?

What exactly did these 2,241 women RESPOND TO?

Some kind of ad or something you placed????

...and where - some kind of foreign multi-country listing or something????

I am a little bit confused about all of this.

(If this is the case, well, you know, what can you REALLY HOPE to expect, all things considered????)

How in the world were you able to solicit so many responses???

What's up with that?

Are you not comfortable in perhaps trying to develop a one-on-one face-to-face relationship with a woman in your own city/town?

Must you go to these great lengths accross the continent(s)?

What exactly are you afraid of from the local gals?????

Surely a guy with your obvious intellect and sensitivity could easily make an honest connection with a local gal, face-to-face - so why this extreme cross-continental persuit(sp?)?

Seems a little bizarre to me is all.

Seems to me that you have some kind of hidden agenda on this one. What exactly that is? - well, I have no way of knowing. Only you can honestly answer that question, WD.

Maybe by answering that question to yourself will unlock the key to what you are ultimately seeking and will therefore carve a way for the true, real woman in your life to present herself to you in just an easy, natural (and very one-on-one local) way........

You know?

If I am way, WAY off the mark here, then so be it.

Just my thinkin is all.

tBt

August 25, 2009
12:13 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi truthBtold,

Yes I placed two personal ads, and spent a few years going through candidates.

Yes, there were local candidates, too, but didn't feel like I had to confine myself to the local pool.

Call me picky.

Well, I think the women were responding to a smart, good looking, multi-talented research scientist.

You wrote: "you really need to take a minute to just sit down with yourself to seriously examine just why 'in the world' your relationships in the past have not worked out..."

Well, let's see, my first relationship was with my high school English and Art teacher--that one went pretty good for eleven years, but I got tired of her drunkenness, beating me, brandishing firearms, etc.

My relationship with "C" went splendidly for maybe ten years, and we parted amiably when she moved out of state to care for an ailing relative.

My relationship with "D" went badly because she was a battering psychopath.

The last "serious" relationship, with "B" only lasted a few months, from summer to fall of 2005. We just jumped into that too soon.

There's really not a lot of mystery there.

The current lady and I have been friends since 2005. We finally decided that we liked each other enough and knew each other enough to try the romance thing.

She's my best friend. And I'm in love with her.

If this one doesn't work out, I'll probably look closer to home.

August 25, 2009
12:33 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi MsGuided,

Truthfully, the emotional disconnect and trashing our relationship hurt much more than the mere sex outside of our relationship. If the relationship gets repaired, the sex on the side will fade to insignificance in my mind.

I have compassion for Human Neuroticism, and I am, after all, not there to take care of her needs regularly.

August 25, 2009
8:40 am
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lollipop3
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WD,

If I may interject....

You said:

"Well, let's see, my first relationship was with my high school English and Art teacher--that one went pretty good for eleven years, but I got tired of her drunkenness, beating me, brandishing firearms, etc.

My relationship with "C" went splendidly for maybe ten years, and we parted amiably when she moved out of state to care for an ailing relative.

My relationship with "D" went badly because she was a battering psychopath.

The last "serious" relationship, with "B" only lasted a few months, from summer to fall of 2005. We just jumped into that too soon. "

....

I believe what you've stated above is the point that TBT was trying to make when she suggested that you deeply and honestly examine why those relationships didn't work.

You have listed off the "reasons" why the relationships ended(none of which having anything to do with you?) but it doesn't appear that you have examined what your part was in them or why you chose battering psychopaths who drank too much in the first place.

I truly believe that until we begin to take a real, honest look at ourselves and take our own responsibility for our lives and are accountable to ourselves for our own decisions....we are destined to continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again.

I'm not trying to judge you WD and I hope you don't take it that way. Believe me, I've been there. But from an outsider looking in and judging by what you have written about this relationship, it appears that the writing is on the wall.

Of course, this is only my opinion and you certainly don't have to try to convince me of anything. I just thought I understood the point that TBT was trying to make and wanted to try to build on that. This is supposed to be a site to help us, help each other, learn about ourselves after all.....

Lolli

August 25, 2009
9:12 am
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CraigCo
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WD.

So, clearly you've made some bad choices in women, not unlike myself.

Wouldn't the next logical step be to understand what part we played in the demise of our relationship(s) & uncover the deep seated reasons that triggered our dysfunctional thinking patterns so that we can work toward a solution?

August 25, 2009
1:33 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi lolli, Hi CraigCo,

CraigCo,

Well, if you believe you have deep seated reasons leading you to have dysfunctional thinking patterns that lead to the demise of your relationships then it is probably a good idea to try to uncover them.

