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WD asks for a Referendum: IS there a "We" here?
April 1, 2006
11:18 am
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Sorry WD... I should not have used your thread to address Kathy. My Bad!!!!

Respectfully,

TC

April 1, 2006
11:23 am
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Worried_Dad
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No prob, TC. This thread is a mongrel-hybrid thread already.

April 1, 2006
11:28 am
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taj64
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Dear Guest, Im not worried. Im no longer angry. Is this codependent? No I do not care. I am however annoyed. I think a few are annoyed. Can someome tell me that it is codependent to be annoyed? I believe it is continuing attacking. I made a statement about it. So who cares about that? Anymore than everyone who writes on here about. Why do you care to say that to me? Why does anyone care? If we let everyone do what they want then the abuse continues. I believe what I asked what the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with codependency. Your judgement is your opinion. So you can say what you want as well.

April 1, 2006
12:13 pm
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Alright Taj,

you do as you wish. I'll help point it out once, I'm not bothered to expend my own energy to help people "see" - thats coD as well, so there, I'm free and contented. I think you hold onto negative energy, being bothered by what other people say to others (not to you) and you use this to distract yourself from focusing on yourself.

For example if someone was being labelled as an abuser- I think it wrong for you to be upset on that and its coD. If you cant see it, its not my job to make you see so I'll retire and dont want to discuss any further. I got my own plate full of my own problems, will focus on that. Have a nice day.

April 1, 2006
12:22 pm
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taj: Also, as long as you're in denial and being defensive like you are, no change can happen in you.

>> Can someome tell me that it is codependent to be annoyed? < < I think it is, if it doesnt directly concern you? If "A" calls "B" a "moron" and I become upset at it - yes I believe its 100% co-dependent if I become annoyed at it. Anyone disagree here? Its a good question. Co-dependents do not feel what they should be feeling - they take on other's people's feeling. Have'nt you read about coD and what it is ?

April 1, 2006
12:42 pm
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Matteo
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guest_gues

WOW! This is completely off topic of this thresd, but then maybe not.
"I think it wrong for you to be upset" Are you actually telling taj64 that her feelings are WRONG?? Excuse me but who is there to say that someones feelings are wrong and that they shouldn't take place? Isn't denying ones own feelings or telling someone else that they shouldn't feel what they feel at the roots of any possible dysfunction?? What is one's reaction, meaning what they will do with their feelings, how they will act, as a result, yes; but not what they should or should not feel! Sorry, but the differerence is of a paramount importance. We all do own our feelings and we do have sacred right to have them. Period.

taj64,
I see your struggle and frustration; talking to each other doesn't unfortunately equals communication. Take care.

April 1, 2006
12:53 pm
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taj64
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I think that is unfair. I think many others are annoyed at this thread and you singled me out. How is it that I am codependent because I voice my concern and why have you specifically asked me to read about CoD and what it is? It is perfectly ok to be annoyed. Im certinaly not in denial over being annoyed. I repeatedly voiced it many times. How is this denial? I guess I won't get my answer from you since you commented that you won't discuss it further and to have a nice day. I find condescendence in this remark as well as your remark specially to me on the other thread. What you are saying that it is not my business here. That is how it comes across. How would you feel if I told you to go read your codependent book and it is not my job for you to figure it out. If anyone sent negative energy around, it is you.

April 1, 2006
1:02 pm
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codyrn
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I'm trying to think of a diversion thread to start.....drawing a blank at this point......but in all honesty think that I'll personally choose to not view this thread hense forth

.....I am here to better myself and in doing so maybe also help others ......not debate....

Some things have been said to me that were sensitive ....and that is okay.... I think all parties have made their point on this thread ...maybe not getting the results that wanted which may include an apology ....but that's similar to life ...for me anyways.....

