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Why to girls let "hot guys" treat them like sh*t?
August 25, 2005
2:56 am
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luckyguy
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I know. Maybe it's an obvious question. I just have a friend who's always throwing herself at "hot guys". No, actually, make that more than one friend. And I mean sexually. And, of course, they don't respect her and she always ends up getting hurt. But it really pains me to see, because she's a very nice girl and she treats people very nice and always cares about other people, but she gets treated like she's worthless. Those guys don't even know her well. One even said he would post some pictures of her on the internet, because she's a slut. I just hate that word, because, in my opinion, nobody should be labelled as worthless like that. Especially a friend of mine who I care about. It just makes me so angry. But she just seems to keep repeating the same mistakes.

Sometimes I feel like I don't even want to know her as a friend, because it hurts me too much to watch, but whenever I try to cut off our communication, she sends me cards and says she doesn't want to lose me as a friend. And I can't be selfish and just abandon her. But I tend to get very emotionally involved with close friends, and when I see them get hurt it hurts me enormously.

I just don't know what to do with her. I want to help. I've told her to respect herself, and people will respect her too. I've told her if you want a guy to value you, you can't act like this. But she just tells me she has a high sex drive and she can't help it. And, yet, I know she wants more than just sex in her life. But that's all she ever gets. It's sad.

August 25, 2005
3:02 am
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Neshema
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Lucky-

Will you marry me? Also, will you respond to my post about male intimacy - what's the deal. You are awesome. XOXO

August 25, 2005
3:15 am
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Worried_Dad
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This is what you do.

Watch her throw herself at 1000 hot guys who are jerks.

Meanwhile, have a a life.

After the 1000th guy she may want to know your opinion.

Or maybe not.

My sister went through a phase like that--my sister being supermodel material herself.

Nothing I could do but love her through it all. Eventually, she got tired of feeling like #### all the time and settled down with a nice guy.

August 25, 2005
3:16 am
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gingerleigh
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Advise her to read the book "you're not that into him either".

August 25, 2005
3:27 am
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Neshema
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Seriously, you cannot control another adult's behavior. Women do these things for reasons I do not relate to: sex drive maybe, low self-esteem, thinking they will keep around a guy (when they know they won't anyway), need to feel attractive. Whatever the reason, maybe someday, she will realize it doesn't make her feel more fulfilled and less lonely. Interestingly, our culture finds this behavior acceptable for young men, but not women. For women, it is slutty and degrading. When men grow up, hopefully they realize it is not fulfilling. When women grow up, may realize they have the same rights as men. BY all means, I hope she is protecting herself. I don't endorse this behavior in either sex, as I find it empty and risky. However, you know as well as I, it is HER choice to make, not yours. So, work on letting it go, as hard as it is for someone you care about. You cannot fix it... you cannot make her decisions or rescue her. Any women or man can decide they deserve more than empty fun and sex and looking at a partner they don't even know and thinking "who the heck are you?" Once she realizes that, she will want more. Who wants to wake up to a stranger?

August 25, 2005
1:12 pm
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kathygy
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lucky,

The fact that what your friend does hurts you enormously is codpendent. it is her pain, not yours. You are not responsible for her feelings or her behavior. Often women use sex when they want love and confuse the two. Thinking things like, if he has sex with me then I am desirable and we will have intimacy and he will love me. When I give a friend advice and they don't follow it then I don't beat my head against the wall trying to get them to see my point. Let it go.

love,
kathy

August 26, 2005
12:34 pm
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jack122064
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Your friend may be "nice," but if she is throwing herself out there like a piece of meat, it's not surprising that she gets called a "slut." I know you don't like the word, but if the shoe fits, your friend needs to wear it.

The good news is that she CAN change her behavior. She doesn't HAVE to be known as a "slut." But don't blame the people who call her that name. When we make the bed, we lie in it (pun intended...).

Jack

August 26, 2005
12:46 pm
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gingerleigh
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Jack, I see the point of your post. It's harsh, but true, I do understand what you mean. Engage in the activity, then prepare to be judged.

I hope that as we as a society evolve, we learn that people who engage in destructive behaviors are usually doing so out of pain and fear. More helping is needed, not more labeling. Probably just my own wishful thinking, hoping for more compassion in the world.

Probably a hopeless desire though, since I equally hope for an evolution where people treat others and themselves with respect where labels like "slut" no longer have relevant meaning...

August 26, 2005
1:17 pm
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jack122064
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ginger,

I agree, but sometimes labels can help. Maybe being called a "slut," a "drunk," a "manipulator," etc. will force some people to change. I realize that some will never change no matter what, so a label on them does no harm, because they don't care anyway, IMO.

