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We are supposed to be positive but...
May 17, 2000
10:19 pm
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someone
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We are supposed to be positive about ourselves and our lives and I just want to say that sometimes that's not easy. I am an 18 year old female and I've been out with enough people to say that I am going to give up. What I believe in is this: All people have something to offer this world, everyone deserves to be listened to, so why then are people ignored and shunned? Why are some people seen as 'cool' and others not? Why are some cultures embraced while others are ignored?

If your confused at my anger I don't blame you. I want a person who respects others, who won't just use me and who compliments me on occasion. It just seems to me that all men are after one thing and I am yet to hear a good response to this. I am a girl who puts everything she has into relationships, I am caring, loving and I want to learn what the person has to offer - yet I am always getting hurt in return. So here is the question: Why, when I want to give so much and am told by my friends that I am attractive, do I constantly get hurt? I don't understand guys at all.

May 17, 2000
11:34 pm
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Brenda
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sounds like you need to have more of "self" before you can truly have a balanced relationship

May 18, 2000
12:24 am
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Christie
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Ok someone, I feel exactly the same as you about this whole deal. But, I finally found someone who was NOT just after one thing. This positive experience happened WAY after I had been out with a number of people. But ...I kind of learned that everyone gets their turn. This was AFTER I was ready to give up......thinking that if I can't meet someone at college (the most social atmosphere I'll ever be in) then it was hopeless.
I know what you're saying about the stereotypes in high school. I often wondered what makes people perceive some as "cool" and others as "nerds". Nobody I've talked to knows the answer to that one. But my friends always told me I was pretty and I got hurt a lot too. I think it happens to everyone. That's just because some guys are after the girls that give them that one "thing they're looking for"....not necessarily how pretty they are.
A couple of years ago I got dumped by a guy who told me I was beautiful a thousand times ...just because I wouldn't sleep with him. How do you like that?!?!
But...you're only 18 and if you are planning to go on to college, I assure you that you'll meet tons of guys. Like my life......yeah, some will hurt you again....but you have a better chance than in high school to meeting someone you can connect with. Don't give up yet; you're way too young. Someway or another, most of us meet someone nice......like I did.......who tells me he loves my mind and doesn't care if making love is not on the top of my list that night.

I didn't let my past attempts with what I now consider "loser high school boys" ruin my sense of self. I feel good about myself. I didn't for a while but my present boyfriend gave me that boost in confidence that I needed. You WILL meet someone. And one more thing.....we don't understand guys and guys don't understand us. That's a rule of nature and I don't think it's going to change too soon!! šŸ™‚

May 18, 2000
1:11 am
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Dear someone,

I really feel for you.

I totally understand where you are coming from and unfortuanately, your posting has re-activated some negative feelings for me (not your fault, just the state I am in at present).

However, when I feel stronger, I will try to reply more comprehensively. Just thought I'd let you know that you're not alone... not that knowing that will make a big difference to you I guess...

Me

May 18, 2000
9:39 am
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Cici
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I understand where you're coming from, but you have two choices when you're presented with a negative situation. You can let it get to you and affect every other area of your life or you can make it make you stronger.

The way that other people treat you can sometimes be a reflection of how you feel about yourself. The people, especially men, around you who've made you feel bad about yourself are simply exploiting a weakness that they sense in you.

This is the difference between being an active force in your own life and simply being a reactive force. So. Bad things happen to you. Do you take action to remove yourself from the situations in which you feel bad?

I understand where you're coming from. High school is a very difficult place to be. As I've grown up and experienced some heavy trauma, I realized that humans are animals. We categorize and label, we shun those group members perceived as weaker (usually emotionally weaker). Human beings aren't good. We aren't bad. We just are, negative and positive, and to expect anything more is to set yourself up to be disappointed in the world.

Bottom line, if you let what others have done to you control your behavior, then you let them win every time. I realized that after I was raped. I walked around, frightened of every man, large or small, for 2 years. Then, I sat up and realized that I was letting my rapist win every time I closed myself off from experiences. So I said no. I am in control of my life and my actions.

