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why do i want something bad over something wonderful??
February 16, 2004
11:21 am
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onmymind
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Hi, I'm Annette, I'm 32 married female. Been married for almost 8 years now. I have known my husband (Shane) all my life, we lived less than a mile from each other. He is a wonderful man. We started dating my senior year of highschool. He was a virgin...I was whatever you want to call a total opposite of a virgin. He was the first guy I dated for more than a month straight. We dated for 6 years and got married. We have a 10 month old son now.
I've had a normal life...no abuse or anything. My parents are amazing and have always given me more love than I deserve. I've never had to go without anything.
I was shy for most of my younger years. I think I hit puberty when I was around 13. I had a huge crush on this one guy (Tony) that was 3 years older than I. Tony is a close friend of the family. His mother drove our bus growing up and Tony was best friends with Shane. We all grew up in a small town in the country. Everyone knew I had a huge crush Tony. He thought it was cute and just looked at me as a sister, nothing more (you must remember he was 16, I was 13) When I turned 16, and he was 19, things changed, I developed into a beautiful woman. I still had a huge crush on Tony(it never stopped). Tony and I became closer and then one night over at my aunts house he kissed me (my first kiss). I just knew that was love. Well, then the whole sex stuff came up...he was use to girls that "put-out"...I was not like that. So...he found the ones who would. He ended up getting a girl pregnant and getting married. I ended up becoming one of those girls he liked after that. Between age 16 and 18, i slept with about 20 different guys in high school. Then after breaking up with one guy after dating him for a long 3 weeks, I ran into Shane at the local store and he told me that if i ever wanted a guy who would treat me right to let him know....and Shane and I started dating after that....and got married 6 years later. I saw Tony a few times at different parties where he would be there with his family...he had two kids and was still married to the same girl. We would always make eye-contact but wouldn't really speak. Everyone knew we had a history. Well, one evening at my parents house at my sister's bday party, Tony showed up with his two kids. My sister said she had ran into him at a club and invited him to the party and that he and his wife were having problems and were separated. I felt so bad for him...I wanted to help him, be there for him. Somehow during that evening I ended up babysitting all the kids inside the house while everyone else was outside at the pool. It was pretty late...Tony came inside and I was sitting in a chair reading to his youngest child....He just looked at me and smiled and told me I was an angel...and thanked me and went back outside. He came back again later and I was in the kitchen alone and he had tears in his eyes. He had been drinking. It all seems blurry, but I remember him telling me that not marrying me was the biggest mistake of his life and then he kissed me on the cheek. Well, to make a long story short...we ended up having an affair, and finally having sex together. He ended up getting back with his wife, and we still remain friends to this day and talk sometimes online over AOL.
Well...I began chatting during that time. I believe it was just to find someone to talk to that maybe understood what all was going through my mind. My husband was unaware of any of this. I was becoming distant from him. I met Jimmy almost 4 years ago online while in a chat room. We are the same age and he was also married at the time and not very happy and had also had affairs. He and I met in real life a few days after we chatted for the first time. There was immediate chemistry and we ended up starting a very physical and emotional affair. I fell madly and deeply in love with him. And I thought he felt the same. He wasn't anything special...very normal looking, wasn't rich or anything that superficial. We just connected so perfectly and when i was with him, i just felt totally happy for once in my life. Well...i found out he was seeing another girl...he chose me over her, and I forgave him, he was seeing her before me and was trying to break things off with her. Then there just came one lie after another about anything and everything. There just didn't seem to be any trust and I kept asking him if there was someone else, and he just said he needed space. He had moved out of his house and separated and moved into an apartment, he gave me a key to it. One day he was acting strange and he told me he was going to a baseball game with his cousin and couldn't see me that evening. I decided to go see him before he had to leave and I went to his apartment and we ended up making love and then he had to go, he told me i could stay there for a while if i wanted to. My instincts told me that he was lying. Five mins later he phoned me and told me his aunt was coming there to get something and he didn't want her to see me there, so he asked me to leave. Well, I drove around the building and just sat in my car and watched....he pulled up 5 mins later and a girl pulled up beside him. I confronted him, gave him his key back and left. The next day, I phoned his wife and told her everything. He had a small son at that time and he had him with him that weekend. His wife wanted to meet me and me take her to his appartment (she didn't know where it was)so she could get her son from him. I met her and we drove to his apartment and met him at his door together. He was not happy. He came after me...we had to phone the police and it was horrible. He went to my husband's work that night and told him everything. It was all out in the open. I still have the voicemail Jimmy left me on my cell phone from that night.
Jimmy and I ended up getting back together about a month a after that, and somehow Shane ended up forgiving me.
Jimmy and I continued a relationship until I got pregnant.
I'll continue the Jimmy part in another message in a few...

