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Yikes! I told his mother everything!
September 17, 2005
5:46 pm
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exoticflower
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He wrote to tell me that when he comes to visit his daughter he will 'be with either his mother or his father', and I was livid. I wrote it all out and e-mailed it to his mother, letting her know that I will no longer allow anyone to treat me as an abuser, that I was the abused one, and will not be treated this way in the presense of my daughter ever again. Then I told her every little bit of it, and if she cares fine, but if not, I told her and that's that. I feel better about it anyway. I won't lay low and pretend to keep the peace that it never happened even while I am still being misrepresented, and as such, abused. If they want to treat me like a monster, let them, but I will not silently assume that role!

September 17, 2005
5:49 pm
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Randomwomen2
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good for you hunny i am glad you were able to take charge and stand up fpr yourself (((((((((ef))))))))))))))

September 17, 2005
6:10 pm
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exoticflower
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Thanks, rw2. if she doesn't accept it or uses it to slander me with her chums, fine. But I am not pretending it is ok to abuse me anymore, I am not hiding it, and I'm DSSSSOOOOOfreaked out now!...I TOLD someone in his world the truth, wow. And sure they'll never believe me, but still, wow. I'm shakey and yet feel better than I have in a long time. Don't care if they believe me, they suck, but I said it, I belive me and am comfortable! I allowed the truth, I refused their game... I can sit there and reasd happy as pie...I know and they know the truth, I'm not a bad person! I feel like they can't hurt me anymore at all!

September 17, 2005
6:18 pm
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Rasputin
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(((Flo)))) I am so proud of what you have done. Good for you. You have done the right thing. Even if they do not believe you, I feel that they respect you, esp if they see that you're so devoted to your daughter despite your situation as single mom.

BTW, I posted something on the other thread of Artist2 at the end "What the hell I am doing here." I hope you will read it honey!

In the meantime, do not freak out, we are here for you, your family and friends and we will support you all the way thru!

(((Hugs)))

September 17, 2005
6:51 pm
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exoticflower
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Thanks, Ras...but now I'm starting to panic a bit more.

September 17, 2005
7:01 pm
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Rasputin
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Do not panic honey. Do you have good gf whom you feel you can rely on, warm, caring and sensitive?

September 17, 2005
7:05 pm
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exoticflower
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yes, but she's on her 'date night' with her husband, and her kids have been sick so I think she really needs it and don't want to interupt her.

I feel now like they can contort this, like "what wad I thinkin" sort of. 0 to 90 in 5 minutes flat, huh? I just hate that I can be treated as an abuser, as some sort of monster and somehow I'M the one who has to defend myself...why am I defending myself for HIS lies and abuse?!

September 17, 2005
7:11 pm
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Rasputin
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Never mind honey. Just remember that God knows that you're kind, caring and truthful and He will give you victory.

Turn the other cheek by being peaceful, meek and kind even if they do not appreciate it.

I am here with you. I can chat with you till they arrive and when they do keep you in my prayers. (((Flo)))

September 17, 2005
7:20 pm
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exoticflower
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Oh, that's the big beef ras, they are coming from out of state for three days...him form NY, and them from CO! What sort of an insult is that, that they have to come from two different states to control me or something!? Come ON! That's absurdly insulting and hurtful, I love my little girl and I know he's great with her! What in the hell is wrong with these people? Why do they want me to feel like an animal? I'm NOT!

September 17, 2005
7:27 pm
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Rasputin
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This is projection of their reality honey but not to the truth. You are totally the opposite honey! You are very sweet, warm and caring person. Do not take their opinions personally. As coda people, we tend to take everything personally. Do not!!! Think of all the positive things I listed here about you and the good things people say about you.

Just treat them kindly, even if they do not deserve it or appreciate it. I know honey it is hard. But I will be keeping you in my prayers very shortly. I've always had people who hated me and accused me of all sorts of evil. So, I was in similar situation as yours honey. That's why I empathize with you, Flo!!