You need to think about you first before you try to think about relaitonships. Besides, younger men are definately not a good sample of the population. And most aren't capable of handling a mature relationship.

May 27, 2000
8:34 am
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Younger men, older men... who can figure them out?

There was a time when I would defend men to the highest degree... if someone said, "all men are bastards," I'd reply, "You can't say that about all men, not all of them are like that!

Now, I'm not so sure! Don't get me wrong, it is one man (10 years OLDER than me) who has crushed my spirit and enthusiasm for life and for all that I do!

He has single handedly managed to break down my ability to trust and to know who or what the truth is.

So, I know he doesn't represent the rest of the male population, but he's done a fantastic job at tarnishing it for you poor males out there!

SORRY! I don't really mean that all men are horrible. I have to believe that there are people, male and female, whose intentions are good, who are honest and who tell the truth rather than paint over the parts of their story that they don't wan't others to know in order to fulfill a need in themselves...

Someone, I can relate to your anger and hurt and inability to see beyond today and the experiences you've had this far.

Cici, I too believe we have choices: to stay in the hurt and let it overtake our lives or to be bigger than the hurt, to let it help make us stronger and to move on (and after your experience, I really admire you for 'taking control') BUT it is surely easier said than done...

I myself cannot at this present moment, no matter how hard I try, move out of my feeling of hurt and resentment. It is seemingly beyond my control... I feel weak and I am scared. I don't have the energy or inclination to put the same amount of trust or honesty into another relationship... The hurt is way, way too deep for that and selfishly, I couldn't bare to feel it over again!

ME

May 27, 2000
8:49 am
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The key (or one of them) IS givng up....

None of us find heppiness "out there" so we need to stop searching for it "out there"

"IT" isn't found in another person, a better job, more money, more things etc.

Happiness is "in here" within ourselves.

If that self wasn't nurtured well early on we doubt it. We can nurture now in adulthood tho'. That means shunning those relationships that aren't positive. If another person doesn't make you feel "true" and "honest" and "good" stay away from them.

If it means not dating or getting out of a relationship then take that step.

Then...nurture yourself. When we are comfortable and happy within then we attract that type of person.

Sure...we might feel lonely. Whgat's wrong with that. Does it make us less?

When we can be happy with ourselves then whole realtionshops can be built. Whole nurturing relationshops.

Sure it is a long tough road to wholeness. Nobody ever said it would be easy but just cuz it isn't easy doesn't mean it can't be an entertaining trip.

May 27, 2000
1:09 pm
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Honest, we really did'nt get to choose to be born of the male gender, but I can assure there are those in the male gender who are soft, loving compassioate, caring, sharing,sensitve, and some even cry.....Yeh, there are some good ones.

May 27, 2000
1:45 pm
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hey i'm loving, soft, compassionate, caring, sharing, senstive. a girl i knew also told me this, but i would always doubt her and tell her that i doubted her. i would say to her that i was sorry but i couldnt beleive her when she said those things to me, because i had this low self-esteem problem (and its the bigeest stinkiest problem). she's such a sweet girl. she said she would keep saying it to me until i beleived it, but i didnt, uptil now. and now i've irritated her. šŸ™ ... due to otehr things too.
i feel so bad about it.
yea i've cried but very rarely. Everytime i feel like crying i hold it back. i know i shouldnt but i cant help it. i dont know whethert to cry or not. i guess everyone says 'do cry, it will make u feel better'. i dont know, i'm confused.

May 27, 2000
8:00 pm
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Tears are an excellent way to cleanse the soul. Sometimes I cry and don't have a clue as to the whys of it, I just do. Afterwards, I feel like my soul is cleansed and can take on more of what is presented to us, daily. Notice I didn't say my spirit is cleansed, just my soul, the very depth of my core. But that explanation is for another thread.

Where were we? Ah yes, men. More importantly, relationships. Some are fleeting, some are longer term, while others are life long. Sometimes you can know at the start of a relationship if it is a fleeting one. No matter what type it is, there is always a lesson to be learned.

