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What does a healthy relationship look like?
November 4, 2005
11:07 pm
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helpplease
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Now that I'm finally getting over a break up and considering opening up the door to dating again...how do i even start looking for a healthy person? what does that even look like?

November 4, 2005
11:20 pm
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Wow. It's so much easier to say what healthy DOESN"T look like. And still easy to get sucked in.

November 4, 2005
11:25 pm
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22haha
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trust, love, respect, patience, empathy, happiness, commitment, dignity, truth, warmth, romance, wit, - I know this is normal becaause it is all the things my dysfunctional relationship is missing :o) Good luck finding true happiness.

November 4, 2005
11:42 pm
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kkay
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22haha you are funny! should have seen it coming due to your name.

helpplease what makes you healthy? Or how about someone you highly respect? What makes them healthy?

you might decide to look for those same things in someone else?

and - I feel that the relationship is defined by the two people in it. Hopefully its only two, that's a good start.

Consider only squeeking the door open for a peak until you feel you know better what the definition is. Dating before you have a definition of what will suit you, reminds of when I grocery shop when I am hungry. Everything seems like it will fill me.

Years (and years) ago I read books on finding relationships and came up with a list of what I was looking for. I had six that I figured were the most important on my list. Four I remember: Trust, honesty, dependability, pleasantness.

Good luck

November 5, 2005
7:09 am
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helpplease
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well, for the first time in my life i truly mourned my ex instead of jumping into something new right away. i actually don't want to jump into something new right away. but i would like to start dating at some point because i'd like to find a companion to share my life with. but also because i would like to have a family at some point before i'm too old and i can't any longer. but my patterns have not been very good. i've dated people who abandoned me constantly, who weren't committed, who put me down, who needed taking care of, who had anger issues, you name it and i've been more than willing to put myself throught it, to suffer, to take the blame, etc... i'd actually like to find someone who is dependable, honest, who is into me as much as i am into them and who has goals and a life of their own and someone who enriches me. how do you find that? at the supermarket? online? at the bar? church?

November 5, 2005
2:07 pm
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sharonp
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im not to sure what a normal relationship is,but i know if i ever get into another relationship is my DH and i split
here are some red flags i will look out for.

this information of redflags are from a women who are now out of their bad relationships.

RED FLAGS TO LOOK FOR

Jealous of time or resources you give others.

Gets angry if you spend "too much time" with friends, family, or children.

Insists that it is "a bad time" to talk to family on the phone.

Feels that resources are "wasted" if given to children.

Gets angry if you do favors for other people or give them things.
Would rather throw something away than give it to someone else.

Is disinterested in or feels threatened by your personal desires or goals.
Finds your hobbies boring, pointless, unproductive, or a waste of time.

Is uncooperative about attending parties or events that interest you.

Picks a fight or creates a crisis just before an event that is important to you.
States or implies that your interests should not interfere with spending time with them.

Is rude or inconsiderate of others in a self-centered way.

Insists on discussing something with you while you are trying to read or watch television.

Expects you to be the one who answers the door or telephone.
Expects you to drop what you are doing when summoned.
Interrupts others while talking on a consistent basis.

Will not act to accommodate others' convenience or comfort.
won't go outside to smoke
will not turn down TV or radio while others are talking.
Is unconcerned and unapologetic if rude behavior is pointed out.

Does not respect your right to make your own decisions.
Insists that your decision "affects them" and therefore should be a "joint" decision.
Gets angry or hurt if you don't take their advice.
Criticizes or questions the wisdom of decisions that you make without their input.

Considers their own logic or intellect to be superior to all others.
Insists that their way is the "right way".
Claims that their arguments are based on logic or sound evidence and that yours are not.
Places no value on decisions made based on feelings or intuition.
Believes that any opinion you have is invalid, illogical, hysterical, or selfish.
Is completely intolerant of any criticism of their own behavior.
Is confident that their employer and/or employees are all defective somehow.
Considers your friends to be idiots.

Extremely opinionated and critical of others
Racist or sexist.
Dogmatic about behavior in others.
Unwilling to tolerate opinions that differ from their own.
Has double standards for behavior.
Is rude to your family.
Dislikes your family.

Has "trouble" at work.
Is chronically unemployed or changes jobs frequently.
Explains employment set-backs as some sort of victimization.
Believes that their boss treats them poorly.
Believes that their co-workers are working against them.

