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Where Did U Meet Your Partner From Hell?
August 4, 2007
10:34 am
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wasabi
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D*
When I meet him on our first date, there was this intence attraction.
I even said to him out loud you are dangerous for me.
I knew then i could not resist him.
There has been some crazy times. I call the poilce on him once.. he was pist! esp at the time he was a paid Fireman!(he is retired now)
Fireman & Poilce are the worst.... They are highly respected & held up on a peatistal like GODS
women are obsessed with them too!
They protect & cover each others ass!
I left once years ago & came back !
I made it very clear...if he every try's to hurt me or the kids or cheats on me I'm gone forever!!!!!
He still has tantrumes... But he will just go off with his mouth or take off or break stuff!
very rarely now .... Now he is famous for the silent treatment!
That man can shut down for days!!!!!
I guess I've put up with so much for so long & he is mellowing out in his old age! He know's he needs me in many was....I'm not one to walk away from all that I've work so hard for they are so many levels that keep me her.... Kids, the buis. the property. I love him but I do not always like him! I made a commentment to God & myself & to my husband! I guess sometimes i thinks it's easyer to stay....Not to mention
his pention & SS , health ins.... food my transpo..... basic esn. of my exisstent! I'm 43 I have not had a real job since we where married!
I've worked my but off to help him build our buis... which as of last year I legaly own 50% of! But other then our savings I have NO retirement, no 410k, very little SS
So if I ever left him & esp.. devorced him I would loose everything!Not to mention some leagal & fin. shit that He is done that I must fix because being married to him & the buisness by law I'm in deep doo doo too! If I left him I would have to go bankruped & start over with NOTHING!
I'm just not that tuff!
Nor do I have any where to go!
I have no family to turn too, I would be totaly on my own!
That scares the hell out of me!
So I stay & deal & try to fix his mess so we don't get slammed by the wonderful Uncle SAM !

I didn't meet him in Hell
But sometimes it's hell on earth!
I've been doing this so long it's all I know now!

August 4, 2007
11:19 am
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Matteo
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marypoppins ~ I strongly advise you not to listen to everything what your therapists say. When I met my ex-husband "from hell", sure I had low self-esteem having a narcissistic mother and a father who died (abandoned me) before I turned 15, if not years earlier. When I met him, I thought that I met someone who is very much like me and more. My ex-husband turned to be an alcoholic, manipulator, liar, emotional and physical abuser and a rapist, absolutely irresponsible, blaming everyone for his actions, careless and utterly selfish and I wasn't ever any of those things. He was also very good looking, athletic, very charming, and appeared to be knowledgeable at the young age when we met; also caring, protective, emotionally available, responsible and trustworthy, well educated, ambitious and very sweet. This is what brought me close to him, not his dark side which emerged gradually to overshadow and take over everything else. Despite of those appearances and despite that I was very much in love with him - I started having doubts about him quite early. I didn't marry him because I wanted to, I married him because I was practically forced by him and strongly encouraged by my mother. If I had my way I would leave him instead. I still remember how much I wanted to back off before the wedding and the ceremony. I was repeating over and over like a mantra that I don't want to marry him, but nobody cared. If you ask me - maybe he is not from hell, but he surely belongs there. He is the worst person I've ever met in my life. I never, before I met him, during our relationship, or anytime after, was anywhere near to what he represents. I find the blanket statement made by your therapist quite offensive. My picker was in bad shape because of my childhood, but I never was a monster like he is.

August 4, 2007
1:01 pm
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fantas
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Matteo,

I have to say that every one of my exs represented an aspect of myself I was trying to heal. I was abused and emotionally neglected as a child and I sought abusive and neglectful people partners and friends alike. It took me a while to see that I did indeed attract these people into my life.

I'd watch my younger sister pick these great, thoughtful, kind, and generous men while I continously picked loosers. Most seemed great on the outside but after a while they turned on me. I believe the saying, "our reality is our thoughts actualized" is very true for me.

I constantly reproduced by inner beliefs in my life. I realize that I am still attracted to the destructive types but I no longer engage in the dance. I would never get into a very serious relationship with anyone I haven't known as a friend for about a year. I have to see even enagage in all aspects of live with others as well as myself. I am also ready to leave any relationship/friendship at the first sense of neglect or abuse because I know just how crazy that can get for me.

August 4, 2007
6:35 pm
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_anonymous
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Wasabi- Where I come from I believe that after you are married for 10 years or more you are entitled to 1/2 of your husbands salary, you will be a benificiary of his social security should he dies, retire or become disabled. Talk to an attorney first before you will know for sure about your financial status if you were to divorce. I think you give this man far more credit than he deserves. I think you know you have potential but are so afraid to use it. Sometimes you have to decide do you want all the BS or to be happy. You have the attitude of a warrior.