To Me: Take a look at what you have learned about your strengths and weaknesses. Catch the lesson presented to you, the one which is to help make you stronger. Yes, the pain hurts when you trust another with your heart. I know, I've done it myself with the same exact results. But, you grow from it. I had a choice, to either shut my heart off from others or, to redirect my heart. I chose to redirect. I gave it to two children and grew from their unconditional love, and the unconditional love I gave them. Two children who had experienced many of the same pains I had. I was twiced blessed. They are still a large part of my life, a continent away, but the continued growth they experience, well, suffice it to say, the Higher Spirit has worked miracles, and they have done the hard work necessary to break the chains that once held them hostage. Nothing like guiding a child out of the darkness another has imposed on them. Its awesome! May you find peace within your heart.

May 27, 2000
8:29 pm
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i dont understand how you can cry without any reason. i've heard that you can be happy without any reason, smile without reason but crying i havent heard. maybe if u can smile without a reasonm u can also cry without reason. but crying is also of different types. Sometimes you can cry witha smile on ur face, like when u see the end of a moving love story. Or u can cry with sadness e.g. u see someone suffering. but still i thnk i dont get the complete idea of crying without reason. what does it mean? after all there must be SOMEthing which made u cry? a movie? an emotional/moving scene? ur past? or ANYthing ? or am i wrong.

May 27, 2000
9:28 pm
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No. You're not wrong. There has to be a reason. I "feel" things deeply. I was flying back from Hawaii, several years ago, after seeing my future mother-in-law. Just after boarding the plane, I began to cry. Didn't know why, just couldn't stop. My fiance was upset by my "crying jag." When I allowed myself to calm down, I felt the passing of his mother. She had bone cancer and had awaken from a coma the day before. The prognosis was that she would have a few more weeks. She didn't. We didn't know for sure until we arrived home and called his father to find out my future mother-in-law had, infact, died the same time as we boarded the plane. Don't ask why this happened, it just did, and continues to. Sometimes I allow myself to calm down to the point of knowing, sometimes I am drained and sleep. Just fall deep asleep after the tears stop, sometimes before they stop. I'm sure there are triggers. But I couldn't tell you for certain what they are. When its a sad movie, or a sad memory, that I understand. But the other, well, somethings have no explanation... I just accept. Oh, we divorced two years after marrying...

May 28, 2000
9:09 am
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Heartfelt,
I apologise for being so anti-male in my last posting, I honestly did not mean to direct my hurt towards all males... I believe that there are some "good ones" out there, I unfortunately was in love with a "not so good" one. Please forgive my generalisations!

Janes,
You say if the person doesn't make you feel true, honest or good then get out of the relationship. Well, he did make me feel good, honest and true and that is one of the reasons I felt such deep love for him and the reason that I never imagined that we would ever be apart. He then took all that away- through lies and MAJOR deception, he was able to make me feel bad, ugly, uncertain and ... so many other negative feelings.

No, there is nothing wrong with being alone, but there IS something wrong with another person using you, lying to you and then abandoning you.
All I wanted (and thought I was getting) in that relationship (and still want in all my relationships with others) is truth! I don't need to know the intricate details of another person's life or who they have seen, what they did etc., just truth about us and the relationship that we have... is that asking too much?

Spirit,
I wish I could redirect the pain I feel, and I guess that is what I am trying to do by going to councelling, but at the moment it is unbearable! I cannot see beyond the hurt and the events of the past and I worry about the future instead of living in the present!
Thank you for your wish for peace.

Guest_Guest,
Why can't we believe the positive things others say about us? Why
do we take the negative things on board so easily but scoff at the 'good stuff'... I guess for me, experiences such as the one I have described help to push me further and further into the trap of believing that I am no good, that I am stupid and worthless... and I know that the more I believe this about myself, the more others may think it and the less able I will be to move on.
In a way it is a 'protection', that is, if I already think negatively about myself then others will not be able to hurt me so badly because nothing they say would be new or different to what I already think/feel)!

