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Why can't I break free from him?
January 22, 2008
1:07 am
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southgoingzax
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thanks for being here, horsefly. I am downloading a guided meditation, so I will listen to that and then try to do some of the work I should have done today.

January 22, 2008
1:07 am
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sdesigns
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"Anyway, here's the deal: I get X number of days of silence. This could be anywhere from two days to three weeks, depending on how badly he thinks I fucked up. Then I'll get a phone call, where he will pretend everything is fine. He may bring up that we should talk, but then never assign a date or time. He'll ask to see me, only I will not be invited to his home, he will meet me for drinks somewhere. Over drinks he will tell me exactly what I did wrong and make himself out to be the victim. If I press him, he will offer just enough of an apology to say that he said one. The "dating" will go on for a couple of weeks, until he decides he no longer has to "banish" me from his house. And then we start all over again, with him being extra jovial and me being extra careful."

Zax, just reading that made my stomach cramp up. That dance is one that just isn't going to make you happy in the long run, I think. But it has become normal and therefore comfortable- you know what he's going to do, how long it will take, what your reaction will be- walking on eggshells til he does it again. And he will, and the dance continues.

Maybe this is a wake up call to examine what you really want.

(icepicks in the eye orbitals? ewwwww)

sd

January 22, 2008
1:17 am
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southgoingzax
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sd,

the dance, well, after two months, maybe a month, it all goes away, like it never happened...SO I don't walk on eggshells until the next blow up. That's what screws me up so much. If I was deeply unhappy all the time with him and never felt I could be myself and relax, then I just wouldn't keep doing it. But in a relatively short while it all goes back to fine, and I don't have to be careful and I FORGET. Which is how I ended up posting here in a panic all over again. I forgot the rules of the game.

What I want....I wish I could answer that, but it always comes back to this.

January 22, 2008
1:20 am
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southgoingzax
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ice-picks, yeah. They showed it on tv, the guy doing an actual "operation". He'd just bang them in there with a wooden mallet.

Small victory - I deleted all his emails and erased his addresses from my account. I didn't block him, but at least I made a gesture.

January 22, 2008
1:58 am
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"Did you know that the trans-orbital lobotomy was performed with ice-picks through the orbits of the eyes? Fun fun fun."

Oh, Zax, forgive me -- I laughed out loud when I read that. I know it is the dramatic foil to how horrible you are feeling.

You know, I think in a few months when you have moved on, if you ever read back over this thread your rhetorical questions will jump out at you and you'll have answers. And I hope you'll feel compassion for the suffering you were going through now.

In this thread you've called yourself a lot of bad names and put yourself down, and it hurts me to read it. But I understand it's part of the process you're working through. It's just coming up 11 p.m. Pacific time... I wonder if you are doing the meditation or are still there?

January 22, 2008
9:51 am
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southgoingzax
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kroika,

no, I missed you. It's 7:40 am mountain time. Waking up hurts so much. Everything is fine when I am asleep.

Have I called myself a lot of bad names? If I have, it is because I should know better, should have known better, did know better, but did it anyway. Not talking about questioning P on his behavior, I mean deciding to be with P in the first place, I mean deciding to stay with him, each time, and I mean the fact that even now (EVEN NOW) I just want him to call, I want to go back to where we were. I feel like an idiot, but more than that, I feel like...a stubborn, blind idiot who is (I know) just going to go right back to the same old, same old if given the chance.

I don't feel I can change, and I don't even think I really want to. And that's why I feel horrible. Because I am not stupid, but i am doing this stupid thing, and right now I am crying over this stupid guy and feeling horrible - for what?

I wanted this to work so badly. I had such high secret hopes. Now that reality has crashed down, I am devastated. Again.

I need to get up, I need to leave here to go to work. i hopefully wont have time to post today. Not sure what I will do about tonight.

January 22, 2008
10:00 am
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southgoingzax
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"in a few months when you have moved on"

if only I would. If only I could. If only I wanted to. I want this relationship - and I can't not want it, even though I know I shouldn't.

I really have to go, I'll never get on the road in time.

