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We're At it Again!!! am in contact with my sex & love addict bf AGAIN!
October 7, 2001
11:26 pm
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suds
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The first thread I made here was about moving on and letting go of my boyfriend so he will become sober and eventually heal. Uggghhh...we're in conbtact again. we'll at least through the phone but it still the same...we both get agitated again. im tired but am such a classic codependent! am so frustrated at myself. Damaged! need your thoughts here. and those who just could not help but continue loving someone and continue having a toxic relationship (toxic in a way that i am an enabler to this addict...and not just an addict but a married man!!! uggghhh.)i can feel that i am already tired but sh***t i still answer his calls and we still talk like lovers!!!we are both hopeless and incorrigible!)

October 7, 2001
11:27 pm
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suds
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Damaged and the rest, you guys out there?

October 8, 2001
11:52 am
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gingerleigh
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Until you make a decision to not be hopeless and incorrigible, you will continue to be so. You know what you need to do in order to avoid these situations. It's really hard, I won't lie to you. If you aren't willing to do that kind of work, then you will need to figure out a way to live with the obsession, the toxicity, the misery that codependent relationships are made up of.

Aren't you worth more than that?

October 8, 2001
12:41 pm
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mari
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I'm in the same situation as you are, Suds. I had such a depressing weekend that I could hardly get out of bed this morning and almost called in sick to work. I don't have any good words of advice for you, but I can say you're not alone. Hang in there. Every time you pick up the phone to call him, dial one of your friends' numbers. You'll feel much better for not giving in and calling him and you'll probably get a pick-me-up from from the friend you called.

October 8, 2001
1:03 pm
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Molly
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He knows what he is doing, he is dangling the carrot, and your biting at it. Your familiar and easy, he knows your buttons, and doesn't have to learn new ones to get what he wants, or needs. Could even be a game with you, can I still do it? Can I get her where I want her, and then work it all over again. Remember the scorpian and the snake, and just remember your gonna get bitten. When your tired of the wounds and his games, you will do something for you. Just remember if this is your dream your not dreaming big enough.

October 9, 2001
6:32 am
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suds
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thanks guys!

whats worse is i cannot just call him up anytime unless i know where he is and he's not around his family or unless he tells me that it's ok to call. most of the time i'm left waiting for his calls. and when it's already getting late and he hasnt called...my stomach just churns with acid. i hate the feeling. as am writing this am waiting for his call cuz he promised. you know, he's not a bad guy and he loves me so much. but he needs to heal and me as well. the problem is that we miss each other so much. and i am actually in a different city, 7 hours away from him.

God knows how much we tried and are trying but...oh well.we have acknowledged our weaknesses and we recognize that we are both icorrigible.
he feels awful for the pain he has caused me. he even said that he is happy everytime he gives me a call but he said, if his calls to me are not making me happy, then he is willing to stop.

we both love each other so much but we just cant b together because he needs to get sober as i am his drug and he cannot turn his back on his reaponsibilities which is his family.
he said he also doesnt want to drag me into a chaotic life if we forced things like really force things so we could be together...you know like leave his wife and family.

October 9, 2001
6:50 am
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suds
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we have talked a million times about our situation and in fact we came to an agreement. no more contact. i continued my contact with my counselors, did my readings on codependency, etc., and started moving on...actually i'm a lot better now compared to the straight 3 months while he was in rehab (which was the most depressing months of my life...3 months of crying non stop). i am going out with my friends, creating new hobbies and yes, logging in to this site and sharing with people my thoughts and hopefully help me heal. but yes, we still talk on the phone. i also dont have the heart to reject his calls.

actually we're okay when we talk until the expectations, jealousy, "lovers talk" come in. he gets agitated with the thought that some guy is getting interested in me and i get so hurt and angry everytime he talks about trips or events with his wife. and every time we "talk" like lovers...he gets short-changed. he wants all of me but am in a different city and we cannot be intimate so, he gets so depressed for missing me and then his addiction strikes! he feels acting out again...not with his wife but with the household help! he has not had a relapse yet with other women except with me. but isn't this such a pathetic situation? yes, it's sad cuz our love for each other is so iron true but we cannot be together. we have done so many times to say goodbye cuz we know that if you love somebody, you would always have his or her best interest at heart. actually, this renewed communication for the past two weeks is my own doing. i called him first when i went home (we lived in the same city but am working in a different city)but we didnt meet when i was there and that was his request cuz he knows he cannot hold off once he sees me. now am trying to divert my mind from the call am waiting and instead logged on to thise site and just ventilate.