(((Warm Hug & Prayers)))

September 17, 2005
7:35 pm
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Neshema
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EF-

I am a bit lost. Okay, how long have you been dating him? Is he out of state and are his parents out of state too? He is coming for 3 days? What kind of abuse? Tell me specifics. I am not asking to defend him in anyway. I just want to know you better! Whatever he did, as the police told me when I took self defense, a good measure of how bad a guy is for you, is how uncomfortable he is making you. So, you are saying he made you so uncomfortable that you contacted his mother, because you didn't want that treatment in front of your kid. I think that says a lot right there. Listent to your instincts, hunny, and don't feel guilty for being a victim and taking action to avoid further harm. Hugs, Nesh

September 17, 2005
7:40 pm
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Neshema
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EF-

one more thing, I think you are strong to be assertive in demanding people be accountable to your and your daughter...nothing at all wrong with that. Maybe you just aren't used to sticking up for yourself (as I suspect, based on your night crew post), but if you aren't your own advocate, who will be? So, congratulations on starting a new life of being that strong, confident, no bullsh*t woman you want to be! Go look and in the mirror and tell yourself how great you are, how beautiful you are, how hot you are, how smart you are, how tough you are, and how you deserve a lot more than scraps!

September 17, 2005
8:01 pm
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exoticflower
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I really did used to be a no bulsh*t woman, when he and I where togeather he told me that I was 'safe' and that I could be 'gentle like I know you really are'. Tenderizeing the meat before the kill aurgh!

The post "what is crazymaking" says a lot of it, he was severely emotionally abusive and crazymaking, completely had me not knowing if I was coming or going, but I was in complete denial. It was really severe, scary, and I had postpartum depression that he used to further the illusion that I was a monster...I will find the post and post it here. We where togeeather for a couple of years before I got pregnant, but when I was pregnant I sort of started seeing him for being manipulative, not really stepping up to the plate, being sort of spoiled and not really respectful of me, noticing that he lied a lot, manipulated thigs, needed aproval in a way that was not healthy, and we broke up. back togeather about a year and a half ago, though doing the "I love you, there is no one else" while giving me an std dance. But, had started the abuse so strongly that I blamed myself, begged for HIM back after I caught him even though before I knew he was the one who wanted me back...all told, 4 years, we broke up about 6 months ago, and I've since been able to step back and see the dangerous game he played with me.

ras, that is so wise...this is a projection of their reality, so true! This was the last part of the letter, I think that covers that even though I don't feel confident right now abou tit: I said all I needed to.

******************************

I will not be treated like an abuser. I am not one,
nor have I ever been. I was just a very mistreated young lady who's
social support was manipulated so I would have none, suffering from
emotional and mental abuse and perfectly text book postpartum
depression. I tried to reach out to you, and to many people, but you
refused to hear me. At any rate, in my daughters presence I refuse to
be intimidated and made to feel like a monster again. I'm sorry I
have to tell you all of this, but for my own peace of mind and to keep
myself from lashing out and reacting in an unhealthy way to this I
must tell the truth and refuse the unhealthy
action that is expected of me. that is not me, and doesn't have to
be. I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to treat me this way without speaking out against it. I do not deserve this, it is completely insulting and innacurate of you to come here from two deifferent states to 'monitor' my behavior. Your son abused me, I am not the bad guy here.

*************************************

Above that was just a full account of the abuse, what I am learning in therapy, and that I am absolutely not a threat to anyone and as a lawyer she should know better than to treat me as guilty without even looking at teh facts, that I refuse to follow their code of silence if it means allowing myself to be treated as something I am not or extremely disrespected and insulted.

September 17, 2005
8:06 pm
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exoticflower
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Nesh, heres what I was looking for. he would usually yell in the direction of the open window so all of the neigbors would hear this stuff, too. This is what my life was like every day. He told me what medications I needed, what to tell my therapist was wrong with me, that my postpartum was a lie, that I was just dilusional, that I was an abusive monster, that I made him drink. He would deliberately push and push me even when I was just crying and agreeing with him to try and stop him, to make me lose it and as soon as I did he would call people, all sorts, and say he didn't know why I was doing this, that I was just snapped, act sugar sweet to me like he was just being supportive the whole time.

******************************

My ex would corner me and yell about how he couldn't take the abuse and for me to stop abusing him and leave him alone, all the while I was trying to cover my ears, to yell I don't want to talk to you!". He owuld continue to cry out "stop abusing me! WHy are you doing this" while I was locked in the bathroom crying and trying to make some sense of it...I would come out when things calmed down, and he would walk over to where I was laying in bed, crying and shaken and confused by then, and would say something softly about how I have to stop this, I am scaring the baby and him, he knows this isn;t me. I say "I didn't do anything! I didn't want you near me!" And he jumps back throwing his hands up to cover his face yelling "STOP ABUSING ME!". I start crying hysterically, durring which time he calls his parents, keeping the phone very near my hysterics and says "I'm so scared, honey, we all just want to help you"...I scream "Stop it! Your lying! He's lying I didn't DO ANYTHING!!!!". He holds the phone out to let them hear me scream. He pretends to cry. CRAZYMAKING. I go and look crazy.

