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Why do I want some one who doesn't want me>
August 28, 2001
10:59 am
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CatEyes
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Sorry about the two message, but I couldn't fit it all.

August 28, 2001
11:25 am
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Ladeska
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Tez...(chuckle)

August 28, 2001
4:44 pm
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strengthcourageandwisdom
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I started to read this to see, what I could find out about someone else's problems. And instead I found myself.
Lately I have a new prayer, and it is reflective in my nickname, It is a song also(by Indya Ayre) , But strength ,courage and wisdom is all we really need for this journey. SallyAnne , you really are not looking for the answers , you have the wisdom (you know this man nor any other who treats you this way deserves your time), what you are lacking is the courage to let him go, and then strength to move on.
I know , I understand,
What do you do? , ... I don't know. I do know that when I have to do something painful, I remember the last time I walked away, (was dumped or whatever), and how terrible it was, then I Scream "I'M STILL HERE", I made it through that, and I will make it through this!! The second part of the journey is to STOP the behavior that causes the pain, even if you FEEL differently. Your feelings, can't always be trusted. YOUR WISDOM CAN. The behavior is getting with guys who treat you poorly, stop that. Then later on when your STRENTGH comes, you will FEEL differently, you will no longer desire that which makes you unhappy.

August 29, 2001
1:51 pm
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sally-anne
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It's nice to know there are others out there who experience the same as me. I desparately want to let this guy go, but I fear that I will feel so empty without him. The crazy thing is that I know I don't have him so how can I feel more empty without him if I let him go. I've gone over and over this in my mind, I think its because as long as I don't tell him to go, there will always be a chance that I will become more important to him. Its almost like I'm telling myself better to have him in my life under these conditions than not at all. The way he cancels at the last moment, the way he is non-plussed if we haven't arranged another date (where as I get frantic as I fear it may be the last time I see him) tells me that he means so much more to me than I mean to him. I find myself telling myself "Hey, he's a guy, they don't show that sort of stuff". Yet my sixth sense tells me that he could probably walk away from me tomorrow without flinching where as I feel I need him (not that he is ever there for me). I have read other posts where people say listen to your emotional radar, cos its probably right. That makes my heart sink & I despair. If you asked me if I was in love with this man, I would have to say no. I just need him, and I hate it.

August 29, 2001
1:56 pm
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sally-anne
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Sorry guys, now the flood gates are open, there's more. I don't know why he is bothering with me. He hasn't made any sexual advances on me, he hugs me and when he kisses me, its just a peck. Sometimes, I feel he doesn't even want to do that. So why is he even bothering?

August 29, 2001
1:58 pm
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Ladeska
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I just wrote this to someone else on here, but couldn't help but think alot of it - is about you as well, so read it and see if anything jumps out at you...

Regarding the "relationship" thing.....it really does affect us - this blind spot that we have and if we are abuse victims on top of that, especially if it's sexual abuse - then relationship troubles will definitely surface. Just no way around it. If someone has a leg crushed in an accident - they're going to have problems bowling, ya know? (smile) But, as is characteristics with these stubborn little people like you and myself - we think we can run the olympics anyway and win. Thing is - we often do - just that.

But......larger than life - is this thorn in the side that you speak of here.....and the question looms....towering over everything we do......"how do I fix me?" How do I not allow myself to be compulsively drawn into this spinning fan? Well....it's definitely a journey and one of "discovery". It can actually be quite interesting.....so don't squint from pain too much at the though of it. I think it's rather fascinating to study ourselves, human nature and then to also see, alongside of that - that we have tremendous power at our fingertips. We have the power of creativity, strength of heart and intuition, not only can we reason, but we can feel things out as well and we have this magical thing about us that no one can really explain - whereby - we should be dead, but we're not. For some odd reason - we overcome some insurmountable odds.