October 9, 2001
11:17 am
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gingerleigh
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Suds, he's MARRIED? Get off that train now. Society judges men who cheat on their wives pretty harshly, but double standards abound and single women who fool around with other women's husbands are stigmatized even further.

You actually believe that he hasn't "acted out" with anyone else but you? And you live in different cities? Get over yourself, honey, and quit letting him pull the wool over your eyes. Household help? Puh-lease!

You degrade yourself every time you speak to this man. Again, aren't you worth more than that?

October 9, 2001
5:46 pm
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Molly
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The sweet bitterness of the forbiden fruit. Get over it, and post here, I strongly suggest for your emotional well being, ignore him change your phone number, change your e-mail and get on with life, there is way to much damage potential for you.

October 10, 2001
11:30 am
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mari
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The bottom line here is, he's having his cake and eating it too. Men like that string you along, telling you they really want to be with you, but yet make no move to actually do so. He's married, he has a family and most likely, he's not going to break up his "happy family". He's keeping his arrangement with you because it's convenient for him. He's lying to his wife and children, so don't think he's not lying to you. You have got to stop contact with this guy. You are headed for disaster if you stay with him. However society judges you is secondary to the damage he is doing to you and you are doing to yourself by staying in contact with him. People can only do to you what you allow them to do (WOW, took me a long time to learn that one), so you need to stand up for yourself. You deserve someone who you can call whenever you feel like it. Someone who is actually worth spending time with. You deserve better than just hanging on and hoping he'll call. You have to believe you deserve better or no one else will.

October 10, 2001
11:17 pm
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suds
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Thanks mari, molly and gingerleigh.

Intellectually i know what you mean. i've read them and got them from my counselors but in my heart it's just hard to do it. actually am not planning to let him go as in erase him from my heart cuz he will always be a part of me. we've been through a lot together. but i must let him go as a lover, an intimate partner and a boyfriend. it may seem that i (we) want to do the impossible but God knows i (we) am willing to try. our bond is so strong and we wanna keep it.

we both know already that am not gonna put my life on hold for him. if i meet somebody i know would love me and i can learn to love, my love for him (my addict bf) will not stop this.we have such a wonderful frienship. his wife and kids know that we are keeping in touch. and he made it clear to his wife that i am special to him and that he wants to keep our friendship. and that the wife has no control over it. the wife gets hurt but he just shrugs and proceed on taking care of herself (which she just learned lately..she's a classic codependent herself...even worst than i am!!!)
we have not been intimate and it's been a month since we saw each other cuz as i said, am in a different city). we both are trying our best to keep the special friendship. the problem is some expectations that lovers would have, sometimes arise which should not be the case.i get hurt when he cannot call, things like that.I WANT TO KEEP THE FRIENDSHIP (cuz he's my best friend..really. even without the sex and intimacy, we clique) AND THE CONTACT and just learn to make our relationship stay at that level and nothing more. We were very good friends and collegeaus before we were lovers and his also a family friend. he knows my parents and the whole family. so, you can see why i couldn't just throw everything away.he is very determined to get sober but yeah yeah i know....he wont get it if we keep communicating cuz im his drug!
should we just give each other time? allow a cooling period to happen until such time that no more "lovers" expectations will come up every time we talk and we can face each other without being sexual.tell me if this is possible - from best friends to lovers back to bestfriends?

October 11, 2001
11:54 am
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gingerleigh
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If you want my honest opinion, and I'll bet you won't when you hear what it is... hey, you're a smart gal, I'm sure you already know what I'm gonna say. "Is it possible to go from best friends to lovers back to best friends?" Possible for some people yes. In your situation, not a chance.