January 22, 2008
11:11 am
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StronginHim77
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((((((((((ZAX))))))))))))))

-- Ma

January 22, 2008
1:48 pm
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doubleloss
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hi zax. I'm sure you're driving around now. good for you to delete all his emails and his address.

the agony of what you are going through i totally understand, and i think many of the women here do.

give yourself a break from it all. type and type and drive so you're away from the phone. P and xbf are just the same. He dumped me because I had the audacity of calling him on his oogling/flirting, how dare did I do that? to the king? now when I read your posts I think I was heading to a kind of relaionship like yours.

The scary part is that I was head over-hills that guy, so I would have probably put up with the madness, so I understand.

On the topic of you convincing yourself that you "don't want a true, close relationship", I think that is just a way for you to protect yourself. You've mentioned lately that you had all these secret hopes... and that again they've been crushed so y0ou are devastated...

while i was married I convinced myself that "I didn't want children". I was SO convinced, but now I know that I had to convince myself of that in order to stay. No way we could have kids if we didn't have sex...right?? It's amazing how powerful the mind is, and how we can fool ourselves, how we are capable of deniyng our feelings, wants and needs. It's scary, and it's sad and the worst part is the wasted time!!! Now I'm 40, single, w/no prospects and I know I would really like to have a kid. I might still do it on my own, but I have a ton of stuff to line up before I take such a step.

So my point is....how much more time do you want to waste? how much more do you want to deny yourself? how old do you want to be before you are finally honest with yourself, so honest that it will give you the strentgth and courage to send P to the labotomy lab for good???

think about it. I wish I could do the labotomy on him myself, ;-).

will be back later.
XO double

January 23, 2008
11:09 am
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southgoingzax
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hi double, ma, and everyone who stopped in.

I didn't have time to post yesterday after I went to work - my boss and his wife are so nice, and I just started the job, so I couldn't go in there bawling or acting all depressed, so I faked it, and it was hard, but thank god R is so pleasant and kind and funny...I felt better after being there, I really did. I realized (once again, these aren't new revelations, but they seem new every time I remember them) that it just wasn't that big a deal and that it's not my responsibility to be perfect and keep P happy all the time. And that, there's nothing I can do about P's behavior, so why am I letting it get to me?

I ended up going to class, although I was late because of traffic - I drive 70 miles back from work, then take the dog out, feed her, grab my bag and drive the 30 miles to class - and it was tough to walk in that door and see him, but I was really okay, I just stayed away from him and talked to my friend B, and had a good time. P and I even had to partner up at one point, but I worked with him just fine - I am often amazed at my ability to compartmentalize my brain when I need to. The only thing awkward was leaving, as we usually stay late together and leave together - but I did it, and I felt better about everything afterwards. One of my biggest concerns was about seeing him at class all the time and having to work with him, or having to give up my training and my friends because I couldn't stand to see him. I don't know that this proves otherwise, but at least I was able to go and work and not think about it too much.

Today I feel better. I am going places, i have a great future with this job and a lot of potential - I am going to a conference committee meeting today, get to meet all the bigwigs in preservation in my area. With R as my backer, I might be able to finally become the person (with a career) I always thought I could be.

Focus OFF P, onto ME.

January 23, 2008
2:01 pm
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doubleloss
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great attitude, focus on YOU, that's all you can really do.
I'm very happy to hear that your boss is great, have fun w/the bigwigs today.
doub

January 23, 2008
7:50 pm
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StronginHim77
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APPLAUDING.

And Beaming At Ya.

- Ma

January 23, 2008
10:49 pm
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southgoingzax
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Thanks, you guys. This whole panicky reaction - this is really what I can work on, this is something I need to stop doing. I may not be ready to leave the relationship, but I need to stop letting myself get carried away with fear and loneliness. And each time P pulls a stunt like this, I recover faster, so at least that's something.

The meeting was OK, I just took a lot of notes, they are very disorganized, it seems, but really, they are planning a conference that is 2 1/2 years away. So I guess they don't really feel to concerned about it all. Plus I got a free lunch.

January 25, 2008
12:51 am
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doubleloss
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Hi Zax. How are u doing? how is it going?

January 25, 2008
11:35 am
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StronginHim77
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Zax -

I found this on another site and thought bits & pieces of it might prove helpful.

- Ma

"There is a book called "He's Scared, She's Scared." It is about commitmentphobia in men and women, and the authors Steven Carter and Julia Sokol make a strong case that hardcore "commitmentphobia" is a form of Nsm. In other words, the same traits are operating in NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and in commitmentphobia.