I hope this thread is benefiting all that continue on it.....but I shall move on

codyrn

April 1, 2006
1:03 pm
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taj

I wont get "triggered" and start fighting. I want to ask a nuetral question which i asked before:

If "A" calls "B" a "moron" and I become upset at it - is it co-dependent of me if I become annoyed at it? This is for you too, Matteo.

For example, a girl I like - if her BF abuses her and I come angry, I think thats wrong of me. Is it not?

I'm not asking this for either of you, I'm asking for myself. I'm not going to use your answer to battle back or something.

Matteo___

I agree, we should not deny feelings but then, what is to be done, if I become upset if A abuses B? Whats the resolution for me? Clearly if I was a healthy person, I wouldnt be upset like this.

Ok so saying it in your way which is the right way - how should I deal with my feelinsg if I come upset when A abuses B ? I agree feelings shouldnt be squashed- thanks for correcting me there.

April 1, 2006
1:06 pm
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taj64
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And others out there might ask why I keep getting on this particular thread is because i have been part of the thread from the beginning. It is natural for me to want to see it resolved. I find that I do indeed care about the people on here, including the main participants and I come here to see that a good outcome happens. It has been over a week and it has not been resolved. I have been involved in this site and I enjoy coming here. I want to see a positive outcome. I want Kathy and WD to overcome the issues. And I want to be able to be able to come and here and feel comfortable to say what is on my mind. So I think you were not being fair to me, Guest_Guest. I have good intentions, and not ill will as you imply.

April 1, 2006
1:12 pm
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sewunique
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No one's feelings are ever wrong unless your feelings are out to hurt someone.

But, I have learned that WHAT WE FEEL is okay. They are OUR own feelings, and we have a right to them; no judgements should be made how we FEEL.

Nicely put, Taj.

Sew

April 1, 2006
1:20 pm
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taj64
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Dear Guest_Guest, I still say you singled me out. You haven't responded on this thread except directly to me. I believe many others on the site are quite annoyed with the thread. I think it is fair to say that one will be annoyed at continuously hearing A abuse B or even get further upset if it continues. I don't feel I am upset. So if I am not upset, then I am healthy right? But you feel I am upset, then I am unhealthy. Which is it? I think many of us here have expressed ourselves over this, does this make everyone else unhealthy? Is this thread healthy?

April 1, 2006
1:51 pm
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Matteo
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guest_guest,

To answer your question :" If "A" calls "B" a "moron" and I become upset at it - is it co-dependent of me if I become annoyed at it?" In my opinion is not. There are many things which are often happily labelled as "codependency", empathy, sensitivity, sense of justice, and child bearing including, among many others.

I cannot provide a recipe for you or even myself what to do with feelings and not fall in codependency trap; my rule (there are always exceptions), is I guess, keeping in check if the relationship, or battle, or cause, or whatever is my engagement, does not benefit others more in every way than it benefits me, and if it is emotionally worthy, not harmful, for me to keep pursuing what I am. But then, that's me, I belive in myself and I don't see myself through the eyes of others; perhaps that's very important as well.

April 1, 2006
1:59 pm
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First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

April 1, 2006
2:10 pm
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lollipop3
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Bravo Kroika!!!!!!!

I don't think it could have been said better.

Love,
Lolli

April 1, 2006
3:57 pm
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taj and matteo, ok, well. See I almost didnt participate in these threads because I knew that in my case it would be destroying my peace and I dont have time anyway to read most other threads if they arent about my own healing (sorry, am being selfish, Gotta be, you know? I have to put myself first now to grow. Yea.).

taj wrote:

>> Is this thread healthy? < < I dont know and I dont care. I'm peaceful in myself and want to keep it that way. I dont wanna worry if a thread is healthy or not well if its, alright - I'll just stay away from it. Bah, my duty was to try once and I did, I will not any more in this case. I wanna keep my own peace. Maybe it was CoD of me to even try once, to try to tell someone they're aggravating themselves over something that doesnt concern them. I was also reading a story in the morning in which a guy is too wise and "know all" and I felt anger at him, even though it didnt concern me - so is that CoD? I dont know. bleah. I'm OK now so its ok. Today is a nice day and will now go to wash my car and with this I retire from this thread. have a nice day.