Disregards laws or social customs that interfere with their own goals or pleasure.
Sees no point in observing holidays or giving gifts.
Is disinterested in following family or religious customs.
Believes that people who work hard for a living are "suckers".
Is scornful of the government or the "system".
Uses illegal drugs.

Is very concerned about their public image.
Treats you better in public than in private.
Gets angry at you if they believe that you have somehow made them look bad to others.
Brags about you or your accomplishments to others, but never compliments you in private.

Attempts to make you jealous or insecure
Threatens to leave you.
Hints or states that they have other lovers waiting on the side.
Compares you to previous lovers.
Admires strangers and compares you to them.
Tells you that no one will ever care about you the way they do.

Is jealous and suspicious.
Accuses you of infidelity.
Insists that friends of the opposite sex are trying to seduce you.
States or implies that you got a job offer or interview because of your appearance.
Doesn't want you to take part in an activity or outing because you might meet someone else there.

Rushes the relationship
Pressures you to move in together.
Pressures you to have sex before you are ready.
Proposes marriage early in the relationship.

Does not respect your privacy
Reads your diary or journal.
Opens your mail.

Manipulates others to achieve their goals.

Uses guilt trips.

Does things that are dishonest or illegal.

Attempts to coerce you into doing things that make you uncomfortable.

Threatens suicide or homicide if you don't cooperate with them.
Lectures you endlessly until you agree.

Is easily angered at others who interfere with their activities.
Engages in "Road Rage".
Reactions are out of proportion to level of inconvenience.

Is intolerant of children or animals.
Will not get up to feed or change the baby.
Is unwilling to have pets or children because of the mess or inconvenience.
Shows preferential treatment between children (especially "natural" vs. "step" children).
Believes that children don't deserve the level of treatment or support as adults.

Insists that THEY are the victim in the relationship.
Accuses you of being selfish, rude, self-centered, uncooperative, etc.
Claims that you are the one undermining the relationship.
Accuses you of not loving them or not caring about them.
Threatens suicide or homicide if you leave them.

Lack of empathy
Inability to put themselves in another's shoes.
Unwilling to provide comfort to others unless "blame" clearly lies elsewhere.
Makes minimal effort to care for others when sick or injured while complaining about the inconvenience.
Cruel to animals.
Considers donations to charity a waste.
Unable to acknowledge or respond to pain in others that is not clearly visible.
Turns up TV when you have a headache
Insists on spicy food when you have an upset stomach
Expects you to help with chores when you are feeling sick.

Tears down your self esteem and erodes your confidence.
Tone of voice unreasonably deriding or scornful for the situation.
Questions your ability to do simple things.
Asks you to make a decision and then rejects your decision. Often asking you to
decide over again.

Accuses you of being overly sensitive to criticism.
Calls you names.
Criticizes you openly.

Interferes with or attempts to control your career.
Pressures you to quit or change your job.
Thinks that your employer interferes with your marriage.
Thinks that your co-workers/employer/employees are defective somehow.
Attempts to resolve conflicts you have at work for you.
Seeks to "help you" with your career, and is upset if you don't cooperate.
Attempts to choose your job or work projects for you.

Punishes you or threatens to punish you for "misbehaving
Strands you somewhere.
Gives you the "silent treatment".
Yells at you..
Lectures you.

Believes that a "discussion" about your relationship is more important that any other obligation or activity.
Makes you late to work or social activities because they want to discuss something.
Picks a fight with you at bedtime and then won't let you go to sleep for hours.

Victim's Behavior( you behavior)

Watch out for these behaviors in yourself. Members of my support group believe that these are warning signs of low self esteem and behaviors that set you up to be abused.

Fear of failure, and extreme insecurity about your own competence
Try hard to conceal or downplay any mistakes you make.
Are afraid to be seen as stupid, lazy, or weak.
Feel that you are "supposed" to be able to handle a situation or task.
Fear that others will think less or you if you quit.
Believe that no excuse is good enough for a mistake you have made.

Willing to overlook other people's flaws or mistakes.
Believe everyone else but you is perfect and has a good reason for making a mistake.
Believe that you can help others "live up to their potential".

Not trusting your own judgment.
Feel as though your opinion is not as "worthy" as someone else's.
Find a "logical" argument to disregard your "inner voice" or gut feeling.
Assume that criticism you receive from others is valid.
Need another person's input before you can make a decision.