How do you sleep at night with what you just wrote? You are keeping in touch with this man despite the fact that you know you are causing another woman pain, a woman who is married to him and is raising a family with him? What kind of a cruel and selfish person are you???

I keep asking you if you are worth more than this relationship. If you are willing to bust up a family like this, you must not be. Sounds really really harsh, and it *is*, but think about it. How DARE you? What gives you the right? And don't throw that "but I'm a codependent victim" crap back in my face.

Codependent or not, you are a human with free will, and you have POWER over your actions and choices. Do you have a sense of right and wrong? I sense that you do, based on what you post here. You *know* that this is wrong. You *know* what you should do to get healthy. Get OVER yourself. Your "love" with this man is not special, sacred, or sanctioned in any way. You are miserable and seeking help. So help yourself. Pull your balls out of your purse and do the right thing for once.

So, all of that said, think it over. So now shit or get off the pot. Best of luck to you.

October 11, 2001
12:18 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hey Suds, in that last post, I put a few formatting things in there to denote when I was giving tough comments and such, but when I actually posted, the brackets I put in cased the lines to not appear. Anyway, I hope that you don't take offense at the post. It's brutal, but it's honest. I'm not attacking you, although it might sound like it. But, as I and many others have said before, it's an opinion, another perspective, and you are entitled to process it as your needs dictate.

It's your life, don't you want to look back on it when you are 80 years old and think "Hey, I did the right thing"?

October 13, 2001
8:01 am
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suds
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thank you ginger.

deciding to stay friends is my way of putting an end to a "cannot be" relationship, a romantic, sexual relationship, and an illicit one. but we will rise above everything and keep the friendship. i understand your pessimism and skepticism but that's okay. i understand you.bcuz u dont know what we actually have.
yes, we hope and wish for the two of us to end up with each other but we know that if it'll come , it'll come. we dont have to force things cuz it will just happen if we let HIM.He said that if we should end up together, he wants it to be perfectly in place...no breaking up of families, no stigma from society, no harsh looks from other judgmental people, etc.
As for your comments about our relationship and our love, you are entitled to your own opinion. I may value your opinion, i may not. Ginger, we (he and i) know what we have. whether it was special or not...it is only us who know it deep inside our hearts. we dont have to ask people to believe us or prove to people that what we have is special. AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHAT WE HAVE, that's what's important for the two of us.there's no need for funfare.
As for my "whining" about my being a codependent...yes...that is a problem.my problem. it is my longing for him and the missing and the deprivation that drive me crazy (the same with him) but it's not bcuz somebody is dangling a carrot or manipulating me or whatever. upon posting my problem here in this website, everybody looks at my ex bf as the typical addict or "typical married man in an affair" who does nothing but take advantage of
a foolish girl.Never did once in my postings here did i put my exbf down. ive seen him go through hell with his program and go through many separations (our separations)---all initiated by him but yes we would break down but we dont want to give up. Especially me, i easily break down cuz unlike him, i dont have a program like an AA and a counselor and a Center to visit every now and then.In one of our "separations", he said that for the first time in his life, he wants to be noble. i made him face his defects, he said. he said that because he respects and loves me so much, he wants to stop the romantic relationship because, as I am his drug, he is afraid in that continuing this, he will act out with other women and he knows that i will get hurt. our decision to keep in touch or stop the romantic relationship has nothing to do with the wife or kids. it is in B's (lets call him B)heart to get better from his affliction. even if his wife is there and i'm not there, if he will not surrender to the Lord his sickness, he will act out with other women and worst! with women he doesnt love!we are stopping because we believe it emanated from our love.
As for breaking up a family, well, i dont blame you for seeing "other women" as nothing but homewreckers...always out to destroy "perfect families" . I never dreamed of being in this situation. I was brought up very well, I am educated and consider myself bright, i never lacked the love from my parents, i was a good student,never had any bad record (criminal or whatever), a good citizen in my community and in my country...but i fell in love. and it's wonderful to know that you have loved and is loved despite all the pain the CIRCUMSTANCES, the SITUATION have brought. and you, ginger, will know if true love has touched you. you will feel it in every fiber of your being.

