Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Wow, who wrote the stuff at the beginning of this page
January 7, 2009
9:42 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I read with great trepidation the articles at the beginning of this page.

Whoever wrote them obviously has a huge agenda to push and I was hoping when I came here I could find unbiased articles and info regarding abuse.

They state in the articles that women and men abuse each other at fairly even rates but then go on to justify the abuse of men by women as acceptable because "men are stronger" and that men are annoyed by the abuse as though it doesn't actually mean anything.

The author also tries to justify the abuse of children by women as nothing because women spend more time with children. Does anyone REALLY TRUELY care that because women spend more time with children this makes is AOK that they abuse more or even as well.

As a man who has been abused by my former wife (to the point of being put into hospital) , it angers me to no end to see someone absolutely make the abuse heaped on me as "NOTHING".

How can we ever hope to reduce abuse in society if we don't acknowledge that abuse happens across all gender , economic and race and religious lines instead of what we are doing now. Unless you are a part of the right group "WOMEN", then abuse doesn't matter.

January 7, 2009
10:50 am
Avatar
gone4good
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You know what? Not everyone believes that women are the only ones abused. Some of the craziest people I know are women. In fact, as a woman, I'm more afraid of women in general. One girl I knew in high school, waited for her X inside of his barn, when he got home from a date with someone else, she beat him with a crow bar. Abuse is abuse and I know there are a lot of us out there that have compassion through experience about situations like the one you were in. I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you. But also, it's nice to hear the other side of things. I don't think any of us wanna be filled with biased crap and it takes a lot of courage to read something that is like that. I think it's good of you to inform others what it feels like from a different perspective. The only way to break down the walls is to speak up. In fact, I'm grateful to hear a man communicating about what happened to him. It really does matter.

January 7, 2009
11:05 am
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yup. And mothers, in particular, do some of the scariest shit of all.

January 7, 2009
11:28 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree, but as a man it is extremely frustrating to try and get help when essentially ALL the assistance that is out there for abuse victims is geared towards women.

I wonder sometimes if the stats are a self fulfilling prophecy. That stats on the front page state that the majority of injuries are on women and that abuse injuries are more than all other types of injuries combined but that the injuries to men are not like this. My question would be , is it any wonder that this is the case when society barely even acknowledges that men are abused in the first place. It becomes a vicious cirle.

Society says "Men are not victims and therefore don't help, and we know that because men never come for help".

January 7, 2009
11:34 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I meant to say

'Society says "Men are not victims and therefore don't need help, and we know this because men never come for help" '

January 7, 2009
11:41 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am a bit of a stats nut and I like looking at them ALOT, perhaps too much.

I always fascinates me to see people manipulate them to their own end.

This was done with skill on the front page of this website, especially with the stats on child abuse. The author throws in an opinion but trys to relay it as fact and tries to make something that should be totally irrelevant , relevant. Why should it matter that mothers spend more time with kids and this leads to more child abuse.

Is "per hour abuse" rates really important when you break it down by gender OR is number of kids being abused the really important number.

To me what is important is STOPPING CHILD ABUSE period.

If the author of the front page is reading , I would like to suggest you remove the gender biased pieces you wrote and try and stick to the goal of getting rid of all forms of abuse.

January 7, 2009
11:44 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

For those that don't know about the front page I am referring to , here it is.

http://www.allaboutcounseling......tm#whomost

January 7, 2009
3:05 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Phillips,

You state - "I agree, but as a man it is extremely frustrating to try and get help when essentially ALL the assistance that is out there for abuse victims is geared towards women."

I have heard this concern expressed here before a few times. Periodically. Worried_Dad was very passionate and adamant about this topic and stated at one point that he was in the process of building a site for men, or one that was more balanced.

I have found other sites that deal with this issue in more depth and provide resources for each gender for therapy, healing, etc.

MaleSurvivor- http://www.malesurvivor.com

Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP - http://www.snapnetwork.org

Survivors of Incest Anonymous (SIA) - ww.siawso.org

I like this one, because it clearly states its mission.

Trauma Information Pages - http://www.trauma-pages.com

" These Trauma Pages focus primarily on emotional trauma and traumatic stress, including PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) and dissociation, whether following individual traumatic experience(s) or a large-scale disaster. The purpose of this site is to provide information for clinicians and researchers in the traumatic-stress field, including what goes on biologically in the brain during traumatic experience and its healing."