Sorry I have gone on for so long, it's just that when I am on a role about this 'stuff' I can't stop myself!

Take care,

Me...

May 28, 2000
9:40 am
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guest-guest.....there is a place within you, that you can go to feel the very essence of who you are. We all have been given this place to go to begin to understand the blocks that do not allow us to find those birth rights that show, without a doubt, that the heart has the gift of being exactly who you are meant to be. I've found that for me it has been a mistake to look outside myself for the needs that I have within. It does take work on our part, healthy support from others just because of the knowing and ultimatly you have the keys to unlock the ball and chain to give you the insight to allow yourself to gain more insight...our way of breaking the taboo against knowing who we are. I can think of nothing more positive than improving our quality of life from within, for truly, there is nothing else, yet this is everything.

May 28, 2000
5:47 pm
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No...that is never to muc h to ask. My heart breaks that yours had to. I over simplified. I am sure there are others signs to watch for...to be sure the other person is real and not a fake.

Wait.... you never have to BELIEVE the bad things someone says about you. Who made him the one who knows..jsut because he was nice at first? when rotten stuff started happening..did you MAKE him do it? Were you "bad" so he had to be negetive? If you were willing to believe all the good stuff he said at first...why when he started being cruel didn't you doubt him instead of yourself? Was he taht perfect?

Trusting someone to start with..when they make you feel good etc. is right. But if another person "changes" after a committment is made...and becomes mean and cruel... why don't we get out? Why do we believe them when they are mean?

If you are certain about your self..who you are and what you want..should you (or anyone) stay when the person has more than "a bad day". We all get short and snippy and grumpy etc. but if it turns abusive... why do we think we have to stay ?

You have being alone in the same sentence with being used etc. They need to be separate.

It is terrible that he was so cruel to you. It is never right in any relationship for one person to treat another badly. It is just as wrong for the person who is being treated badly to not stand up for themselves and say.
"Stop"

We often put so much, to much, of our selfworth on what others say and think of us.

If we are happy with us. compfortable with who we are, happy with ourselves..then when the idiots come around and start bad mouthing us or abusing us...we can turn and walk (run) away. WE DO NOT NEED THEM EVER. And if they fool us..shame on them not on us. And if we let it happen again shame on us.

This was rather rambling cuz my brain is today.

Keep the faith. Heal your heart.

May 28, 2000
10:44 pm
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Janes: You are sooooo correct. STOP!!! Is one of the most empowering words in the English language. Not enough people use it with enough conviction, either to stop the unwanted actions of another or the unwanted behaviors in theirselves. I learned at a young age (12) to say STOP and let the other person know I meant it. Left no room for doubt. Glad I learned that lesson then, wish I learned it sooner, life goes on.

Gotta tell ya, I have put my behind on the line on the job front by putting a stop to abusiveness from others. Seems people in a position of power have a warped idea that since they hold the power, they can say or do whatever they feel to whomever and get away with it. Not in my world. Abuse by any other name is still abuse. Do you think I will ever be able to just be a witness?

May 29, 2000
12:37 am
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yea spirit and heartfelt i read you. some days u just dont feel like typing, doing anything. u get sick of everything, even posting. you just want to go to ur secluded corner and do nothing there. wish u all the best ....

ME, we cant beleive the good things, coz in my case, 95% of the things my mom said about me were bad so i started to beleive them (as everyone says, the children take it on themselves. they dont think they're parents are wrong. They think "i'm bad because my parents say so. i must really be bad"). And i'm having a hard time fighting those messages now. *sigh*.

May 29, 2000
8:11 pm
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Me.

I think that Cici, in particular, has a lot of sound advice to offer.

Biologically we are still animals. Only our 'rationality' can make us 'civilised'.

Men are biologically programmed through evolution to propagate their 'seed' as widely as possible, and women to build stable 'nests' to provide a safe, secure environment to rear their young. Biologically speaking, for the male, the two are incompatiable. However, for a civilised society to work, men have had to curtail this 'natural' desire to 'wander'. Otherwise, Mr Smith and Mr. Jones would be at each other's throats trying to 'propagate' through both Mrs. Jones and Mrs Smith. šŸ™‚ Society would soon break down.