February 16, 2004
12:57 pm
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gingerleigh
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I hate to ask this, but who was the father of your baby? You said you continued the affair until you got pregnant, so I'm not really sure.

February 16, 2004
1:55 pm
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onmymind
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gingerleigh,
To be perfectly honest...it could be either....the other guy and I never used protection...and he wanted me to have an abortion when I told him I was pregnant because it "could" be his. He has a son already.

February 16, 2004
2:00 pm
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MEC
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Don't you think you should find out who the father is?

February 16, 2004
2:05 pm
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onmymind
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It wouldn't matter...I know who wants to be a father to him, that is what matters.

February 16, 2004
2:07 pm
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gingerleigh
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It's a tough spot to be in. I can understand how your husband would be making digs and insulting you, even though it's not the forgiving and loving thing to do. It will take time for both of you to heal from all this. Although he "needs" to forgive you and move on, he also probably senses that you aren't quite ready to move on yourself, hence the title of your thread "Why do I want something bad over something wonderful?"

Marriage counseling might help you both through this. At the very least, get some counseling for yourself. This is a lot to deal with. Yes, you will need to step up and take responsibility for where you are, but today is a new day, you can make a fresh start. But it takes real honesty with yourself to get over that hurdle.

February 16, 2004
2:17 pm
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onmymind
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gingerleigh,
Thank you so much for your advice. I do think and I do want to be counceled. But I have no idea where to go for that and I'm not really sure if it would make me get over the feelings for the other guy that I wake up with and go to sleep with every day. And I don't know how to respond to my husband anymore. I feel that all trust is gone and all that is left is me trying to make it up to him and I feel like that is impossible, but I think that is what he wants me to do.

February 16, 2004
2:36 pm
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gingerleigh
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Well, you never know until you try, right? For a start, I would recommend cutting off all contact with the other man, Jimmy. And maybe even changing your chatting habits. Chat rooms are great for single people or folks looking to connect with others. But chat rooms are hell on marriages. You might want to consider why you go there, what need it's filling for you that you aren't able to get in real life with close friends, family and your husband. What emotions are you "putting off" by visiting those rooms? Boredom? Unhappiness? Anger? Guilt? Sadness? Fear? Emptiness?

Counseling can be found in a variety of places for a variety of fees. Churches sometimes offer services or referrals. Your company or your husband's company may have something called an EAP (Employee Assistance Program) that can direct you to counseling services in your area that specialize in marriage counseling. Or try the Yahoo Yellow Pages: http://yp.yahoo.com/ . Put in where you live and do a search for "counselor" and see what comes up.

February 16, 2004
2:37 pm
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marley
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I think sometimes we chose something bad over something wonderful for two reasons. one because we are not sure that we deserve something wonderful and two what we have that we think is wonderful is wonderful in theory and not necessarily for us. The world is a mess, life is never very stable, in the end everyone only knows there own mind and if you can find someone you connect with - even for a brief period of time - be grateful b/c some people go through life totally empty - even though their lives look perfect.

I think you have the right attitude about the baby. Whosever it is, it is who will raise it and love it as its own that is most important.

I think counseling would be an excellent idea for you as well as your husband. Do you still want to be married to him? Or is he the security that you cannot let go?

February 16, 2004
2:51 pm
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onmymind
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marley,
I agree with you 100%. If you ask anyone about my husband they will tell you I have the best husband anyone could ask for. I agree, he loves me very much and would do anything for me. But the world is indeed a mess and very unstable. I guess my problem is just finding a way to be content and happy with myself and my life.
I feel very thankful that I met this man and eventhough he has caused me so much grief and heartache and tears, I still think of him and my heart smiles for some stupid reason.
I made the decision to have my baby because I knew without a doubt it would be loved and cared for and that is much more important than whose sperm created it.
I want to seek counseling...I agree it is an excellent idea. I am not sure if i want to be married to him...at times yes, other times when he hurts me and makes me feel like dirt, no. I think you are right...he is security that is tough to let go of.