This site and forum discusses a wide array of topics - The Wounded Healer Journal (TWHJ) http://www.twhj.com,

This is a good discussion, but if I might add my two cents here - it would probably be more sensitive on a forum that is predominantly female, many of which have been abused by males, and their children abused by males, to have it on Liberation View instead of Support.

Liberation Brew is geared toward discussion on controversial or "triggery" subjects.

Whichever path you take, I wish you luck love and laughter on your healing journey.

January 7, 2009
4:09 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It isn't just about sensitivy though, it is about manipulating statistics to suit and end.

If you check out the link to the front page that I posted, the author goes out of their way to ignore, minimize abuse against MEN, what is more important to me is the author also does the same to abuse against children abused by women. I mean , come on, WE should all care about preventing / reducing abuse against children regardless of WHO is abusing them. The author unfortunatly believes that "Abuse per hour" is more important than the number of abuse cases. I used the term "Abuse per hour" as a means to try to explain why the author thinks the numbers are skewed because children spends more time with women without offering any proof that is children spend more with men, the numbers would even out, in fact if you look up stats on single father households you will find that the research shows that child abuse if alot lower in those situations.

The author also goes on the completely reduce the impact of abuse on men by women by ignoring the emotional toll it takes by ONLY looking at physical injury as the only factor that abuse entails.

January 7, 2009
4:14 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

One other note. When I refer to assistance that is offered to abused men, I was more referring to services offered by governments, and private agencies.

I personally believe that it is a vicious circle, men don't come forward because

a) They won't be believed

b) They will be ridiculed

c) There isn't much if any help available anyway

This in turn leads to no help being avail and as the author of the main page shows, this is absolutely true and they (not sure if HE or SHE) try to minimize the real impact due to men not coming forward and even offers their opinions that abuse don't really effect men anyway as the only emotions they have are ones of annoyance and self-rightesness.

Question: Can you imagine the reaction if the author had switched the words MEN and WOMEN around in that article.

January 7, 2009
8:00 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here is the article

"Who most often commits domestic violence?
Overwhelmingly, it's heterosexual men in relationships. However, if we refer just to the act of hitting or physically hurting another person, research statistics from the 1980's and early 1990's shows women are as likely or more likely than men to hit or physically harm a partner. But what is not well explained is many of these women who strike out are responding to a violent situation which has already been created by the male in the relationship. We must also understand on average men are much larger and better trained to physically defend themselves than women are; and therefore do not have the same reaction to violence directed at them. This is a very important part of battering, which for a lot of men is hard to understand. It is certainly just as wrong for a woman to hit a man as for a man to hit a woman. It's simply wrong, and no one should have to tolerate being hit by another person. However, in comparison, a man's reaction to a woman's violence is usually far less emotionally traumatic than a woman's reaction to a man's violent acts. The emotional reaction for men being hit by a woman is usually annoyance, anger and self-righteousness. The male might think, "She's got a lot of nerve, who does she think she is laying her hands on me". In contrast, the reaction for women is far more traumatic, most often involving varying amounts of fear or terror. When a 180-lb man who's been trained to punch, punches a 130lb woman, she's going to feel a lot different than when the 130-lb woman punches the 180lb man. Both because of physical size, and because of mind-set; women are not trained to think they can defend themselves; men are trained to think they can.

To point out an important statistic for women: in 1994, domestic violence was the leading cause of injury to women. Causing more injuries than muggings, stranger rapes, and car accidents combined. There are no such figures like that for men."

Phillips, do you have more recent statistics and sources you can cite? if so, maybe the SC, or the other powers that be, would know who wrote the article, and would be interested so they could update their statistics. Maybe the incidents of women battering men and children have increased. Theauthor and/or this site might cite the source of the stats this time as well.

Have you tried emailing the site admin? This link - http://www.allaboutcounseling......tactsc.cfm is at the bottom of each page of the discussions. It's a way to email the "SC", or administration of this site. I still think most of the folks at this site will adhere to the guidelines, so would be more apt to discuss this on Libs. It's not just religion and politics there. A lot of people take their sexual abuse and porn discussion threads over there out of sensitivity to those who have suffered from it themselves. It's just a courtesy thing.

January 7, 2009
8:37 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@bevdee:

What is "take it to LIBS", not sure what that is.

January 7, 2009
8:44 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I will email other stats to the site admin.