As men 'mature' some grow up and some don't. Some are trustworthy; some are not. This is why it is a very good idea, to become 'just friends' before allowing the powerful 'bonding' act of sex to happen. The 'friendship' courting stage is a good period to assess the 'integrity' of the guy and vice-versa.

Guys get hurt too. That's why they often give 'hurt' back. Some times it is the mother who inadvertently or otherwise hurts the son. Then many women pay the price for mom's mistakes. If you are astute enough, you can spot such a 'damaged' guy before he damages you. But remember, 'damaged' guys, once they get their act together, can make great partners. They say that reformed prostitutes make great and faithful wives as well.

We are all in the soup together. It's a great drama really. I wouldn't be dead for quids( a million dollars - for you Yanks). šŸ™‚

May 30, 2000
6:08 am
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Tez-

Try 10 years of 'friendship' before the 'other stuff' happened. Can you see why I feel so stupid?

I thought I knew him SO well, yet the whole time that we were friends, he invented the person that I eventually came to love so much... so for me, the theory of being 'just friends' first, flew right out the door with this relationship. I am not saying you are incorrect, just that my experience doesn't match!

I know guys get hurt too, we all do! I just cannot justify 'giving hurt back.' It sometimes seems like a good idea, but in practise, I could never do it!

The hurt for me comes with the deceit, lying, abuse etc. inflicted on me by this person, not because of his past! There is the reason I feel stupid... I just didn't realise it was going on until it was way beyond repair!

Well, what to do? It is difficult to know but I am listening to what you all have to say, to what my councellor says and to what my heart tells me so as to try and move through this event in my life and see beyond the hurt to a world that is not all bad!

ME

May 30, 2000
6:23 am
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me....STOP....Don't feel stupid because HE was a lying creep and jerk. You trusted which is a far cry more than he did!!!

Remember that one experience does not mean you had the right person to trust.

BUT IT STILL ISN'T YOUR FAULT and it doesn't make you stupid.

You should be very angry. Esp. with him. it is never right to do this to another person.

It won't make you feel better but at least you were an adult and not a child who woudln't understand the blame lies elsewhere.
And at least you finally saw his true colors before the relationship was permanent and you had kids.

It will take a long time to heal. Just remember somewhere there is a fella going through just what you are.

good luck.

May 30, 2000
7:03 pm
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Me.

Wow! Ten years of just 'friendship', and he never showed his true colours? He must have been a superb actor.

You said, "I know guys get hurt too, we all do! I just cannot justify 'giving hurt back.' It sometimes seems like a good idea, but in practise, I could never do it! "

I totally agree with you. Nor could I, though I tried at the time. It didn't work. It made me feel worse.

I found that it was helpful to me to see why a certain lady, with whom I was involved, behaved as badly as she did, She lied all the time, was cruel to me and enjoyed seeing the 'hurt' in my eyes. She used to deliberately look into my eyes, see the pain and gloat. It was Becky and Tom from Great Expectations all over again. Her husband committed suicide over her torments before I met her. She gloated over his suicide letter and how much he said he loved her in it.

I didn't cop it sweet though. After many push-pull break ups and getting back together, I finally left her. But I eventually had to come to terms with my own pain. Finding out about why I hurt so much and for so long and why she did what she did, certainly helped me over a big emotional crisis in my life. She was not a bad person, just a very emotionally sick one; just as I was. I was eventually able to forgive her and to get on with my life.

I went through the gamut of therapy with several therapists with differing theoretical perspectives. I did a degree, majoring in Psych. I did heaps of reading and lots of helping others through similar crises. I can honestly say that it took about 5 years before I was able to 'smell the roses' again. Now, I value the experience as the greatest gift that I could have received. But I don't want it again thanks. šŸ™‚

I now know the true cause of my addiction and pain. It wasn't the girl; she was little more than a stimulus to trigger the pain that was buried deep inside me long before I met her.

