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WD: Crazymaking
December 23, 2003
1:58 pm
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arwen
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Free,

Would you like me to consult an attorney on your behalf? She can't practice in the state you live in, but she can give me some information. If so, what exactly do you need to know? I'd be happy to help...

Arwen

December 24, 2003
2:28 am
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Arwen, thank you so much for the offer. I'm going to open a case with the DA's office. Meant to yesterday, then today, but things just made it not so. I think I know the ropes with them. I want to know that as far as support goes, my kids are represented not just now, but until they are grown. I don't have the money to make that happen, and this type of request of a friend just can't be fulfilled.

Child Support Services is half-assed. They are overworked, underpaid, and understaffed. Nevertheless, between the two of us, things should work out okay.

This way, when he files for lower child support, he can't involve these stupid and not recognized in our courts, computerized calculations. He can't have me served. He has to serve support services and they notify me (he won't have the pleasure of knowing when I've been served, etc). Numerical mistakes in his favor won't happen like they did in the past when I was too frazzled to think straight- support services calculates support to be allocated, not the judge. Support services provides the computerized printouts and that's what the courts go by. I won't have to worry about bogus claims that I don't understand. In the past, they've absorbed much of my time as I tried to research and understand them on my own. This way, I can talk to a worker and they can tell me it's bogus- it's there to upset you- don't let it. And I won't. I will ask what exactly I need to do and insist upon at least meeting their attorney before the court date.

Will my kids actually be adequately represented? No. Not with my ex monster in the ball game. But they will be better represented with them involved than with me alone. And right now, that's the best I can do.

I want to open the case with them, fill out what I need to fill out, and let it all play out on it's own.

Larosa, I did not understand the last line of your post. "Keep up the good work lol" ???

free

December 24, 2003
12:54 pm
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Worried_Dad
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LaRosa,

Hey, I understand about the cognitive dissonance created by knowing that
1) You have deep feelings for someone,
2) the person you loved was not real, but a persona and
3) the real person actually has nothing but contempt for you.

My friends have noticed that I seem "crazy" that way. I told one friend that I was mourning the loss of a friend, to which she replied "I never saw her as your friend, because friendship is about mutuality and from what I could see you were doing all the giving."

Other friends have let me know that it is incredible to them that I could still have feelings for someone who made a career of lying, cheating stealing, who hit me, was mean to my son, etc. They are right--it is a kind of craziness.

What helps me is that I have removed all pictures of her from my house and try very hard not to think of the "good" times.

December 24, 2003
7:14 pm
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LA Rosa
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free - The last line is just intended to be a little moral booster - if you can keep on the way you are, then I think you'll have really done well indeed.....not that you haven't already. The LOL wasn't supposed to have come out as if it was in the same sentence - and also supposed to be in capital letters. Sorry - free - I must have been getting tired or something.

It just means keep on doing what you've already been doing very well - managing your very trying circumstances ......and also very best wishes from me to you. Hope that clears it up for you - free -.

Love,

LA Rosa

December 25, 2003
5:12 pm
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Thanks very much LaRosa!

merry Christmas to you too!

Lissett I hope you are having a special day!

free

December 26, 2003
1:46 am
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LA Rosa
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We do what we can under the circumstances we are presented with at the time. My day yesterday with my Mum turned out quite well though - as I didn't arrive too late...... although it did concern me to hear her say that she would never have to worry about feeling alone....because of me. Red flag time! Also the person who was giving me the lift over to be with her didn't have to be kept waiting either.......so the day went the better for all that. I didn't really have any time to spare...and just made an attempt to do what I thought best under the circumstances. I did so was much appreciate your warm Christmas greeting - lisset -.
Must admit though.....it was a little hard for me to get into the Christmas spirit - when my son is still missing.....and has been for the past year and a half. Thank you - lisset - and - free - for your warm wishes and I do hope that you both have an enjoyabe holiday season and a happy year ahead in 2004. I have already written of my best wishes for everyones Christmas and the new year, on a different thread mind you - so I am sorry that I have seemrd to be the cause of any offense....it was certainly not intended or even realised until recently.....the fact was though that I had to get off to my mothers as quickly as possible and didn't ave much time to even think about Christmas - I am still trying to work things out with Mum as well. Sorry - lisset - and - free - I hope that I didn't upset your day.

Worried Dad - naturally I am wishing you all the best for the year ahead as well, and would like to thank you for your sound advise and also for helping me to understand much clearer, the nature of - and the reality of the experience that I've been through concerning my year long stay with my intended.....who was/is a narcissist. I've just been doing some homework regarding 'cognitive dissonance' - and it did help to let me put a lot of the pieces together - by giving me a better understanding. I can see the futility in trying to actually trying to believe that I have any realistic chance of having any satisfactory relationship with the one I thought was for real - that had been projected to me.......apart from the conclusion that said I had to get as far away as possible. I have taken the time now to write out some information on the subject for anyone who may benefit from it.....