September 17, 2005
8:08 pm
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bonita1
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EF,Honey,

Let me get this straight...your baby's daddy was physically and emotionally abusive and you left him in NY and you moved midwest. But, baby's daddy is still emotionally abusive and manipulating his parents to believe you were the abusive monster that he was?

Now, they are all coming to see the baby? Are they planning to take your baby? What is the deal here?

If they did not know that their son was an abusive monster but they think he is an angel and a helluva catch, they will probably believe him and not you.

If you said the opposite, and he denies it, then you are still the abusive monster but now you are wacky too and a liar.

So, I am asking myself why they are coming en masse to see the baby? Do they want to take her away from you?

Don't get me wrong. I think you did the right thing in trying to disabuse his parents of the notion that their son is better than sliced bread. But, that is the fantasy that they will tend to grab onto and hold onto for dear life. They will not want to see his seamy underbelly.

~~bonbon

September 17, 2005
8:14 pm
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bonita1
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wow, honey!! I posted before I read your post. Weird!!

He is evil. That is the only thing that I can think of. Get a security camera and have it on both of you so that you have proof he is the wacky one. I fear he will try to use his parents against you in a custody battle.

What a freak and a weirdo! UGH!

September 17, 2005
8:22 pm
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Neshema
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EF-

You MADE him drink? How can you force him to drink? I think that says it all. This man sounds very dangerous to me....no wonder you feel you need help. I think you better run, not walk. I agree with everything bon bon said. I think you need to protect yourself and your child, and think about security cameras. They are cheap and easy to install. You need to document everything, and also get help from the women's shelter. They can advise you as to how to break the cycle and protect yourself and retain custody so you don't look like the bad guy. You need all the resources you can get. Please don't tell me you have feelings for this guy.

September 17, 2005
9:15 pm
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mamacinnamon
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EF:

I just read above also before I read Bonita and Nesh and I have to be the third person. I was thinking they are gonna try to take the baby coz you are crazy in their eyes. He's set you up.

Do you have someone who can come over while they are there? So there is NO misunderstandings as to who is acting how later. I agree w/ Nesh. The video camera idea is great as long as they cannot see them, but you'd have to be sure they sat in one specific area.

I, as usual being the extremist, am not trying to scare you. My evil x tried to kidnap my son; tried to say I was a terrible om and take them away thru the cour; He didn't get anywhere coz my attorney was ahead of him.

Please watch your back. Be prepared for the worse and then go w/ the flow of things till you determine what the deal is.

We are here for ya

September 17, 2005
9:53 pm
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bonita1
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Yes, ef!!

Have a couple of friends with you, preferably a couple of burly guys, bouncer types. Watch your back.

September 17, 2005
10:11 pm
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exoticflower
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He brought someone with him last time he visited too...he doesn't really want a child, he just needs to feel like their poor victim baby, like maybe they better come and support him through the trauma as I am so crazy and all...just to manipulate my emotions. Had I known this sooner than him already buying the ticket, I would have told him that her grandparents may certainly come to see her to visit, as they have before, but that they may certainly not come to 'watch me', that is too insulting and degrading for me to allow. I would have told him that he has every right to call the state and ask for police protection or a state mediator if he sees me as somehwo dangerous or abusive, but that I would not allow this sort of slander on my charactor. Alas, thought too late, but next time.

It's not about wanting the child, they visit often, it's about feeling like a victim, about continually creating a scenario where he has to be prodected from me becasue this is just what he needs from his parents and others to feel good about himself. Typical of emotional abusers. He can't possibly take her, she has always been in my custody, I am in therapy and have been for some time, I have never refused him a visit, there is a log of his not contacting her at all except for trying to make me do phone calls, no letters, no cards, nothing else. Well, one e-mail. But nothing else in four months. There is no way in hell they have any grounds to take my child at all, nor do they want to. These crazy people just want to protect their son and their denial, and he just wants me to feel discredited. I told the truth just to refuse to play into that dysfunction and to make clear that it is no longer acceptable to me. If they ask to hug me I will say they are not welcome to, if he crazymakes, I will autibally acknowlege it-"D-, you just said - and now you are saying - instead. We will have to leave while you are behaving abusively".