However.....too often we tackle things that lead us away from this one area, leaving it vulnerable to attack, exposed to whomever may want to take advantage of us. This area where our womanhood resides is a very touchy, very wounded side of us. It has heavy barriers around it, almost impossible to get through. But, since you were the one who built it - you are the one that can get through it. The really interesting thing is - that nine times out of ten, if abuse happened as a small child - it is a small child's reasoning that not only built it - but that you will have to wrestle "with" when you disassemble it. You basically have to turn around and go through - your own mighty defense system. Kind of a "humbling" experience. And you have to do it a certain way so that - this part of you - this wounded child, doesn't build even another layer against you - the grown self and the world at large.

But, here in the dark sits a child - who doesn't understand much of anything except people who supposedly loved her - hurt her the most. So, the colors she paints with are different than what she might have chosen as a child unbroken..... Her vision in some ways is distorted and in others - is right on target. So, dealing with her - will be tricky business. The utmost respect and cautiousness is required.

Why do I talk like we are split up into two different halves? Because - we are. In some ways, we got stunted at an emotional age - of whatever age we were when we got severely wounded - maybe the first time something horrible happened - that we just could not psychologically handle. That's why we are so mature in some ways and are Zena the Warrior Princess in life and yet in other ways - we function like a 9 year old and make judgements like they would about things.

But, if your womanhood got ravaged at 9 years old - then wouldn't it make sense - that if your emotional growth in this arena stopped - right there? Wouldn't it make sense that a 9 year old would make certain choices about men - that your grown-up might otherwise think - not good or unhealthy when just dealing with your rational side? That's why we get so confused because later we say - Geez, if that were someone else - I'd have said - No way, don't do that, it's crazy, get away from him!!!! But.....if the little girl is making the choices and is allowed to and the two of you have not resolved some things about the past - guess what? She's the one steering the car and not you!

She will be compulsively running after Daddy or whoever hurt her - to try and make it right, fix it, find out from him - why oh why did you do this - I need a reason, please make it right with me, tell me you didn't mean to do it, that you still love me like I need you to!! Let me do something different, be something different, love you more maybe, something - I'll do anything, just don't go....help me - I don't understand.....

Sound familiar? I knew that it would..... That's the child in you - trying to resolve the old war. That's where she stopped growing.....and you....the big girl.....has to gain entrance into her fortress, a step at a time - teaching her the truth, pulling up the lies by the roots and slowly untangling the webwork that has wrapped around every part of your life. If you do it quickly and without really knowing and understanding what you are doing - then it will cause an artery to bleed and it won't work. This is delicate surgery and you go at your own speed and with great care.

This point in your life is probably the most important pivot point of all. You've survived the dragons - but seemingly little mouse.....is quite the roaring deadly beast hiding in your closet and you can't approach this with anything that you've used in the past. This wounded child......requires much sympathy, empathy and careful steps......she's alone and she needs to be reconnected permanently with you. You need each other. And she will grow leaps and bounds, if - she feels safe and feels like you understand and hasn't sentenced her to prison because - it was all her fault.....

It wasn't.

