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zax here, I really need help, please.
October 23, 2006
8:10 pm
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southgoingzax
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maybe your ex just didn't know how to say no, properly?

October 23, 2006
8:12 pm
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healintime
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A year later I look back at the whole thing.

She is nuts - I love her dearly, but she has some serious issues that she needs to work on and had been acting out with all her closest friends for about a year (asked one of them to pick between his new girlfriend and her friendship with her - he did, she lost the friendship). Crazymaking personified.

But my ex had managed to yank my chain even when I was in another hemisphere. He broke my trust - he had agreed to respect my feelings and said that he understood some of her "stuff" and would steer clear.

He didn't. I was gone - and had started to make good boundaries - so he gave me a little backlash. He got the narcissistic supply of feeling like two grown women were in a global catfight over him. Then he tried to make me feel like I was the unreasonable one and that I was making a fuss - then he basically stuck up for her after years of being brutal about her - saying that I had no right to "hurt her feelings."

October 23, 2006
8:12 pm
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southgoingzax
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healin?

October 23, 2006
8:14 pm
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healintime
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I'm here - I read the Bancroft book right about then and started to look at his behavior with my therapist.

October 23, 2006
8:15 pm
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healintime
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She pointed out - I will never forget it - that between his ex, me, and my friend - he had been bouncing women's feelings off at least two parties for as long as I'd known him.

In the beginning I was a way of yanking his ex's chain. then she mine - and when I was far enough removed, he introduced one of my friends into the equation.

October 23, 2006
8:16 pm
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healintime
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My point is that when men who have control issues start to feel threatened - they sometimes rally the troops. If they can't control you one on one, then the shapes start to come into play.

October 23, 2006
8:19 pm
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southgoingzax
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But he did cancel the date. It was still crummy of him, and he should have listened to you before, and he should have understood why you were upset and not stuck up for her - but he did cancel the date. I mean, I understand your point of view, but maybe he was only thinking of the immediate future, not six weeks into it - maybe he thought 6 weeks was enough time to put things in a different perspective?

I did read the Bancroft book. I really did - but P didn't seem to be that mean. He wasn't. I don't know why he is being that way now, I mean, he told me I needed to take the world by the balls more, I needed to be more sure of myself...if that's what he wants, why would he be trying to cut me down and make me feel bad about myself? Please, I don't want him to be a bad person. Am I really so pathetic as this? That I really can't see his manipulations?

October 23, 2006
8:20 pm
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healintime
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If P knows that the Sensei had an unhealthy interest in your relationship - or is attracted to him - then it sounds to me like he was doing some bouncing.

October 23, 2006
8:23 pm
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southgoingzax
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you're saying, just like strong has said, that he is trying to get people on his side, to believe he is the sane one and I am the crazy one. That, although he wasn't the one to tell sensei I was going to make him quit, that he made use of the situation by trying to tell me in a subtle way that sensei was on his "side"?

October 23, 2006
8:24 pm
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healintime
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Yes, he did cancel the date. But he wasn't interested in the date - he was interested in getting a reaction from me. He knew she was off the wall - he had told me that he completely understood my perspective.

It was a major pattern in the relationship - using me/his ex as reasons why he couldn't be emotionally straight with either me, or his ex.

October 23, 2006
8:25 pm
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doubleloss
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zax. just came in. gosh girl! you did nothing wrong, i've read the whole thing.

to me is sounds like sensei is taking the opportunity to make her own drama (she knows things are iffy between you 2 right), and all of you are buying into it.

sorry, but P's reaction is childish and immature and again...see how he's flipping things around and making it YOUR fault. You have the right to talk to whoever you want and say whatever you need to say, asking someone to stay our of your business is normal. My friend, walking on shells is not a good sign

let's say that yes, you did make a mistake....so what? p's reaction is totally out or proportion!! c'mon, that is why we have language, so if there is a misunderstanding things can be cleared up...so please don't buy the b.s. that you betrayed him or something like that. as healing said: you are just standing for yourself, and guess what,, people don't like that (particularly if they are used to you not doing that). i'll be here for a while.

sending you hugs, double

October 23, 2006
8:28 pm
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healintime
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Exactly - he gets to say, subtly "everyone thinks your nuts - but don't worry little lady, I set them straight!" Meanwhile he's telling you that you're an immature, directionless mess. And yes, he's saying that Sensei's on his side - worried that your feelings will mean that she loses him. Throw in the fact that she's been "obsessed" with your relationship and he started with "I shouldn't tell you this.." and was breaking a confidence - and I find it hard to believe that P wasn't trying to mess with your head.