February 16, 2004
3:09 pm
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marley
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my exboyfriend is a real jerk and when I would get angry with him I would tell him "you make me feel like crap . . ." and you know how it goes and in what I used to think was utter arrogance he would say "I can't make you . . .(whatever)". At the time I thought he was a bigger jerk for not validating my feelings or whatever. Now I see that he is right. No one can make us DO anything. We make all of our own choices, whatever the reasons. Not to say your husband is blameless in all of this he should not deliberately try to hurt you, but maybe your guilt allows you to be harder on yourself than he is actually being on you, just a thought.

February 16, 2004
3:25 pm
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gingerleigh
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"I made the decision to have my baby because I knew without a doubt it would be loved and cared for and that is much more important than whose sperm created it."

Hm, don't discount the betrayal your husband would feel if it turns out the kid is not his. This is a little bit different than a man who adopts his wife's children, since those children were usually born before he ever came into the picture. Not so with this child. The child needs to be loved, yes. But it's an awful stretch to ask your husband to raise another man's offspring that was fathered while you were supposedly being faithful to him, don't you think? How would you feel if the positions were reversed? Seriously, think on that for a bit.

Every day, that child is a constant reminder to him of your breach of his trust. I hope very much that this child is the product of the union between you and your husband. But if it isn't, what then? Do you just expect your husband to get over it and love and raise the child as though it were his own? Before you make your decisions on whether you will keep the child or not, make sure you go down those paths of what life will really be like. Would you have the baby and just let your husband "assume" the baby is his, thus living your entire life with that lie? Or would you tell him and then assume the risk that this child may always be treated with some level of contempt by the "father"? You want the child to be loved, but are you sure that it will be? Just be very certain of what you are getting into here. I'm asking hard questions, I know.

February 16, 2004
3:31 pm
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onmymind
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marley,
Funny you should say that...the other guy always would tell me that when I told him he hurt me...he would always say "you hurt yourself, not me". And I guess he is right, I make my own decisions in everything I do now. I wake up every day now and tell myself not to talk to him, if he calls, don't answer...just try to ignore him. I just get too confused about it all. I love him, he knows it. He makes sure I know he doesn't love me and doesn't want any relationship with me except for casual friends (whatever that means). I have not seen him in a month now. But we spoke on the phone casually last week. I actually just phoned him (he's probably working), got his voice mail, didn't leave a message.

February 16, 2004
3:42 pm
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marley
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you know I love my dr. jekyll and he pulls the same crap with making sure I know he doesn't love me, sometimes I think "thou doth protest too much" and others I think he knows his head better than I.

I finally sent him packing (although he already packed and went to costa rica) but from my life - although never from my heart. Sometimes you have to do the things that are right for you. Why do you want to be with this man? I mean loving him is one thing and overturning your whole life for him is something different.

I spoke to a buddhist monk last week who told me you can still have love and compassion for someone you never see, maybe this should be a love you keep to yourself (since he appears unable to share it with you). If the baby is his, will you want to constant reminder of this disparity, will it eventually make you resent the child, are you expecting things to change with him because of the baby? Expectations lead us down the road to our own misery. The more we expect the more we can lose.

Be careful with your heart.

February 16, 2004
3:47 pm
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onmymind
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gingerleigh,
I have thought about it...very much...and my husband already has thoughts that it may not be his because during one of the fights the other guy and I had, he managed to inform him that it could be his child, so my husband does have that running in his head, but he has never brought it up and it has never come between the love he has for my child. I knew my child would never go without love regarless of who the father was or was not or if he never had a father at all in his life. If i ever feel my husband is treating my child with any level of "contempt" or ever makes a comment about it....that will be an entire issue. I believe that my husband believes it is his child and refuses to think anything different.

February 16, 2004
3:59 pm
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onmymind
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marley,
I feel like you do understand and can relate to how I feel. I know it's best for me to never call him and never see him again...trying to be a friend to him hurts me too much because it only makes me want to spend more time with him and talk to him more....and that's when he pushes me away for a few weeks and then as soon as I feel like I can go a day without wanting to just call him just to hear his voice, he'll call me and I loose all pride again and just want to see him and make him happy....
Why do i keep doing this to myself?