the stopping is about putting the best interest of the person loved, at heart.

my postings about my frustrations are real. yes i am hopeless (i believe at times)and incorrigible at times but i am also human. but with my imperfections and weaknesses also come the light and the power that love brings to do what is right and what is best. and just walk through the pain.

come to think of it, what i just needed from people who i want to get help from (especially from this website) is for them to show or give me tools...to help me be equipped so that i will survive detachment. and am sure you know, detachment doesnt mean to stop loving and caring for the beloved.just to give time for healing of the other and healing of ones self.

the words of Damaged have lifted me and inspired me. as he said about FEAR- Face Everything And Recover.
I need to recover and B as well.
And the tips on doing nice things for myself, go out and mingle and create hobbies are the tools i am talking about.my other tools are my readings and constant communication from counselors even online. and i even draw strenth from my beloved who is B. we draw strength from each other that together in love we will walk this rough road. Yes, we take out the romance but our bond goes far beyond that, ginger. goes beyond what is superficial, goes beyond what is just a demand of the selfish flesh of man.
As for the wife (which i want to make a point not to talk about her cuz this journey of ours is not about her)one thing i can say---yes she is hurting too, BUT events have shown her also what i meant by "what we have is beyond what is selfish" in this world.

The approaches of the postings here are very normal human reactions to a painful, illicit affair and i understand. And the approaches are applied on "typical" affairs that was perhaps created from the very beginning and sustained and ended by lust (didnt want to use this word :-))and selfish human wants, and need I go on. And never love. But in me and B's case, I'd like to think otherwise.

again, ginger thank you.

October 13, 2001
8:26 am
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suds
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Maybe in my postings i sounded angry but perhaps it was more frustation at myself. I also give "advice" and insights in other threads not in anger but in an inspired motivation to really heal.So ginger, you may like to approach things in a harsh and angry manner. But i dont do that.I believe in sharing wonderful insights and going together in a journey to healing. being in this situation is painful as it is, i dont believe in adding more harshness to it.and i apply this to other people in this site to whom i share my insights to.

but of course you are entitled to your own opinion. and the worth and value of your opinion is measured, and defined by how the other person will take it, interpret it and...well.. how he will put value to it.

All of your opinion, gingerleigh and the rest are well-taken...some of which are inspiring, some are not. some are eye-openers, some are not.some may insist on their opinion, some may impose their value systems, some may think they know it all.
But then again, we are in a journey here. we may come here either to vent our anger, seek help, yell out our frustrations and disappointments, etc, etc, etc...but we are all here to heal.

thanks again. like to hear from you guys.God Bless

October 13, 2001
8:36 am
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suds
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Am sorry this is getting too long already! 🙂

i failed to thank you guys who posted here (not necesssrily saying that all you said are what is also happening to me)but it gave a little push for me to finally decide to bring it up to B that if we should continue our friendship, we have to set expectations...realistic expectations.i told him about this site and what u guys had to say. he was so glad that it actually came from me!

we gave each other some time to think it over ---the expectations of this new level but equally special relationship.

wish me luck. thanks again.

October 13, 2001
11:27 pm
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suds
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about the "from best friends to lovers back to best friends" question of mine, lemme answer it myself- I know it's possible. I just know it.
🙂

October 15, 2001
1:55 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hey suds, again, the taglines that I put in originally did not come out, FYI, if you open a line with a "< " and close it with a ">" it won't show up on these posts. In those tags I stated in BOLD that this is an extremely harsh message, and to take it for what it's worth.

I stand by what I posted. It's my opinion, nothing more, and nothing less. I've lived through mistakes of my own and others, and if what experiences I can relate might help others to make choices that are healthy for themselves, well hey, that's the goal. Some people respond best to a tender approach and others respond best to a more pragmatic and direct approach. (I myself respond to the latter. I'm not a therapist, nor have I ever claimed to be one. I make no claims or promises to post something that doesn't ruffle feathers.)