October 23, 2006
8:30 pm
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southgoingzax
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oh god. what do I do? He didn't make sensei say that - he didn't manipulate her into saying it, my head hurts so much....I can't bear this, healin, I can't...I really thought he was a good man, just with some commitment issues, nothing this horrible. Please I don't want to see him like this, this is horrible - I thought he was good. Can't this just all be in my head? The fight on saturday was due to tension, of not having discussed where we were in the together/not-together saga, and the discussion on sunday just a long talk where we aired our grievances...and this, this just a screw-up in that I thought he wouldn't mind and he did mind? That I didn't think it would look as bad as it did? Why can't it be that simple?

October 23, 2006
8:34 pm
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healintime
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Great point Double -

Sensei sounds like a bit of a crazymaker, too. If she weren't she would have come to you to talk about things.

Zax, you have nothing to feel badly about. ESPECIALLY is things have been volatile between you and Sensei.

Ideally, you could find a new Dojo where it was all about the karate and you didn't have to deal with this. She's the sensei and he's the instructor - both positions of relative authority. Do you trust either of them enough not to use those positions to yank your chain right now?

October 23, 2006
8:35 pm
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southgoingzax
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Maybe it is that simple. Maybe he will calm down and call me and say he overreacted.

crap. hi double. I'm crapalicious. I can't believe this is happening to me - it's like a bad dream. Everything was on the road to getting better, last night. Just one day...

Really, healin? and double? Do you think so too? Why can't I tell what's right and what's wrong anymore?

October 23, 2006
8:35 pm
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doubleloss
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well, because he doesn't want it to be simple... it IS simple, is a misunderstanding, a noesy jealous person that is taking advantage of the situation and P that seems to be making this yet another excuse to torture you. Zax, you are not crazy.

is he evil, probably not, but just cowardly and he's playing with you, like you are a little mouse and he is this big cat, and i wish i could just go and give him a good couple of kicks in the ass... i can throw a mean kick!

October 23, 2006
8:40 pm
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healintime
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For the record - I couldn't eat or sleep for four days after I got the email from my friend letting me know about the date. I was a -complete- mess.

Most of my friends in the U.S. were checking in a couple of times a week to be supportive of my transition (biiiig move) and were wonderful. She chose a really vulnerable time to make a play for a man who she knew, detail by detail, had devastated me and bent me into an emotional pretzel. He took the opportunity to have one last yank.

It was a really awful time - but I had some distance working in my favour and it was the beginning of the home stretch in terms of my accepting who he was and what he was.

October 23, 2006
8:44 pm
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southgoingzax
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but I have worked so hard to get where I am - I have endured the relationship tensions with P since the beginning, I have endured the whispering gossip at the start, the fights between P and I, the vindictive attack sensei made on me during my purple belt discussion (which was supposed to be about my test, which she turned into trying to get the scoop on me and P's relationship), I have endured the comments that I am just a little "P" with no mind of my own, to get to where I am. I worked so hard. How can I let these people beat me? This is something I have wanted for 7 years - how can I give up now?

And, this is the real deal. Other schools don't get it, don't teach "it" - it's a sport, or a hobby, here it's a lifestyle. I have shopped around. I would be giving up the best education I could get here. How much meaning would my next belt have if I got it somewhere else, somewhere with much lower standards?

I am supposed to carry myself with dignity and be above the fray. I should be unperterbable. I shouldn't have let her get to me. And, okay, she wouldn't have, if P hadn't told me what she said. But I still can't believe he did it to hurt me. Why can't I beleieve that?

October 23, 2006
8:45 pm
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healintime
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Girls, had I known about the boards at that point I would have been glued to the keyboard and my thread would have read "My Head is Going to Explode."

A year later, I look back at his dramas, her dramas and the fact that they needed a supporting cast. Had I been feeling more centred - I would have simply not responded to either of them. Accepted that they were actively interested in hurting me. And walked away gracefully to let them go about the business of hurting each other.