August 29, 2001
2:51 pm
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CatEyes
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Sally-Anne, believe me it is hard to let someone go, but you just have to for your own sake. Like I said earlier, I am going through the same exact thing. I can only tell you what I'm doing myself right now to get through it. You have to get mad at the way he is treating you, not mad to the point of revenge, but take care of you just as you would a friend. You wouldn't like it if a friend or one of your family members was treated this way, so why is it okay for someone to treat you this way? Well, it is not. Be your own friend. Take care of you--don't worry about him. Do what makes you happy because he is not making you happy. You have to set out boundaries and guidelines as to what behavior is acceptable and how you want to be treated, not just by this guy but by anyone, and stick to it--don't ever compromise. You have to decide what you want from a relationship. Is this what you want? Do you want to chase after someone who apparently doesn't care about you? Don't you want someone who wants you? Or just be by yourself and take care of you first. This guy and no one else can make you feel better--only you can do that for yourself. Try to keep yourself busy, so you don't have the time to think about him. Find something that interests you. Go back to college and take classes, join a gym, work overtime, read books, spend time with family and friends--do something, anything, for you. It is hard, believe me, but he is not the person for you because if he was, you wouldn't be in this discussion room and you wouldn't be going through this. Love is not supposed to hurt like this. I am reading books on Codependency, and it sounds as if they might help you too. There aren't that many out there, but the ones that Melody Beattie puts out are good. I hope what I said helps. Everyone has been at this point at one time or another--sometimes even more than once. You are not alone. Just reading your story has helped me put things into perspective because I don't like the way this guy is treating you, and in turn, my head and heart have somehow come together which makes it easier for me to move on. You have to learn to weed people out of your life that do this to you. I have had to learn that over the years, and believe me it hurts sometimes to have to do it, but you have to in order to protect yourself. Just like if someone were to try to hurt you physically, you fight back--do the same when someone tries to hurt you emotionally--FIGHT BACK and DON'T TAKE IT! If this guy calls you, make excuses not to talk to him. Say your busy or something and stick to it even if it hurts like hell--just don't let him know it hurts. Pretend you don't care even if you cry your eyes out the minute you hang up the phone. In the meantime, start working on you and fulfill your life. Eventually, in time, you'll look back and wonder why you ever gave this guy the time of day. Just think to yourself--you're too good for him and you deserve better. Life is too short to let anyone mistreat you or me.

August 30, 2001
5:27 pm
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sally-anne
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Cateyes, Ladeska - thankyou. Cateyes, it sounds like you have been through the same battle that I am going through. I hope it does get easier. It doesn't feel that way at the moment.

August 30, 2001
8:05 pm
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Molly
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sally-anne
When you do the things that cateyes, and ladeska have suggested, it magically changes, you have to trust this process.

August 31, 2001
11:10 am
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CatEyes
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It just takes time. It is true that, "Time heals all wounds." You just have to create distance between you and this guy and detach yourself from the situation and move forward not matter how hard it is.

September 3, 2001
4:06 pm
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sally-anne
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CatEyes, you are right about distance. This week, he said he wanted to meet me, then he said he couldn't - no reasons. I changed all things round to fit him in, he won't bend a finger. I have this deep suspicion he is seeing other women. I see him having all the fun, while I look on. I am visualising being angry with him, but I just feel let down, hurt & betrayed. The hard part is accepting that I can't make him value me more.

September 4, 2001
3:23 pm
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Ladeska
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You know....in my situation growing up....my father was a role model for - who I would have as a husband someday..that's the way it is for us. At any rate, he was a real womanizer and he did it in front of my mother. I got my female identification from her - as we all do - like it or not. So, she was betrayed - felt like she wasn't "good enough" for him, etc. and guess what? I felt the same thing - vicariously it went through her - to me as her daughter. So both connections happened and the pattern got laid for my life. And I went through a good deal of my life - role playing this one out - wondering why all the time - am I doing this!!! It's nuts! Actually - it's quite normal - given what was lived out in front of me. And given - who these people were to me and what they represented in my life then and later. Insult to injury happened when my father raped me...then I really had some issues to deal with. But, it just added to the pot of - what can I do to fix this? How can I do something that will make Daddy change....? This....is precisely what keeps alot of women hanging on with abusive men and they don't have a clue - what they are really doing. The minute you realize it - is the minute you can start moving out of - this cycle. If you can name it, identify it - you can have power over it.

So, just asking the question - do you see any of this in your own life?

September 4, 2001
5:42 pm
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CatEyes
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Sally-Anne, I'm glad that you realize that you are not the only one who goes through this dilemma. It does hurt when someone you like doesn't like you back or plays with your feelings, but there is really nothing you can do to stop the hurt but move on and make yourself feel better. I know it is hard to see now, but you'll be lucky if he is seeing other women because he is not the one for you. He is selfish in his actions. He makes plans with you, but if something else or someone else better comes along, he breaks his plans with you. There are a lot of people out there that are like this. You have to weed them out of your life. Don't let anyone treat you as second best or a backup plan. Don't let anyone mistreat you period. Only let people in your life that care about you. Try not to spend your time worrying about what he is doing and concentrate on your life. Don't bend your life to fit his schedule. It is okay if you slip up and please forgive yourself if you do, but please try not to give him the time of day. By letting him continue to string you along, he is damaging your self-esteem and your self-worth. Don't let him do this to you. You have to break the cycle. Like I said earlier, only time will heal this hurt you are feeling. Believe me, there is a light at the end. Just keep moving forward. Start having some fun of your own.