August 4, 2007
6:38 pm
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_anonymous
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Matteo- sounds like you felt very powerless. They way you are raised is a very good indicator of what kind of people we will surround ourself with and what role they will play in our lives. That man sounded horrible.

August 4, 2007
6:40 pm
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_anonymous
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fantas- sounds like you have mastered a lot of self control. Good virtue.

August 4, 2007
7:17 pm
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fantas
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Destiny, Pain is a great motivator for change :). I got tired or feeling pain and nor knowing how I got there in the first place.

August 4, 2007
10:51 pm
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sdesigns
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Well, I've had a couple of them but in hindsight have to say I should have known it wasn't going to be good for me- but still I went full steam ahead!

First devil was about 20 years ago. We belonged to a singles sailing club, and 8 of us chartered a boat in the Caribbean for a week. He was cute, funny, well off, had a sailboat, drove a corvette, all the women were after him. We ended up "hooking up" even though he already had a girlfriend at home (that he didn't want to come on the trip) and he was expecting another woman in the club to meet us in St. Thomas at the end of the trip. See any red flags? When the other gal showed up- and sat out on the balcony in a black lace teddy! I got a little pissed and made a scene. We had "a talk" and he tells me he wants to see me as well as the others. I say maybe and left it at that. Which really meant I would do anything I possibly could to be with him.

He ended up breaking up with the gf, and only saw me for 1 1/2 years- til I found him one night "in the act" with yet another woman from the sailing club. That was it for me- all done. And guess what- he was a big drinker- a full blown alcoholic.

So fast forward 15 years. I didn't date anyone, wasn't remotely interested in any of that. But did have an affair that lasted 19 years- definitely a friends with benfits situation only.

One day I am out at the pool and one of my neighbors decides to get friendly, we go out, and immediately start seeing each other every day (and night). He didn't drink, was a recovering alcoholic, and I was happy about that.

What I didn't know- I was SOOOOO naive- was that he had an addictive personality and was addicted to computers, AA meetings and....was a sex addict. What a ride he took me on. After several break ups, I quit cold turkey. Saw him with MANY dif women, could hear them having sex, talking in the shower, etc. PURE HELL. I lost 60 pounds, had full blown depression. Can't believe that was 5 years ago.

Thank God I found aac about 3 years ago and learned why in the world I would let men like that into my life.

BUT- has that stopped me from making more boo boos? NO! Last year dated a womanizing drunk for 2 months, and then dated another emotionally unavailable kook with a hidden life for about 8 months.

Sometimes I think there is no hope for me! I really don't think I am ever going to meet anyone normal and have a decent relationship. I'm with you, Ma. I think I am done.

SD

August 4, 2007
11:15 pm
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Matteo
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fantas ~ the statement marypoppins made was "we attract people who are about as healthy as we are". You are talking about "an aspect". I can agree to that (an aspect). If we dig long and deep enough we will find that everyone has something, nobody is perfect, everyone has some issues, bigger or smaller and nobody has a perfect family. People are not perfect. What the “therapists” are talking about is a different story: I would say my ex's behaviour was very unhealthy to say at least, and I just cannot relate to it. He has 4 sisters and all of them are loving and caring, very responsible people. They wouldn't hurt anyone, no matter what. They experienced the same poverty during their childhood and had the same dysfunctional parents he did, where the mother didn’t have her own voice and opinion and echoed the father who was an alpha and omega. He chose to become who he is, nobody else did it to him and I have a problem with someone telling me that I chose him because I was just like him, "just as unhealthy" (meaning what? I deserved it??)

There are many women who have husbands, more or less caring, who raise families with them and consider them good men, and then it turns out those men are rapists/serial killers/ax murders. Does it mean those women are married to them because they are as sick or “emotionally unhealthy” as those rapists/serial killers/ax murders? Give me a break, please.

Destinistar ~ no, quite contrary; my upbringing didn’t indicate in any way what role this person will play in my life. I didn’t “surround myself” (neither surrendered). In fact, against all odds and expectations, I run away from him. That’s the reason why today I am sane/alive/not in prison for sticking a knife in his back in cold blood out of desperation one day. As you’ve said, I am guilty of making a bad choice and not being able to stand up for myself - I had a low self-esteem, but I’ve said that already; but this is where my guilt and responsibility end. However, contrary to the above opinion, this person has nothing in common with me and does not define me in any way, never did and never will. We are separate beings, always were. And I refuse being compared to him.