Jack

August 26, 2005
1:30 pm
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gingerleigh
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I politely disagree. I can only speak from my own experience though. The people we label often are already labeling themselves inside, and then hearing it externally, it sucks the hope right out of them... and it's not that they don't care, but they are so far down in their pain and confusion that throwing another label on top of them is like throwing dirt into the well that they are stuck at the bottom of. The label isn't a ladder to help get them out.

I've called myself a drunk internally. And hearing it externally, why it just validates my feelings of worthlessness all the more. And it's not that I don't care. Labels hurt.

So then what helps? I think love and understanding is what's going to make things better (as opposed to enabling or encouraging the behavior). In the case of the "slut" wouldn't it be great if a man said, "I like you, and think you're a great person, so you know what? I don't think I'm going to have sex with you, because it's going to hurt you in the long run." Men out there like that exist. But a great many completely throw compassion out the window and will bone her anyway, since after all, she's a slut, and deserves to be treated like trash since she obviously doesn't care, and hey he's horny, so why not?

And I'm not trying to male bash here. Because I certainly can't blame a man if a beautiful woman offers casual sex to him, no strings attached... I mean, he's going to take her at face value, right?

I have no solutions, only questions, and hope.

August 26, 2005
1:35 pm
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StronginHim77
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There is an excellent book, available in paperback, titled WHY MEN LOVE BITCHES. I can't recall the name of the author, but she is a radio talk-show counselor. Check it out and give a copy to your friend. It's a real eye opener and tells it like it is. Men are programmed to aggress and hunt. Once they get what they want, (especially if they get it too quickly or too easily), it loses all value for them and they move on to something more challenging. Also, they are put off by emotionally "needy" women. DO GET THE BOOK. IT COULD CHANGE HER LIFE.

August 26, 2005
4:45 pm
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hoping_2_feel_again
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Another great book is, Men Like Women Who Like Themselves by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol

h2fa

August 26, 2005
6:50 pm
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glittered when he walked
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I dislike labels. They carry too much judgment for me. My stbx was/still is a big name caller. It's not my way, and I think labeling/name calling is more often than not countrproductive. rather than making them aware of their behavior, it makes them hurt and can promote defensiveness. callig someone a slut doesn't carry the message 'i care about you and what you're doing doesn't appear to be fulfilling you, in fact, its unhealthy"

August 26, 2005
8:35 pm
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luckyguy
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Here's what make me feel even worse about a girl I know. Because men don't respect her, they always leave her for another woman. Now she has bad anxiety and she shuts herself in the house. She's afraid to go out. She hasn't been out of the house in months except for brief car trips suggested by her theripist. She stays in the house, and sits at the computer most of the time.

But the same thing happens. She'll meet a "hot guy" in the internet. He'll tell her he loves her. She'll believe him. He'll ask for naked pictures of her. She'll send them. And, of course, he'll call her "too easy" and disappear. And she's broken hearted. At this rate, one if these days her pictures are going to end up on a web site somewhere. The last guy already said he was going to do that.

* bangs head on wall *

I know I can't fix people's lifes. I guess it's my personality. I'm always trying to rescue people from themselves. But people have told me, "You changed my life", just by caring about them and making them feel worth something more, so it makes it hard to just give up on people.

August 26, 2005
11:24 pm
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Philosuffer
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It's called self-esteem, or lack thereof. And you can't give it to her, only she can.

If she thinks it's her sex-drive that's making her do this I think she has a LONG way to go before she understands herself.

August 30, 2005
7:10 pm
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luckyguy
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How does one GET self-esteem? I'm not only asking that for her, but for myself too.

August 30, 2005
7:18 pm
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gingerleigh
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Meds. Lots and lots of meds. *laughing*

Only kidding. I did see a book at B&N called "The Idiot's Guide to Self Esteem" but I was feeling too bad about myself to buy it. No joke.

As far as I can tell, we get self esteem by treating others and ourselves with respect. Sort of like a "fake it till ya feel it" concept.

August 30, 2005
9:06 pm
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thewall
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Luckyguy,

So we meet again. I just answered your other post. Allow me to answer this one as well bc I do think you are awesome.

First of all....get the book! (the disease to please). I think you and your friend would benefit from it.

and secondly, here is one of my all time favorite sayings:

"Nothing changes until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change"

In other words, she isnt going to change until shes had enough of the hurt. Truely had enough. She may say she has. May cry showers of tears. But no matter what she says, she hasnt had enough if shes choosing the same mistakes over and over again. You'll know shes had enough and means what she says about hurting too much, when you see her go get help, see her changing. Until then, there is absolutely nothing you can do.