Cognitive Dissonance.

Description. This is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.

Dissonance increases with:- 1/ The importance of the subject to us. 2/ How strongly the dissonant thoughts conflict. 3/ Our inability to rationalise and explain away the conflict.

Dissonance is often strong when we believe something about ourselves and then do something against that belief. If I believe I am good but do something bad, then the dissonance I feel as a result is the cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful motivator which will often lead us to change one or other of the conflicting belief or action.

If an action has been completed and cannot be undone, then the after-the-fact dissonance compels us to change our beliefs.If beliefs are moved, then the dissonance appears during decision-making, forcing us to take actions we would not have taken before.

Cognitive dissonance appears in virtually all evaluations and decisions, and is the control mechanism by which we experience new differences in the world. When we see other people behave differently to our image of them, when we hold any conflicting thoughts, we experience dissonance. Dissonance increases with the importance of the decision, along with the difficulty of reversing it. Discomfort about making the wrong choice of car - is bigger than when choosing a lamp. Smokers find all kinds of reasons to explain away their unhealthy habit. The alternative is to feel a great deal of dissonance. So what?

Using It. Cognitive dissonance is central to many forms of persuasion to change beliefs, values, attitudes and behaviours. The tension can be injected suddenly or allowed to build up over time. People can be moved in very small jumps - or - one large one.

Defending. When you start feeling uncomfortable, stop and see if you can find the inner conflict. Then notice how that came about. If it was somebody else who put that conflict there, you can decide to not play with them.
*************

Living with someone who believes that you don't have as many rights as they do - is very distressing - particularly for a person who needs to live with a good ammount of peace and harmony. Thank you Worried Dad for awakening me from the - absence makes the heart grow fonder - trap. I know there is no future for me with that man.....it was just the bait that I was seeing when I decided that he was my dream come true. What a sick illusion! It was beyond my grasp - at the time.

Here's hoping that we survivors of any traumatic experience of this nature - here's hoping that we find the strength to let it all go - and start to live our own lives with our own standards being respected - and be loved for who we are.

Love, LA Rosa

December 26, 2003
2:07 pm
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LA Rosa
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Hello lisset - Yes, my nickname does sound a bit Spanish or maybe even French - but that is just the way it eded up. It is an abbreviation of Love Always, hence the LA. I suppose the full stops should have been there as well.....but then it would be thought that I was from Los Angeles. So anyway - seeing as how Rosa is a nickname that I've actually been called - and a name that I do romantisize over - the continental influence (without the full stops) got the nod......and the nick LA Rosa was formed. I thought it was and still is a very appropriate nick that was also a creative- emotional outlet.....and it makes me feel good.
've lived in New Zealand for most of my life - lisset - since I was a child of eight - and having lived for three years in Australia before that; I was born in Scotland. Even though I was only going on for six when I left Scotland with my family - I have always identified myself as being Scottish, although my accent now is somewhere between Scottish - English - Canadian - and Aussie/Kiwi(NZ'er). Geee - I do go on.....at times. I'm wondering - lisset - about why you chose your own nick and place of birth? How is the 'et' supposed to be pronounced?

Love, LA Rosa

December 26, 2003
10:45 pm
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LA Rosa
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Thanks for that - leeseh - as in - leesA.....it sounds quite lovely that way. btw, you just may have guessed my first name. 😉

How I'm ever going to get over this feeling of having lost a part of me - in that relationship with the narcissist I fell head over heals for - is beyond me. I was behaving almost as though I was programmed to be his personal slave - although he would mostly prefer that I just sat and listened to him going on and on and on.....and organising was not permitted either. I was finding at night when I'd get into bed - I'd be making a conscious effort to try and slow down my breathing, so that he would assume that I had already fallen asleep....and the pulse rate might also slow down. So has there been any permanent damage? Not sure about that at all! When I had to be so selfless - which isn't really me - I'm just human. Maybe he could only love his own version of who I was - and so I can see that I'll only be another NS (narcissistic supply) to him......if I ever have anything else to do with him. I'm too tired to be having all that near-constant tension. I didn't sign up for that in the beginning. Even if I really wanted to try again.....I don't think that my brain would eveer follow any instruction to get back together.....there is just nothing that could persuade me that he could really love me......and maybe that's really OK by me......a little mutuality coming into it at long last. One thing I remember saying to him very early on was 'You're really something else!'......meant at that time as an endearing compliment of course. Mmmm?