So in one particular section it talks about women who have a hard time getting over bad relationships. It describes this as an example of women who have a fear of iintimacy in the first place, holding on to their pain to keep intimacy at bay; in other words, for women with mild passive commitmentphobic tendencies. It basically boils everything down to fear of intimacy and fear of commitment. Apparently men and women can be passively and actively fighting commitment, like flipping a coin, switching from oone mode to the other. This book is very helpful in examining the tendency to pick inappropriate men to commit to (which is a form of mild commitmentphobia) and to keep trying to keep dead relationships alive."

January 26, 2008
12:02 am
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southgoingzax
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Thanks you guys. Ma, I'll try to check that book out. Today was an awesome day at work, my boss told me that I was doing a great job and I was a big help, and he really meant it! Today we played with $42,000 worth of videoscope equipment - the tiny cameras at the end of a flexible tube - so we can see into holes drilled into wood to see if it's rotten or not - it was WAY cool.

P did call, Wednesday morning, same old pattern, he didn't apologize, said he didn't want to fight...I did my same old pattern, told him he said some pretty mean things about me and he said, "well, you have a right to be upset about that." OK. So that's where we are. I'm writing this down because in all honesty, I don't even know what I am doing anymore....IF I think about it all, I feel totally discombobulated and unsettled and not really angry but dissatisfied with myself - why am I putting up with this? Why do I continue this, what is wrong with me that I can't get over this and want something healthier? - actually, even those questions don't quite seem to hit it on the head....I just....I don't know. I KNOW who he is but yet I'm still unwilling to try for anything more. Maybe deep down I am really lonely.

Anyway, trying to mull this stuff over makes me uncomfortable and agitated...so I am avoiding it, as per usual.

I have some work I need to get to, still - I KNOW, ten pm on a Friday and I still have work to do and I don't care because I LIKE it, I like my boss, I like my job - this is probably the best thing that ever happened to me.

January 26, 2008
1:46 am
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WOW, South you sound GREAT!!! Keep up the good work!!! ;0)

Celtic

January 26, 2008
6:02 pm
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doubleloss
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Hi Zax, So glad to hear that your job is going so well! good for you, i can see you beaming. P, well, we know P is P. Good that you are focusing in what makes you happy and gives you feelings of being valued. Hugs

January 28, 2008
11:51 pm
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fixnme
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Zax,
Reading this thread felt like I was reading about my own twisted relationship (or ex... whatever). I can't tell you how many times I have also waited and expected for that call or text, feeling like I messed up again by not playing by HIS rules...or expressed my unhappiness to his displeasure. I have finally put my foot down though. Told him what MY needs are, and that he can either compromise and try to fulfill my needs as well as his own, or walk. I couldn't take it anymore. I felt like an obsessive compulsive person just waiting to see what mood he would be in that day, and see if there would be any rule changes, co-dependant on him for my happiness.

Although it completely SUCKS now that he has told me he is done because of my new "rules" , and I stll am checking my phone like a moron, I am starting to feel RELIEVED that I am not tied to this back a forth of crazy emotions right now. I am going to try to stay strong, not call him, not accept his call (if he should call), and move on with my life.

It sounds like you are somewhat co-dependent on him and lonely. I know those feelings, but am determined to overcome it somehow. I want more. I deserve better, and SO DO YOU!

January 29, 2008
5:00 am
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Becoming Stronger
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Zax, and Fix I know how exactly you feel I have been there and done that with my x idiot..I broke up with mine about 5 months ago, and it's been hard. I had an on, and off again dysfunctional relationship with him. I would always go back with him, yet we would still have the same problems..but this time was different, I really thought about it, and I said to myself hey I am just not happy and he is NEVER going to change. I have had some challenges, like when I called him to wish him a happy thanksgiving, which was a mistake, and what made things worse were what he did when I did call..I called the day after thanksgiving, and he answered the phone and he denied it was him!! I was like how childish, and just plain stupid of him to act that way, and then I could have kicked myself for ever calling,I was in a pleasant peaceful mood and being the kind, big hearted person I am I called..I told him I wanted to stay friends when I broke up with him, but he could not take it, he was all mad when it happend, and just by this happening I realized he does not even deserve my friendship, and he never deserved me in any way.
It can be very difficult I know, but as the days go by it gets much easier, and by having my cell turned off has made it much easier, not by my choice but it happend for the best.
We are good women who do not deserve to be treated this way, we deserve BETTER and I mean BETTER! I thought I could not break free of him, but I know I can, and I have been and I will find someone who will treat me right..as I know I can, I know YOU can and will, and it sounds like your doing well at it, each day gets better...what makes me know it's working is how Peaceful I am within myself, and how good I am feeling about myself. It may hurt deeply, but we have survived and moving on is the greatest thing we have done to make our lives a good, positive one.