Not feeling that you deserve to be treated well.
Are willing to go to great inconvenience and trouble to avoid causing someone else inconvenience.
Don't want to appear "demanding" or to be considered a "trouble maker"
Assume that if someone treats you poorly then you must have done something wrong.
Expect and accept criticism when you have completed a task.

Are unwilling to be disruptive to the relationship.
Avoid discussing issues that you fear will upset your partner.
Are unwilling to break off a bad relationship because you don't want to hurt your partner.
Secretly wish that your partner would die, move away, find someone else, or offer to leave the relationship.

Allow others to make most decisions.
Let someone else make all the decisions with no input or discussion from you.
Allow others to talk you into a decision you don't like.
Make a decision to please others rather than yourself.
Choose a course of action because you don't want to hurt a particular person's feelings.
Find it easier to "go along" with others decision rather than stand your ground.

Behave as though you agree with others, even when you don't.
"Parrot" someone else's opinions or behaviors.
Keep quiet when you disagree with something
Allowing someone to think by your silence that you agree with them even if you don't.
Thinking that the subject is not worth an argument.

Act to "protect" others at your own expense.
Won't break up with a significant other strictly to avoid hurting their feelings.
Avoid saying what you want or need to say because you don't want to hurt someone.
Accept blame that is not yours to protect someone else.

Giving up things that are important to you to please others.
Give up hobbies or activities that aren't shared or approved of.
Give away or sell precious mementos because they "clutter up the place".
Keep photos or mementos in storage rather than display them because your abuser doesn't like them.

Isolate yourself from all people other than your abuser.
Allow friendships with people your abuser dislikes to wither away.
Visit or call family less and less because your abuser dislikes them.
Spend less time with friends, family, or co-workers because it "takes too much time".
Never go anywhere without your abuser.

Conceal your abuser's behavior from others.
Believe that others "wouldn't understand" why a situation or behavior is "justified".

Are embarrassed that you allow yourself to be treated this way.
Have been asked or coerced by your abuser to not tell.
Are afraid of being accused of "making them look bad".

Take responsibility for things that are not your responsibility.
"Help" resolve other people's conflicts by acting as mediator
Apologize for things that OTHER people did.
"Cover" for people who are not handling their own responsibilities.
Accept more than your fair share of blame in a conflict.
Apologize just so that the fight will end, not because you think you did something wrong.
Fix, clean up, or conceal something done by someone else to avoid being accused of having done it.

Attraction to authority figures.
Attracted to the smart, self-confident, powerful people.
Attempt to prove your worth to them.
Are thrilled if they "bother" to notice you.
Assume that their advice is sound.

November 5, 2005
10:38 pm
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helpplease
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hi sharonp, this is very interesting. did you come up with this on your own or did you find it somewhere. it's very good. HP

November 6, 2005
1:40 am
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Lass
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I was always afraid to date anyone wearing a suit, as though they were far better than me. Being around someone like that always left me feeling insecure and less than. I was afraid that if they were both smart and abusive, i wouldn't be able to protect myself.

LL

November 7, 2005
8:00 am
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sharonp
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hi helpplease,

no i got those red flags from the verbal,emotional abuse site.
the website link is

http://www.drirene.com/catbox/.....38;act=idx

copy and paste 🙂

November 7, 2005
11:29 am
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darby
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Wow! My ex is a walking textbook for Red Flags. Thanks for printing that. I feel better--he's the one who screwed up, not me (I'm just screwed up now, but for legitimate reasons).

November 7, 2005
12:01 pm
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artist 2
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That's a long list...

How about forgets an important event in your life?

November 7, 2005
12:59 pm
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iwillsurvive
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How about when you ask him what is wrong (because you know something is) he says he is just tired. Then you go to work the next morning to find an email from him proclaiming that he is unhappy and has realized he hasn't been successful in forcing himself to love you ?!?!?!? That is messed up.

November 7, 2005
1:03 pm
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artist 2
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Wow... sure it is. I wish you luck with that. I have another one:

What about when he's gone for four days, you chat on the phone, and he makes no move to get together or to ask to see you? That, to me, is messed up as well.

November 7, 2005
1:18 pm
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kathygy
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For me a healthy relationship requires two whole people who are equals. To me a healthy man is emotionally mature and secure, he has a high level of self-awareness and takes personal responsibility for his part in any issue.