Love, LA Rosa

December 27, 2003
2:18 am
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LA Rosa
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LOVE and BEING LOVED.

Fear of commitment ("commitmentophobia") and intimacy is one thing. Inability to love and be loved is another.

All narcissists share the first. And surprisingly, all narcissists share the second also!

The word 'love' is understood by the narcissist to mean 'dependence', 'neediness', 'ability to provide narcissistic supply', 'becoming the narcissist's extension and property'.

In these - distorted and sick - senses of the word, all narcissists love to be loved.....

************

December 27, 2003
2:24 am
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Zinnie
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Hi La Rosa,

You wrote:

"The word 'love' is understood by the narcissist to mean 'dependence', 'neediness', 'ability to provide narcissistic supply', 'becoming the narcissist's extension and property'."

So, I wonder if that is why my cousin in all of his correspondence and when he would call always started out with "Oh Angel - where, what would I be/do without you?"

What do you think? Makes me see him in a whole new light.

Zinnie

December 27, 2003
3:29 pm
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LA Rosa
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Hello Zinnie!

Please excuse me Zinnie - but as I'm just off to get ready for my cousins 60th birthday party in a couple of hours time - I'm just letting you know that I'll be back to you as soon as possible....it is a question that will need more time than I have just now.....it just needs some consideration and concentration and my mind on the subject....so I'll be back - like I said - ASAP. Have a nice day Zinnie! BBFN

Hi lisset! Yes - you've got it! Wouldn't you just know it - I just love roses - and I was named after my grandmother.:) Have a nice day! (Maybe this subject would make for a nice new thread? Seriously - lisset, I really think it would.) BBFN

Love, LA Rosa

December 28, 2003
3:06 am
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LA Rosa
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Hi Zinnie - back again!

'LOVE and BEING LOVED' was written because of it's directness.....which just clicked inside me and let me see very clearly how easy it was to get caught up with a narcissist. I didn't have any fear of commitment - or intimacy - as I loved him and believed that it was a mutual feeling. The dream coming true feeling. As soon as he had me in a vulnerable position though.....I was very dependent on him - and needy - and was a great source of narcissistic supply and because he saw me as 'his', no doubt - I would have been the narcissistic extension as well.

It was a very deceptive way to get me to trust him enough to put my life in his safe keeping. There was no mutuality - even when I was believing that it was the most mutual relationship of my life!

---- It's hard to accept! ---

How does what I have written though Zinnie, let you see your cousin in a whole new light? If you've had some doubts about your cousin's motives and sincerity - then I can understand it very well. As you know, I'm only letting you know what I think and I hope that it'll shed a bit more light on it for you.

Not everyone is a narcissist - and I'm sure as well, that you would have a good idea of whether or not your cousins nature is in accordance with the manner of beginning communications with you. If it's all just an honest and/or pleasant expression - or- if you've been hearing the bells ringing or the red flags flying. If you are Zinnie - then why? Do you feel as though you are involved in some manipulative ploy - something that you just can't put your finger on? How do those words that you mentioned actually make you feel? What is the usual outcome - going by past experience - or is there a general kind of feeling that makes you feel obligued in some way? Is it a manipulative strategy that your cousin has found works!
Perhaps this can help - more from Sam Vaknin....(who says that he is a narcissist himself)

BEING NICE to OTHERS.

Narcissists are nice to others if:-

a/ They want something - narcissistic supply, help, support, votes, money.... They prepare the ground, manipulate you, and then come out with the "small favour" they need, or ask you blatantly or surreptitiously for narcissistic suply ("What did you think about my performance....?" ("Do yo think that I really deserve the Nobel Prize?")

b/ They feel threatened and they want to neuter the threat by smothering it with oozing pleasantries.

c/ They have just been infused with an overdose of narcissistic supply and they feel magnanimous and generous and magnifcent and ideal and perfect. To show magnanimity is a way of flaunting one's impeccable angelic credentials. It is an act of grandiosity. The recipient are not relevant, a mere recepticle of the narcissists overflowing self-contented infatuation....with his False Self.

It is transient. Victims tend to "thank God for little graces" (God being the narcissist) This is the Stockholm syndrome: hostages tend to identify with the terrorists rather than with the police. We are grateful to our abusers and tormentors for ceasing their hideous activities and letting us breathe for awhile.

***************

It isn't very nice to suspect people who are so nice.....but sometimes a little bit of suspicion is called for.....and I wish I had been a bit more that way myself. Best wishes Zinnie.....and I hope I've helped in some way.

Love, LA Rosa

P.S. Big hugs for Zinnie and the little red LOUD dog.

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