Hi Lolli,

You wrote: "but it doesn't appear that you have examined what your part was in them or why you chose battering psychopaths who drank too much in the first place."

With all due disrespect, you are spouting psychobabble and do not have the faintest idea what you are talking about, and I urge you at all costs to avoid speaking that way to other people.

August 25, 2009
2:48 pm
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lollipop3
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Interesting.

I guess I never thought of taking responsibility for our choices as being psychobabble, but ok. Apparently self-awareness and insight are not topics that you care to discuss.

Well then...carry on and ahh, good luck to you.

August 25, 2009
2:56 pm
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lollipop3
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WD...I do have a question in the interest of clarity...

What about my post came across as "spouting psychobabble"?

August 25, 2009
5:06 pm
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StronginHim77
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WD-

I think Lollipop was trying to state simply what most of us on these threads with histories of unsuccessful, toxic relationships, have learned: at some point we need to learn and gain understanding of WHY we gravitated towards unsuitable partners. Until we address and work through understanding "why," our personal histories will continue to repeat themselves.

If this constitutes "psychobabble," then the psychologist and psychiatrists who have worked with me on these very issues must hold worthless Ph.D.'s in same, since this is what they taught me?

In any event we will be here to pick up the pieces, should this relationship prove as unfruitful as the precedents. And we shall all be sorry to learn of it. No one wants to see anyone else suffer emotional devastation needlessly.

- Ma Strong

August 25, 2009
5:20 pm
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Shaney
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WD -

What is it about Lolli's and CraigCo's posts that would make you take such a defensive position?

I didn't see anything in their posts that would warrant that sort of reaction.

Maybe you can explain?

August 26, 2009
12:43 am
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CraigCo
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WD,

Hmm...that seemed rather like a bit of a snippy retort. I didn't mean to upset you at all. I was simply offering my conjecture on your significant other issues.
So, am I to believe then that you are issue free? If so, that begs the question, "what are you doin here then"?

Anyway, hope you aren't cranky with me now. Peace!

Respectfully, Crg

August 26, 2009
1:04 am
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Worried_Dad
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Yeah well, I should never bite people's heads off before I've had my morning coffee. Sorry about that. Wierd, normally I am a morning person. I'm just stressed out about trying to get lots of work done before departing on this high stakes trip.

Let me try again with a clearer head.

First of all, I've had some hard times in relationships and some good times. I don't really see my history of relationships as one big series of train wrecks.

I can understand CraigCo not knowing me very well, but I would expect Lolli to know me better.

I am a psychologically sophisticated person, and I am pretty healthy. I have done a heck of a lot of work on myself to get that way. I know myself and I understand very well.

I understand my strengths and weakness and blind points and areas that can use improvement. There are always things that need improvement.

And I have studied my history of relationships with a microscope. There really is no mystery there for me.

So Lolli came across as inattentive--as in she doesn't appear to have read my posts very carefully, and also patronizing. And just plain wrong.

The mistake is in over-"psychologizing." Shit happens and life goes on. There is no deep mystery there.

Take my relationship with "A."

You really don't need to be a psychologist to understand why a 17 year old virgin might be attracted to a beautiful, talented woman, who he has experienced transference with because she is his high school teacher. What teenage boy hasn't been hot for teacher once or twice?

And you need not invoke any special psychopathology to explain why a seventeen year old might not be sophisticated enough to recognize that the woman might have a real problem until he was deep in the yogurt.

And yes, I am aware of how that relationship "set me up" for future problems.

Every relationship, whether successful or unsuccessful, provides opportunities for learning.

August 26, 2009
1:49 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi CraigCo,

You asked: "So, am I to believe then that you are issue free?"

Of course not, I posted here because I am having an ongoing issue with my girlfriend.

And when I made the post I was feeling lower than a rattlesnake's nipples. Which is pretty darn low.

I am currently enjoying the Denial stage of grieving. Or maybe I am just hopeful.

August 26, 2009
8:35 am
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lollipop3
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"I am a psychologically sophisticated person, and I am pretty healthy. I have done a heck of a lot of work on myself to get that way. I know myself and I understand very well.

I understand my strengths and weakness and blind points and areas that can use improvement. There are always things that need improvement.

And I have studied my history of relationships with a microscope. There really is no mystery there for me.

So Lolli came across as inattentive--as in she doesn't appear to have read my posts very carefully, and also patronizing. And just plain wrong."

WD,
I'm sorry you feel that way however, I find your pompous and condescending attitude annoying and rude (as ususal) so I will respond in kind....