It sounds to me like you are on a similar journey of recovery. Best of luck.

May 30, 2000
9:42 pm
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Me: It is most important that you value yourself for the wonderful spirit that is you. When we give power to someone else as to how we feel, we are giving away more than we realize. Once we do realize what we gave away, it is up to us, ourselves, to retrieve it. Simple. And, not so simple. 10 years is a longtime to be dazzled by someone's brilliance. Tons of energy gone into not seeing the red flags of warning that must have been present to others around you (other people always see it first, ya know). Okay, so ten years have passed, now what? Grow wiser by it, not harder. Sing it with me now: "One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl. Give it one more try before you give up on love." Remember that one? Only this time, love yourself. Know yourself. Be thankful you have yourself, intact, no matter how tattered you feel now. Ten years must have seemed like it flew by, whats a few more spending time with Y O U ? Be good to yourself. May peace be your heart's guide through this time of unsettled thoughts.

May 31, 2000
10:16 am
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Janes
Yes, I trusted and yes, I feel something which I keep naming 'stupid' but I guess I am trying to deny the fact that I am angry... I have grown up NEVER being angry (at least with others) so to call this feeling "anger" is a big step for me... perhaps I can say that I feel 'ripped off' for the moment.

Oh yes, I agree that for children it must be (no, I'll change that 'must be' to 'is') a far greater struggle, but the feelings I had for him (or at least the person I thought he was) have not quite exited my life yet and I guess this is where I continually try to make excuses for his behaviour by blaming myself if not for my
'stupidity', then my 'naivity'(kind of child like thinking, but true nevertheless).

Tez,
What's a word for extra-superb? Because that is the kind of 'actor' as you so fittingly describe him, that he was!
Unbelievable that he could continue the charade for such a long time and pull me (and many others) further and further into believing he was this person that he had invented! In a way, I guess that's kind of sad)!

He was cruel but never in a direct way, if you know what I mean? He never OWNED any of his thoughts, feelings or needs. He just had a kind of manipulative way of putting all these things back onto me, so that if something went 'wrong', then... I wanted it or I said we should do it or he was doing it, not because he wanted to, but because, as my friend, he was happy to... for me!!! And I bought into this way of thinking!

He would ask me several times in one day how it was that I felt for him and reliteraed what I said so that I would then agree and reassure him that these feelings were strong and true! (And at that time they were)!

BUT NEVER ONCE, IN THE WHOLE TEN YEARS OF FRIENDSHIP (AND TWO YEARS OF EVERYTHING ELSE AFTER THAT) DID HE TELL ME THAT HE FELT THE SAME OR THAT HE FELT ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER!

His famous line was, "If this is what it's going to be for you for the rest of your life, then you'll be ok with that wont you, because your love for me is so strong and you can't love anyone else the way you do me!" ('Manipulation' on his part, 'stu...', you know the word I wan't to put there, on my part)!

HOW COULD I FALL FOR THIS KIND OF CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN?
And why after ten years did he change tactics... just friends would have been much easier to deal with than this!

Thankyou for sharing part of your story and your 'recovery' it gives me hope for myself!

Spirit,
I always have and I feel at this stage that I always will, struggled with valuing myself!
I just cannot find many things to like about ME.
It is far easier for me to take the blame for 'wrongs' than to think that someone who I love could do that to me, after all, I feel that I am the one with all the faults!
I know that I have to move out of this way of thinking, but 29 years worth of thinking this way don't help the undoing process... I do try though!

As always, I look forward to the next postings...

Take care-
Me xxx

May 31, 2000
10:18 am
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Hey someone...

How are you doing?

Me

June 1, 2000
6:52 am
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janes
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September 24, 2010
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How could you fall for this kind of crap? It is called codependent behavior and has taken over your life.

read Melody Beattie's book "codependent no more" It is not a cure al or anything but may help you identify behviors that are not working .

You can't change other people just you.. but if you want you can do a super if you want.

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