Together we create a safe environment for open and honest communciation on a continuous basis. There is no yelling, criticism, judging or name calling. We love and respect each other completely and are equally committed to the relationship and to each other.

We treat each other lovingly and kindly. The health and stability of the relationship is more important than any single issue. All issues are talked through until resolved for mutal benefit.

We share goals and values. Our social circle expands. There are no power struggles. We can relax totally and be our selves. We feel completely comfortable with each other. There is a deep emotional intimacy and trust.

We are best friends. We are not threatened by the other's goals, activities or friendships. We support each other in our goals. Each wanting for the other what they want for theirselves. We care deeply about the other's happiness.

November 7, 2005
2:48 pm
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artist 2
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Kathyg, how do you know if the relationship if unstable and in need of help?

How do you separate yourself from the relationship?

November 7, 2005
9:42 pm
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helpplease
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hi, why is it that we attracted to people like this? who don't treat us well, who can't take their part in conflicts, who abandon you when you're ill? why is it that we want validation from people who can't be bothered with us while someone who is willing to treat you great, you want nothing to do with? Kathyg, are you in a relationship that's like what you described? if you are, can you tell me how you met? how you knew what to look for?

November 7, 2005
11:08 pm
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Cooper
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This is a good thread...
I use to think I had that perfect happy "til death do us part" marriage....the romance was wonderful, we loved each other, shared everything, spent as much time together as possible, laughed, planned our lives with each other dreams and desires in mind...I was so happy and thought he was too! Our friends called us "Ken and Barbie", the perfect couple.
Then ONE DAY! everything was different. He started the name calling, put downs, if I called him at work, would speak horrible to me, would not let me visit with friends, family or let me talk on the phone,in the past 5 years two affairs... and it seems we are on a rollercoaster, one day civil, the next very angry with each other.
So even if it starts a wonderful healthy relationship, how do you keep it that way? or was it ever and I was just "too in love". Things don't just happen over night, how do we see this coming? Is it possible to go back to the way things use to be?

November 8, 2005
8:16 am
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helpplease
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cooper, what you describe is what i'm talking about. everything evolves and changes with time. so if something starts great, what guarantee do you have that it will stay that way? and when things start to go south, what do you do? move on? get help from a therapist? i guess there are no guarantees in life but it seems so uncertain to just hope that things won't change and will remain great. one of my friends came from a family who's dad used to beat the crap out of her mom. one day, he broke her jaw and after that, he stopped drinking became born again and now the marriage has done a complete 360 and everything's fine. they seem to be in a happy marriage and have been for the last 15 years. ok, i dont mean to be abrupt but i have to run off to work! i'll write more later.

November 8, 2005
2:36 pm
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bflogrl
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I would love to know the answer to this too. This is what I am struggling with as well. My question is, when is it time for you to leave a wonderful relationship that has gone so bad and unhealthy? What are the boundries? Whenn is enough, enough? And how do you stop feeling quilty after they pursue and try to get you to come back and you struggle with doing so or not doing so. I tend to stay way to long because I don't want to give up to early and be one of those people who leaves when the going gets tough. I don't want to be one of those people abandon's.

November 8, 2005
3:30 pm
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kathygy
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artist,

It is very easy to tell when a relationship is unstable. There is a lack of consistency in the level of committment, there is a lack of inconsistency in the amount of investment each has in the relationship, there is a lack of harmony with frequent fights. There is the rollacoaster feeling of very good times followed by very bad times. Rather than a consistency of good times.

As far as separating myself from the relationship. This means to me being true to myself at all times and being completley honest with my partner in a loving way about everything. I stay tuned into my feelings and needs and express them to my partner. There is no manipulation whatsoever. I do not try to hold on to my partner. I built my own sense of inner security.

Another way is spending time with my best friend or other close girl friends.

bf,

"when is it time for you to leave a wonderful relationship that has gone so bad and unhealthy?"

If it has gone so bad and unhealthy then it is by definition not a wonderful relationship. Whether to stay or not depends on how this man has treated you, whether your needs have been met, on his willingness to work through issues, on his level of committment and of course your desire to be with this man.

If a man is physically abusive to me once is enough. I am gone. If he does not treat me with love and respect in a consistent manner I and refuses to work on changing that I am gone. I don't believe in staying in a destructive relationship for one day. The minute I notice the man has no self awareness I am gone. The minute I notice a man does not have the capacity for emtional intimacy I am gone.