As for me being "just plain wrong".....that is your opinion and I disagree.

As for you being psycholoically healthy with a clear understanding of what your issues are.....I also strongly disagree. And I disagree BECAUSE I have followed your threads/posts over the years.

Having said all that...good luck with your current relationship...it sounds like a winner.

August 26, 2009
10:43 am
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glittered when he walked
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WD,

A belated expression of condolonce to you.

best of luck to you in your choice of action.

I must admit, I don't have a good feeling about your decision to continue with the relationship. But it's not my decision to make...it's yours.

Please consider this: what manner of person does this to another? multiple partners..ads for discreet encounters? and the reason is apprently a feeling of inadequacy/sexual inadequacy? What kind of person turns down good sex for bad sex? If this manner of person is one with whom you can make a happy life, then so be it. Sorry it just gives me considerable pause. Yeah..I know..that's quasi-judgment on my part. It's just not something I would take on. so your choice makes me squirm. I don't subscribe to the theory that once a cheater always a cheater...but her illogic here indicates to me that there is some deep seated turmoil in her.

the good news is..you can take your time. again..it's your call and best of luck in whichever path you choose.

August 26, 2009
11:57 am
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StronginHim77
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Glittered said it all. And quite well.

- Ma Strong

August 26, 2009
2:44 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Lolli,

No it is not merely my "opinion" that you are wrong--I just happen to know that you are wrong.

Of course you and I haven't gotten along very well. As I recall a few years back you were part of the bully gang whose ring leader was asked to leave the site.

So no, you dropping into threads asking where folks want support in order to put in a few digs does not function well for me.

Feel free to just leave me the heck alone.

August 26, 2009
3:35 pm
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lollipop3
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I will leave you alone WD, but not without saying that we were not a "bully gang", nor did we have a "ring leader".

We were a group of strong, intelligent, independent, free-thinking women that had just had enough of your bullshit. And we told you so.

Too bad for you that it didn't "function well" with the twisted, narcissistic, self-aggrandising and warped view you have of yourself.

Now I'll leave you alone you Napoleon complex having twerp.

August 26, 2009
4:03 pm
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It No Longer Matters
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Worried Dad, I have mostly refrained from this thread. You will do what you will do and there is nothing any of us can say or do to stop you. I made excuses for my cheater for 10 months before it was just a glaring pink elephant in the middle of the room. I wanted to buy his bullshit and I did. Now I regret it. Maybe your situation will work out differently than mine but I seriously doubt it. Good luck anyway.

Bitsy

August 26, 2009
6:28 pm
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andii
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Hey wd!

Must suck to come here for support and get attacked. May I suggest don't attack back- don't name call back, it's not going to do any good. Unless of course, you are willing to follow the suggestions and advice as well as agree with, the person attacking you. Then there might be peace. Compliance is just oober important to some people. The old my way or the highway thing. So...I say let that all go.

Sounds like this is something you really want to do. So there must be a reason. I don't mean a reason such as you love her. I mean that there must be a reason for you choosing this path. There's something in life you will learn while on this path.

Have you been talking with her on the phone and such? What are you planning to do while you're there?

August 26, 2009
8:35 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi andii,

Yes, the combination of verbal abuse and amateur psychoanalysis is always disturbing.

About my impending trip and mission of love--Yes, I suppose the Universe is trying to teach me something here.

Hopefully what I will learn is the value of working hard to resolve problems in relationships.

August 27, 2009
7:34 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Oh get over yourself. It was outrageous that that particular person (certainly not a ringleader) was asked to leave while you continued to be abusive whenever you thought it was warranted...while everyone else was supposed to tread on eggshells around you.

I have never been part of any gang but your dismissive, arrogant responses to any suggestion that you look inside yourself confirms what a lot of us already believe.

And as for the 'combination of verbal abuse and amateur psychoanalysis' being disturbing..?

Couldn't have put it better myself!

But hey... I stand in awe of a sex wizard such as yourself.

August 27, 2009
8:30 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Sleepless,

Thanks for dropping by to dispense a little gratuitous verbal abuse.

Have a great life.

August 27, 2009
9:13 pm
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lollipop3
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It's the same as it ever was with you WD. You act like a pompous, arrogant ass and talk down to people and insult people but whenever anyone gives it back to you, you cry victim. Poor little WD, always the victim

Anyone reading this thread can see who started the "verbal abuse" and it certainly wasn't me or Sleepless.

But fear not our well adjusted little sexual wizard, you've still got andii to feed your narcisstic supply.

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