The pop psychology so many seems to subscribe to so eagerly has its great limitations, please keep that in mind. Some people are not or become not who they appear to be (if in doubt read about charmers abusers); let’s not put their victims/survivors in the same category they are in. When I met him – all my friends and family loved him and were amazed with him, and by the way, I never had “unhealthy”, or abusive friends. My friends were caring, tried and true to me, sincerely wished me well and were truly happy for me. He didn’t charm only me, he managed to charm everyone around me as well. Again, not what the therapists’ books say. After 7 years when we met new people as a couple, they couldn’t believe how on Earth someone like me is married to someone like him. Well, now I know: according to the “therapists” it’s because I am just like him, or at least have the potential. So just watch out everyone: Matteo is coming, perhaps after you! (just kidding!)

Perhaps after all we are talking about different things, what someone considers “hell” would be like a walk in the park when compared to a life with the abuser of that magnitude. However the thread title talks about exs from hell. I know what I am talking about and I know I am not from there.

August 4, 2007
11:21 pm
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startingover
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Hi all

The latest worst heartbreak I met on Match.com, too, and like Strong, I think this is the perfect agenda for lying men our age (40-something) to lie.

"I love kids, and aniomals, too...I am in the pre-nursing program at (local community college)" Wow, what a great guy.

How about the truth, buddy? Most women our age have children, so you may as well say you love them, These women may have something YOU need, and it would be such a shame to miss out on that. How about "I am a daily user of crack and alcohol, I drink until I fall down most every day, sometimes I enjoy a little meth or heroin, too...I don't work because my mother takes care of me, I live free in a house she owns, and I even have her debit card for expenses! I am 42 (really 45), but hey I may as well start with a lie because that is all I know". "I want to be a rock star, isn't that a normal dream for a 45 year-old man? I will use you up and discard you, because someone better will always come along. I hope you are desperately lonely, that will make it easy for me"

Unless you are very strong and can see the "red flags" stay away from the users on the dating sites.

SO

August 5, 2007
2:05 am
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_anonymous
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Fantas the fact you felt pain was a good sign

August 5, 2007
2:08 am
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_anonymous
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sdesigns- Just when I thought it was safe to go outside. I read your story. That yaht club guy was really working the crowd.

August 5, 2007
2:18 am
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_anonymous
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Matteo- One thing is for sure it would be nice if people quit blaming victims. It is never a persons fault why someon has lied, cheated, stolen from, abused, raped, molested them etc.. No one should be held responsible for another persons actions. They should never be justified. No one can control who a sociopath will target.

August 5, 2007
2:25 am
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_anonymous
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starting over- I have to wonder about middle age people who still dont know what they want to be when they grow up. This guy sounded stagnent. Obviously he wasnt as pure as he thought he was. Many of those types live in a fantasy world. The pre-nursing would have been a deal breaker for me. Isnt that something someone does the first year out of High school like when they are 18? Maybe he meant his kid was in the pre-nursing program (LOL). The fact a man is on a dating site is all the red flags I need to see. There was a time scum like that would take their two bucks and go to the wrong end of town and pay for a good time. But now they can troll the internet and get it for free.

August 5, 2007
3:45 am
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startingover
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Destiny - you're so right...a "normal", non-codependent person would have questioned the mid-life bac-to-school for a primary career thing, but these guys really do have all the answers, in advance really. He had been raising children for 18 years, his wife had two when they met, then they had one, and she never had to work, he had wanted her not to have to ...oh yes, what a guy. Truth was, they all lived off his wealthy parents, nobody had to work because they are all sponges.

The victim thing? I think now that I did feel that I had been victimized, and oh yes I had, but hey, it was predictable and a stronger less lonely person would have seen it coming. I should never have given him the time of day, he was a liar from the start. I believe what I want so desperately to believe, and these manipulators have all the answers.

SO

August 5, 2007
11:32 am
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_anonymous
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startingover- What I would do whenever I met a guy no matter where I found him I would let him make up his own profile and give the preamble that went a long with it. They just need to do that for some reason. Then before I would even consider meeting him I would spend a lot of time on the phone making them think I really cared about listenining to every word they said. I noticed that after they started to feel comfortable they would begin revealing alot more info about their true character. To make sure they told me the truth I never passed judgement. I would just simply respond with WOW, You are the most interesting person that I have ever met in my life I would just love to hear more. Now these egocentric types would just eat this up. I would also note how they never where interested in hearing anything about me outside of when, where, and how soon I would meet up with them.