And for what it's worth, I've BEEN in your position, I've been touched by what I thought was "true love" in that manner. He was married, I wasn't, and I "won". I married him afterwards too. And guess what... he found "true love" again with someone else. It's karma, it comes back to get you again and again. I paid dearly for what I did, and I'm sending out a warning to you. It's your life. I wish that when I was 23 years old someone had looked me in the face and hollered "homewrecker!", had shown me the damage that was being done to those kids because Daddy had checked out, had told me how many nights another woman lay alone in bed crying her eyes out in overwhelming sadness and loneliness because maybe I would have sat up and listened and saved myself (and those innocent kids and a woman who was just trying to be a good wife and mom) a LOT of heartache. Live and learn, and boy did I learn.

I have since been touched by real love with several people, and it's different with every person. But I know the difference between the all consuming lust and real love. The real stuff doesn't ask for people to violate their own boundaries of right and wrong. The real stuff sets others free to find their own paths that fit with their boundaries and personal ethics. I wish that I had known that, or more importantly believed it, because I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the real stuff was out there for me, and I didn't have to compromise to get it. But I had to let go of the excuses first.

So, that's all about me. Am I holier than thou? Ha, far from it. Have I learned a lesson? Oh yes. Am I hoping someone else won't go down that road, that maybe my experience with help convince someone else to build a better life for themselves? You bet.

Suds, good luck. You are strong enough and smart enough to decide what you need in your life to be happy, and then go after it.

Best wishes, GL

October 15, 2001
2:57 pm
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Molly
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Ya know I just read through some of this stuff, and although it is hard to call the shots for someone elses life, there is the been there and done that approach, which I often do, and it comes off harsh, like that poor little 17 year old who will do any thing for her man.
Gingerleigh and I have some what of a connection so if it sounds like I am defending her, and challenging you your clear. When I was in a healthier place than I am now, having helped Ginger see the way through the mess she is trying to help you see your way through, it was based on my experience, and basically helped her out of her very warm very dark becomming more comfortable place.
My man, whom I again realize very similar to what you quote about your bf, struck me down again when I was standing clear of denial. I just had to give him another chance, and where am I today, friggin stuck. He hit me below the belt, with your the counselor don't you believe in recovery, don't you believe in commitment, what about being your word and giving it one last chance, besides, I LOVE YOU. We who have gone to hell and back get real fierce with our words, we realize the consequences of our actions, and get real adament about protecting victims like our selves, the wounds are still fresh, and the recovery is hard, brutally hard, and not all of us recover. You clearly have your mind set on a fantasy, and gosh and golly we have all been there. Despite the wisdom of our elders, we knew what we wanted, and knew whom we thought we could believe, and discovered we were our own worst enemy. We were in denial, hood winked, lied to, and no one to blame but our selves. We had to learn our own lessons, and guess you do too. Its your life, its his life, its his wife's life, his kids well obviously the casualty of the choices the adults make for them regardless of what we now know today, but they are not your problem. I hope the bucket of ice water that hopefully hits you, doesn't cause frost bite. Its the devil your playing with, wether you can see it or not, as you stated, you appreciate all the support you have been given, and are choosing to celebrate your life the way you want. One of the things that isn't always fun is being right, at the cost of others that choose not to heed the warnings. No one can make the decision but you, no one but you and the lives you interact with will pay the price. Its sad, like don't drive drunk, and all the fatalaties out there. So, hear me and hear me well, we want you to avoid the pain we have shared, and know the cost. May you see the light before the tunnel caves in.

October 15, 2001
5:57 pm
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Molly
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After posting, I got in the car, and on the radio was DR. Laura. I have no idea what the call was about, and when I get these messages I figure, they are from the universe for me to hear, and I can't keep them to my self. What I got from her words, which I cannot quote, when you start to question your feelings, that is where your morals come into play. We can't always trust our feelings, or our head and heart are not in the same place, then fall back on morals, or your character.
Just some more letters, words, and things to contemplate.