Zax, Doubles's right - cat and mouse. You did nothing wrong. It is -not- a drama. He shook a hornet's nest and is now indignant that he's been stung. You need some bug spray.

October 23, 2006
8:47 pm
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healintime
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Wouldn't it be great if we could deal with each other's men...

October 23, 2006
8:54 pm
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healintime
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Don't know Zax - why did I keep responding to my ex's emails for another five months until he set up yet another shape by wanting to 'workshop' his new realtionship and how he was handling it with his ex-ex, with me. It was the final straw - but really, the final straw should have been our first valentine's day when (I can barely stand to write this) he invited me to spend the night then left when I arrived with my bags at his apartment to have his date with his ex in the afternoon. He told me that things were "complicated" and she couldn't accept that it was over - so he hadn't metioned me (we'd been seeing each other for quite some time by this stage).

He -actually- managed to make it sound as though he was being respectful of her feelings and that I was being churlish.

That would have been a good time to leave and end things. Why couldn't I accept that he was a ratfink? Why didn't I just block him when I found out that he was going on a date with my "friend."

October 23, 2006
8:55 pm
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southgoingzax
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sometimes I think these boards help and sometimes I think they just help me perpetuate the drama, the misery, that I am in, that I use this forum to fuel the fire. Does that make sense? I mean, okay, so P overreacted. But he did answer his phone and he did send me a response email, niether of which he would have done two years ago. So his reaction was out of porportion and overblown, but at least he told me how he felt. Isn't that something? And, he's not home from work and the gym yet, so maybe he will have calmed down enough to realize I didn't do anything intentional and he will call me back. And maybe he will realize that he needs to be more careful with what he tells me about karate. Maybe I just got carried away, you know, because things are still so shaky and this seemed like a big enough mistake to ruin everything I worked to get back.

October 23, 2006
8:56 pm
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doubleloss
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zax. i'm of the mind that it is YOUR right to keep doing what you want, where you want. I know many may disagree and I have wondered, I mean, seeing xbf on occassion is making my progress REALLY slow, but eventually i'll have to see him, so i rather do that now, than be this mess - again- in 7 months. i will not quit dancing, nor going to my classes (also, the BEST teacher in town), and although I have cut back a lot on the weekly dances to avoid seeing him, I'm not oging to quit all together because that will just hurt me more in the long run.

so, think about the quitting. get on your stront cloak for the class and then fall apart at home - ok, that didn't sound good - mmmh, that's what i've been doing though, no wonder why i'm exhausted, sick, etc.... but...getting good at dancing...

oh yes, i would like to go a kick healings' too. i am a bit ragy today, the meds, didn't know cold medicine could mess w/me like that.

think that YOU want to be the CAT!

October 23, 2006
8:57 pm
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cyndra820
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Zax,
Hi, I'm Cyndra.

I've read the post and have to agree that part of it is Sensei being jealous of your relationship and jumping at the chace be make crazy. If you've had problems with her in the past and he knows this I find his behavior unacceptable. He has no reason to be angry. He violated her trust in telling you things. You didn't do anything wrong.

Why do you feel bad for standing up for yourself? Don't you have a right to correct any misunderstandings? Do you need P to do it for you? You had every right to defend yourself. Please don't doubt that you did the right thing. You did nothing wrong.

It does seem P may be rallying the troops, but what is it he hopes to gain? I don't like that he seems to be manipulating your emotions. That bothers me. You don't have to clear anything with him when you are defending yourself, especially since he indicated he would have asked you not to say anything.

October 23, 2006
8:57 pm
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cyndra820
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Zax,
Hi, I'm Cyndra.

I've read the post and have to agree that part of it is Sensei being jealous of your relationship and jumping at the chace be make crazy. If you've had problems with her in the past and he knows this I find his behavior unacceptable. He has no reason to be angry. He violated her trust in telling you things. You didn't do anything wrong.

Why do you feel bad for standing up for yourself? Don't you have a right to correct any misunderstandings? Do you need P to do it for you? You had every right to defend yourself. Please don't doubt that you did the right thing. You did nothing wrong.

It does seem P may be rallying the troops, but what is it he hopes to gain? I don't like that he seems to be manipulating your emotions. That bothers me. You don't have to clear anything with him when you are defending yourself, especially since he indicated he would have asked you not to say anything.

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