September 4, 2001
8:38 pm
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bummy
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i don't know. I feel the same way.

September 5, 2001
11:18 am
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strentghcourageandwisdom
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Ladies,
This is so interesting. I am now thinking of our daughters.
If you have girls, listen to Ladeska, think of the messages you are sending. It amazes me, that I got the exact opposite message, from my mother. My mother was the black sheep of her very large family. She had four husbands
why , because if they treated her badly in any way, she packed her Sh** and left.
But get the reverse picture here, we (the four children) learned that we had to do without a lot, because my Mom
was always starting over. ( Her first husband hit her once, she left, the second, alcoholic, she left, the third (my dad) irresponsible, gambling, spendaholic,he's out, the fourth
a womanizer, he's out.) Her sisters ( my aunts) all had husband of the same caliber and worst, but they all stayed with their husbands. But what did I learn, that my cousins had a lot more "STUFF" than we did. All of them lived in houses, we were always in apartments, they had family trips, and went to restaurants.We got to go to the beach sometime, when my mother wasn't working, tired from working, and when the car wasn't acting up. My mother was a nurse so , we were never destitute, but everything had to be budgeted, I knew not to ask for a new bathing suit, and a hula hoop. It was always one or the other.
So Ladeska, get this, I can never say I have been abused, or mistreated by men, because I just have always , stood up for myself. But now I wonder if my inner child is staying in a marriage that I am not happy in becuase I don't want my children to feel those feelings of being deprived . It is amazing how real my memories of not going to see the Jackson 5 (we couldn't afford that and my Girl Scout dues)
when my other cousins went.
Weird huh?

September 5, 2001
12:49 pm
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Ladeska
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strengthcourageandwisdom...you know sweetheart...I understand exactly what you are saying. And, the deal is - there is pain on both sides of the coin here. Your mom at least - did leave these situations and you have to give her alot of credit for having the fortitude to do that. She couldn't follow through very well after that, but chances are very good that life could have been severely worse if she had stayed with any one of these men long term.

And, I have certainly seen the product of women who have bought into the material security blanket, the things that she can give her children in that regard and the way she can "appear" to family, friends, community because she appears to be - whatever...

Lots and lots of people do that one. They settle, compromise and become the very people who allow abuse to go on with their own children and themselves and yet won't do anything about it because it might cost them their house, their prestige, their false ego.

So, yes, I hear you on what you missed out on - but at the same time - be very thankful that - at least she walked away from some very real danger. She may have kept being drawn to the fire and not knowing why but at least - she pulled out of it at some point.

Your inner child does need to acknowledge this in yourself though because - it was painful for you...and alot of your childhood was lost to - this perpetual spinning wheel... Just try and give her credit for running with the ball as far as she was able.

And "you" - have turned out to be quite the savvy lady - so someone, somewhere had a positive effect on you...(smile) It's okay to acknowledge the hurts - just also realize - what could have been if she had stayed. Quite the price someone would have had to pay for a few material moments in life...

Money can't buy or replace.... Character, true grit, inner fortitude, values, deep appreciation for quality or internal peace that comes from really knowing yourself. Instant gratification and wanting to dance to the tune of the herd - postpones and inhibits all of the above..... It's all about balance and perspective... And it depends on what we will sacrifice in order to get what we "think they need the most".

You know the answers to your own questions....(smile) Maybe you need to really look at yourself in the mirror and truly "see" the character that you have and value it's pricelessness..."that" my dear - isn't purchased anywhere... Trinkets come and go - but this one thing - propels us through some of the darkest storms in life. Be very sure - your children are equipped with that - before they are equipped with the most rad video game or the most "in" clothes..