February 16, 2004
4:34 pm
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marley
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I don't know, but I have been there trust me. only I didn't have a wonderful and caring husband to be there when it all fell apart. I left a great man who would have loved me through anything for one who would swear on a stack of bibles he never loved me at all. why does anyone do such things?

personally I think I like being miserable and just refuse to give any decent guy a chance. Like you I did the rebellious opposite of virgin thing and always seemed to date guys who were more the virgin type - and yet this never really worked b/c they were willing to be there and I was more than willing to bounce around.

there is some reason deep inside you that draws you to this man, I have no doubt. however, that doesn't mean you have to listen to it. In a way (at least for me) it was easier to be treated badly as a way to punish myself for hurting a good man who loved me and who I could never truly love back. It didn't work the way I wanted. SURE I got all the pain in the world, but I never found any sort of release from the love I had felt or the guilt. And now I am coming to terms with the fact that sometimes you have to forgive yourself, maybe then the compulsion to see this man will dissipate and you can truly live your own life. I don't know.

All I do know is while you are in it it is like crawling through a cave with no where to go but through it and you pray to god that there is light and solid ground at the end of the tunnel and not a waterfall and a cliff. But you know what? sometimes the shock of a drop is just what you need.

February 16, 2004
4:49 pm
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onmymind
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marley,
I have tears in my eyes from reading your last response. I feel you know where I am at now because you have been there. I feel the strength you have obtained from the experience you had and I desire that strength more than you can know. I just want to know how to get out of this hole i'm in now....

February 16, 2004
5:20 pm
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marley
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by turning your back - walking away and not looking back.

There is nothing there for you and I know you don't want to believe it, but somewhere you know that it is true.

I read your other thread and I used to be the same way, waiting for the phone calls - getting nauseous when he didn't call - driving by his house and wondering if he was at work or with another woman. Since we "ended" (probably not the right word) our relationship so many times, there were often times when I knew he had been with others and I wanted to be with him anyway. I would forgive him anything without consequence. I thought this was a gift, that this meant it was true love that we were meant to be together. It was an addiction - to what I don't know, but addiction nonetheless.

In AA they say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. You know what the result is with this man. Don't be insane. Choose a better life.

I am by no means strong - it makes me smile to read that you think so. I wonder what will happen when my Mr. Wrong comes back stateside, but that is weeks from now and I know that I will not have to see him if I don't want to - ultimately it is my decision as it is yours.

I hope some of this helps.

February 17, 2004
7:53 am
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onmymind
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marley,
It is so refreshing to know that there is someone out there that knows EXACTLY how I feel and what I'm going through in my mind!! When I read your response I got tears once again because I finally feel like there really is hope for me.
I feel the exact same. I feel like because I have forgiven him for EVERYTHING he has ever done to me that must mean my love for him is true and unconditional and special.
It is a chain cycle with him....always ending in the same way...me being hurt. But I always hope that maybe this time will be different and he will show some type of care for me in someway...and even the slightest thing he may do that could possibly mean he may care I take it to heart. (like calling ME and asking ME for money...when he could had called someone else...but chose ME)
I just need to stop all contact with him and move on...I know this, but doing it is so hard. I don't know why....

February 17, 2004
12:58 pm
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marley
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Annette -

I know that feeling and I know how badly you want to believe that it means something, but it only means that you love him and are willing to put up with his nonsense (and in a way are trying to punish yourself or allow yourself to be a martyr). I used to think it was so wonderful if I got a call to help with the car and then I would let him use my car and would do his laundry and make his bed so that when he was done, he could just go to sleep and I would go home and I felt good about that because I thought I was the only one who could give him all that love.

I was so wrong in my assumptions. He did/does not want the kind of love I offer to him. He is able to find what he wants elsewhere and that leaves me alone and wondering why I chose him when there are so many other men? My only answer for myself is that it made me feel good to do things for him, so now I try to act as kindly towards everyone as I did to him.

The greatest thing about unconditional love (if you really feel it) is that it is not exclusive or discriminatory. If you really loved that man that much, then you know you have that much love to give - to yourself, your husband, your children.