BS =)

January 29, 2008
12:34 pm
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southgoingzax
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hi fix and BS,

nice to meet you, I haven't seen you guys post before. You both sound like very strong women and I admire that. I have no idea why I have gotten so hooked on this guy, he isn't anything special, really, but I seem to have convinced myself that he is. I don't think I ever would have stayed in this relationship if I hadn't somehow been convinced, somewhere along the way, that there was something wrong with me, that I was overly emotional, unreasonable, immature, or something....somehow, all my guilt about not feeling like a "good enough" person has coalesced around this man - and even being aware of it doesn't seem to help me. And the worst part is, I am SO tired of feeling like there is something wrong with me, that I am flawed and/or messed up, codependent, or whatever, that I am in total denial. I back out of all the discussions about that possibility, because all I want to do is shake my head and say, "no, I am FINE. There is nothing wrong with me, I am great."

So I can't see that I can really add much to the discussion right now, at least on that topic. But I am very glad that you two seem to have been able to move on and that gives me hope for me.

zax

January 29, 2008
9:01 pm
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fixnme
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But that is where you are wrong, Zax. I am new to this site, and I found it searching the internet for answers as to how to make me feel better or to occupy my mind so I would not be thinking about him! and felt that I could learn a lot from the people here, and hope that I also have something to offer in return. Life is short, and one cannot have to many "real" friends. I got hooked on my ex because I finally felt whole, like I had found the one person I didn't even truly believe existed--my soulmate. And the love and understanding he showed me at first...
I am still going through it... I gave my friend my cell tonight so I would not be tempted... and I found information last night on going to a CODA meeting (Co Dependants Annonymous). I did not date for the longest time because I did not feel "worthy", or that there was something wrong with me, and then I met my ex. I allowed myself to completely open up to him just for him to start to play these games with me. and I stuck around for a while, hoping things would change or get better or to enjoy the occasional times when he would be "available" to me 100%. I also seemed to jump through hoops to try to keep him happy with me. I just got sick of it. This incredibly lonely feeling that I am now stuck with is better than being controlled by someone else! It is not that I am incredibly strong. I just want something better. Why should I walk on eggshells?

Has anyone ever gone to a CODA meeting? I never have, and although it looks like it would be very helpful to me, I am rather nervous.

fixnme

January 30, 2008
1:49 am
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southgoingzax
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hi fix,

No, I'm not wrong. You stood up for yourself, you drew the line and it sounds like you are sticking to it. That is AWESOME. That is HUGE.

About this site: I think it can be very helpful in many ways...to come here if you have the urge to call, someone can talk you through it. Sometimes, though, I think it can keep you stuck....if you come here and only post about the ex or something similar. Sometimes I feel like I haven't gotten anywhere at all because I am still with this guy and I feel guilty for disappointing people here - is that crazy? But I know that even though I still haven't broken up with him (or even want to, really) I have really done a lot of changing and I like myself a whole lot more as a result. I know I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm clearly just not ready. As long as I keep moving forward with other things, I think I'll do okay.

How long were you with your ex? How long did you not date before you started dating him? Wnd what "triggered" you feeling not worthy, if you know?

Me, well, people told me a was a bitch, cold, distant, dark...even in my own family. Even as a kid, I never felt that I fit in, I never felt normal...I WAS terribly lonely through most of high school - I turned to boyfriends to keep me feeling like I had friends. I finally met some people I could hang out with and really get along with my senior year in high school, and then of course we all went our separate ways, and I was back to being alone. I never had a close-knit, *reliable* group of friends to support me. So my whole life often depended on who I was dating.

If you have close friends who can help you through this, you are really lucky. I'm sure you can get over this guy and move on to something better.

zax

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