September 6, 2001
4:23 pm
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Ladeska - You're thread on Aug 29 was so right on. I'm in the middle of that very delicate surgery as we speak. I know in the end it will all worth it but some days you just want to crawl right back into the "emotional cocoon" that keeps you from losing it. I've been working through all of this for about 2 years now and what you said was absolutely exactly what this feels like. In response to Sally-Anne: This game that you are playing is scary to be in but even scarier to leave. As long as you hold on to just that "chance" that he might be interested you don't have to hurt. Being the first one to walk away - no matter how long you played cat and mouse - is infinately safer than staying to find out how it "could" end. The game is all about control and right now you don't have it. Be honest with yourself about what you would actually do if he really did care and want to be with you. Personally I think there are enough wounded people out there without adding to the body count for, as my BF loves to say, "the ego of it all" I wish you the best of luck....

September 6, 2001
5:06 pm
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Ladeska
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1dvsgirl...Hi sweetie....I'm so proud of you - for sticking it out, for seeing the big picture. The thing is - we have so many pluses that we don't even acknowledge and see and utilize. Alot has been carved out in us because of our pain...true...but lazer beams have been formed and depths in our person - in our understanding in our critical thinking abilities - in our ability sniff things out in people - has also been sharpened. These skills just have to be refined even more and trained to behave themselves. (smile)

Like I say alot when working with abuse victims - it probably seems like you are paranoid alot of times because you tend to see things that other people don't see. And that's true to a large extent. We grew up around a very nasty evil all the time and what was said - wasn't what was meant and mindgames played on and on 24/7. So, we're adept at all that. We know these personalities and how they operate...

The problem is - before we get some healing under our belt - we are actually drawn to these people instead of being repelled by them. Usually it is a man like this - that we are drawn to, but since we are involved with this person - we may be able to sniff others like them - out very well and identify them. And yet - be blind to this one person...

That's because we are role playing with this one person. We "select" them because they are like - what initially wounded us and that person in our life back then - was close in to us - someone who was supposed to love us, someone we trusted, and desperately needed to have them love and protect us.

So, when we finally understand some truths - deeply and pull out the lies we've believed with a child's mind - then we can begin to really use these positives that we most definitely possess to our benefit and to help mankind in general.

We don't need to compulsively "fix" it. What they did - can't be fixed. It's done and they are the ones - who did it, not us. And yet - the canvas lays in front of us - with all the paints and brushes. We can pick them up and completely blow away - whatever destructive force "thought" would or could break our spirit. I defy that kind of dark energy. It's my way of "paybacks". (smile) And as many of you that can join ranks with me and truly see the awesome creation that you are - battle scars and all - the better. We can be real, vulnerable, a warrior princess and a total female... The only thing that keeps us back from that is believing a handful of lies that came from some very, very sick people who are little more than scavengers in this life because they have no real life force of their own. The operative phrase here for anyone standing on the edge is - "No More"....I'm taking my life back!

Did anyone see Anne Heche's interview with Barbara Walter's last night?

September 7, 2001
9:39 am
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sexy miss irealnd
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i know exacltly how ya feel.i was madly in love with a lad i liked when i was 17 (im 19 now) and any little thing he done would send butterflys to my stomach.he was lovely but i felt he was always playing around with me.he'd like me one day and feck off the next.males are like this.they are so annoying when it comes to deacency and honeast and truthfully. just go with the flow and take each day as it comes.p's im still in love with him!!

September 7, 2001
9:57 am
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I didn't see the interview but I have seen clips of all of her interviews this past week and with out knowing everything about what she has said I get from the clips that she was/is sick... that she had a devestating child hood and that she is rising above it and moving on with her life... I for one am proud of her for what I have heard she is doing... I am glad that she is able to push herself away from the table and stand up and say I am done and don't care for desert thank you....my husband rolls his eyes anytime she comes on and makes fun of her saying that she just wants attention... I tell him that it is not attention she is trying to get it is awareness that she is trying to get out.....

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