I am just refusing abuse or submissive agreement to it anyway. I will keep the state guidelines in my back pocket incase I need them, and will not make any sudden decisions without looking at them first.

Well, I actually feel BETTER now. I honestly know that now that i have told the truth, I will not feel so subject to the crazymaking, just becasue I have aknowleged it at all. I told every little detail, and it felt good. I turned on the light, and if they all want to walk around withtheir eyes closed and try to jump out at me yelling 'boo to see me jump and say I'm skitish...well, I thin k I can see this behavior as silly and not deserving of an ounce of dignified aknowlegement now, more or less any serious frustration!

September 17, 2005
10:12 pm
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exoticflower
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Good idea about the guys, too! I'll get right on that!:)

September 17, 2005
10:24 pm
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mamacinnamon
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EF:

Just watching out for you. PLEASE have someone there when they are there as a witness, maybe even two since thre are 3 of them.

I know you will not misbehave, but who's to say they won't knock things over, trash the room and then all 3 say you went nuts. You NEED an alli w/ you. My ex had his wife lie for him. When it's 2 against 1 it's not always easy for the Judge to see. I know you are protecting yourself. Then do it all the way. Have someone there w/ you and DO NOT let them stay w/ you. They come for visits from x time to x time. Can even be several times a day, but DO NOT leave them in the room alone w/ the baby and DO NOT let them stay and DO NOT be there and not have a witness. PLEASE

You can go by the letter of the law, but sometimes the system does not work. Specially when up against conspirators (liars).

September 17, 2005
10:36 pm
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exoticflower
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No, the thing is that he is only an EMOTIONAL abuser, now that I hacve told them he will be on his best behavior to discredit me. He is a ND graduate with honors, the whole thing is very systematic and calculated, not like he's gonna bash heads or they're going to try to call the police and accuse me of something I haven't done, this is getting way out of porportion really. The problem I have is that I feel it is degrading and discusting for his parents to come from a different state to oversee and make sure that I don't step out of line, knowing nothing of the abuse and wahtnot. I was simply telling his mother about it all becasue I refuse to sit silent and be treated like an abuser when I am not and they have never heard the other side...not that they would care. They are just there becasue they are overinvolved and practically still breastfeed him, enjoy him being a victim of the poor white trash reather than his girlfriend (a terrible shame upon their house for some time). They just want to come and stick their nose in the air and protect their wittle bitty baby boy. HE doesn't want anything but that, he is seriously sick in his need for their eaffection and aproval. He just wants to have them there and try to crazymake me so he can say again "oh, she abuses me...see how I'm a wonderful guy? Oh, the victimhood". Then they leave, he uses it all to gain sympathy of his rich friends and the many girls he sleeps with while his parents go home able to see yet abgain that their poor baby desperately needs them, that I'm bad, ergo he is WONDERFUL. But, that's there problem. it's all in the open now, if they believe me or not. I have nothing to fear, hide, or protect anymore. I was abused, the things they are protecting him from are lies and I know it, and somewhere in their denial ridden minds, they know it. No more saying it's ok, I told the truth. They can't take my child, and now that I think about it, they would be more hard pressed to now than before, they know I am telling people, therapists, my support group, my friends, my family, they know that the abuse is out there. Believe it or not, they know that it was overheard, that they are coming out to 'protect' him from a woman that sends a weekly newsletter to everyone in their family, e-mails with Grandma regularly, just had her for a visit. I am a good mother, I pose no threat, I refuse to tolerate being treated like a criminal. PERIOD.

September 17, 2005
10:53 pm
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EF:

As I have stated, I tend to go to the extreme, but I dealt w/ the extreme. No, I am not trying to blow anything out of proportion. Just want you to be protected from any slander that could come across later. You do as you see fit. Afterall, you are there and in the situation. I can only advise from what I went thru, which I wouldn't wish on anyone. Not trying to upset you or go way out into cyberspace really. My head is on my shoulders and not goin anywhere.

September 17, 2005
11:11 pm
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exoticflower
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Oh Mama, I can hardly blame you, what HELL you went th=rough. I am just trying to keep my head, it sounds terrible, but that's what happened behind closed doors. Public abuse from him is a little different. It's hard to explain his sort of abuse, but it's just enough to always make me look crazy. Good god, I couldn't IMAGINE being able to handle what YOU did! Maybe that should be my thought "well, it's not Mammas ex..."(((mama))))))))

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