The problem isn't really OTHER STATS, it is now the author absolutely minimizes that stat they currently have.

for example.

Consider these statements from the front page.

"Who most often commits domestic violence?
Overwhelmingly, it's heterosexual men in relationships"

Then they post this

"However, if we refer just to the act of hitting or physically hurting another person, research statistics from the 1980's and early 1990's shows women are as likely or more likely than men to hit or physically harm a partner"

These two statements are in direct contrast to each other, IMHO

Then they try to justify the last statement by claiming that the women who do hit their partner are only doing it out of self defense, BUT offer absolutely no proof, iow, no stats to back it up whatsoever.

Or this one

"However, in comparison, a man's reaction to a woman's violence is usually far less emotionally traumatic than a woman's reaction to a man's violent acts"

How do they know this, IMHO, the simply made this up. As a man and having attended numerous support groups over the years THEY ARE WRONG. It is just as traumatic for a man to get hit by a women, in my opinion it can be worse. Society as a whole accepts the notion (as displayed in movies, news reports, ads etc) that hitting a woman is wrong, but makes jokes about men being hit by women. It is called Political Correctness.

January 7, 2009
9:07 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Whoa Dude you're confusing me.

"The problem isn't really OTHER STATS, it is now the author absolutely minimizes that stat they currently have."

Then you say "Then they try to justify the last statement by claiming that the women who do hit their partner are only doing it out of self defense, BUT offer absolutely no proof, iow, no stats to back it up whatsoever."

Ok- I am hearing that you're a stat nut, but not able or interested in citing them now. You will only refute what the author says by stating the author doesn't use stats.

Would you rather talk about how your perception of what the author wrote makes you feel? Or do you want opinions on what the author wrote? Do you want everyone to disagree with or pick apart this article the site posts?

The questions you wrote sound like great questions to talk about with the author/ owners of the site. Are you wanting discussion on what you consider to be an injustice to men? Have you ever visited the Male Survivor site? I'm not trying to steer you away from here, but it's a pretty good site and forum for abused men and you may not feel as minimised there.

You'll find Liberation Brew at the top of the discussion page - there are only 2 categories here - Support (support only ) and Libs (not necessarily support)

January 7, 2009
9:42 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Actually, what I an saying is that the author uses stats to make a point BUT the stats don't actually make their point for them , so they then try and refute their own stats by minimizing what those stats are saying.

The examples being "DV is overwhemingly hetro men" but their own stats don't actually say that.

I was trying to point out that this forum is great, the site under which it is based is rather biased.

I see no such bias in the forums however as all seem to be willing to accept that men and women are abused and in need of help. It just struck me as ODD that everyone in the forums is so open and what appears to be unbiased yet the sites authors don't seem that way. Believe me, that is very unusual for the internet.

And I will have a good look at those sites you mentioned.

I don't feel minimised in the forums which is great.

January 8, 2009
12:44 am
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh, I don't know that everyone at this site buys into the opinions pf the site, but there is some decent support and communication on the forum.

You know, you are right about this - just because a site posts something, doesn't mean that it is true or accurate. And 1994 was a long time ago. The photos of the site developers are probably 10 years old, too. I don't buy into the little codep mindset cult thingy that seems so prevalent here. I have only seen one other site, that catbox, that is similar to this one in that respect. Other sites don't dwell on it, or cite everything as a reason for codep.

If you can ever find the stats and sources, and feel inclined to post them - about how men are whooped up on by women more than women are by men, or that kids are battered by women more than men, I would love to see them. I would like to see the stats on incidences of mothers abusing their children broken down into single parent, etc. I wonder if the incidents of women hitting men is in response to the men abusing their children?

January 8, 2009
6:17 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As an aside, do you also wonder if men abusing women is in response to women abusing the children.

January 8, 2009
6:34 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here are a couple.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/.....24-XIE.pdf

In that one again, the person gives a person opinion though, which is strange, and it is done to try and justify the abuse, the quote I am referring to is

"Overall, family members or other persons related to the child victim constituted the vast majority (93%) of
alleged perpetrators. Biological mothers were identified as the alleged perpetrator most often (60% of
substantiated cases), followed by biological fathers (41%), step-fathers/common-law partners (9%) and stepmothers/
common-law partners (3%). This distribution may be somewhat biased by the fact that 40% of
investigated families were female-parent families."