October 16, 2001
1:59 am
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dominica
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SUDS
I AM GOING TO TRY THIS AGAIN, LAST TIME I TRIED TO POST HERE I WAS TIMED OUT. I AM IN A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION THAT YOU ARE IN. THE MAN I AM/WAS WITH LIVES IN ANOTHER CITY, HE'S MARRIED, HAS CHILDREN, TENDS TO HAVE AN ALCOHOL PROBLEM, GETS JEALOUS OF OTHER MEN (AS IF), SOMETIMES HE CALLS, SOMETIMES HE DOESN'T. AND WHEN I SAY AM/WAS WITH HIM, TODAY WE ARE NOT TOGETHER, LAST WEEK WE WERE. LAST MONTH WE WEREN'T TOGETHER, THE MONTH BEFORE WE WERE. HE AND HIS WIFE HAVE BEEN SEPERATED AND LIVING APART FOR ALMOST A YEAR, AND FROM WHAT I HEAR FROM BOTH HIM AND HER, THEY HAVE BEEN IN THIS SITUATION (SEPERATION/TALK OF DIVORCE) FOR MOST OF THEIR MARRIAGE. LIKE GINGERLEIGH HAD SAID, SOCIETY DOESN'T LOOK TOO KINDLY ON WOMAN WHO ARE IN THIS SITUATION. THEY SEE US AS BEING THE HOMEWRECKERS. THEY NEVER SEE THE HUSBAND OR WIFE BEING AT FAULT. SHE HAS CHEATED ON HIM SEVERAL TIMES, BUT IN HER WORDS, I HAVE RUINED THEIR MARRIAGE. EVEN THOUGH I CAME AFTER THE FACT. AFTER THE DAMAGE HAD BEEN DONE BY BOTH OF THEM. AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I AM NOT PLAYING THE VICTIM HERE. I JUST THINK THAT IF GINGERLEIGH LOOKED BACK ON HER SITUATION, SHE WOULD KNOW THAT EVEN IF SOMEONE HAD YELLED IN HER FACE "HOMEWRECKER" IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE, OR CHANGED THE WAY THAT SHE WAS FEELING FOR THE MAN AT THAT TIME. UNTIL WE DECIDE FOR OURSELVES THAT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING LONELY OR TIRED OF BEING THE OTHER WOMAN CRYING HERSELF TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, NOTHING ANYONE SAYS WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND MOLLY WAS RIGHT. THE BEST THING TO DO IS NOT TO TALK TO HIM AT ALL. I KNOW IT'S HARD, BUT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MOVE ON, I DON'T THINK BEING FRIENDS, AT LEAST RIGHT NOW, WILL BE POSSIBLE. AND DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT YOU'RE A BAD PERSON. YOU MAY HAVE MADE MISTAKES BUT HAVEN'T WE ALL. I THINK EVERYONE HERE IS JUST TRYING TO SAY THAT YOU ARE SELLING YOURSELF SHORT. AND LIFE IS ALREADY SHORT ENOUGH. BELIEVE ME I AM NO EXPERT, AND HAVEN'T GOT A WHOLE LOT OF ROOM TO BE GIVING ADVICE, BUT I THINK TALKING WITH SOMEONE GOING THROUGH THE SAME SITUATION, OR WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS GONE THROUGH IT DOES HELP A GREAT DEAL. I WISH YOU WELL.

October 16, 2001
1:36 pm
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Molly
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Very well said Dominica. That is exactly what I believe Gingerleigh was trying to say. Been there and done it, can't see the forest through the trees, know what I mean? We all have to learn our own lessons at our own pace, timing.

October 16, 2001
2:10 pm
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Ladeska
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September 27, 2010
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My two cents...basically - we have - what we want or else - we'd change it. We can all sit here and say - Hey, watch out for that tree, but "life teaches".... I used to beat my head against a brick wall when I would hear people cry about certain things and yet cling to the very thing that bit them...and I went round and round the merry-go-round with them until....I backed off and realized - they aren't using the same template that I am for this whole scene. They cry out, but they stay where they are. To them - whatever pain is caused to the other woman or the other man - is worth it because if it wasn't - they would end it.

They have found some justification that makes it - okay. So, every time it comes up on the screen - it reallky is okay with them. And sometimes, people settle for this kind of push and pull relationship - because it's a substitute for "real intimacy" which they are deathly afraid of and sabotage at every turn....saying they are searching for love - but in all reality are never truly putting themselves in a position where they can receive it - for the true meaning of love, honor, and integrity.