If my experience has taught me anything it is that, THANK GOD I GOT OUT BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE! I could have seriously damaged my life trying to be with this man. There were honestly times when I hoped I would get pregnant, just so we would be together. I am so glad it never happened b/c if I am being honest with myself he is not always the man I think he is and in those moments I would not want him near my (our)children.

So think very carefully about what you think it is about this man that you love so much. I would bet that it is something in you that you think he fills up. You will realize that it has nothing to do with him and then maybe you can let him go and begin your own life.

I hope this doesnt sound harsh and I know it is hard to let go . . . but please do.

Marley

February 17, 2004
1:08 pm
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onmymind
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marley
17-Feb-04

Marley,
You again brought tears to my eyes with the way you understand and relate to me. I know he uses me, I don't know if he realizes it or will ever admit it, but I do know he does use me because if he didn't then I wouldn't feel used, right?? I have done so much for him that has shown him that i love him. But I have done many things that are border-line crazy, but it was just because of my feelings for him. Those are the reasons why he no longer wants me to know where he lives or works. I've never stalked him, but he thinks I am capable of things like that. The only thing I've done is once he told me he was going to the dog tracks and my father and I were going on a weekend trip to biloxi and my father loves the dog tracks too and usually go by there on the way...and i pushed to go there bc i thought maybe he would be there and he was...and he was shocked to see me of course. And then I've done some crazy online stuff, just following him into chat rooms and pretending to be someone else and talk to him.
Am i just psycho???

February 17, 2004
1:13 pm
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Amen Marley!!!

" So think very carefully about what you think it is about this man that you love so much. I would bet that it is something in you that you think he fills up."

AMEN!! These men come along at a time when for whatever reason a woman may be looking outside of herself for something she is lacking inside. Feeling no one really understands her, maybe feeling she doesn't deserve what she has, or whatever. This man really has nothing to do with it. This addiction is the problem and the root of the addiction needs to be found before the addiction can be stopped. The answer lies within the woman. The heart rending sensation, the stomach aches, the guilt -- these are all because we know we are not being true to our own values. We are betraying ourselves the most, ultimately.

Annette do you think you are the way you are now because way back when, that was the kind of girl Tony wanted? Have you ever really loved Shane? Do you doubt whether you deserve him? Just some thoughts for you....

February 17, 2004
1:28 pm
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sixfootblonde,
I have tried to analyze myself, and yes, I do believe it resorts back to when I was lustly in love with Tony for most of my youth and feeling and seeing that he only wanted the type of girls that would "put-out". I believe that is why I became one of those girls. I know I love Shane, but I don't think I love him the way a wife should....and I think he deserves so much better. He is perfect, never has nor would treat a woman wrong. I feel like I bring out the worse in him because of the way I have treated him and it pains me to see that.

February 17, 2004
3:56 pm
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marley
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Annette -

Psycho? That is pretty harsh, but you are definitely chasing a mirage. I understand though about creating coincidence, but why?

You know when I was growing up my mother was always telling me to wait for the guy to call, never make the first move and all of that kind of good girl stuff. Well my first boyfriend(s) were really shy (in fact they all have been pretty shy and inexperienced) and they would not make the first move physically. I mean they would call and want my attention, etc, but no touching. I think sometimes I went for that kind of guy because I wanted to be in control. Do you find that ever in your relationship with Shane? That you know you are the one in control because he loves you so much and you are free to come and go as you please?

I think when we develop these types of personalities we gravitate towards others who will treat us in a more agressive manner. Not necessarily men overcome with lust or anything so mundane, but more men we long to have control us, to relinguish the control to someone. We think that we love them because we trust their control over us. Does this make sense?

I know for me, I wanted someone I could rely on completely and I always believed that if the other person was looking to me to make the first move then they were relying on me. Not complete. When I look back on things now I realize that I may have made the first move, but they were always there to pick me up when I screwed it up. When you are with the controlling type they are always making the first move and you are a leaf in the wind.

Annette, please walk away from this man. I know you love him and want to be with him, but he will hurt you even more if you give him the chance. You need to find your own inner strength and resilience. Stop fighting what is - and only you know what is really going on, but don't dream it into something else.

Marley

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