Can someone explain to me WHY it even matters if 40% were female-parent families. All that says to me is that children are MORE in danger in single mother homes than in single father homes or multi parent homes. One other interesting thing of note. In single mother homes, 9% of the abuse is heaped on kids by step dads , NOW, would you put that on the side of Fathers abusing children OR Mothers, afterall the kids in those situations are under the care and control of MOM...what do you think.

January 8, 2009
10:08 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This is an excellent article about gender based violence and how some people write, talk and view it.

January 8, 2009
10:08 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
January 8, 2009
1:31 pm
Avatar
MsGuided
Golden Horseshoe.ca
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 104
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay?.how many single mother situations have a good economic foundation?

How many of these single mothers get support, in raising the kids, and finacially from the fathers?

Why did they end up single mothers?

Phillip. It seems you are leading this discussion toward your conclusions which are what?
Women abuse men and children MORE than men?

I think You'r being completely subjective.

What causes abuse is a socio-economic cultural atmosphere..the community raises the child?
The community raised us all.
It's a complicated system that all of us are influenced by.

Since you like to point out the negative aspects of Hetero-relationships, perhaps examining the negative aspects in society, that create gender inbalances and conflict, is warranted?

Stats are just indications but don't examine the causes.

The important question is why.

IMO In North America the most prevalent harmfull cultural features are: violence, selfishness, entitlement, distruction of the environment and other living things, addiction and substance abuse, gluttony, injustice and scapegoating, waste of our resources and rampant exploitation, and yes gender inequalities .......what else?
What links this all together is a power paradigm of " Win/Lose"......when there is always a victor, and victory is the focus, you will have lots of victims. Lots of pain and suffering.

It doesn't create an atmosphere of peace, respect and sharing..but master & slave.

This cultural influence is eroding all of our lives.

Doesn't this create an unhealthy atmosphere for us all? Fear and desperation for some?

Everyone is effected by their surroundings, so this isn't a capsulised subject here. We can point fingers at eachother, our romanitc interests, spouses, our youth....but this isn't even close to the real problem.

Abuse happens because......some of the influences stated above?

Not because a person is a man or a woman. We become what society makes us, good, bad or inbetween.

Maybe I should go to nomarriage.com or HenryMarkow.ca ( savethemales.ca)
and start debating the pages founders about how wrong they are?

What a waste of energy. They're victims of the system like you and I.

Until people wake up and realize this, start putting energy toward changing where the leaders we choose are taking us, then the problems will only get worse, and we become more fragmented and lost, unable to connect to our true purpose in life. Unable to love and thrive in balance.

Be Well!

January 8, 2009
2:16 pm
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In Canada (which is where I live), non custodial parents pay in excess of 70% of the monies which they are required to pay in CS. So, the answer to you question about how much support is given....the answer is ALOT.

Why are they single mothers, again, according the stats I have read on divorce, 70%(approx) of divorces are initated by the women, again. Who made them single mothers, they did in 70% of the cases, granted a number of them did so for 'good' reasons (as did the 30% of men).

No, I don't think women abuse men MORE, from the recents studies it seems fairly even. Women receive more serious injuries but this doesn't denote more violence per se.

As far as women abuse children more than men, then YES, the stats seem to indicate this in all catagories except sexual abuse.

The rest of your post I agree with. Stats are dangerous across the board because they RARELY examine causes just the results which of course ends up solving nothing.

January 8, 2009
8:00 pm
Avatar
MsGuided
Golden Horseshoe.ca
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 104
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

((Philips))

BTW, Since you started this thread I want to extend a warm welcome, here, directly to you.

I'm Canadian also. It's nice to have a fellow Canucker around and another male perspective.

How high are the snow drifts where you are? Even BC can't escape winter this year!WTH!>??LOL

January 9, 2009
6:16 am
Avatar
Philips
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Snow drifts are very high here...Got another 10+cm yesterday

January 9, 2009
5:54 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

MsGuided - this made me think.

"Maybe I should go to nomarriage.com or HenryMarkow.ca ( savethemales.ca) and start debating the pages founders about how wrong they are? What a waste of energy."

Yes it would be a waste of energy,unless you just wanted to see what kind of responses you would get. It might bring out the true misogynists!!! 😀

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
66
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 111019
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38569
Posts: 714305
Newest Members:
bravelassie, Chloe12, future life, austinjacob, Hadity1, JasonMcGhee
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information