Then I would always ask them the million dollar question. What do you have to bring to the table? If it was basically there face and there ass, bagage from the past and flowery words, that told me all I needed to know. I would also ask them what they would do If I got sick and couldnt work, if I needed a car, If I couldnt make my house payment, etc. Well at that point I thought the phone went dead. Not a word. These men that would go on and on about what they think, feel and know just couldnt answer that question. If you are wondering if someone is a narcissitic or a sociopath just ask them for something. Could be simple like $40 bucks or to go out and buy you a nice outfit to where. If a man cannot come up with that chump change with a glad heart than I am sorry he is not in a postion to be in a relationship. I was married to a man who I noticed didnt give me a damn thing. So I called and asked him for $40.00 to pay the babysitter with (made sure it was for a good cause) The babysitter that took care of his own baby he didnt say no he said "FU_ _ NO!

August 5, 2007
11:51 pm
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startingover
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Well Destiny, you were right to do the phone interview thing...I am going to leave dating alone for a while, and doubt that I would ever do the online scene again, I seem to be too gullible. Oh, I am getting smarter, and I do want someone who can give back in return. But, I will need to find another forum, whatever that may be, and I would advise anyone else with codependent traits to avoid the online dating services, too. We are easily fooled.

SO

August 5, 2007
11:59 pm
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_anonymous
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starting- When one is alone anything sometimes sounds better than nothing. I find that getting involved in things that one is interested in can be a good way to meet people. I enjoy my horse and force myself to go out everyday to the ranch to see her. Last night a woman and her husband came with a male friend my age that struck up a conversation with me. So much better in person. I looked like hell, had my sweats on and a T-shirt no make up and smelled like a horse. So I have to give credit to the man for showing some interest in me while I looked my worse. I met a single woman new in town that gave me her number and we got along to so that was nice, maybe I could have someone to go out and meet people with.

August 6, 2007
12:42 am
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fantas
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Matteo,
Not to lengthen the discussion but I can only speak for myself. In my relationship and friendship experience, I have tended to mirror the abuse and neglect I suffered as a child. I believed that I couldn't receive and unconditional love, therefore, I chose partners who made me work the little love they gave me. I believed that drama, pain, and love go together and my relationships were dramatic, painful, and in my sick definition, loving as well. I had low self-esteem, self-hate, and I chose people who were unavailable for me. This is what I mean in my explanations. I am not referring to the random freak accidents but patterns of behavior.

I don't think there is a blanket statement about people who find themselves married to socio/psychopaths ranging in extremeties from the various forms of addicts to killers, rapists, and the like, but I think there is a certain level of denial and a lack of self-awareness for most not all people in these sorts of relationships. Often times people will say that they had a hunch something was wrong but ignored it. Or they saw red flags but didn't investigate further, or they say that the person looked too normal and functional so they felt guilty for having such bad thoughts about them. Does this mean they are socio/psychopaths themselves? ofcourse not! Does it mean they may be emotionally unhealthy to some extent? perhaps, only they know.

Unlike you who knew to get out of a bad and sbusive situation, I never realized that anything was wrong with the lying, cheating, abusive, behavior etc. until I was ready to commit suicide over the pain of not getting it. The drama was normal to me and in fact I always wondered how people who didn't have drama lived their lives. I always thought that they must be uptight, repressed people who couldn't express themselves or feel their emotions truthfully. Wouldn't you call that sick? I would

As a person who has been sexully molested and raped, I know that I am not a rapist or a molester but these were hardly relationships I entered into by choice.

August 6, 2007
1:35 am
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marypoppins
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Fantas - Yes, this is exactly what Robin Norwood writes about in Women Who Love Too Much. We seek out relationships with dynamics similar to the dynamics in the relationships we grew up with. Not only do we seek out these unhealthy relationships, but we stay in them far too long because they symbolize the relationships with our caregivers in which our needs were unmet. We hang on hoping to "right" those childhood "wrongs". Once we are conscious of this and become healthier, we will no longer be satisfied with unhealthy relationshps. Norwood also writes that codependent people use the problems of others to avoid their own issues. I've never had a problem with therapists saying we seek out people who are about as healthy as we are because I see it as a hopeful statement. If I am stronger and healthier, I will attract more functional people. Also, I don't think labeling myself a victim in a relationship in which I entered into of my own free will is very empowering. Focus on those who have "wronged" me in relationships I chose to participate in does nothing to propel me forward. I am responsible for my own happiness.

Mary

August 6, 2007
10:40 am
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startingover
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Hi all

I am hoping to get to that "stronger and healthier part of (my) life so I can attract more functionsl people".

I haven't read the book so often recommended here, But I believe there is truth to the hope of "righting childhood wrongs". I always craved love, affection, and attention, and still do, and sought it from people who only pretended to give it, or were only able to give it for awhile (addicts).