April 1, 2006
4:16 pm
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bonita1
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If "A" calls "B" a "moron" and I become upset at it - is it co-dependent of me if I become annoyed at it?"

This is a very good question for discussion. Lets all discuss it upstairs and let this thread die a dignified and quick death. I started a thread upstairs as a forum for discussion.

Kindly meant,

~~bonita

April 1, 2006
4:28 pm
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taj64
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What does everyone think of that, that I am aggravating myself because it doesn't concern me. Excuse me, I will not write on anyone's thread because it doesn't concern me. Why do you find it your duty to let me know that this thread is not my concern? Is this of your concern to tell me this.? I think you are not being fair to me and I think you are being hypocritical and also you are condescending as well. So you read a story that a guy is too wise and "Know All and this made you angry even though it didn't concern you and you are asking if that is CoD? Gee I think you appointed yourself expert when you said that it was unhealthy. I also don't think it is fair to single me out as the codependent one who is aggravated because of a thread. I d not understand of why is not my concern when it is an open forum and there are responses from many many people. What right do you have to tell me that it is not my concern. I respond to many threads and try to help, is this not my concern either? How can you be ok with that statement and run of like that. If you want to be at peace, why did you say such an unfair statement? I think you are being selfish to say that and then run. It is cop out.

April 1, 2006
5:13 pm
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hm, bleah. sorry Taj, dont feel like responding. have a good rest of the weekend

April 1, 2006
5:45 pm
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Taj

We love you. You give many people good advice. Sometimes there is no neutral ground when a persom quits caring too much. They can become quite uncaring and self-absorbed. It's always easier to be that way when anonymous. You and I and many others have grown in these discussions, but not particularly on this awful thread.

Let's hope to live in that middle ground of acceptance that's better than the selfish attitude of self-absorption.

Have great weekend everyone

SO

April 1, 2006
5:46 pm
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sewunique
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WD

I would appreciate an answer or respponse to what I asked you a couple days ago.

Respectfully waiting

Sew

April 1, 2006
5:58 pm
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guest_guest,

{hm, bleah. sorry Taj, dont feel like responding. have a good rest of the weekend}

I don't think it's right for you to shut out Taj like this. She's responding to something you wrote her. At the very least, you could tell her you'll get back to her after the weekend if that's what you intend to do. I think you owe her the decency of a reply.

April 1, 2006
6:05 pm
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Anonymous
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guest_guest,

To reply to a previous comment of yours, if a woman's bf abuses her, I have every freaking right to get angry at him. It's not codependent, and even if it was, I don't care. It's not being willing to tolerate even the thought of a man abusing a woman. It's about decency. It's about honor.

Men have such an unfair advantage over women when it comes to abuse. I know personally of one example and it deeply saddens me to see how terrified she is of him, and of how she'll do anything so that he won't beat her. We men have to stick up for any woman we know of who's being abused. We're the best ones to keep ourselves in line.

So don't you go telling me I don't have the right to get angry at the **** of a guy that's abusing this woman I know.

April 1, 2006
7:03 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Sew.

Not here.

I'll meet you. In the "Set me straight" thread.

April 1, 2006
7:14 pm
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Seeker, what can I say about your arguments? Remember your thread about how Women are nice because they take all types of crap from their BF's? You praised women there as if that was the right thing for them to do. I pointed it out clearly too. We disagree so I'll leave it at that.

Its my choice not to respond to anyone. I dont need to explain my choice to you. If you are upset at me not responding to Taj, then its CoD behavior in my opinion.

About your women's BF example, respond in the Lib. Brew, someone started a thread on that. Its a good question to which I dont know the full answer to. It looks like CoD is a fine line and some people think one thing is CoD behavior, while others think its not.

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