So, bottomline here is - we get what - we sign up for. It seems like Suds is happy in this situation and I guess the best thing for everyone to do is lift a glass and toast the merry couple and the ones who have stood by them in all this. They are all adults, the injured parties could have walked away, too, but they didn't. So, hey - not sure what all the fuss is about - everyone signed up for this and people allowed it as well. And if this is what they call a "special relationship" - then maybe it is "for them". Not my cup of tea, but not real sure - anyone would like my brand of tea either. When Suds says she is Hopeless in her first comment here - we all need to really read that....she enjoys where she is...and he is probably enjoying what he has as well. They both actually have it going their way. Not sure why the other people hang on, but everyone has their own brand of poison. We do things for reasons.... Society may cry out that - this is wrong - therefore we may feel something like guilt about it and sort of cry a little - but when you get right down to the bottom of everything - we aren't as blind about what we are doing as we might profess. But, that's not socially correct....thus, we struggle to at least look like - we are "trying to" conform to an approved of image.

October 17, 2001
12:26 am
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suds
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September 24, 2010
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thank you so much guys.especially gingerleigh. i understand your concern. and it's very inspiring to know that you guys who have been there don't want another person to go through the same hell.

I just want to say to you guys that am proud to have met survivors like you.

I've had my share of harassment and slaps in the face in the form of harsh words (the word "harsh" is even an understatement) from his family and even from strangers in the past. I never got back at them not becuz i felt i was in an inferior and i-don't-have-the-right position but because everything they said about me is not me.and i will never dignify everything they said by getting back at them.

i know i dont want this kind of life...you know, people/society stigmatizing me, giving me harsh looks and words, and the thought that we are hurting his family, etc. etc....no i don't want that.thus, the decision to stop.

and we know that if it's meant, it's meant. things will just flow for us without us having to force them. that is why we are stopping the relationship. now, i know,i know. you're gonna say:"lovers back to bestfriends? not a chance!" okay. that's your opinion. BUT we are giving it a try.

i'm sad that some of u guys have been in bad relationships, you've been lied to, etc. which made you disillusioned about love.hey, i've never given up on love and i dont think i will ever.
what's sad about ours (B and me) is only the circumstances we are in. as for the two of us...well...i dont want to go on with all the "girl-so-in-love-with-her-man" talk but...the two of us are...well...we're great together.BUT as i said, the cirsumstances wont allow it. so STOP.

Am not giving up on friendship though and the two of us believe that love and friendship go hand in hand. love as you know is never romantic alone.
we will rise above this and this website together with you all of guys will be witnesses to this endeavor of ours.

I have faith in Him.

thanks guys.

October 19, 2001
10:27 am
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strentghcourageandwisdom
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September 30, 2010
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Haven't posted in a long while, I see that the drama of human existence continues, new players , same script.
Suds, when I started reading your postings, I thought, I won't even reply , to this becuase there are several extremely insightful, "experienced people"who have told SUDS, "the deal", and she is not "hearing" them. My next thought, was I will just give her a view from the other side. Here I will just interject , one thought, his "LOVE" for you may be EQUAL to the comittment, love and his feels for his family and the life he has with them. I use the word equal on purpose. One will never be stronger than the other for any long period of time, THERE IS NO WINNING THIS!! His only hope is that you all will continue the way you are .
You are smart enough to know that 'friendship' line is about holding on , so I won't go there
The only one that is dishonest is you, becuase, you are pretending to be OK with this, when really , you want him to CHOOSE YOU!!
Then I read Ladeska (who is always so REAL),and realized that we all are trying to SAVE, somone who doesn't want to be SAVED. I would venture to say that if a train was coming toward you, you would get off the track. But becuase you think this train, is not only going to avoid killing you, and just might take on an enjoyable ride, you have DECIDED to at least keep one foot on the track, and as onlookers we are helpless to stop you. SUDS, the only hope I see is that you
wrote here in the first place, which means your "Wisdom" is
telling you -GET OFF THE TRACK", one day your strentgh and courage will push you off.

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