I enjoy being alone, sometimes I do get loneley but I have a lot of work to do - on ME - and nobody would benefit from a relationship with me now, least of all (and most importantly!) me.

Thanks everyone.

SO

August 6, 2007
10:41 am
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Matteo
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marypoppins ~ you just totally dismissed everything what I wrote, didn't you?

Not everyone is the same, maryppopins.

Not everyone is codependent.

Not everyone who was in an abusive situation was there because they were looking for an abusive kind of "love" they experienced in their childhood. I didn't have a clue that abuse like this exists between family members when I was a child. I learnt about Nazis concentration camps during WWII but that was different right? They hated the prisoners, they were not married to them.

Making a statement like you and your therapists did is just one step away from blaming the victims and survivors of abuse for abuse they experienced because they are "responsible for their own happiness."

Perhaps it is OK to make a statement like this if you are a codependent struggling in an unhappy relationship, where there is a room for improvement and you are the only one who wants to improve, (or actually bend it the way you want it - aren't codependents control freaks?), but it is not OK if you apply it to the victims and survivors of intimate terror. The dynamics in that kind of abusive relationships have NOTHING TO DO WITH CODEPENDENCY, unless you want to label a strategy of survival as codependency, which is just plain wrong.

People and situations they are in are not one-dimensional, and life is not black or white, like many codependents seems to be thinking.

Why don't you use an "I" statement instead of "we" and talk about yourself and your own experience instead of pretending that you have answers to just about everything and for everyone after Norwood while at the same time passing judgment about others?

After participating in this thread I started understanding why the threads are popping up here from time to time about people "addicted to their own trauma and pain" when codependents open their eyes and look at themselves and others and realize that they have a great making and they take sort of a pleasure, no matter how annoying and uncomfortable in something they call drama. I am not talking about drama, I am talking about trauma, and the difference is enormous. Would be nice if "we" were able to differentiate those two things and stop measuring and judging everyone else according to "ourselves", wouldn't it?

Have some imagination, for heaven's sake!

August 6, 2007
3:04 pm
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fantas
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Matteo,
I think you are seeing this issue from a place that doesn't understand the codependent way of being. Given what you have shared, I'd say that Norwood's analogy doesn't apply to you but to us, the women who love too much, we are shaking our heads in a collective amen choir. It makes so much sense to us and we totally relate to it. I don't think that MP is dismissing what you have said, she is simply speaking as one of the people who identifies with Norwood.

Why do you come out so strongly on this issue? Do you feel judged and pidgeon holed? Do you feel like you are being blamed for your exs behaviour and mistreatment? Is it possible that you are resisting the notion that you may have had a moments lapse in judgement when you chose this partner? Just wondering.

August 6, 2007
3:41 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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Matteo -

do you think that if you were a stronger, more confident person, you would not have married this man?

I agree with Mary on some level - as I AM codependent, as are many people on this board....that we often attract unhealthy partners if we are in an unhealthy state of mind ourselves.

Does that mean we are all monsterous abusers? No, I don't think that's what anyone meant. I don't think ANYONE, including the author of the book or the therapist, was trying to say that we attract monsters because we are monsters ourselves.

I think that it means simply - that when we are in an unhealthy state of mind - we do not see the reality of the situation - and often stay too long. If we were healthier and stronger - we would see the warning signs and run.

I also do not think that it puts blame on the victim at all. But simply some responsibility in what their role really is. After all, we CHOOSE our partners - nobody forces us to be in the relationship or stay in it. Those that know they are in a bad relationship, but choose not to get out - are they really victims? Maybe victims of their own bad choices?

Many of us here are codep., and I feel that mary did clarify that when she referenced Robin Norwoods passages and theories. If you aren't codep...then this wouldn't apply to you.

However, back to her orginal statement that started this - I do believe that if we are unhealthy - we will attract unhealthy partners. I do not believe that mildly unhealthy will ONLY attract mildly unhealthy - or that seriously unhealthy will ONLY attract seriously unhealthy. I think being unhealthy simply makes us vulneralbe to making bad choices - which includes picking monsters or partners from hell as mates.

August 6, 2007
3:59 pm
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marypoppins
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Dear All,

I don't accept responsibility for the physical and emotional abuse I suffered as a child at the hands of my parents. I did not have a choice in that relationship, and I was a child. However, as an adult, the relationships I CHOSE to enter into and then CHOSE to remain in, I do accept my part in. I have to. No one forced me to stay. I had a choice. Perhaps I didn't see that I could have left at the time. Maybe I was too weak, too frightened, too unaware of what was happening. I regret those mistakes, and I'm working on forgiving myself and trying to move forward.

MP

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