I will not stay in a relationship that is not good for me for one day. I don't believe in enduring the suffering until you can't stand it anymore. Rather I believe in getting out asp.

I can understand feeling guilty but for one thing the man has a part in the relationship ending that he needs to take responsibility for. It could be that he mistreated you or cheated on you. If that's the case then I see nothing to feel guilty about. Also, you are responsible for his feelings and he is a grown man and will recover. Maybe you are doing him a big favor by leaving.

November 8, 2005
3:48 pm
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kathygy
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I meant to say you are NOT responsible for his feelings!

November 8, 2005
10:24 pm
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Cooper
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I understand what you are saying, Kathygy, but in the same respect, I feel trapped, I don't know how to gain the strength to just get up and walk out,leave. I keep hoping that things will turn around like mentioned by "helpplease".
I am on a rollercoaster and hate the lies, cheating, implications he makes that makes me feel guilty and like this would not have happened, if I had done something different. I need to have the confidence that I can walk away and things will be better. I have given myself completely to him for 23 years and now feel it is my turn, but he is not willing to make the sacrifices to work towards us. I know that alone should be my "Sign", but I feel turmoil, uneasy, unsure...I need confidence and I think that is what we are all really need, the confidence when we know it is over to feel good about our decision, so we can turn and walk away with no regrets, but I feel we all have "Loved to Much" and don't want to give up what we once had.
Someone said to me once..."I would rather keep what I have than to be without anyone" I know I don't want that for the next 23 years. But I don't know how to get past these feelings he has given me to even try to make this marriage work.
I realize this may not make any sense...am I the only one that feels like this?
I just feel like I can't explain the agony to want another life yet afraid to walk away from something that at one time was so wonderful with a man I have loved completely and unconditionally.

November 8, 2005
10:34 pm
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helpplease
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here are somethings my ex did. tell me if you think this is healthy or not.

- he never paid back his student loans.
- he has no credit.
- he took off when i was sick and starting a new job. he thought i was being selfish because he had a trip planned that he did not want to delay.
- he put me down when i wanted to have sex or rather he felt it was unfair of me to ask for it because he clearly couldn't have sex. he didn't like to have sex.
- after an argument, he would disappear for days -- not call me back, not contact me. And he would never apologize for disappearing. or for his part in any argument.
- i made dinner for him one night and he didn't bother calling me all day until 8 p.m. to tell me he was still at work and didn't think he'd be able to make it.

does this sound like i should have been trying to salvage this? the worse he treated me, the more i wanted to hold on to it. the more pain i felt, the more i wanted him to show me he was sorry, the more i wanted to hear he loved me, the more i wanted to not feel rejected by him. at one point, two and a half years into the relationship, i stopped counting on him. i never made plans any more or get my hopes up about anything because i knew he would let me down. so, now it's over. he's gone and i still haven't gotten over him. i still want him to call me, to tell me he loves me and that he wants me back. it's never going to happen but why do i want it so badly and from him specifically. i feel like if had someone who did nice things for me, that i'd think he was a loser or just plain boring.

November 8, 2005
10:35 pm
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lollipop3
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Cooper,

I don't have much advice I'm afraid but I just wanted to let you know that I know EXACTLY how you feel. You are not alone.

It is not easy and I believe anyone that thinks it's easy has either never had to live through it or is a robot. I spoke to my therapist about this very issue. I asked her why I was so unable to break free. If it is bad for me, why can't I just walk away and never look back. She told me that she would be more concerned if I did that. She assured me that ending intimiate relationships in which we have invested so much is the most difficult part when trying to break the cycle of codependency. It is normal and it is natural to feel the way you do. The thing that we must remember is that....this too shall pass.

We cannot allow the fear to keep us paralized.

You will do what you need to do, but you can only do it in your own time.

My thoughts are with you.

Love,
Lolli

November 8, 2005
10:56 pm
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helpplease
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cooper, it's really hard to walk away. my mom left my dad after 24 years of marriage. it's been more than 15 years now and whenever i ask her if it was hard to divorce, she says she never looked back. she said she felt a huge weight was off her shoulders and she has never been happier. i believe her. she had put up with so much and she'd had enough. i'm sure she feels lonely but my dad wouldn't have made her feel less lonely. i don't know if this helps any. i struggle with this type of stuff myself, quite a bit, actually.

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