You paid a big huge price for being a nice guy 17 yrs ago. I hate to see you making the same mistake again withthis friend, spending so much energy with someone who perhaps may be using you for an emotional crutch and dumping groung, without being willing to do anything to help herself.

Careful here big guy.

Now go read that book! 🙂

thewall

August 30, 2005
9:58 pm
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littlesteps
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self esteem/self worth comes from deep inside of yourself, it's about loving yourself, its about not waitng for who ever to bring you flowers, its about making yourself a garden inside your soul and giving yourself flowers......I have read alot of different posts on this site and what a keep seeing in everyone here including myself is such a lack of love for our true selves. I am so guilty of not lovong myself and have been in a very dysfunctional marriage/relationship since I was 17 yrs old, now after many years of feeling like a total jerk etc because I never had the guts to leave, I decided to get help for me, and the biggest thing I have learnt is this.....you have to love yourself in order to believe in yourself, it's hard at times, but I know full well that until I truely learn to fully love every part of me even the ugly stuff I will be trapped in co-dep, and so I have choosen to take my eyes off my husband and lay them on my self, after all I AM WORTH IT, so are all of you.....hugs

September 3, 2005
12:21 pm
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Matteo
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Labeling....lights a big red light for me. Not in regards with those being labeled, but those who label them.

September 9, 2005
4:18 pm
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luckyguy
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thewall

Thank you so much for your kind words. I feel like they are not really deserved, but they are much appreciated. 🙂

I guess I really have to read that book you suggested. I looked for it at the local Barns & Nobel but they didn't have it, but there are a few more stores around here that may have it.

I suppose I keep making the same mistakes. Somehow, I've realized that I am always attracted to needy people. I don't know why. I just see someone who's alone or hurting or feeling bad about themselves, and I want to be there for them.

But, as far as my friend goes, she didn't really ask for anything from me. She keeps most of her feelings inside, preferring to not talk about negative things. Part of it is, she's been a good friend to me. I care about her. Maybe way too much.

I hope this new psychologist I'm going to see on Monday can cure me. 😛

September 9, 2005
4:47 pm
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luckyguy
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littlesteps

Yes, I also know very well about not loving myself. I still think there must be something terribly wrong with me that makes me repulsive to the general population or at least not attractive to the opposite sex in any way. That's why I got married right away when a woman showed the least bit of interest in me. I didn't even really CONSIDER whether she was the right woman for me or not. I just thought, "Wow! A FEMALE likes me! I must MARRY her before she changes her mind!" I didn't even consider things like emotional or sexual compatibility, and detail that I think we have BOTH suffered greatly because of.

I just have to ask, how can you feel like your worth something if it seems like nobody else thinks your worth anything? I mean, people tell me that I'm a great person, but talk is cheap. I could lie and say that to anyone too. I just have never felt I'm desirable to anyone simply because of a lack of evidence.

So, even as I read your words saying, "I am worth it", I know we live in a superficial society, and I'm not worth it. But I do appreciate your words of encouragement. I'm just a hopeless case, I guess... * hugs back *

September 10, 2005
11:16 pm
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hollow
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females can't treat hot guys any differently than dogs because they are beyond the shallow hedonistic ways of males that think only of body parts and facial qualities. Therefore your thesis is flawed.

September 12, 2005
12:17 am
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luckyguy
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hollow

I used to think that, until I met some females that are more shallow and hedonistic than I am. Phrases like, "Oh, that guy is HOT! I'd like to f**k him!" Now, I, being a male, would never say that upon seeing an attractive female.

Oh, well, I guess I must be old-fashioned. Times have changed.

September 12, 2005
9:25 am
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jack122064
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Again, it's a two-way street. Why do guys let hot girls treat them like crap? It's a self-esteem thing all around. I am done with relying on others for my self-worth. Why I ever did that, I don't know. But I realize that I am awesome, I happen to be a "hot guy." I just never viewed myself that way. Instead of treating people like crap, I guess I let people walk on me, which is just as bad. (Not that I haven't treated my share of people badly, I am selfish in many ways...).

But I guess I can be thankful in a way that I didn't get stuck up about my looks and talents, etc. Because now it's an exciting new world for me, knowing that people are actually attracted to me, and they always have been (so many missed opportunities...sigh). Even though I'm gay, it's still flattering when women hit on me. (I know, I'm an attention w&*re...).

My point is that I am now making the best of my qualities and life. Some days are better than others, but I feel I am on the right path.

Jack

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